Respect, Corruption, Law Enforcement and You

Where to start? The beginning is usually the best option, but where did this begin? Perhaps some background will get this going.

I have been in Law Enforcement since 1986, leaving the Marines in December of 1985. During my tenure I have served in almost every capacity you may imagine, excluding K9, and I even considered that, but at the time I had other goals. I have attended police academies in 3 states and schools in several dozen disciplines. I have been a street cop, traffic cop, SWAT team member and SWAT team leader; an investigator and every rank from patrolman to Captain.

Now. When did things start to change? I'm not sure. Yes yes I know that is not what everyone wants to hear, but the truth of the matter is that the change I am addressing and will discuss in detail, was gradual. Extremely gradual in fact.

When I first started in law enforcement, people as a rule respected us. Remember I said as a rule; there has always been that group of people that wish to further their own selfish goals and historically law enforcement has hindered that pursuit. We are not here to discuss that ever present minority. Rather the current trend of the overall population to have diminished respect for, or a complete loss of respect for the civil servant that is the serving law enforcement officer. Perhaps it would be more accurate if I prefaced this by saying I am not completely convinced that this is not more an ATS phenomenon then one indicative of society as a whole. Yet in my day to day contact with with people, even I have noticed a change, a change that is not for the better.

I remember when I first decided to pursue a career in law enforcement; it was almost as a last resort. I was not what you might call a prime candidate; at least I never thought so. I was something of a renegade, a “wild child” if you will and the people I grew up with in West Virginia will certainly attest to that. As a young man growing up in rural West Virginia I had several “scrapes” with the local police, ran from them on several occasions and was even escorted back to my Granny on one very embarrassing and eventually painful day. Then after college came the Marine Corps where I thought fighting was mandatory and found myself in the hot seat several times. Yet I made it out and got my Honorable Discharge. There I stood, outside the base, a free man and thought; now what? I can shoot and fight, I wonder if the Mafia is hiring. I came home and got a call from the friend of a friend and next thing you know I was being handed a badge and a gun and told to go to work.

The point to all this wondering is that back “in the day” having served in the armed forces, specifically the Marines, was almost a free ticket into police work. The thought process was the man or woman would have good discipline, would be able to take orders and could handle themselves in a fight. They were not far off in point of fact; because back then we fought. A lot. There were no Tasers, no fancy OC Spray, no ASP Batons, just a pr24 (if you were lucky, a night stick for most), a portable that looked like a loaf of bread, your hands and your wits. Most times there was little if any backup available, so the portables, while useless anyway, were never really relied upon. You needed to be able to handle yourself, or you did not last long. Many left early on as it was not the lifestyle they envisioned. We fought and we won. However unlike today, the people we fought never pulled a gun, or rarely I should say as I had some interesting encounters, they did not knife you, they were just old drunks that would fight you, you would kick their butts and put them in the holding cell for the night, take them to the Magistrate the next day where their wives would pay the small fine, they shook our hands and went home until next weekend. We fought. Matter of fact that is/was how respect was earned back then. As funny as it may sound, they respected us and in a strange way, we respected them as well.

We fought, earned respect, gained a reputation and did our jobs.

Judge me if you will, but that was the system back then. Now?

Now we have college boys and girls that stand 50 feet away from granny and taze her if she does not comply. Instead of just walking up and slapping the cuffs on her, they gas her. Now how is anyone supposed to respect that?

Why taze granny? Why gas granny? YOU...... That's right I said it, YOU.

The gradual change I have referenced is of course the sue happy people of this once great nation. The police can't physically assert their authority, can never build a reputation because the moment they lay hands on any one of you, you will sue them; and the liberal courts, or liberal jurisdictions will award them money and at the very least they lose their jobs or even worse, their homes and other possessions.
Yet they are still required by YOU to enforce the laws of their particular jurisdiction or again lose their jobs. What a funny little society we have that requires miracles from our police.

I have investigated incidents where a shooting occurred when the officer on the scene may have hesitated in the face of an obvious shooting situation. Luckily they survived and when I talked to them and asked why they did not draw and fire, their answer was: “Man I have a family”. They could have died due to the fear of a lawsuit...

More to follow.

Semper

More:

Someone asked me what I have done to fight police corruption. First and foremost let us reach an understanding. I am in a position to see, know about or suspect corruption FAR more easily and readily then you and sorry, but corruption is no where near as rampant as some of you would make it out to be. Some of your stories on here crack me up as they are obvious fabrications and massive exaggerations. There is corruption, just not on the scale some of you would love for it to be.

Now let us differentiate between several concepts.

1. Corruption
2. Excessive use of force
3. Just a plain butt of a cop

All three exist in one form or another all over the country. Funny thing is, the one you all cry foul about the most, is the one that is now, at this time in history, the least present. Corruption.

Number 3 is by far the most prevalent, but let us not forget ATS. Some of you on here fall into that category as well. Not the cop part, but the butt part.. as do I on occasion..

Number 2 can be handled at the squad level the first time it happens with some good old fashion days off without pay. Subsequent abuses need further administration.

So... What do I do to fight corruption? Show me some real corruption and I will fight it. Until then I will continue to live my life hopefully as an example, help people whenever I can and enforce the laws of my state and this great nation.

Thank you for your time and I will gladly try and answer any non-leading questions you may have.

Semper

Have you ever encountered a fellow law enforcement officer that was drinking and driving while off duty?

I have observed this act occurring with LEO's repeatedly, and it makes my blood boil.

Originally posted by semperfortis

The gradual change I have referenced is of course the sue happy people of this once great nation. The police can't physically assert their authority, can never build a reputation because the moment they lay hands on any one of you, you will sue them; and the liberal courts, or liberal jurisdictions will award them money and at the very least they lose their jobs or even worse, their homes and other possessions.

Yet they are still required by YOU to enforce the laws of their particular jurisdiction or again lose their jobs. What a funny little society we have that requires miracles from our police.

Not required by me to do a damn thing.

The only people who are "requiring" their presence are the same paranoid sheep who are "requiring" us to bomb children overseas lest the boogie man crash a plane into their house.

Call me a radical psychotic anarchist if you want but dont call me a hypocrite. I rang for cops once. I'll never do it again. I'll never ask "where were the police?" "why arent there any cops?" or shout "somebody call the police!" because there's nothing to gain but roadblocks and expanded suffering when you involve them.

I'll call the fire department, paramedics, even a lawyer but I wont call cops. They had their chance to be useful, helpful, protective, etc... and they blew it spectacularly.

The thing that i believe makes people show no respect to any kind of authority figure, be it police or anything, is the internet.
Wether it be youtube or general news. There will always be a minority of police who are brutal, or islamic extremists or anything, but the minority are the ones that make the news and give a bad reputation to the majority. Before the internet was readily availible to everybody there didnt seem to be as many stories readily availible for people to scrutinize and blow out of all proportion.
I am not saying that these things didnt happen before, as we all know they did, but one story of a cop using excess force now, is spead across the net in minutes and people dont see the bigger picture. All they see is one person commiting a crime or whatever, and tarnish the whole group with the same brush.
Unfortunately i cant see it getting better any time soon either.

Nice Post. Thank you for that.

I'm not going to respond with a "Cop Bashing" post. I have family in Law Enforcement and they pretty much would concure with your Post AND Yep..ex marines.

To some of us civilians, we have this idea that Law Enforcement has a "secret handshake". You give each other preferential treatment whether a Sheriff,City Cop, or State Trooper.

Whether true or not..it is perceived and resented. Not by me ya understand.. just SOME people.

SOME people think that because of the "secret handshake," you will protect your family or friends and fellow Law Enforcment brothers over us civilians. That's one of the perks of the job.

I'm just sayin Semper..Not right or wrong.(or is it?)...but it is a perception.

Again, thanks from your perspective.

I do agree. It is hard to put a finger on any one thing in particular. But what happened to the day when parents would use police to their advantage for raising their children. There used to be a time when parents would be on the polices side, I unfortunately have informed my kids that under no circumstances are they to talk to the police if they are being accused of something until myself or an attorney are present, because I know anything that they may say would be used against them whether it was fact or not, just to get the conviction.

Also, it also seems that law enforcement no longer serves and protects. It seems to me that police go looking for law breakers, as in, they just look for reasons to confront civilians. Why? I do not know. Is it because of the economy? Whatever the case, it no longer seems to be to serve and protect but to hand out fines, arrests or whatever else to raise money, not to necessarily to protect. It is hard to tell which side police are on at times.

Then I have to also look at society. Society has fallen apart. I can see the officers point of view as well, but again in this day and time, you cannot look at another person without being sued. I am not sure what the solution is, but it is obvious we are not on the same team as the citizens and authority have become divided without any sort of common ground between them. The one thing that gets me is society will not handle certain situations on their own and think that every altercation must result in calling in the police when arguments break out as to who gets the biggest slice of pie.

I do not know, but it sure is a mess, but if citizens would once again start taking personal responsibility for their actions would be a good starting point.

Edit:

Another thing. Certain situations do not require for the "law" to be adhered to and I do not think officers necessarily use their best judgment to resolve an issue. They at times, do tend to be a stickler for the "law" and make the arrest or citation when the officer has had a chance to get to the bottom of it and there is in fact a solution outside of the jail cell or court room. They use the cop-out answer of "its the law". BS. Whether this is the officers fault or the fault of the "system" is beyond me, but this is also another reason police are unwelcome is because people feel that if they are called in, someone, regardless is going to get a ticket or arrested, for wasting their time.

It doesn't help you honest LEO's much when I meet a guy for the first time on a fishing trip and at the end of the day, he hands me a card with his name and rank on it, then tells me... "If you are ever pulled over in _ _ _ _ _ _ , County, New Jersey, just show them my card... they'll let you go."

There is preferential treatment that goes on. I don't care for it and I threw that guys card away.

I'm sure you are a good guy but that said, I'd rather call a bunch of gang-bangers than the cops. I'm with Thisguyrighthere on this one.

Originally posted by Skewed
There used to be a time when parents would be on the polices side, I unfortunately have informed my kids that under no circumstances are they to talk to the police if they are being accused of something until myself or an attorney are present, because I know anything that they may say would be used against them whether it was fact or not, just to get the conviction.

Also, it also seems that law enforcement no longer serves and protects. It seems to me that police go looking for law breakers, as in, they just look for reasons to confront civilians. Why? I do not know. Is it because of the economy? Whatever the case, it no longer seems to be to serve and protect but to hand out fines, arrests or whatever else to raise money, not to necessarily to protect. It is hard to tell which side police are on at times.

That's their job now. One simple track to boost their stats. They dont care about the truth, the context, or the "justice." You leave a kid alone with a cop for 5 minutes and that kid's going to hauled off and locked up with at least a dozen made up charges over his head because the cops #1 priority is to catch, arrest, and help convict. Innocence doesnt factor in to the equation. There's a crime somewhere and that cops going to do everything he can to find it or just charge it even without any proof at all and mark it off on his stats.

After that whether you are found innocent and released or hanged in the town square is of no consequence to him. He got his numbers in and did his job.

They just run around kid napping people for their stats for Christ's sake:

Adil Polanco, a five-year veteran of the NYPD's 41st Precinct in the Bronx, confirmed to WABC that police are under relentless official pressure to make arrests and issue summonses in order to meet arbitrary quotas.

"We are stopping kids walking upstairs to their house, stopping kids going to the store, young adults ... in order to keep the quota," discloses Officer Polanco. "Our primary job is not to help anybody, our primary job is not to assist anybody, our primary job is to get those numbers and come back with them."

Like other decent people who become police officers out of a genuine desire to protect the rights and property of individuals — yes, such people do exist — Polanco is severely disillusioned by the reality of his profession.

"I'm not going to keep arresting innocent people, I'm not going to keep searching people for no reason, I'm not going to keep writing people [citations] for no reason, I'm tired of this," declared a visibly disgusted Polanco.

Audio recordings played during the segment broadcast by WABC confirmed Polanco's account.

One patrol supervisor told officers that unyielding and ever-increasing arrest and citation quotas would be part of their professional lives "until you decide to quit this job and become a Pizza Hut delivery man"; another supervising officer tells police that "you're going to be doing a lot more, a lot more" by way of meeting arrest and citation quotas. Link

The big paranoid fear was that the spooky white van was going to snatch up your kids. Now that marked cruiser and uniformed officer seems more likely than a weirdo in a van to kidnap your kids.

Semper, I've read your posts listened to you on ATS live, and though I don't know you personally you persona here seems to be what I would desire in a peace officer. As a matter of fact I'd love to see more peace officers and less law-enforcement officers. You guys are rapidly becoming the armed revenue generation arms of the municipalities you serve.

We have similar upbringings and experiences. I grew up in the semi-rural south, got in trouble in my teens, served in combat arms MOS the Army, but quickly decided to stay away from law-enforcement after the Army.

I'm afraid my experiences in life will lead me to teach my children differently than I was about interactions with police. I was pretty much taught to respect and obey the police because it was the right thing to do. There is more to it than that but that's the simplest way to describe how I was taught. Like most boys, I flipped between wanting to be a fireman, a cop, or a soldier. I will teach my children to respect and obey police, but not because it's the right thing to do. They will be taught to respect the police because the police have guns, have power, and if you are wronged by one even in cases that don't involve the line of duty it is very unlikely to get redress. We have become very third world in that regard. I personally think the "War on Drugs" bears most of the blame. That faux war has done more to eviscerate the Constitution than terrorists and communists combined, and at the end of the day much like prohibition it ends up being a war by the government not against shadowy foreign cartels but against people I know an like.

I am extremely concerned about the recent cases of police siezing and destroying videos of them in action. Police started the recording but it seems like it's only cool if they have control of the video. I am also extremely concerned about things like no-knock warrants, SWAT serving so many warrants, and the overall militarization of law-enforcement.

It simply no longer feels to me like you guys and the general populace are on the same side. If you read any of my posts on the LEO related threads, I'm pretty fair minded about use of force, but the thugishness that is shown to citizens who just want to bear witness to the actions of those that we pay to do a job has really turned me against you guys.. You still have my respect but it's not due to admiration of someone who does a tough but necessary job, it's because I fear what you can do to me if I piss you off on the wrong day.

reply to post by butcherguy


I have

And arrested him

That is also one of my "Pet Peeves" so to speak

reply to post by niceguybob


They do have a secret handshake type thing and a favor notebook to go with it.

Have you ever seen the "thin blue line sticker"? It's what cop friends and family use so people close to them can get out of minor infractions like speeding without having to pony up cash like the rest of us.

reply to post by semperfortis


i live in a town about 1 and half square miles big. We have local police, 5.. And state police stationed inside of it. Our locals only work during day, even though 90% of crime occurs during the night. The state police have very little jurisdiction, supposedly, except for while local are off duty. And when local is off duty, stae police only have 5 on duty, and are responsible, obviously, for close to 70 square miles.. Even though their station is in town, they are most always out of town. Now so far none of this is corruption. Our local chief has a brother that owns a collision center in town. For 90% of the crime being theft, or vandalism, we spend majority of our money setting up checkpoints, whther dui or seat belt, because we have a small "highway" (number rd) go through our ttown. The speed limit of which is 55, except for quarter mile inside my town, its 35. They have impounded cars for obvious infractions.. They also impound cars for tail light out. Impounded a car in a drive way with a car cover on it because it wasnt insured. Impounded a car that had expired plates by 1 day, while it was infront of the dmv. We have corruption.. The chief impounds more cars per square mile than the city, and all because his brother owns the tow company. Sad

So what's your point? Am i supposed to feel "bad" for you? Isnt this what you get paid for, to approach the criminal element in life and make it right according to the law!

If im reading your post right you are criticizing your own for being young and impulsive. if so i salute you for seeing the truth but that is all.

So now to the brass tax. your upset that sue happy america is suing cops for being dirtbags. LMFAO what a joke.

what can we do when police beat the living crap out of someone for spray painting graffiti. We can fight back no no no that would be a felony assualt on a officer, then you get to go away for a long time. We cant shoot back because that means forever in jail, most of us dosnt want that.

So they sue they only thing availible to the population to strike back at the corruption. Yes i said it CORRUPTION.

Police should be shinning pillars of the law NOT ABOVE THE LAW. When i say corruption i am pointing to the entire institution of police in america, the courts and half of the judges.

Yes i believe 99% of cops are corrupt. Ihave said before my uncle and aunt are cops and they both can *SNIP*

Police in america even the whole system needs to be updated. Go to youtube where you can see your fellow officers being shinning examples of the community.

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or this one, skip to the 2 minute mark or watch the entire video
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This is why we dont trust or respect you, you are all evil and belong in hell!


Mod Note: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.

Originally posted by semperfortis
Why taze granny? Why gas granny? YOU...... That's right I said it, YOU.

The gradual change I have referenced is of course the sue happy people of this once great nation. The police can't physically assert their authority, can never build a reputation because the moment they lay hands on any one of you, you will sue them; and the liberal courts, or liberal jurisdictions will award them money and at the very least they lose their jobs or even worse, their homes and other possessions.
Yet they are still required by YOU to enforce the laws of their particular jurisdiction or again lose their jobs. What a funny little society we have that requires miracles from our police.
Semper

It isn't so much a problem of the people forcing this on us; its a problem of the laywers screwing everything up, as usual. That seems to be their main job.

The lawyers convinced people to file suit against cops every time they got a little scrape from the police, no matter how much they deserved it. The lawyers made the legal system so complex that common sense was thrown out the window and now it takes a highly trained member of the "priest class", as JPZ likes to call them, to navigate us through the maze of legal BS they have created.

I see what you are saying; the police cannot earn the people's respect through good old fashioned rough and tumble brawling anymore so they are forced to demand the respect with nothing to back it up . Instead of hiring tough guys who can take care of themselves, they must hire college educated kids who know more about navigating around the legal minefield to avoid getting themselves sued than they ever knew about winning in a fight.

I would be willing to bet that many, if not most, police officers these days were never even involved in a fight growing up, so they expect to be able to get through life without getting hurt and this is the reason they use unreasonable force on granny. Cops no longer see getting a few bruises and scrapes as just part of the job. They find the idea of themselves getting hurt to be unacceptable and will do anything to avoid situations where they could get hurt. If that means tazing granny or pepper spraying a five year old kid, that is what they will do to avoid any injury to themselves.

Maybe if the lawyers would back off and allow the cops to physically dominate like they used to and be more forgiving of people who gave them a little bit of a scuffle, we would both learn to respect each other again.

reply to post by Skewed


Skewed, your post summed it all up nicely! And semperfortis, if you want examples of police brutality/corruption, just go to recent posts and click refresh.

I have to add that any cop I've ever dealt with has been friendly and reasonable.

Ahhhh

The inevitable "Cop Haters" and the "I'll never call the cops" persona's show up right on schedule..



I do have to thank you all for the laughs.

Understand that I have been hearing the same garbage in real life, not from an anonymous, perfectly safe keyboard in some basement somewhere, for just short of 30 years. It is so predictable and every time exactly the same, it is far more hilarious that any comedy show.

All of the real life ones with more courage then just posting on a forum, inevitably, and I mean 100% of the time, are the first to cry "Where were the police when my brother was shot" or add your own statement they are all identical..

I guess you have to hear the same thing for 30 years for it to be this funny, but trust me it is... Just like all the stories that are obvious exaggerations or just flat out lies.. See above for some good humor..

No there is no handshake, there may be in some of the organizations but as I don't belong to any, I would not know it. There is no favor book or any other crap like that. No quotas or any of the other stuff you are dreaming up to validate your point.

There are currently 750,000 or so officers.. Want to impress someone? Post 200,000 corruption videos, not 6 or 8.....

If all you can find is a dozen or so videos of cops acting badly, that is a pretty good percentage..

reply to post by FortAnthem


Best post I have read on ATS in a long while

FortAnthem gets it

or when i get stopped where do you live, where are you going, where have you been, is that a bag in your car, whats in the bag, why do you need that, where do you work, your id says you live here why are you here. i mean cmon
sorry police in america are a joke and not to be trusted.

Ihave begun to teach my 6 yr old daughter NOT TO TRUST THE POLICE, TELL THEM NOTHING EXCEPT YOUR NAME. the only problem is the brainwashing the get in public schools, to trust them.