The human species should develop along with diseases for the betterment/strengthening of our species. Instead, if a person does not accept a poison into their body and risk alternate sicknesses just so that we, as a society, can feel more "in control," that person is labeled as nutty. Such a thing is a horrible and unfunny joke of a rationalization. Although, people should be free to think according to unstable logic.

If round-up resistant plants are any indicator, if super-bugs are any indicator; Nothing beats plain, common wisdom/hard work. Keep yourself sanitary. Eat healthfully. Historically, it is more reasonable to conclude that increased sanitation in personal health and relations, and food/water distribution is the cause of decreased disease rather than vaccines themselves. There are many good studies showing that vaccines are nowhere near the saviors that they are billed as and that social awareness and proactive responses are provably effectual.

It's sad and humorous that those who believe that we are only animals conduct themselves as blind gods, wishing away "evil" while inviting it in, proclaiming wisdom will being permeated by ignorance. The perversion of stupid animals is often sickening to the core and this is a good example. If a person chooses to pretend to be "in control" through vaccines, then they should be allowed to accept such a risk. However, don't complain that others are willing to brave the unknown and accept the consequences. To suggest that not taking vaccines causes disease is ludicrous. Doing so simply returns us to the normal position in human development in which we actually are. More so, the majority of people who do not become sick from a vaccine are protected from the "unclean anti-vaxxers" and their discontent/grumbling is fully and completely misdirected.

What a load of lies, misdirection, poor self-control, and ignorant understanding.


*I am not saying that vaccines are entirely ineffectual. My statements above are simply to contrast the efficacy of the involved ideas in relation to each other. Vaccines should be improved and developed, and I say the same about GMO, so long as they are not used on the population against their will, and are properly tested across many generations. Otherwise, most data is easily shown to be biased and/or incomplete.

Originally posted by kro32

Originally posted by mb2591
You have more of a chance to get sick and/or die from a vaccine then you have if you get no vaccine at all
I urge every one to stay away from vaccines

edit on 16-6-2011 by mb2591 because: (no reason given)

But the vaccine only affects the individual whereas contraction of a contagious disease has the possiblity of affecting millions.

Way to show your selfishness there.

edit on 16-6-2011 by kro32 because: (no reason given)

I had the same perspective as you. Everything changes though, when a brand new family member get's her MMR, then spends two weeks in a vegetative state before expiring as a result.

There's nothing wrong with the concept of vaccination. The problem that the "anti-vaxxers" (as was so eloquently put earlier in the thread) have, is with the practices employed in the manufacture of the vaccines themselves. Don't put anything in the vaccines except the vaccine, and I you'd be amazed at how many "anti-vaxxers" start vaccinating.

Also, loaded statistics do nothing to sway the minds of those who have been influenced by personal experience. Like a mother who had to watch her child spend half of the first four years of life in a hospital ill, only to find immediate and permanent relief by ceasing all vaccinations. Or the schools that report higher numbers of missed days due to flu, the vaccinated student body, than they find in the unvaccinated. Or the parent of a child who was permanently scarred by a severe case of Chicken Pox as a direct result of receiving the vaccination, only to contract the Chicken Pox twice more in the next 3 years. I don't even think the HPV vaccine needs to be brought up...

Originally posted by EmVeeFF
but if the parent vaccinates a child and it dies/becomes brain damaged thats ok, all aslong as YOU dont have some moron stranger give you whooping cough

edit on 16-6-2011 by EmVeeFF because: (no reason given)

The chance of that happening is almost non-existent while the risk of death of the child is many times higher. Playing Russian Roulette with a childs life is parental abuse. I won't back down and I refer you to the gravestones for my evidence.

What is happening is some people are irrationally paranoid and incapable of clear critical thinking and their children pay a price. Those who think the medical industry is trying to kill them are suffering from mental illness and it does no good to be sensitive about that, since it is a fact.

You completely ignore facts in favor of irrationality and paranoia.

When the H1N1 vaccine did not do as the fanatics said it would, how many came back and admitted their error? They just move on to the next delusion.

I have yet to find a pediatrician that will accept new patients who do not vaccinate. Everywhere I have been will not allow you to be a patient if you do not vaccinate or have not been vaccinated.

My nephew who is 2 months old is getting some shots next week. Can you show me research I can show the doctor that could convince him?

Originally posted by Dasher... There are many good studies showing that vaccines are nowhere near the saviors that they are billed as and that social awareness and proactive responses are provably effectual.

... More so, the majority of people who do not become sick from a vaccine are protected from the "unclean anti-vaxxers" and their discontent/grumbling is fully and completely misdirected.

It is easier to tear down than it is to build up, and it is easier to feign control than it is to make sacrifice.

When sicknesses break out, the best way to respond would be to quarantine. Especially with current tech like the internet and political pushes being made towards socialism, this is a form of public health-care that I could support. For example, if a sickness breaks out in an area, subsidize the people under quarantine so that they are able to communicate and carry-on as close to normal as possible. Subsidizing those under quarantine also would act as a balancing measure so that while public health is protected by the quarantine, quarantines would not be abused so as not to waste money on the subsidization. It would need to be monitored by a public/non-profit system independent from larger governments in terms of control, but subsidized without bridling by larger systems for the sake of economic strength (on the condition that the sickness is provably present).

Anyway, it's just a thought.
I understand that people are not in any sort of healthy communion for this to happen soon.
* Likewise, under current policies, vaccines are simply easier than expecting people to sacrifice through self-quarantining, etc. You know, "lowest common denominator."

I got all my vaccines and I'm not dead, sick, or disabled. I must've gotten lucky.

I have not read all the replies (yet), but I need to tell the OP that they are so far off the mark [according to their dr]. I can talk from personal experience. You can take it or leave it, its totally up to you. I will say that I COMPLETELY 100% disagree with childhood diseases returning because parents refuse to vaccinate. We are such a small percentage to begin with, "we" have not caused any disease to re-surface.

I have been kicked out of practices for not vaccinating my children (fine with me). I have had 1/2 my children vaccinated (on a delayed schedule), and the others not vaccinated at all. My first 3 kids were vaccinated. Against my better judgement, but I did it on a very delayed schedule. By my 3rd child, reluctantly I gave an MMR 6 months earlier than I had planned on, because the doc on call flipped out when he had seen that I hadn't had any yet. He threatened me, intimidated me, etc. I caved (I NEVER should have). My 3rd child is now autistic. I have 2 nieces, one who is severely autistic, and one who is mild (from my sister), my brothers son is in the middle and autistic (all after MMR shots). My next 4 children were NEVER vaccinated! They are so much healthier than my (delayed) vaccinated children.

My brother in-law and his wife had there 18 month old vaccinated (on a timely schedule). He was a very happy, bright little boy. Always full of smiles. He died with-in 48 hours of his 18 month vaccines. Sudden fever (like most kids), cranky (again like most), swelling in the injection site)...SUDDEN DEATH!

Remember one thing, this is ONE families history of vaccines. And don't say it is inherited..its NOT. My brother and sister who I spoke of, are adopted, as am I. We are NOT blood related at all. Yet we all have stories of MMR, and autism. My husbands brother had a death...its not like it can't happen, it does all the damn time.

My last question is, seeing that kids all get shots for Chicken Pox now, and my kids who have had zero shots for that, why is it that those vaccinated kids still get chicken pox? I believe it is a different strain going around...my children, who I tell the school to expose to any kid with chicken pox (the vaccinated ones), has never got the chicken pox yet! Go figure....yet the vaccinated kids are still getting the chicken pox.

I think your doc needs to provide you with statistics. How MANY children are we talking about here? How many were/or were not vaccinated? And lastly, you tell your doctor that you will gladly have your child(ren) vaccinated if he will sign a waiver stating that NO HARM will come to them by this vaccination(s), and if any does, he will assume FULL financial responsibility. It PISSES them off every time... because they KNOW the risks and would NEVER sign a paper stating such a thing. Why would YOU as a parent, sign a waiver, excepting responsibility if harm should come to YOUR child? Me personally, not willing to ever take that risk again. I have too much proof, vaccinated vs non, showing the difference in IQ levels and health.

Originally posted by kro32

Originally posted by mb2591
You have more of a chance to get sick and/or die from a vaccine then you have if you get no vaccine at all
I urge every one to stay away from vaccines

edit on 16-6-2011 by mb2591 because: (no reason given)

But the vaccine only affects the individual whereas contraction of a contagious disease has the possiblity of affecting millions.

Way to show your selfishness there.

edit on 16-6-2011 by kro32 because: (no reason given)

Nice edit to attack my character..
One could argue the exact same thing on my side of this debate.. but I'm not going to resort to that

Originally posted by Throwback
I got all my vaccines and I'm not dead, sick, or disabled. I must've gotten lucky.

Yeaaaa cause were saying that 99% of people who get vaccinated have ill effects from it... and your just part of that lucky 1 percentile..
Goddammn I feel like there's a decent sized group of atsers that have some sort of reading disability with the amount of # that people take out of context.

Did anyone ever check out Squalene?
I'M THE PROOF!
Desert Strorm vets are recipients of the first Anthrax shots given to conventional troops.Now you get the adjuvant without the bug,kiss your memories good by.Autism really jumped us lately hasn't?
where do these things come from?

Originally posted by Throwback
I got all my vaccines and I'm not dead, sick, or disabled. I must've gotten lucky.

I had all mine also...depending on what year you were born; do your research. The vaccine schedule has added, not only more doses more often, but more immunizations all together. What use to be 12 immunization for school age children, is now WAY above that. Look at all the kids with ADHD, Aspergers, Autism, etc...back when I was a kid, we didn't have 1/2 or even a 1/4 of these shots they do today. Why is it the USA is the only state that still allow thermisol in our immunizations, and we have the highest death rates and autism spectrum disorders any where? The numbers and statics are out there. Death rates (sids), children with permanent disabilities, autism, spectrum disdorders, etc...do the research, look at the facts. Because you made it past yours, and you are fine, can you really compare with the difference in amounts and kinds of shots given out today? NO, you can't!

this is chilling

I support a parents right to not have their kids vaccinated, but I would also support them being denied public education

I don't want to bury my kids because their classmates parents thought it was OK for their kids to be walking typhoid mary's

you want to put my kids at risk, fine, home school yours