Respect, Corruption, Law Enforcement and You

Originally posted by semperfortis
Contrary to what some on here may be in a position to do, I have a full and satisfying life outside of ATS.. (ATS is certainly a part though)

No one has abandoned anything

But I have radio shows to do and a 50 hour week to work and keep me in my toys

Your examples of corruption pale fail in the face of the statistics

Semper

Is that why you disappeared for several hours when you were being asked questions... and then when someone "offends" you, you're suddenly here in 5 minutes? And yet still answer no questions, and keep pushing your agenda.... We had a word for this behavior here on ATS at one point.

I have no problem with the law as long as they mind their own business and stay the hell away from me unless i call. and if i do call it wont be on my behalf ,so here again. as long as you do what you're asked and stay out of my business then we wont have a problem.

run your mouth at me or threaten me because you aren't getting your way and I'll teach the most valuable lesson in your life, and the lesson wont be repeated twice.

reply to post by mustard seed


Every Cop I have ever come into contact with besides 2 are the same way. Arrogant. Puffed up. Our Masters, instead of Servant. They seem to forget we outnumber them 5000 to 1. And as the art of War states "those that act like the lion are weak, while those acting like the Mouse are strong"..

Look at what is going on recently. SWAT shoots 14 year old mistaking her for the suspect. So they are just killing suspects now because they dont want to deal with them?

Marine shot by SWAT 70 times as they had the wrong house. So much for their investigating skills. That is all Im going to mention because that is all that mosts attention span can even remember.

And when was the last time a Cop actually paid for their crimes against us? For every case of Justice, I could give you 10 where Justice is not served, and they get a slap on the wrist.

Just like in Katrina, when all hell breaks loose in this Country, the Majority will be running for the hills, because they know retribution is coming.

Good riddance to them.

reply to post by greenWeenie


Just like everything else, its "who you know" and nothing is as it seems.

reply to post by boondock-saint


Correct. And they will kill anyone to cover up their crimes. The days of pandering and groveling to them are over with, and I think that is what really chaps OPs hide. His power base is crumbling, and his ego is being starved.

S&F Good op and a good topic.

I work primarily with retired LE and investigators. I sometimes train on CAD with the local PD as well as one in a close town. I work with several things really to fill the time. My actual job is emergency repair for both software and hardware failures in those types of advanced systems.

I have to agree that for the most part cops across the board are pretty good folks doing a thankless job. I'm also aware that in every group there are cliques. Some of these subgroups are not so good. Its just human nature. But your correct, about 98% are good hardworking folks trying to get through another day and get home safe.

What the haters don't even realize is without the uniform they seldom have a clue who they are really talking to.

reply to post by semperfortis


What you don't seem to get is that, simply because you wear a badge and carry a gun, you don't automatically get respect from anyone. In the case of police and other law enforcement, you don't deserve it. People are simply sick and tired of you. You (law enforcement) are bullies. You are abusive to people who don't deserve abuse, you assault, badger, harass, the public you are paid to serve. If the public is lucky, that's all you'll do.

To blame even part of this issue on the threat of lawsuits is, frankly, cowardly. And I'm not surprised since it comes from an "officer." The threat of lawsuits is real, as it should be. You are charged with upholding the law and setting a higher standard than the average citizen. You fail miserably at that and holding you accountable for your antisocial, psychotic, and cowardly behavior is the least the citizenry can and should do. To top it off, I've witnessed police, time and again, lie under oath.

It's time for a massive change in this country and now is the time to make that change. We need to, at a minimum, require annual psychiatric exams for police, impose a "three strikes you're out" policy regarding abusive/harassment of citizens, create citizen councils to investigate (independently of any governmental body) and with power to bring criminal charges against an offending officer. That's to start. You, law enforcement, are PUBLIC SERVANTS. It's time you respect those you work for.

Originally posted by HermitShip
reply to post by boondock-saint

 

Correct. And they will kill anyone to cover up their crimes. The days of pandering and groveling to them are over with, and I think that is what really chaps OPs hide. His power base is crumbling, and his ego is being starved.

And that's the funny part: OP wants us, the public his fellow public servants have abused for so long, to feel sorry for them. How pathetic. Heroes? LOL!!!

Really in rereading the OP I feel a bit ill at the thought a "long time" officer has come to feel we all are the enemy and it is our own fault. This shows an entrenched mindset among public servants that leaves the service out. The OP said he would answer to non-baiting discussion and that has not occurred. Some distasteful opinions were barked out and then the subject dropped except for the cheerleaders. People this was who you depend on to protect your safety and he makes it clear if he feels the need to whoop your arse it is your fault, but leaves out if you feel the same about him you will be Bubba's bunkmate. Man, that he has/had a gun says volumes about why youtube is filled with LE acting like what USED to be shown in this country as why some countries were "bad" 30 yr ago. Now it is here and this guy says it is all our own fault, really dumbfounded by the arrogance and frightened by the arms.
seed

While everyone's perception of reality is skewed to their personal experiences, I can't help but notice the overwhelming insolence in your speaking to others. While 98% of the officers in your area could in fact be exactly as you say. It is just as possible for 98% of the officers in other areas to be the exact opposite. Police forces don't get disbanded in small towns for no reason at all. I find that more of the smaller to middle sized towns have very reputable people who work well in their communities. I find that most of the problems people are encountering with LEOs are stemming for the overstetching of the divisions on larger communities. Things that can easily be handled by traditional means are not being pursued with these methods, instead we have people hard lining and showing no flexibility or using fair judgement before taking drastic measures.

You say that the people have forced LEO divisions hand, but in turn you can't be suprised when the people claim you force theirs in return. To those who fail to heed the warning and reason of common sense, but instead respond with insolence shall be met in kind. It's time everyone realizes that we are all people of the nation and when you encounter situations where you are outnumbered with differing opinion you should not react against them in anger. The nation's laws are meant to be living, adapting with the changing views of the people. The people have been stripped of this right for the most part and many find themselves in confrontations where rigid approaches are being used on them because what is handed down from above to the LEO. When you blindly follow what you are told, you are not just doing your job. You instead are providing a hinderance for the members of your community, especially when the same things are overlooked in regards to other officers.

I believe that we need true oversight of law enforcement by the civilians. Too often cases brought against officers end with their internal investigations showing nothing. This presents an air of unfairness to the people of communities and goes to further drive their distaste for law enforcement. I can hardly blame them for their distrust of an organization that isn't subject to the same scrutiny the public would be if they were faced with the same accusations. Surely it is easy to understand this viewpoint. The public is asked to respect a division that polices itself, hands out hard lined decisions supported by judges who favor the word of the LEO over them, and is subject to required increase in ticketing for revenue (which can be life changing for each small infraction). These add to the increasing stress and tension between both sides.

Look at it from a nation who is in the midsts of a depression. An officer can ticket them (drive them into hardships that could take months to recover from), send them to jail (a hardship they may never recover from with the new hiring practices of not hiring people who have commited crimes ever), or just detain them (everyone is so scared of even being somewhat connected to someone in trouble with the police so social hardships occur when you find yourself in the crosshairs of an investigation.). The fear of what can happen to them drives the publics anger towards LEO. This has been amplified with the increasing number of things that people are being stopped for. Every new law is one more chance to be stopped. Statistics show we commit many crimes each day without even realizing it, and we are constantly reminded by the police officers who are bad that we can be brought away for anything if they have the time to find something we did wrong.

Tension is building on both sides, but no one side is to blame. Both civilians and LEO are going to have to work together to get out of this. The more we allow the government to set up US vs THEM with funding and other incentives, the closer we get to both sides meeting with the ferocity shown to each other in occassional flareups.

After reading the post, then the comments, my biggest question is, How is this guy a super moderator? I am kinda new here, but Super Moderator sounds like something that a cop, let alone one like this, should not have the responsiblity to do on this site. Just me, but I was under the impression this site was here to wake us up, and give us stories about corrupt cops like this one, to bash on. Not have one moderating our conversations, and then write post dogging us, telling us we are the reason why things are bad between us. AM I GOING CRAZY?

Right...a cop in our capitol was driving drunk and smashed into a motorcycle killing it's riders. Later the officer had his blood drawn and was shown to have a blood alcohol level of .20. However the police force made up a story about how the woman who drew the blood wasn't actually qualified to take blood and the sample is now inadmissible in court. The putz is now off scot-free and is happily out on the street bullying other citizens.

We will come for you and we do not forgive.

reply to post by semperfortis


Hey Man. Well thought out and well written post
You talk quite a lot of sense there I agree with, there is a culture of sue where possible-get what you can and for some reason the courts go along with it and dont seem t use any common sense whatsoever. In the US especially

However, the reason I like many others, have lost respect for police is through personal experience.
I will say though obviously theyre not all bad like in any group-there are good ones!

-Anyway, for example-seeing friends beaten up for plaing football on the street-outside theyre own house
-My friend was attacked in town, lying on the path covered in blood, me and another friend trying to stop the bleeding, police car with two cops in it slows down to see whats going on we tell them to get an ambulance and to help us....the driver shakes his head and they drive off. By the time the ambulance a stranger calls shows up my friends heart stops.....
-I watched a guy who fell asleep on the bus get his jaw broken, nose broken, rids broken by a cop on a power trip-go to court-the cop get off scott free.
-Getting parking fines for parking in the correct place-sending photos to the super of the signs above my car saying its ok to park there-having to take time off work to go to court and not have the cop show up!!
-My car was stolen-rang the police and was told 'what do you want us to do about it'-SERIOUSLY? when they EVENTUALLY got round to finding my car they told me they knew who stole it-I asked will they be arrested-I was told NO as it wasnt worth it! ???? what does that even mean?

I could go on and on about these kind of things. Some small some big but these all go towards eroding the good work that is done by the good cops so maybe the police forces should concentrate on improving relations in the community instead of picking on the easy targets!

I did have a single good interaction with a police officer in the last 6 months. My oldest son and his best friend, climbed the fence of the local private swimming club so they could skate board in the empty pool before the summer season started.
This same event has been happening at that swimming pool for as long as I can remember. I know because when I was 12 I did the exact same thing. With the exact same results. The old lady that lives behind the pool, (obviously not the same old lady from my child hood, she'd have to be 150) called the cops, and the sheriffs deputies showed up, made them call home, and I had to go to the pool and pick him up and make him apologize. Then we went home and he was grounded to his room for a week.

One of the deputies was more amused than the other, because he remembered exactly as I did, climbing that fence, and skating that pool, because he was one of the kids that was with me when I got busted for it 23 years ago. He was smiling, we shook hands and "the nod" happened, I was trying my best to look very angry for my sons benefit. He needed to know he was busted. Just like I needed it back then.

The other deputy I didn't know. And he was being a total jerk. Arms crossed and standing "too close", to the boys and over shadowing them and being oppressive and intimidating on purpose. When I walked up, I made it a point to walk into his personal space, at which time he looked both confused, and angry that I had essentially "moved him" out of my sons face.
These boys are 13 and 14, not old enough to be waxing their cars, but too old to be playing "army" and building forts or bike trails in the woods. There was no reason to intimidate them because they were so obviously scared already. Both of them had been forced to call home and explain that they were being held by a police officer. Neither of them took it lightly, nor were they dismissive or disrespectful to the officer.
They are both good kids, and so far in his life, (my son that is) climbing a fence to skate an empty pool is the worst thing he's been caught doing. Even his friend, while having a few more interactions with the deputies, is still a good kid.

Situations like this are where the difference the OP is talking about are most evident. This "crime", is so consistent, and so continuous, that it is almost an institution. I am roughly the same age as the guy who runs the pool, and I remember him when we were kids. His parents were the ones standing in his place when me and the deputy were waiting for our parents to come get us at the same pool. So this is a situation that happens 10 times every spring and fall when the pool gets drained. It's why whatever old lady lives in the house behind the pool is so vigilant at that window. That is her entertainment. She's the pool granny and she loves it.

But in this situation, if both of the deputies were like the second one, I can honestly say that this event would have ended differently. It would have turned into a confrontation, because if I had showed up at that pool with 2 grown men physically intimidating my 13 year old for skateboarding I would have actually gotten pissed. I would have felt more inclined to be protective of my son, than to acknowledge his wrong doing. I felt that twinge even when I knew one of the deputies. And I nodded at Robbie and raised my eyebrows after I told my son to get in the car, I was basically asking him what the other guys deal was, why was he being so aggressive to two kids.
He shrugged his shoulders and rolled his eyes, and I know what that response meant. "I don't know, he's a douche but he responded too".

And that is how it goes. Apparently Robbie can't tell another officer of equal rank to stop being such a butt head. That guy obviously wasn't local because he was acting as though DB Cooper had just been located and he was a 13 year old boy with a skateboard.

The pools owner wasn't angry, he wasn't yelling and red faced. He knows this routine. A million times over he knows this routine.
Robbie was relaxed and pleasant, and the kids were terrified, so there was no need for the second deputy to be aggressive and oppressive, unless!!! He was just kind of a jerk anyway. He was trying to "scare" into them a sense of fear and respect. What kind of man needs to intimidate a 13 year old who is on the verge of tears already??? A blatant and unrepentant A-Hole. That's who.

And it failed. All he succeeded in doing was convincing both kids that he was a jerk and a bully and my son said as much to me on the ride home. "That guy was being a total jerk before you got there dad. Do you know him, is that why he backed off".

And I said no. He backed off cause on the inside he's a coward and a bully and I didn't give him any fear to work with. Even if you did something wrong, and you get caught, you shouldn't have to be afraid. You'll probably feel embarrassed, or a little ashamed, but you shouldn't have to be afraid. The worst they can do is kill you.

That kind of freaked him out, but I figured this was his first run in, so he was obviously old enough to hear my actual beliefs on this subject, and over the next couple of days, I instructed him on what I do when I have to deal with a cop. Why I feel that you cannot trust a cop. And how to respond if you are confronted by a cop who seems dead set on either nailing you for anything he can think of, or trying to force you into a situation where you will "resist arrest".
He was pretty much horrified. He's been taught that all police are good, and you should respect them, and in one afternoon a single deputy undid all of that training and I had to explain to him how the "real world" actually works.

And I gave him the single best piece of advice I have ever learned about cops.

Cops show up, after the crime. AFTER the crime. When the victim calls them, or the person who finds the victim calls them.

The only time a cop shows up during the crime, is when he sees you, and decides in his mind that you are committing a crime.

And that is the critical reality of Law Enforcement. Cops are not there, when it would be most beneficial to a given situation. Cops are there when the event has happened and they start sorting out the garbage.
Or, when they decide that a possible crime might be happening with whomever is in their line of sight.

And to the poster who stated that a big part of the problem is that police training has shifted to over zealous paramilitary tactics in the wake of 9/11. Thank you for pointing that out. It is so often ignored that the line between CP and MP has gotten so blurry that civilian cops are being taught military tactics, and carry military weapons and tactical gear to answer loud music calls and expired tags on vehicles.

When you build a Rambo, you can't be surprised when he acts like Rambo. And you have to take responsibility for letting a Rambo loose in Mayberry. Sherriff Andy is still just as effective now as he was then. We just don't get Sherriff Andy anymore. He's too busy playing politics, and spending grant money on more military grade tactical training and gear.

We get deputy Rambo instead armed to the teeth and trained that every person in his immediate vicinity is a potential threat.

I can't imagine why people don't trust or respect police. It's a mystery, wrapped in a puzzle, that the general population obviously hordes for that quick payday someday in our future.

Here is a thought. If cops stopped doing the things that other cops get sued for.....wouldn't that pretty much put an end to the lawsuits???
You can't sue a cop for being friendly? Or for giving you a warning instead of an Arm bar take down over jaywalking.

People file lawsuits, when the lawyer tells them that there is enough evidence to threaten a jury trial, and get a quick settlement. If there was no evidence, No city would settle. While I am willing to acknowledge that it is easy to get a settlement from most cities over police related lawsuits, it's only easy because settlements are always much less expensive than if you take it in front of jury of regular people. Then what you are really paying for is the anger and insult of the regular people when they see what is going on most of the time.

People don't win settlements on the shaky testimony of a convicted crackhead. If it was that easy, I'd have my Porsche by now. I'd be running around just trying to punch a cop in the face so he'd beat the crap out of me and my craftily placed camera man would only start filming AFTER I started getting "Kinged".

I'd proudly wear those wounds all the way to the bank, and then all the way to my European vacation! lol

Seems to me that Cops have way too much time on their hands.

Are there not any more important matters too take care of? You know, dealing with danger and dangerous Persons all the time. And in this Economy its almost as if they want People to starve.

And what about dancing in the Jefferson Memorial, the Father of free expression?

Why dont the Cops actually uphold their Oaths to the Constitution, and arrest the Criminals who have destroyed this Country instead of being revenue agents for them?

Why do cops try to trick you in giving up your rights when they; again, have sworn the Oath to protect those rights?

Why is there so much hypocrisy, and so little reason and debate, and only fallacy offered as such?

I have a question.

If "Corruption" and "Police Brutality" aren't issues...

Why does the Denver Police Union feel that the shirt below, is appropriate to solicit to their members?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/14370ee2d844.jpg[/atsimg]

You mentioned that someone would have to come up with approximately 200,000 videos to say that these are issues in the force, and well.. How many officers would you say were present at the DNC?

It seems to me their unions advertised to them as "open season" on the crowds through the shirt above...

After reading the thread and feeling several emotions from the posts, I have a few thoughts:

To the OP:
Do you regret starting this thread now that you have basically opened Pandora's Box? You can't start a thread like this, put the blame on the civilians and act like you're going to be applauded. The People are tired of the abuse, the scandals, the lies.



You have to understand that there are more than "6 or 7" videos out there, and more are being recorded every single day. The loophole that is being used to avoid Posse Comitatus is the police force. You come armed with all sorts of military grade weapons. I'm sure it reminds you quite a bit of being in the marines, only you have better weapons now.

At first I thought you were going to be a really awesome LEO but then I was completely disappointed when you pulled the, "It's YOU!" line. You like the word fail, well... you're a pretty good example. I'm not trying to be rude or insulting but you are in a place of responsibility not only in the real world, but on this board. You are not honoring your role here and with your attitude, I most definitely would not want to see you in my rear view mirror with your "it's YOU!" attitude.

Here's a simple truth for you, OP:

The people are waking up. Hostility is rising. To say the common view of the people is animosity towards LEOs would be an understatement. When the day comes and your community rises up armed to the teeth and ready for payback, I hope you'll understand. We can play the "It's YOU!" card right back. We pay your salary. As MustardSeed said with no reply... you work for US. Your bosses are not pleased. Oh.. don't look to the ELITE in hopes of being saved, they're higher on the list than you are. Change is coming soon. Like you said, you can feel it.

To the "Cop haters":

None of us just woke up one day thinking, "I'm gonna hate a man in a badge today." We've been more than patient. We've watched in dismay as video after video and article after article has popped up. We've watched as the police resemble the military more each day. We've seen their us against them mentality expand. Don't let Semper or any other LEO pretend they are justified in their abuse of power. They are the ones with the responsibility to "protect and serve." If granny is a little too feisty for them, maybe they need a different job NOT DEALING WITH THE PUBLIC.

To the "cop loyalists":

This isn't Andy Griffith's town. Mayberry is long gone. The cops out trying to meet quotas or violating 4th Amendment Rights are not the same cops that were around in the 50's. My dad was given a ticket for sitting in his car with his seat belt not on. Here's the kicker, the car was off... he was eating lunch.. parked at a park. The cop walked over to him and told him he was breaking the law to have the keys in the ignition without his seat belt on! Really?

Youtube Search For Police Brutality

Granted not all of these may even be in the U.S. but you were upset about 6 or 7.... there are over 10,000 videos in this search. You can take the time to watch them.


If you're a LEO, I strongly advise seeking a new career. You won't be able to change the corrupt, power hungry cops. You won't be able to make a difference. The lines are drawn and it is without a doubt, "Us against them". A time is coming very soon where the police will not be wearing badges, there faces will not be shown, and they will more closely resemble storm troopers than the Sheriff we all know and love. A time is also coming when they will aim their weapons at us and the revolution will begin.

I suppose in conclusion, I will agree with the "It's YOU!" statement in one aspect.... our apathy has allowed this country to get to this point. We should have put you in your place long long ago.

reply to post by HermitShip


Oh, thats right, Cops are just doing their 'job'







Their job off beating People up like the OP has stated he likes doing. Women no less. I bet it really makes em fell big and tuff beating up a little girl that is already at the station, and in a cell. Tuff men. What they let a little girls words drive them to assault. Wow thin skin.........And its not against the law to mouth off at the Masters. Or is it? Will I be arrested for posting such things on the "Masters" thread as well? Maybe the Master is looking up my IP address right now since he is "super mod"..................I dont acknowledge the Supreme Court rulling by the way voiding the 4th Amendment, and take threats to my Castle seriously.

reply to post by EagleTalonZ


A BIG AMEN TO THAT BROTHER.............Their time is up!!!!

Everyone remember this right? He was murdered. The city settled with the Family. I wonder if OP thinks the family of the murdered Man are the same type of People he described in his OP?

Well do you OP? You think this murdered Mans family is looking for a easy paycheck?

Hmmmmm? Pfft.

BUMP for the night crowd, lets put this thread at number one and show everyone who they really are.