The Bible Is A Forgery

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by leejohnbarnes
Interesting comments about the Gnosis.

1) Re the comment above yours - lineage to Jews is everything - and lineage was important to Christ.

Lineage was why Christ was alive.

If Mary had been accepted as a Jew by the Jews of her region, when she fell pregnant with Jesus she would have been stoned to death or exiled - the fact she wasnt is down to one thing - lineage.

Well, apart from the fact that there's nothing of historical evidence to support your claim, being Jewish does not come from the father, it comes from the mother, so if Mary wasn't Jewish, Jesus wasn't, and he would not be allowed to teach in the Synagogue, among other things.

The Gnosis is within.

Once one achieves the Gnosis - a state of enlightenment where one becomes / merges with Christ - then one does not needs to know passwords to get past the Aeons.

Well, you may believe that, but it isn't what Gnosticism is. After the end of the initial Gnostic Christian movement, there have been occasional attempts to bring it back (most notably in the Nineteenth Century, prior to the texts of Nag Hammadi being recovered,) and claims such as this were made to account for the fact that the secret knowledge had obviously been lost.

Within the confines of the belief system, though, it has no basis, and is actually completely contrary to it. Who needs a Divine Messenger when you knew the answer all along? You're welcome to think it to be true, but you are then not a Gnostic.

1) Re the lineage issue - as I explained - Mary was of the lost Ten Tribes of Israel and though she was Jewish, the Jews of her region and of the Tribe of Judah did not recgonise her as Jewish as she was of scythian / jewish ancestry.

She was not stoned to death as Jewish law dicated when she fell pregnant outside marriage - proof enough.


2) Yet again you misunderstand the Gnosis.

Christ is within all who are Sethians.

The Gnosis was lost, but the re-discovery of the lost Gnostic texts were the kindling that turned the spark of inner knowledge into the fires of wisdom.

The Gnosis was never lost - merely belief in the Gnosis and knowledge of the gnosis was lost and hence the Sethians never knew they had been deprived of it.

They thought adherence to the tenents of Judaism and Christianity equaled spiritual salvation.

Wrong.

Christ came to educate man of the existence of the Gnosis that Jehovah / Yahweh had hidden from man.

He told man what man had been denied - that he was not a slave of Jehovah / Yahweh but that withuin him the seed of God awaited.

The Gnosis is from the Pleroma, hence immortal and timeless.

The Second Coming of Christ in our time was the knowledge that the Gnosis existed and that had been lost due to the church persecuting throughout history all those who became aware of the existence of the Gnosis.

The knowledge had always been there - the Cathars knew it and re-discovered it and hence they had to be destroyed by the Church in the Albigensian Crusade - and it was symbolised by the Holy Grail within Christianity itself.

It has been re-discovered again in our generation and the sons of seth - the scythians - are awakening to it.

A true Gnostic will be able to tell me what the Holy Grail represents - can you ?

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
'God' does not have chosen people, chosen lineages.

If you think that a blood line matters to something of Spirit....then you just proved you understand nothing about wisdom/nature of things of Spirit.

The 12 tribes was not something that concerned Spiritual things...the 12 tribes was about pride, about separation, about ego...which are not attributes of Spirit.

Now...the people that held importance to things like bloodlines, they could of placed emphasis on Jesus for a certain blood line or tribe....but the Spirit does not. Jesus could of cared less about bloodlines....God could care less about bloodlines.

In Spirit, there is only equality because all is 'one'....of 'one' spirit.

This is what gnosis is all about...discerning between the natures of flesh and spirit. Those that place importance on bloodlines, are placing importance to things of flesh.

Unfortunately you are wrong.

The descendants of Seth are the ones who may attain the Gnosis - but that is not a racial group - it is a spiritual community.

en.wikipedia.org...


Sethians are so called for their veneration of the biblical Seth, third son of Adam and Eve, who is depicted in their myths of creation as a divine incarnation; consequently, the offspring or 'posterity' of Seth are held to comprise a superior elect within human society.



The bloodlines issue relates to the lineage of Jesus.

Many would be surprised at the number of Christians who have, indeed, looked way outside the box. In fact, many who are Christians now came out of all those allegedly "enlightened" and "superior" places, read all those books, practiced all those practices, asked all those questions. It's rather insulting and demeaning to presume that people who follow Jesus and worship him as God never knew anything else or lack knowledge or intelligence. This arrogant "more enlightened than you" attitude is most hypocritical, and is just as easily seen as not enlightenment but jumping from the frying pan into the fire.

Once again, the crux of Christian faith is Jesus. He came to reconcile us to God. So those who knew the truth but not the One who is Truth can be easily swayed by appeals to pride in human "wisdom" and "knowledge". This is not at all surprising since Jesus said that the way to destruction is wide and well-populated, but the way of Truth is narrow and sparsely travelled. Jesus also said that there would be those who did many things in his name, but he will respond, "I never knew you".

John 1:8-12--

This was the true Light which illuminates every person coming into the world. But even though he came into the world he made, it didn't recognized him; he came to his own, but they didn't accept him. Yet to those who accepted him by putting their trust in him, he granted the privilege of becoming children of God.

Originally posted by leejohnbarnes

Originally posted by SaberTruth
reply to post by adjensen

 

If you could say all you did and the response is "interesting", methinks your pupil will make you very, very wealthy, due to the fact that enlightenment will never be reached.

You see a shadow, and you call it the sun.

The darkness is your home.

Hmm, Interesting.

nothings wrong with the wisdom portion of gnostics, you can even connect it with traditional christian beliefs and still have a good guide. To know that salvation is christ is all that matters. I think if you are traditional belief or gnosis that goes without saying. Gnosis is more of a enlightned path as well. very much like Asian belief system. Nothing is wrong with it, it can be spun around both ways. I, myself after reading some text have notice that much of the creation and mythos part of the gnosis is difficult to accept 100% as belief.

I am a Jewish/hebrew Essenic traditional christain/catholic with a pinch of gnostic in my belief system. Much of gnostic is way way way way out there as well. It is not hogwash, but I tip toe when reading the writings about what I take in.

Originally posted by leejohnbarnes

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
'God' does not have chosen people, chosen lineages.

If you think that a blood line matters to something of Spirit....then you just proved you understand nothing about wisdom/nature of things of Spirit.

The 12 tribes was not something that concerned Spiritual things...the 12 tribes was about pride, about separation, about ego...which are not attributes of Spirit.

Now...the people that held importance to things like bloodlines, they could of placed emphasis on Jesus for a certain blood line or tribe....but the Spirit does not. Jesus could of cared less about bloodlines....God could care less about bloodlines.

In Spirit, there is only equality because all is 'one'....of 'one' spirit.

This is what gnosis is all about...discerning between the natures of flesh and spirit. Those that place importance on bloodlines, are placing importance to things of flesh.

Unfortunately you are wrong.

The descendants of Seth are the ones who may attain the Gnosis - but that is not a racial group - it is a spiritual community.

en.wikipedia.org...


Sethians are so called for their veneration of the biblical Seth, third son of Adam and Eve, who is depicted in their myths of creation as a divine incarnation; consequently, the offspring or 'posterity' of Seth are held to comprise a superior elect within human society.



The bloodlines issue relates to the lineage of Jesus.

Your pride in earthly matters blinds you from greater truths of Spirit.

Truth, the word, can be found without books. This is gnosis.

You are becoming distracted of the same things that religious people get distracted by....knowledge of earthly things.

To understand things of Spirit...you need no books. To understand things of flesh, of mankinds history, then yes, books come in handy. But be sure to discern....what is important in spiritual light. Bloodlines are not important to things of Spirit.

reply to post by Jordan River

To know that salvation is christ is all that matters.

Bingo! The gospel:

"Christ died according to the scriptures, was buried, and rose again according to the scriptures."

(Corinthians 15)

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
'God' does not have chosen people, chosen lineages.

How many times does the Bible use the phrase, "Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob"? Of course, if you dismiss the whole Bible anyway you can make up any story you like. But the Bible puts a lot of emphasis on physical lineage, and the great theme of the Bible is God's separating out a group of people from the line of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob to prepare the way for the Messiah. But as Paul explained in the NT, the purpose was fulfilled in Jesus so the law and bloodlines no longer apply regarding salvation. Gal. 3:28 says, "In Christ there is no Jew or Greek, no slave or free, no male and female, for you are all one". The OT prepared the way for the NT. Believe God, or believe speculative theories about the spirit world and its rules.

Originally posted by SaberTruth
Many would be surprised at the number of Christians who have, indeed, looked way outside the box. In fact, many who are Christians now came out of all those allegedly "enlightened" and "superior" places, read all those books, practiced all those practices, asked all those questions. It's rather insulting and demeaning to presume that people who follow Jesus and worship him as God never knew anything else or lack knowledge or intelligence. This arrogant "more enlightened than you" attitude is most hypocritical, and is just as easily seen as not enlightenment but jumping from the frying pan into the fire.

Once again, the crux of Christian faith is Jesus. He came to reconcile us to God. So those who knew the truth but not the One who is Truth can be easily swayed by appeals to pride in human "wisdom" and "knowledge". This is not at all surprising since Jesus said that the way to destruction is wide and well-populated, but the way of Truth is narrow and sparsely travelled. Jesus also said that there would be those who did many things in his name, but he will respond, "I never knew you".

John 1:8-12--

This was the true Light which illuminates every person coming into the world. But even though he came into the world he made, it didn't recognized him; he came to his own, but they didn't accept him. Yet to those who accepted him by putting their trust in him, he granted the privilege of becoming children of God.

Oh the irony.

You came here on thisa thread that I started in order to impose your orthodoxy and to rebut my assertions / beliefs.

I offered you an open view of Jesus, and you rejected it in order to 'contain' christ within your own orthodoxy.

Jesus was the light - as he came from the Pleroma - but we all carry the light within us.

I do not reject Jesus - just the churches that preach in his name and who reject the Gnosis and the Bible that makes no mention of the Gnosis.

Here is a short story.

A while back I walked into a christian book shop owned by a church in my town.

I asked if they had any Gnostic texts.

The woman behind the counter gave me a look of evil and venom and just said ' No' and turned her back on me - for it turned out this bookshop only peddled one view of christ and regarded all others as tantamount to heresis.

Such is the mindset of the crucifiers, the witch burners, the heretic killers, the judges of the inquistion, the crusaders and the Cathar killers.

They speak only for themselves - not for Christ.

They are as fanatical and evil as the Islamists.

Originally posted by Jordan River
nothings wrong with the wisdom portion of gnostics, you can even connect it with traditional christian beliefs and still have a good guide. To know that salvation is christ is all that matters. I think if you are traditional belief or gnosis that goes without saying. Gnosis is more of a enlightned path as well. very much like Asian belief system. Nothing is wrong with it, it can be spun around both ways. I, myself after reading some text have notice that much of the creation and mythos part of the gnosis is difficult to accept 100% as belief.

I am a Jewish/hebrew Essenic traditional christain/catholic with a pinch of gnostic in my belief system. Much of gnostic is way way way way out there as well. It is not hogwash, but I tip toe when reading the writings about what I take in.

Follow the spirit within you, there you will find the light.

Originally posted by SaberTruth

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
'God' does not have chosen people, chosen lineages.

How many times does the Bible use the phrase, "Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob"? Of course, if you dismiss the whole Bible anyway you can make up any story you like. But the Bible puts a lot of emphasis on physical lineage, and the great theme of the Bible is God's separating out a group of people from the line of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob to prepare the way for the Messiah. But as Paul explained in the NT, the purpose was fulfilled in Jesus so the law and bloodlines no longer apply regarding salvation. Gal. 3:28 says, "In Christ there is no Jew or Greek, no slave or free, no male and female, for you are all one". The OT prepared the way for the NT. Believe God, or believe speculative theories about the spirit world and its rules.

'The Bible' again eh.

reply to post by leejohnbarnes

Christ is within all who are Sethians.

You are very misled.

Christ is a state of being that we are all to accomplish. Its when one can at their own will, live more for things of spirit then the life of flesh. Its about seeking glory for the spirit within all things, not about glory in being a individual.

You have come across the gnostic readings which like any other, do hold some great spiritual gems in them. But depending on what reasons you seek knowledge, will depend on what you can see.

You concern yourself more with the earthly wisdom's and natures from the readings then the spiritual gems within.

Jesus taught to the ones that could understand, that were ready. It had nothing to do with bloodlines. Only people that live for things of flesh, can not discern this yet.

Originally posted by LeoVirgo

Originally posted by leejohnbarnes

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
'God' does not have chosen people, chosen lineages.

If you think that a blood line matters to something of Spirit....then you just proved you understand nothing about wisdom/nature of things of Spirit.

The 12 tribes was not something that concerned Spiritual things...the 12 tribes was about pride, about separation, about ego...which are not attributes of Spirit.

Now...the people that held importance to things like bloodlines, they could of placed emphasis on Jesus for a certain blood line or tribe....but the Spirit does not. Jesus could of cared less about bloodlines....God could care less about bloodlines.

In Spirit, there is only equality because all is 'one'....of 'one' spirit.

This is what gnosis is all about...discerning between the natures of flesh and spirit. Those that place importance on bloodlines, are placing importance to things of flesh.

Unfortunately you are wrong.

The descendants of Seth are the ones who may attain the Gnosis - but that is not a racial group - it is a spiritual community.

en.wikipedia.org...


Sethians are so called for their veneration of the biblical Seth, third son of Adam and Eve, who is depicted in their myths of creation as a divine incarnation; consequently, the offspring or 'posterity' of Seth are held to comprise a superior elect within human society.



The bloodlines issue relates to the lineage of Jesus.

Your pride in earthly matters blinds you from greater truths of Spirit.

Truth, the word, can be found without books. This is gnosis.

You are becoming distracted of the same things that religious people get distracted by....knowledge of earthly things.

To understand things of Spirit...you need no books. To understand things of flesh, of mankinds history, then yes, books come in handy. But be sure to discern....what is important in spiritual light. Bloodlines are not important to things of Spirit.

You are correct - truth is Gnosis.

But the main book of the Jews and Christians has no mention of the Gnosis - so where is the truth in the Bible ?

I have said three times that bloodlines relate to Jesus's lineage - not the community of the spirit.

Originally posted by SaberTruth

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
'God' does not have chosen people, chosen lineages.

How many times does the Bible use the phrase, "Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob"? Of course, if you dismiss the whole Bible anyway you can make up any story you like. But the Bible puts a lot of emphasis on physical lineage, and the great theme of the Bible is God's separating out a group of people from the line of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob to prepare the way for the Messiah. But as Paul explained in the NT, the purpose was fulfilled in Jesus so the law and bloodlines no longer apply regarding salvation. Gal. 3:28 says, "In Christ there is no Jew or Greek, no slave or free, no male and female, for you are all one". The OT prepared the way for the NT. Believe God, or believe speculative theories about the spirit world and its rules.

The Bible stresses about blood lineage not for the nature of spirit, but because the majority of men lived more for earthly things. It shows you that those men lived for pride and separation.

Just as Egypt placed importance on lineage...so to was such a idea carried over. Just because men in those days got caught up in things of flesh, that the idea of a bloodline could hold any importance for things of Spirit....does not make it so.

Many things are given to us and we must discern them through Spirit.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Jordan River

 

To know that salvation is christ is all that matters.

Bingo! The gospel:

"Christ died according to the scriptures, was buried, and rose again according to the scriptures."

(Corinthians 15)

What scriptures ?

The ones in the Bible.

Did they include the Gnostic Texts ?

No.

Its a circular argument.

reply to post by leejohnbarnes

so where is the truth in the Bible ?

Once one has discovered the nature of Spirit without the books..then they can go through the Bible or any religion and find the nature of Spirit hidden within.

Jesus said, the kingdom is within.

Jesus said, see with the 'one' eye of light.

Jesus used parables which causes one to 'seek' instead of just having a understanding or answer handed to them.

He taught in ways that make people seek...instead of just reading and accepting.

He taught how important it is to offer ones self...so much so, that he offered his life of flesh knowing that it was not the life to fight for or live for.

He did not fight for his life of flesh....and the reason that he did not, has nothing to do with salvation from our sins or blood sacrifice.

The 'gnosis' in the Bible, is in the life of Jesus. Most of the OT is about how the beliefs of different lands and people were made into 'one' belief and the history of how the many gods and many beliefs...emanated into one belief that suited and served a particular group that was without a land. So to their benefit...their belief, made them chosen people, made a chosen land (which are both earthly things), and led to further separation amongst mankind (instead of unity), which is also, clearly not a nature of Spirit. Things of Spirit, lead to harmony...not division.

reply to post by leejohnbarnes

The woman behind the counter gave me a look of evil and venom and just said ' No' and turned her back on me - for it turned out this bookshop only peddled one view of christ and regarded all others as tantamount to heresis.

Perhaps because she or the owners of the bookstore read the first chapter of Galatians?

"I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Which is NOT another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."

Just a quick guess off the top of my head.

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
reply to post by leejohnbarnes

 

Christ is within all who are Sethians.

You are very misled.

Christ is a state of being that we are all to accomplish. Its when one can at their own will, live more for things of spirit then the life of flesh. Its about seeking glory for the spirit within all things, not about glory in being a individual.

You have come across the gnostic readings which like any other, do hold some great spiritual gems in them. But depending on what reasons you seek knowledge, will depend on what you can see.

You concern yourself more with the earthly wisdom's and natures from the readings then the spiritual gems within.

Jesus taught to the ones that could understand, that were ready. It had nothing to do with bloodlines. Only people that live for things of flesh, can not discern this yet.

You misuderstand again - you see the sethians as a race - they are a spiritual community.

And they form a tiny elect amongst mankind - for not all men or women may attain the Gnosis.

The Jews and Christians that do not know the Gnosis are regarded as spiritual people, but not enlightened, and hence are are Pychics and will attain a lower Aeon.

Only the Pneumatics attain the Pleroma.

Sorry but that is what Christ taught.

hermetic.com...

According to Valentinus, the Human Race is divided into three Races corresponding to the three sons of Adam: the Hylic, corresponding to Cain; the Psychic, corresponding to Abel; and the Pneumatic, corresponding to Seth. The idea of these three races is closely paralleled in other systems, notably in the Yogic conception of the Gunas-- Tamas, Rajas and Sattva; the Tantric conception of the three types of aspirants, Pashu-bhâva, Vîra-bhâva and Divya-bhâva; in the Manichaean conceptions of the profane (matter, body), the Hearers (soul) and the Elect (Light, Spirit); in the three men who quested after the Holy Grail-- Bors, Perceval and Galahad; in Bulwer-Lytton's characters Glyndon, Zanoni and Mejnour; and in the Thelemic conception of the Man of Earth, the Lover and the Hermit.

The Pneumatic individual possesses the Sperma Pneumatikon, the Seed of Spirit, and the Knowledge of the Plêrôma. The Pneumatic is destined for salvation from the final destruction of the manifested Universe, regardless of his or her behavior. The Hylic dwells in the utter darkness of materialistic ignorance, and is destined for destruction. The Hylic is entirely composed of illusory, transitory matter, and will vanish along with all the other illusions at the restoration of the Plêrôma. The Psychic is situated half way between the Pneumatic and the Hylic, and possesses free will. Salvation for the Psychic is a matter of choice, of right aspiration, and of faith.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by leejohnbarnes

 

The woman behind the counter gave me a look of evil and venom and just said ' No' and turned her back on me - for it turned out this bookshop only peddled one view of christ and regarded all others as tantamount to heresis.

Perhaps because she or the owners of the bookstore read the first chapter of Galatians?

"I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Which is NOT another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."

Just a quick guess of the top of my head.

The Bible again eh

Seriously, christ prayed that the church would be united together and was worried that the church would be broken up. The church=the body=mankind together as humanity.

We are sitting here and nitpicking our beliefs when we probably have way more in common than you think. Gnostics believe that christ is in themselves, Traditionalist believes that christ died for us.

WE ALL FRAKIN BELIEVE IN CHRIST

Take your peaty differences and leave the thread, because us as a community for christ no matter what denomination, spiritualism, awareness, wisdom, power, aeon, gnosis should live up to his perfection and agree to disagree and love each other truly