Do you really want to achieve enlightenment?

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
You are the one claiming enlightenment.
So claim it.
Be it.

There is no need to teach others for there are no others.
What is happening is all there is.

youtu.be...

just wanted to add...of course there are "others" is not this message board full of others. We are in flesh bodies are we not, most of us living are still thinking are ego mindset is our real self. its all well and good talking about being one and being nothing etc but this is teaching for the philosophical mind, we still have bills to pay.
to know the philosiphy and accept it whilst also accepting we are bound in material bodies in a material enviroment is the other acceptance.
to accept both realities is zen. to think you can escape the physical world through accepting only the zen philosiphy is not zen at all.
living under a tree, like Buddha is the philosiphy, its not practical though as your going to suffer physically and then menatlly. getting nailed to a cross is the same thing.
Zen is about accepting your life and the world as it is.

reply to post by splitlevel


Well, i suppose if your happy being an a55hole you will be happy to be an a55hole.
Is that the road to enlightenment, just be an a55hole.

There is no argument or opposition from where i see from.
Everything just is.

The words battle, ego, a55hole, spitting are not words of love. They are words that come from fear.
There is nothing to fear or fight.

You are fighting with words on a screen.
I am dancing with them, they are dancing with me.
Together we make the dance and the music.
There is enjoyment.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


Anyhow Ive enjoyed the argument, the ego you know. your like a dog chasing its tail, except you caught it and bit down hard and cant let go, lock jaw, i think haha. maybe if you spit it out you will find your tail wont hurt so much and you can go fur a run in the park instead.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by splitlevel

 

Well, i suppose if your happy being an a55hole you will be happy to be an a55hole.
Is that the road to enlightenment, just be an a55hole.

There is no argument or opposition from where i see from.
Everything just is.

The words battle, ego, a55hole, spitting are not words of love. They are words that come from fear.
There is nothing to fear or fight.

You are fighting with words on a screen.
I am dancing with them, they are dancing with me.
Together we make the dance and the music.
There is enjoyment.

edit on 11-5-2011 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

I sense my words offended you. did I not call myself "my ego" the same things? yet your offended. i only offended your ego. if you didnt cling so tight to it there would be no offence taken. you imply i am afraid of a computer screen with words on it....you think. i pulled at your mask but didnt dislodge it from your face, unfortunatley.



Itisnowagain..remember the story i posted about the nhilist and zen master..i said nhilist kept asking zen master questions, continuing to ask questions...or debate...is because the nhilist was searching for an answer without realising what was driving his persistant questioning.

if you are content in your life Itisnowagain, then you have no more need to ask why? that is the point.
If you are content, then I am happy for you..I am content...in myself...
that doesnt mean everyone thinks im a saint, some may have a much better opinion than me thatn others...but i dont delibratley hurt anyone out there and do what i can to help, when asked.

as i said contentedness is all there is...not extreme euphoria...we know thats what people want in life...it doesnt exist
the chasing it is the dilusion and caused the trouble for people.

getting tricked and mislead into thining ther is more than the simple contentment of the simple life.
this trick or maze is full of short lived euporias which lead people to chase those feelings constantly, and cause addictions, frustations and a living hell in alot of cases.

Short term pleasures are like orgasms, you cant make them last indefinatley. the dillusion is that somehow we can make those sensations last, which causes "motivation" to be a success in life.

its all aload of B.S. it suckers you in like your first shot of smack.



if

reply to post by splitlevel


I am not offended in any way. I do think you are slightly deluded to what enlightenment means though.
But this is no concern for me.
You claim that you are an a55hole. If you see yourself as that then you see the world as that.
The world is a mirror of yourself. If you strongly believe that the world is an a55hole you will treat it as such.
You think everyone is an a55hole and that they should change.
But look who is trying to teach them.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by splitlevel

 

I am not offended in any way. I do think you are slightly deluded to what enlightenment means though.
But this is no concern for me.
You claim that you are an a55hole. If you see yourself as that then you see the world as that.
The world is a mirror of yourself. If you strongly believe that the world is an a55hole you will treat it as such.
You think everyone is an a55hole and that they should change.
But look who is trying to teach them.

yet you still debate with an a55hole.
I believe it was Dirty Harry who said the very zen statement
"A55hl0les are like opinions, everyone has one"

you could say its one of the hats I wear
i believe the term is "A55 Hat" haha
If you cant laught of yourself you dont have it

reply to post by splitlevel


I am sure you are not an a55hole, this has never been my assumption.
I do not see the need for judging and attacking.
I would like to share the clarity also.
Yet you seem to be the authority and judge.
This is good zen and this is not.
All is welcome in truth.

Enlightenment is not a tradition called zen.
It is alive, it is life itself.

reply to post by splitlevel


I love you splitlevel.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by splitlevel

 

I am sure you are not an a55hole, this has never been my assumption.
I do not see the need for judging and attacking.
I would like to share the clarity also.
Yet you seem to be the authority and judge.
This is good zen and this is not.
All is welcome in truth.

Enlightenment is not a tradition called zen.
It is alive, it is life itself.

i called myself an a55h0le...dont you get that...its not big deal...im no bigger an a55h0le than most people...
i can accept this and know that this a55hat isnt permanantly glued to my head.
its just a mask to express things, sometimes I express things, that I know will make poeple percieve as an a55h0le or argumentative pr1ck.
In these situation, I know what i am.
its something I choose to be in order to rattle some cages.
i used to rattle everyone cage without realising the a55hat was stuck to my head. i did it for no other reason than to be champion argument winner in all pointless subjects, to fill my ego hat into an enormous sack of knowing i was right about everything, i carried this big black sack hat everywhere, pissing everyone off, including myself, but couldnt see my sack as it was visible to everyone but me, hanging down from my head and dragged out on the floor, so big was it.
now i only rattle peoples cages that are asking me to rattle them, in order to shake them loose from themselves and come to realise
they all have a ridiculouse hat of one discription or another glued to there head...its been stuck on so many years they didnt realise it was a hat and though it was part of their head instaed.



We all have ego, but we just need to see it for what it is. thats all I was ever trying to express but it is a difficult task .

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by splitlevel

 

I love you splitlevel.

i love you too.

reply to post by splitlevel


I see. You are Zen bitch slapping them.
I get it now.

If you like to zen bitch slap, you will enjoy being zen bitch slapped.
Paul Hedderman is the king of zen bitch slap, he has a site online you might like called zenbitchslap.com
Here is a youtbe vid to see if you like what he has to say:

youtu.be...

reply to post by Itisnowagain


I may check that later as I have physical errons to do in the physical world haha.
I am curious about you, age, sex location etc but it would ruin the mystery haha.
i like mysteries they are alot more fun than knowing.
haha
Get me now.

reply to post by split level


Even when we think we know, we only think we know.
It is still a mystery but with labels attached.
The labels are thoughts.
Remove thought and what is there?

This.

What is this?

A mystery.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


I used to argue about everything and it got me nowhere.
Now i argue about nothing and it gets me somewhere.
I cant lose when i argue about nothing as there is clearly nothing to argue about
the argument may enlighten my opponent.
the act of sparring helps me to remember why i choose to forget.
this is zen exorcise for me.
good medicine.
as even when you gain zen mind your forget it easily, when living with people.
So this sparring match is good zen medicine.
this is why I enjoy arguing and you enjoy it to.
We both win but we both can argue the same point for ever more.
this is the kind of woman i would find alot of fun...hahahah
the one who knows Im right and she is also right.
That would make a good partner indeed, a fun sparring partner, shadow boxing.

reply to post by splitlevel


If I philisopically box with someone who knows it all. they will batter me and dance with ego joy holding the world title over their heads, whilst my battered ego body lies on the canvas. then they feel me tap them on the shoulder from behind, they turn around and get knocked out cold.
the truth is knowing you know nothing and this mind will always beat ignorance.
unless the guy is bigger than you hahaha.

If anyone wants to know what real LOVE is then I will try to explain that aswell.
so far we have gone from
innocence to identity and ego-
to realising ego is just a mask and tool for expression and communication-
that god is everywhere, just like the good book says-
thats peace of mind is the starting point and the root to contentedness-
thats nhilism is living in the belief you know and accept that darkness is all there, so you live in it.
that clarity is knowing, not just thinking, but knowing you know nothing.

now if you want to discuss further LOVE, this most misinterprited of things then I can go into this also.
like I said the discussion is good medicine for the mind and ego. may aswell have a healthy mask than an ugly one.

let me know and i will continue...
that would be another thread

Enlightenment...Enlightenment?

What is it to me anymore and who can speak about what they don't know and especially if they know they don't know, they don't know, they know what was achieved?

-Non

Originally posted by TrypToNonymous
Enlightenment...Enlightenment?

What is it to me anymore and who can speak about what they don't know and especially if they know they don't know, they don't know, they know what was achieved?

Ok....Ok,Ok. yes it gets like this when you try to explain this subject. Thats why people who know about it dont or cant explain it precicely so they talk in riddles...pretty much whats going on now.
i tried to make some stories so that people would understand..the balloon story and the laundry story.
right..i believe this is what all the soties in the Bible are basically trying to achieve aswell.
the prodical son, the feeding of the 5,000...and on and on and on.
i could be wrong of course but thats my take
Right..so if i said to accept how things are, is to accept its all just a playground and that sounds nhilistic and depressing aswell.
you wouldnt want to take me seriously, because thats how people are, they want PROOF.
this is the enlightening bit. Can I offer you proof. Yes

Ok...now if you, for whatever reason are even asking the question "what is enlightenment?"
this means your curious..if you ask this question many times, it means your desperate.
Desperate for what? being desparate isnt a good feeling.
its like winstoin churchill saying "we have nothing to fear but fear itself"
very wize words and very zen statement also.
and its a good and practical zen statement because most people understand it.
if they could see that the emotion "fear" was only a response to outside factors but it was still an emotion generated by their own mind, then they could ultimatley choose, to stop the emotion before it got a grip of them and paralised their body and mind.
basically if you feel fear, you cause the fear to take a grip of yourself.
just like how we laugh at peoples seemingly ridiculous fobias. we can see them from the outside making fools of themselves over something like a small spider....but they cant see it and cant figure out that its themselves causing the nonsense and over the top reaction, not the spider.
just as asking "what is enlightenment is causing frustration within yourself"..get me? However still this is not a good enough answer or proof because I am only telling you why it is good to have zen, maybe you understand by this explination anyhow. But an explination is not the proof your after..and anyway the zen understanding and zen life is not enlightenment, but it is like this...
the zen way of life, is what some monks follow in order to achieve enlightenment...so the follow the path to it, like shoilin monks...see all the mental control those guys have...thats zen life and mindset. control over onse self, for this reason alone its good to practice zen, nevermind further enlightenment but there is further enlightenment also.
Im sure you agree zen mind is very useful way to be but maybe you think not so practical down the supermarket or in the nightclub or in your office. i see this hahaha.
The difference is. Shoilin monk can have zen mind and no ego, as his fellow monks have chosen same path, so no peer pressure in temple...this is obviously better for all monks and enables them to be only in pure zen mind.
However you can have zen mind too and still be in society, it just means you wear a mask to blend in...This mask is the ego mask, zen is realising its just a mask, as right now you believe the mask ego, is really your true face and you cling to it.
once you concour your emotional masks, you realise they were all an illusion really, all in your head, then you can chose to play as many characters as you like, like an actor does.
In different situations in society we behave differently, sometimes we know we are acting, other times we dont realise our behaviour is caused by internal beliefs, just like believeing in fear....we believe that we are who we appear to be, even our face in the mirror is only a mask of skin.
Zen mind is realisng we are not any opinion, zen mind is empty of opinion and this allows us to be directed by God, or whatever you want to call it to our true and best destiny, knowing this. is very useful knowledge.
To see yourself like a glass window, nothing on eather side, is clarity. this is zen.
this is still not Proof though.
but hopefully by now you see good sense in zen, good outcomes for you, in this life as a human being.
Now there is alot more good stuff about zen than self control...but you can re read the thread for all that...and even then it is only a small part of the zen life.
Right. still what is the proof, the defining proof..yes this is the lighbulb over your head..this is enlightenment...well..maybe the lighbulb already clicked on, whilst reading this..i dunno. Did you feel someting different? Likley not.
but to even understand my explination is good. now the other thing is still no lightbulb. Still not difinitive felling of knowing something is right.
Yes I get that, I fully understand this, the craving is still unsatisfied. this moment you are chasing is another thing to chase, but the good thing is you can catch this thing and keep it. this is how enlightenment is different from all other things.
of course to keep it you still have to nurture it in just a few minutes every now and then by stopping to remind yourself you have it, otherwise it is left in the loft and gets covered in dust and boxes once again.
this is partly why I made this thread, to help me remember my own zen.
its easy to forget in society that you know the most imprortant thing there is to know.
right, all what ive said is still just instructions and a guide, but maybe even now the light clicked on.
you will know it when it clicks, seriously. That moment of "click" thats enlightenment, it means the knowing of the understanding. Just like you know the floor is beneath your feet and air is in your longues. This is knowing something not just having faith its there. to know is to be enlightened. most who proclaim the know Jesus are full of 5hit..many know about him, but few know him...if you get my drift...most are just deluded born again fools, no different to any one and usually far worse than most, far far worse..have you ever met a born again christian ....I have..i told her i was a satanist and she believed me and freaked out...this is what i mean by an idiot, whe i said it was a joke she still believed me...she was american of course and no christian by the way...apparently she liked the idea of sme being a satanist if you get my drift...did very unchristian things to eachother...hahahaha...turned out she was the satanic one and i was the christian...see what i mean..probaly not.
just like im telliing you its a beautiful day outside and you believe me but you cant see it for yourself until you pull the curtains. i understand this. Ive been there too. So is there more to it than this, well there is more than the zen life, as you can still have everything you once chased, all the women and money and fame etc....buit its not important thats how zen mind is...right now money, women, fame sounds a great reaon to go for zen way, but thats the joke, zen mind chases noting, normal ego chases everthing and gets nothing and craves everything always..this is hell.
you wont be chasing it anymore so you will be free from all lust and greed etc, you will feel fine, maybe better than ever knowing the chasing was just in your head like fear. What happens then is you notice beautiful women come to you...very starange...good things come to you...strange strange effect...but all the time you must remember zen mind...if you forget it and start clinging to the beautiful woman or things, you lose everything and your back to your old self and all the old problems.
this is zen in society, having your cake and eating it. You could call it trusting in god either, for if you really trust god all the same effects happen of zen mind. its the same God. people dont realise this and think god is a man and zen is athism. this is wrong.
But still no lightbulb..no Proof. Ok..so i told you if you have zen mind good things come, life is good but dont try to posses these material things, let them come and go and enjoy them in the moment, like orgasms, dont try to prolong good moments, let them come and go as they are going to do, you cant stop the tide. So realising this is enlightenment, still no proof though. no golden ray of sunshine at midnight. are you getting this? good things come quickly when you dont chase them or try to hold onto them..better a woman holds onto you than vice versa..she is in mental suffering due to her posessivness, but you are free..get me. You should not try to educate someone like this either but maybe show them that if they wish to be at peace, they should practice zen meditation. explaining this to people like i have done in this thread is time consuming and difficult..unless your a zen master...hahaha.
now there is still a golden ray of sunlight to be had even after all this good stuff.
this ray is more than the simple zen life...this is likley what you really want. This is touching God.
you get to this place through living the zen life. one day out of the blue a sudden bolt of ivnvisible lightening will hit you through the top of you head, pure energy..it came from nowhere. It happened to me for only a few seconds.
when this happens you know there is more to everything and you know the little highs you get in life are not even a grain of sand to the feeling that just corsed through your head. this is what you seek.
to obtain this fleeting monent is something other than what I have been talking about, because if i had known this exxisted I may have chased it and meditated delibratley to get it, then likley i wouldnt have ever gotten it....but i didnt believe much in anything and had a zen mind by accident...this monemt of unexpected nirvana just hit me whilst walking, thinking of nothing. After this happened i knew all earthly pleasures were only a grain of sand in comparison, and the most beautiful women could not give me anything like this feeling ever.
the thing is once you feel it you know it and once you know it your free from the world as in being attached and chasing everything. things come and go..so what. i dont cry over it or jump up and down like a contestant on american idol, when they pass stage one only to get put in a pit of dispear at rejection at stage 3....hahahaha...get me now.
detatchment from your emotions, in order to stay calm, balanced and at peace.
you can still enjoy life, just see it for what it is..not getting to high or excieted or too low and depressed over anything.
i dont meditate daily or much at all but i should do, as its easy to forget you know zen and zen is to know God
Obviously some emotions are good for you and the world like love.
but this emotions isnt really an emotion. real love is really somthing else, real ove is living in zen..living in God.

|romantic love is just another emotion and basically its a negative thing, alot of people wont accept this, and think its the main thing in life to chase after, but the fact they chase it, is part of why its ultimatley bad for you.
real love however is much more powerful and satisfying and wont leave you unless you forget its there up in the attick covered in dust and boxes.

do you understand now?.

people who say they love God know this.

people who say the love life may know this also

people who say the love women, money, power, fame, drugs, fast cars. Are destined to be fvcked.
you can enjoy all the material world but to love it your toast.

remember this.
if i say there is more than the zen life..as in proof of god, because you can reach a euporic bolt of lightning in your head.
What does that matter...for all i know I could have hallucinated the whole thing.
Who cares...this isnt the point and fleeting ecxtasy isnt improtant.
chasing this would be missing the point. plus a 5 second hit isnt worth chasing anyhow.

the only thing worth having is peace of mind
you cant live life without it
chasing things, even God is stupid and counter productive
It draws you away from piece and stability

The joke is peace of mind is what we all need, nevermind desiring "truth".
peace of the mind is the truth
This is the main point ive tried to explain

We can all reach this point and its the only experience worth having, because without this peace of mind as our foundation
we cant build fvck all else on top of it
we cant enjoy life without it.

this is the whole point
dont dillude yourself thinking you can become a living ghost, full of supernatural powers
or some 5hi7
thats only chasing yet another idea and not enlightenment

the real enlightenment is easy to achieve, but you wont believe its easy, so you read a huge thread to make it hard for yourself because only something big..or huge...like you believe enlightenment is can be figured out after years of study or journeying to tibet.
this is rubbish
and its yet another belief
fvck beliefs

the only truth is truth not a belief

do you believe you hand is attached to your arm or do you know its there...this is the difference between belief and truth
people who say they believe or have faith in god, dont know God, and live in dillusional faith and fear they may be wrong...this is not peace of mind but the opposite no matter what many of these "believers" state

So know this as this is absolutley true..

The sky is always clear and blue, always when the sun it up in the daytime...this is absolutley true.
the only reason it doesnt always appear to be clear and blue is because its obscured by clouds.
these clouds are obscuring your beautifully clear mind.
these cloudy thoughts opinions assumptions and beliefs are only illusions blocking the real you

this is zen.
to know this truth is to realise enlightenment
to know this is the truth is to know God and to live in God.

there is no more to it than that,

once you realise this. all the answers are there, without any cloudy questions blocking their path to you.

you had the answer all the time, just couldnt see it for the clouds in your head,.

if you aint clicked on by now...well i dont know

reply to post by splitlevel


Splitlevel have you heard of non duality or Advaita Vedanta?
I recommend Tony Parsons he is very straight talking.

There is a video called 'What is Non Duality' on youtube.
I have tried to post the links but it won't let me.