Originally posted by TrypToNonymous
What is it to me anymore and who can speak about what they don't know and especially if they know they don't know, they don't know, they know what was
Ok....Ok,Ok. yes it gets like this when you try to explain this subject. Thats why people who know about it dont or cant explain it precicely so they
talk in riddles...pretty much whats going on now.
i tried to make some stories so that people would understand..the balloon story and the laundry story.
right..i believe this is what all the soties in the Bible are basically trying to achieve aswell.
the prodical son, the feeding of the 5,000...and on and on and on.
i could be wrong of course but thats my take
Right..so if i said to accept how things are, is to accept its all just a playground and that sounds nhilistic and depressing aswell.
you wouldnt want to take me seriously, because thats how people are, they want PROOF.
this is the enlightening bit. Can I offer you proof. Yes
Ok...now if you, for whatever reason are even asking the question "what is enlightenment?"
this means your curious..if you ask this question many times, it means your desperate.
Desperate for what? being desparate isnt a good feeling.
its like winstoin churchill saying "we have nothing to fear but fear itself"
very wize words and very zen statement also.
and its a good and practical zen statement because most people understand it.
if they could see that the emotion "fear" was only a response to outside factors but it was still an emotion generated by their own mind, then they
could ultimatley choose, to stop the emotion before it got a grip of them and paralised their body and mind.
basically if you feel fear, you cause the fear to take a grip of yourself.
just like how we laugh at peoples seemingly ridiculous fobias. we can see them from the outside making fools of themselves over something like a small
spider....but they cant see it and cant figure out that its themselves causing the nonsense and over the top reaction, not the spider.
just as asking "what is enlightenment is causing frustration within yourself"..get me? However still this is not a good enough answer or proof because
I am only telling you why it is good to have zen, maybe you understand by this explination anyhow. But an explination is not the proof your after..and
anyway the zen understanding and zen life is not enlightenment, but it is like this...
the zen way of life, is what some monks follow in order to achieve enlightenment...so the follow the path to it, like shoilin monks...see all the
mental control those guys have...thats zen life and mindset. control over onse self, for this reason alone its good to practice zen, nevermind further
enlightenment but there is further enlightenment also.
Im sure you agree zen mind is very useful way to be but maybe you think not so practical down the supermarket or in the nightclub or in your office. i
see this hahaha.
The difference is. Shoilin monk can have zen mind and no ego, as his fellow monks have chosen same path, so no peer pressure in temple...this is
obviously better for all monks and enables them to be only in pure zen mind.
However you can have zen mind too and still be in society, it just means you wear a mask to blend in...This mask is the ego mask, zen is realising its
just a mask, as right now you believe the mask ego, is really your true face and you cling to it.
once you concour your emotional masks, you realise they were all an illusion really, all in your head, then you can chose to play as many characters
as you like, like an actor does.
In different situations in society we behave differently, sometimes we know we are acting, other times we dont realise our behaviour is caused by
internal beliefs, just like believeing in fear....we believe that we are who we appear to be, even our face in the mirror is only a mask of skin.
Zen mind is realisng we are not any opinion, zen mind is empty of opinion and this allows us to be directed by God, or whatever you want to call it to
our true and best destiny, knowing this. is very useful knowledge.
To see yourself like a glass window, nothing on eather side, is clarity. this is zen.
this is still not Proof though.
but hopefully by now you see good sense in zen, good outcomes for you, in this life as a human being.
Now there is alot more good stuff about zen than self control...but you can re read the thread for all that...and even then it is only a small part of
the zen life.
Right. still what is the proof, the defining proof..yes this is the lighbulb over your head..this is enlightenment...well..maybe the lighbulb already
clicked on, whilst reading this..i dunno. Did you feel someting different? Likley not.
but to even understand my explination is good. now the other thing is still no lightbulb. Still not difinitive felling of knowing something is
Yes I get that, I fully understand this, the craving is still unsatisfied. this moment you are chasing is another thing to chase, but the good thing
is you can catch this thing and keep it. this is how enlightenment is different from all other things.
of course to keep it you still have to nurture it in just a few minutes every now and then by stopping to remind yourself you have it, otherwise it is
left in the loft and gets covered in dust and boxes once again.
this is partly why I made this thread, to help me remember my own zen.
its easy to forget in society that you know the most imprortant thing there is to know.
right, all what ive said is still just instructions and a guide, but maybe even now the light clicked on.
you will know it when it clicks, seriously. That moment of "click" thats enlightenment, it means the knowing of the understanding. Just like you know
the floor is beneath your feet and air is in your longues. This is knowing something not just having faith its there. to know is to be enlightened.
most who proclaim the know Jesus are full of 5hit..many know about him, but few know him...if you get my drift...most are just deluded born again
fools, no different to any one and usually far worse than most, far far worse..have you ever met a born again christian ....I have..i told her i was a
satanist and she believed me and freaked out...this is what i mean by an idiot, whe i said it was a joke she still believed me...she was american of
course and no christian by the way...apparently she liked the idea of sme being a satanist if you get my drift...did very unchristian things to
eachother...hahahaha...turned out she was the satanic one and i was the christian...see what i mean..probaly not.
just like im telliing you its a beautiful day outside and you believe me but you cant see it for yourself until you pull the curtains. i understand
this. Ive been there too. So is there more to it than this, well there is more than the zen life, as you can still have everything you once chased,
all the women and money and fame etc....buit its not important thats how zen mind is...right now money, women, fame sounds a great reaon to go for zen
way, but thats the joke, zen mind chases noting, normal ego chases everthing and gets nothing and craves everything always..this is hell.
you wont be chasing it anymore so you will be free from all lust and greed etc, you will feel fine, maybe better than ever knowing the chasing was
just in your head like fear. What happens then is you notice beautiful women come to you...very starange...good things come to you...strange strange
effect...but all the time you must remember zen mind...if you forget it and start clinging to the beautiful woman or things, you lose everything and
your back to your old self and all the old problems.
this is zen in society, having your cake and eating it. You could call it trusting in god either, for if you really trust god all the same effects
happen of zen mind. its the same God. people dont realise this and think god is a man and zen is athism. this is wrong.
But still no lightbulb..no Proof. Ok..so i told you if you have zen mind good things come, life is good but dont try to posses these material things,
let them come and go and enjoy them in the moment, like orgasms, dont try to prolong good moments, let them come and go as they are going to do, you
cant stop the tide. So realising this is enlightenment, still no proof though. no golden ray of sunshine at midnight. are you getting this? good
things come quickly when you dont chase them or try to hold onto them..better a woman holds onto you than vice versa..she is in mental suffering due
to her posessivness, but you are free..get me. You should not try to educate someone like this either but maybe show them that if they wish to be at
peace, they should practice zen meditation. explaining this to people like i have done in this thread is time consuming and difficult..unless your a
now there is still a golden ray of sunlight to be had even after all this good stuff.
this ray is more than the simple zen life...this is likley what you really want. This is touching God.
you get to this place through living the zen life. one day out of the blue a sudden bolt of ivnvisible lightening will hit you through the top of you
head, pure energy..it came from nowhere. It happened to me for only a few seconds.
when this happens you know there is more to everything and you know the little highs you get in life are not even a grain of sand to the feeling that
just corsed through your head. this is what you seek.
to obtain this fleeting monent is something other than what I have been talking about, because if i had known this exxisted I may have chased it and
meditated delibratley to get it, then likley i wouldnt have ever gotten it....but i didnt believe much in anything and had a zen mind by
accident...this monemt of unexpected nirvana just hit me whilst walking, thinking of nothing. After this happened i knew all earthly pleasures were
only a grain of sand in comparison, and the most beautiful women could not give me anything like this feeling ever.
the thing is once you feel it you know it and once you know it your free from the world as in being attached and chasing everything. things come and
go..so what. i dont cry over it or jump up and down like a contestant on american idol, when they pass stage one only to get put in a pit of dispear
at rejection at stage 3....hahahaha...get me now.
detatchment from your emotions, in order to stay calm, balanced and at peace.
you can still enjoy life, just see it for what it is..not getting to high or excieted or too low and depressed over anything.
i dont meditate daily or much at all but i should do, as its easy to forget you know zen and zen is to know God
Obviously some emotions are good for you and the world like love.
but this emotions isnt really an emotion. real love is really somthing else, real ove is living in zen..living in God.
|romantic love is just another emotion and basically its a negative thing, alot of people wont accept this, and think its the main thing in life to
chase after, but the fact they chase it, is part of why its ultimatley bad for you.
real love however is much more powerful and satisfying and wont leave you unless you forget its there up in the attick covered in dust and boxes.
do you understand now?.
people who say they love God know this.
people who say the love life may know this also
people who say the love women, money, power, fame, drugs, fast cars. Are destined to be fvcked.
you can enjoy all the material world but to love it your toast.
edit on 12-5-2011 by splitlevel because: (no reason given)
edit on 12-5-2011 by splitlevel because: (no reason given)