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Respect, Corruption, Law Enforcement and You

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posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by Butterbone

" at least he didn't bust us".


Has turned into: "Don't taze me bro!" and "At least he didnt shoot my dog."




posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by semperfortis
reply to post by Evil_Santa
 


I do not work for the Denver Police, nor have I ever sold Tee Shirts..

Never have

Semper


Never have addressed my assertion your attitude as a public servant is indefensible and deserving of removal from any position in which you receive any form of compensation or pay from the public you revile Ociffer Semper sir. So are you actually going to debate or just bait? I know where my money lies (pun intended)
seed



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 02:10 PM
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reply to post by semperfortis
 


That still didn't address my question. The example of the DNC shirt was to setup the premise for the question, based on past actions taken by a body of LEO's and the Unions that represent them. Also -- please be reminded that at the DNC/RNC/G8/G20/etc protests, there is always a large number of outside assistance (from other cities) brought in to assist with these events.

My question is: Do you agree or disagree, that among your peers, there's an acceptance of police brutality towards citizens?

It should also be noted, that you're an LEO, and I don't believe that you would have felt that having one of your questions side-stepped would be an acceptable (or respectful) response by the person you're addressing.



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 02:22 PM
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reply to post by Evil_Santa
 


I don't think he answered anyones question, he is too experienced to waste his time proving his point, so he can just brush it off by saying "oh the cop haters are here as planned"



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 02:45 PM
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I have yet to see any real debate on this forum.

There is nothing semper can post that will satisfy the majority of posters other than "I was wrong, you were right, I'm a horrible person and deserve whatever torturous death you choose for me".

At the same time, I seriously doubt his willingness to admit that the problem isn't lawsuits and the public, as much as it is the fundamental core attitudes that police and local government have adopted over the last 20 years in order to secure more advanced technology and funding during the failed war on drugs and the new war on terror. He is close enough to the subject matter that he may not recognize that there is really only a difference in uniform color between Law Enforcement and National Guard.

The best you can hope for on ATS is to present your point of view, or your own version of unsupported youtube facts, or your personal and unverifiable stories without putting forth too many personal attacks and without receiving too many personal attacks in return.


Video killed the radio star, and anonymous Internet Forums killed Debate.



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 03:01 PM
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Soooo , 29 cops flagged this thread

edit on 24-6-2011 by xavi1000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 03:16 PM
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reply to post by xavi1000
 
"That is a detergent, if it gets in that officers eyes, I'm going to arrest you!"

What an angry man trying to look like an alpha male.... using the lame "oohhh, a bubble might get in my eye" for an excuse for assault. What a wimp.

My kids play with those bubbles regularly. One is 5 years old. Never had him whine about a bubble in his eye, but he's not a wuuuussssss!!!!



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 03:20 PM
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reply to post by xavi1000
 


I flagged it, and I disagree with the sentiment of the OP. It might do some good for people to read through some of this.

What happened while that video was cut? It seemed like everything was settled down....the rude a-hole with the badge and shades talked down to the girl, everything seemed ok, then all the sudden she's being cuffed and put in the paddywagon. No surprise I guess, but did something else happen there?

My lord, what a dick! He should have asked for her number, she is really pretty. Oh well, at least it's not against the law to blow bubbles.
edit on 24-6-2011 by greenWeenie because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-6-2011 by greenWeenie because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by greenWeenie
reply to post by xavi1000
 


I flagged it, and I disagree with the sentiment of the OP. It might do some good for people to read through some of this.

What happened while that video was cut? It seemed like everything was settled down....the rude a-hole public servant with the badge and shades talked down to the girl, everything seemed ok, then all the sudden she's being cuffed and put in the paddywagon. No surprise I guess, but did something else happen there?

My lord, what a dick! I'm just glad I live in a country where we have the freedom to blow bubbles.
edit on 24-6-2011 by greenWeenie because: (no reason given)
I think she must have blown a bubble.



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 03:36 PM
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reply to post by semperfortis
 


I work part time for a Forensic Behavioral Psychologist contractor, training LEOs in CIT [crisis intervention]. I come in contact with Sheriffs dept., Highway patrol, County and state law enforcement people from trainees, rookies to seasoned veterans and the thing that sticks out is that there is a definite disconnect from the community that pays their salaries.. There is a pronounced we/them mentality with it's accompanying arrogance toward "civilians" with little effort to even hide it. It's very hard to respect a man or woman that by the nature of their employment has no respect for you even as a person. I think I am making a difference as a CIT trainer but not much!!

I thought perhaps that I might find a respect for LEOs thru personal contact and getting to know them on a much more intimate level....didn't happen. In fact just the opposite. They think community relations training is just a pain in the butt and a waste of time as a requirement for professional advancement.



edit on 24-6-2011 by whaaa because: open for business



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 03:38 PM
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reply to post by semperfortis
 


I feel much the same way after 30+ years in the Army. Society has legislated that we be soft, or be sued or imprisoned. One of the main reasons I retired. And it leads to bad things eventually.

Like you, I always tried to be fair and open minded, but there is also a time to wall to wall counsel somebody.

I see that people here think that the police should be at their beck and call, like they can transport to a possible crime scene. Then when the Cop has to drive twenty miles to get there, they scream that they're too late. Uh….ya think?

People have given up their right to be held responsible in favor of the litigation courts. They can absolutely do no wrong in their mind.

There is little respect nowadays just amongst people. But I do try to lead by example.

I do pity the poor soul though who disrespects me for no other reason than I won’t move for them on the sidewalk. They’ve always lost, and I never once needed a cop.

It works both ways, it's not that there are corrupt cops, it's just that there are corrupt people.
edit on 24-6-2011 by TDawgRex because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 04:06 PM
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Why should I respect police? Why do you believe you should have authority. If this government is for the people and by the people, and the people pay their taxes, shouldnt you be the ones respecting us? Arent we your boss? Dont we quote sign your checks?

Your mentality as a police officer is why I dont respect you or the job you do. You think because you get a shiny badge and a gun, I should automatically respect you.

You should be helping common folk out. If you see me doing something wrong or unsafe, instead of exercising what you call "authority" you should help a citizen out by pointing him in the right direction... 99 out of 100 citizens would be thankful and remain lawful.

You are a tool of law. Not the law. The law is dictated by government and hence the people. Your job is to keep me safe, not catch me doing something wrong.

Police of now are nothing but bully tax collectors.



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 04:36 PM
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Originally posted by YayMayorBee
Why should I respect police? Why do you believe you should have authority. If this government is for the people and by the people, and the people pay their taxes, shouldnt you be the ones respecting us? Arent we your boss? Dont we quote sign your checks?

- We, the People or the community, give them the authority. You answered your own question.

Your mentality as a police officer is why I dont respect you or the job you do. You think because you get a shiny badge and a gun, I should automatically respect you.

- Respect is a trait. If you give it, you will generally recieve it.

You should be helping common folk out. If you see me doing something wrong or unsafe, instead of exercising what you call "authority" you should help a citizen out by pointing him in the right direction... 99 out of 100 citizens would be thankful and remain lawful.

-I have never been arrested, but have been escorted home quite a few times. I never gave them any lip either. Oh, and 99 out of 100 are probably thankful, but are not members of ATS.

You are a tool of law. Not the law. The law is dictated by government and hence the people. Your job is to keep me safe, not catch me doing something wrong.

- So, now you want your very own Police Officer to watch over you? Are you going to pay his/her salary?

Police of now are nothing but bully tax collectors.

- I'm stunned, I have nothing to say to that remark. Really?




posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 04:58 PM
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My old man said, "Every one hates the cops until you need em." That sentiment is true. It goes with the profession that some are gonna dislike you, and have contempt for the law. Cops are like all groups a mixed bag. Most are decent, but some are bad. You cannot paint any group with too broad a brush.

That being said, since 2001 things are different.

The militarization of police is extremely visible to me personally. I have seen the Bill of Rights shredded, and police become the tools of an out of control state. We can all give experiences of how police helped, or harmed us. I have a few stories myself. What ever your experience, police have changed. The OP may not be able to tell because he has been around it, and gradual changes are harder to notice then sudden ones. I can tell that police are quicker to react aggressively, and often use force when a few words where said a couple decades ago. It saddens me, but it is part of a wider creeping fascism that is happening in the country.

It is important to remember that the police are the closest mechanism of the state to you and me. We can blame, castigate, fight,, and hate cops all we want. What we should be doing is talking to them. We should be helping remind them that they took oaths to protect and serve the people not the state. We should respect them, and show them how to find the way back to what law enforcement is about. Helping the community you are a part of, and solving problems with out force if at all possible.



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 05:12 PM
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reply to post by stephinrazin
 


Very well said. My hats off to you.

I have a feeling that those who defend the Police here are from small Towns, whereas those who disparage are from Cities.

There is a difference.



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 05:16 PM
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reply to post by semperfortis
 


In my opinion I feel a great deal of the problem is the way we are spoken to or treated by officers. I have seen it first hand. While with a friend who was a dark hispanic driving in FL, we were pulled over by the FHP, when the officer came to the window, all he said was "Niger let me see your drivers license" My friend replied "sir excuse me but I am not a negro I am hispanic" he replied "Look I don't give a f**k what kind of Niger you are, I want to see your drivers license".

I think it is also the arrogance and the way they carrie them self with the projection that there sh** don't stink!

How can someone respect that behavior?



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 05:36 PM
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I'm not sure what your desired outcome is for creating this thread. Maybe you want a little sympathy or empathy. Maybe you want to educate others or just clear up misconceptions?

Either way, I doubt it will make a noticeable difference.
I say this because of one simple fact. Personal LEO Experience.

I think you fail to realize that most who shun or hate police do so for a very simple reason. Experience.

Individual police perception is mostly based on first hand experience. Second hand experience when there is no first hand experience. First hand experience is what's truly shaping peoples perceptions of today's LEO.

The few disrespectful, corrupt, abusive, arrogant, unethical, and poorly trained LEOs are doing a fantastic job of ruining the public image for all LEOs. All while the apparent "good ones" sit back and let it happen.

So, I would like to personally place the blunt of blame of any public LEO hostility back on the LEOs.

People are getting fed up, angry and intolerant to LEOs as a whole for the bad behavior of just a few. And really a few is all it takes. Is this fair? Yes it is. Especially when these LEOs are armed and bestowed with power. Just one bad LEO is all it takes. Blame the LE system, blame the bad LEOs who show up on youtube, blame the LEO who turns a blind eye, blame the FEDs for enforcing quotas, blame the Patriot Act, blame the ordinances or laws, yet do not blame the general public.

More hostility is created every day by the continued behavior of some LEOs. Once a person is disrespected, accosted, abused, treated unfairly or have their rights stripped away by just one bad LEO - they will not trust or support a LEO the same ever again.

I will applaud the day when an LEO like you creates a thread addressed to all other LEOs that can actually make a difference, instead of the general public.

Note: I intentionally avoided generalizing LEO's and focused my comments on the "bad" LEOs.


edit on 24-6-2011 by matito because:



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 05:38 PM
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Respect is earned. Yes, one starts off with the basic respect level and it is either deteriorated or fortified. Cops have a special way of deteriorating that quite quickly - often within minutes.

The Police simply do not respect the public or their rights, so why should the public reciprocate?

They are creating their own enemies under some misguided jist that they are serving the public.

The cop with the bubbles. What a jerk. He has sunglasses on and was afraid of a little bubble on him. The girl cop next to him didn't seem to mind, and she did not have glasses on.

The cop had a gun - why not just shoot the bubble! He could have used his finger instead of the gun.

Is he really that afraid of a bubble???

May ten thousand bubbles pop in his eyes for the rest of his life. What a fool...


Semper - how do we turn this around? It seems to me that the cops need to start first because of all the damage they have caused so far. How can they swing public opinion in a favorable manner towards them? I think it's too late.....

-E2



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 05:42 PM
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reply to post by matito
 


Please add the LEO Unions as they are first to defend bad LEO behaviour on the news.

And the good LEOs often get burned out in big cities, all because of the bad.

Too often they become bad themselves, or just quit & move to a better town.



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 05:42 PM
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Originally posted by TDawgRex
reply to post by stephinrazin
 


Very well said. My hats off to you.

I have a feeling that those who defend the Police here are from small Towns, whereas those who disparage are from Cities.

There is a difference.


i'm from a pretty small town, and i don't have much respect for police anymore. the police take liberties with our liberties. "i'll arrest you if a bubble touches me". give me a break, its harmless, yet his ego has been offended. he'll do whatever he wants because he knows he'll get away with it.

do you know how many police i see not using their turn signals? flipping their lights on to catch a red light, then turning them off? "big deal" you say. yes it is, because it shows you the attitude officers have towards "laws".

i was pulled over not too long ago, i had been smoking, and the officer said he "smelled pot". i used to travel between the state i live in, and where i worked as a welder(i was also routinely drug tested at the job), i had all my stuff in my truck. after telling the officer he wouldn't find anything illegal, and that it was not pot, i told him he could test it for pot. he declined, and called another officer. i spent 30 minutes cuffed in a squad car while they went through all of my stuff, didn't find a thing. it was haphazardly thrown back into my truck in a pile, and i was let free with no ticket. they literally told me "your punishment will be cleaning your truck up". it was a mess.

my respect for officers has taken quite a plunge.

btw, i was smoking tobacco out of a wooden pipe. i wasn't "allowed" to show them what i was smoking (which they tested) because he was afraid i was going to pull a weapon on him. the crazy druggie that i was.
edit on 24-6-2011 by Bob Sholtz because: (no reason given)




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