Childhood diseases return as parents refuse vaccines, page 6

reply to post by hawkiye

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And the paranoid people will take any crapped spewed forth from the mouths of other paranoid people, who also have no research done.. and fail to actually properly examine any data properly.. Which is almost always here on ATS.

Originally posted by star in a jar
Vaccines need to be safer, basically they can't have any adjuvants added to them to stretch the supply because that is where the majority of the problems come from.

But such premium vaccines cost money and only those who are from the wealthier classes can afford to have the best vaccines for their children, the poorer children get the more dangerous (next to free) vaccines that are loaded with crapola.

This is eugenics.

adjuvants are to stimulate the immune system response. though i think there are safer ones they could use, i'm not sure, but they are not necessarily the same as additives or even preservatives...though that is likely in vaccines as well.

Originally posted by crazydaisy
reply to post by star in a jar

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May I ask what has lead you to believe that poor and wealthy children do not
receive the same vaccine?

for higher price you can have the vaccines split up....the default is fewer shots, but they are combinations of the vaccines in ONE shot. which is harder on the immune system and i mean, for little babies....c'mon.....

but if you pay more you can have them split up, which means less likelihood of negative reaction.


and to the OP:
for real?!? questioning another posters understanding of the immune system when i highly doubt you have a solid grasp on it yourself. am i right?! are you some kind of doctor? i am guessing not...

i understand that some people have chosen what they believe and regardless of what they hear otherwise they will refuse to change their minds. i am one of those people, seeing threads like this and responses like mrsir or whatever their name is (and OP), reinforces my belief that vaccines are not a benevolent force, i'm not sure how bad it actually is. i know the risks, i know those risks are not TYPICAL (just like immunity from a shot isn't ) but they happen. my son had a negative reaction MORE THAN ONCE before i realized exactly what was going on. he was actually having seizure type episodes of tensing up, blue in the face, etc. scary, scary! he is fine now...but the last time it was christmas and he was just listless. it was sad to see. then i started researching causes for his symptoms--and realized upon reading the causes he HAD just gotten his shots. he's never had anything like that since, never really been sick. allergies sometimes. he actually did get whooping cough though he had been vaccinated for it.
google: iansvoice ---anyone who believes vaccines should NOT be a choice...and should be mandatory and those NOT vaccinating are child abusers should look at that site of that little baby that died from the hepB vaccine.

i don't believe vaccines caused the decline of these preventable diseases, i believe the vaccines were pushed out as the disease was in steep decline and attributed the 'eradication' to the vaccine. remember swine flu? by the time they had the vaccine out it was almost literally unheard of for people to have it anymore. thats really just like a microcosm of the larger diseases like polio: www.whale.to...

and even IF the vaccines are the biggest reason people don't die from polio or measles anymore (though most cases of polio is caused by vaccinations) *rolls eyes* the fact that vaccines CAN and sometimes DO cause very serious reactions---like with baby ian, or kids that go deaf, blind, ANY negative reaction---ANY! that should be optional. especially when there is no definitive proof that vaccines fully prevent anyone from getting this "horrible" illnesses.

i see reason for SOME vaccines. tetanus, rabies.....SOME. not HEP B. not HPV. not VARICELLA. NOT EVEN WHOOPING COUGH! sorry, *shrugs* death IS a part of life, even for babies sadly. but it shouldn't come from artificial means MEANT to save lives.

and many of the illnesses are treatable in this day and age--this little boy was in a homeless shelter, not a prime example of your argument, OP.

oh yes, and as Blaine has said---and is common-frickin-sense---adults are spreading whooping cough.
herd immunity means that that kid that cannot get vaccinated is safe because the other kids are
what is it called when the majority of kids that are vaccinated are the ones GETTING these illnesses....

Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by hawkiye

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And the paranoid people will take any crapped spewed forth from the mouths of other paranoid people, who also have no research done.. and fail to actually properly examine any data properly.. Which is almost always here on ATS.

and which is which, as far as you are concerned?

people who choose not to vaccinate are almost ALWAYS more informed than those that do.....they do the research that inspires them not to vaccinate...where else would they get that psychotic idea? the doctor? the news??

Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by hawkiye

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And the paranoid people will take any crapped spewed forth from the mouths of other paranoid people, who also have no research done.. and fail to actually properly examine any data properly.. Which is almost always here on ATS.

Well gee nice facts references and cites... Oh wait you don't have any. I bet you did not even read the page I referred to? Because all the data is from official sources. Yes that is right it is thier own data that proves vaccines don't work, but fools mock in thier ignorance even in the face of overwhelming proof... Sigh!

Shakes head while idiots continue to poison thier children in thier ignorant belief based on nothing but some Pharma reps word.... Big Sigh!

Originally posted by SmokeandShadow
Vaccination is not an inherently bad, I think the issue is the Thiomersal contained within vaccines and the opportunity for "false epidemic" profiting.

Aside from the fact you didn't spell it correctly, most vaccines today don't have it, with the exception of the flu shot (There are rare versions without it but they are difficult to get). So don't get the flu shot, I don't. But most of the other shots have pretty much abandoned Thimerosal, so you can't use that excuse on the shots that don't even have it.

Originally posted by summer5
The worst smallpox disaster occurred in the Philippines, after 10 years (1911-1920) of a compulsory U.S. program which administered 25 million vaccinations to its population of 10 million. The result: 170,000 cases and more than 75,000 deaths from smallpox.

So you quote something that happened 100 years ago as a reason to not get vaccinated today?

If you're worried about smallpox vaccine then don't get it...wait...it's not even on the vaccination schedule, is it? Here's the 2011 schedule I have:

www.acofp.org...

I don't see anything about smallpox on the schedule, because what you're citing as a failure is probably one of the greatest successes of modern medicine. Smallpox-like symptoms were found on

en.wikipedia.org...

mummified body of Pharaoh Ramses V of Egypt. The disease killed an estimated 400,000 Europeans per year during the closing years of the 18th century (including five reigning monarchs), and was responsible for a third of all blindness. Of all those infected, 20–60%—and over 80% of infected children—died from the disease. Smallpox was responsible for an estimated 300–500 million deaths during the 20th century.

After vaccination campaigns throughout the 19th and 20th centuries, the WHO certified the eradication of smallpox in 1979.[13] Smallpox is one of the two infectious diseases to have been eradicated, the other being rinderpest, which was declared eradicated unofficially in 2010 and officially in 2011.

So the disease has been around for 10,000 years, do you think the eradication of smallpox and the vaccinations were just a coincidence?

People were dying from smallpox long before there were any smallpox vaccines

Some estimates indicate case fatality rates of 80-90% in Native American populations during smallpox epidemics.

Are you going to blame those deaths on the vaccine somehow too? The smallpox example you cite seems more like an example of how vaccines work, than how they don't work.

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by mb2591

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As for the OP I have to agree that the anti-vax movement is extremely dangerous. The paranoid irrational scape-goating is unfortunately not likely to stop. Vaccines are to diseases as HAARP is to natural disasters, they are the convenient scapegoat of the frightened, gullible and superstitious.

That's interesting because I always thought it was the paranoid ones that ran to get their babies injected. Paranoid of catching diseases and dying. But they will certainly sign a waiver that clearly states that what is about to be injected into their child can cause injury or death. I tend to think that's dangerous.

As a mother of 3 girls who decided NOT to vaccinate my 3rd child I think this is a bunch of garbage...
I included a page from a CDC report showing your over dramatic increase. I have noticed a difference between my 2 older children and my youngest and will not change my decision period! Have you looked up the stats on the CDC website for all of the adverse affects from these wonderful vaccines? If these conditions were not a result of the vaccine then why in the hell would the CDC payout so much money to all of these claims? The chances of my children getting Polio are considerably lower than all of the awful damages they cause to so many babies and children. If the CDC reported every medication or vaccine truth then the health industry and pharmaceutical companies would be hit hard financially. IT ALL ABOUT THE MONEY, PERIOD!!!

Originally posted by Maslo
How come the parents are allowed to not vaccinate their children even with basic vaccines? This is child abuse in my book. Children should not suffer and die for the stupidity of their parents.

Apparently it depends on the laws of the state:

www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com...

Dr. Todd Hoover, MD - As parents, you are ultimately the ones most affected by the consequences to either vaccinate or not vaccinate your child. You should first determine the exact state law that governs this decision where you live. If there is no provision for a religious or philosophical objection to vaccination, your decision to not vaccinate your child could be viewed as child neglect by the authorities in your state, resulting in direct oversight of the medical care of your child and forced vaccination against your wishes. If your state allows religious or philosophical objection to vaccination, then you have a somewhat difficult choice. After studying the subject in depth, I believe that vaccinations represent the only long-term, relatively effective method of preventing these very serious diseases. Some vaccines are better than others, in terms of efficacy and side effects. All vaccines are stressful for your child and are capable of producing side effects. The relative health and constitution of the child is the single most predictive factor in the likelihood of a side effect occurring. Doctors and vaccine researchers are not inherently evil or misguided, and they constantly strive to find the safest and most effective ways to prevent serious contagious diseases...

vaccine requirements and exemptions in the U.S. are state laws, as the federal government lacks authority to address vaccines for state residents (federal laws do address vaccine requirements and exemptions for immigrants and the military; they may also provide means of avoiding vaccines in the workplace). Contrary to the assertions of some, vaccines are legally required in all U.S. states and territories, but exemptions of one kind or another are also available that at least some citizens in each state and territory may exercise. One’s right to refuse immunizations in the exercise of one’s religious beliefs is a right afforded by both state and federal law (in all but two states—Mississippi and West Virginia)—primarily by way of state codes and the U.S. Constitution’s First and Fourteenth Amendments. So, right off the bat, vaccine religious exemptions necessarily involve a potentially complex mixture of state and federal law. Furthermore, on the state level, there are both statutes and regulations that address vaccine requirements and exemptions, and all of them must be factored in to determine fully one’s rights, and state constitutions may play a role as well.

Parents can be charged with manslaughter for failing to give their child proper medical treatment, but if the child dies from failure to get vaccinated, can they be charged with manslaughter for that? I haven't seen that happen yet. I'm not sure I understand the distinction though. There are some loopholes in the vaccination requirements and if the doctor can certify the child is too weak or sickly to survive the vaccinations, the child can be exempted, so the parents certainly wouldn't be liable in that case. The religious exemption is another matter, however.

reply to post by Thunder heart woman

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I fail to see what's paranoid about trusting well-established medical science that has helped all but wipe out diseases that used to kill by the thousands, if not millions.

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by Thunder heart woman

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I fail to see what's paranoid about trusting well-established medical science that has helped all but wipe out diseases that used to kill by the thousands, if not millions.

Well, I can't help but think there is something wrong with people who would put their child's life on the line, knowing full well that a vaccine could kill them. Growing up on the reservation, I've seen sooo many vaccinated children, parents, and teachers all come down with measles, mumps, pertussis.... My mother in law ran out and got herself an H1N1 vaccine, because she's a teachers aid at the school. And BAM, she came down with H1N1 a month later and nearly lost her life as it went into pneumonia. Children that were vaccinated came down with this as well. My father in law actually cornered the doctor in the hallway at the hospital and got him to admit the vaccine gave her H1N1. Amazing.

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