Do you really want to achieve enlightenment?

reply to post by gentledissident


How are we all the same? Humans and life may be classified in similar ways, and humans may be of the same breed, but everyone really is different despite that fact. You and I do not share the same eye color, hair color, facial features, relatives, etc, etc.

Ultimately I do agree with you that everybody has different experiences, but even those experiences can usually be shared and are usually similar when you get to the basic understanding of a particular experience and the feelings involved in the experience.

Originally posted by arbitrarygeneraiist You and I do not share the same eye color, hair color, facial features, relatives

Those are superficial differences.

Originally posted by arbitrarygeneraiistexperiences can usually be shared and are usually similar when you get to the basic understanding of a particular experience and the feelings involved in the experience.

There are multitudes of situations. There are similar mechanics. Our unique experience gives us our personal symbolism. We are our own self help book. However, we tend to look outside ourselves.

reply to post by gentledissident


All in all it can be said that everyone is similar yet everyone is still different. Superficial differences are still differences nonetheless. I suppose it depends on how you're looking at the similarities or differences.

The psychology of people can be pretty similar at the basic level. Everyone laughs, cries, smiles, has good days, bad days, etc, so in that sense self help books can be helpful to people considering that anyone who reads them share a common interest with a common goal in mind.

Sometimes I like to compare a person's mental and spiritual pursuits to that of a personalized dietary/nutritious regimen and exercise regimen that a person will use to become healthy and fit.

While a person's bodily functions and basic physical traits might be similar, people do have different body types and whatnot that make the same generic workout and dietary plans incapable of working for everyone.

However, health books help that person to understand the basics of what they need to look into in order to achieve the result that they want. Same can be said for things of a metaphysical and spiritual nature such as achieving enlightenment.

There are books, texts, documentaries, etc that exist to help a person become exposed to some of the things that can aid them in becoming enlightened. However, it is up to the individual to discover their own personal path that leads them to the so-called enlightened state.

Sometimes people fall into things like meditation naturally, other times people have to read about it and the results that can be achieved through meditation as well as other disciplines in that same school before they exercise themselves into action.

Self-help books and other such new age texts are helpful in a very generic way because it introduces a person with a busy life to something that was previously out of their perception.

reply to post by splitlevel


Hi Splitlevel,

What is the benefit of enlightenment?

Why pursue or accept clarity/Reality?

Is a deluded drunk sex addict holding back Reality?

If i am communicating with you in delusion than Where are you?

As truth you first deluded yourself, you became separated, now you experience yourself as an awakened part of the whole. That is neat.

But there is a whole where no parts exist.

You cannot integrate what is not real into what is Real. In Reality, nothing exists but Truth. So we are not in Reality. We are not enlightened.. Unless we believe enlightenment is simply a realization of our duality.

This conversation is not taking place in Reality. In any way.

The truth is, if you do end up reading some books about "enlightened" masters you may find out that some of them weren't so enlightened. And if your ego allows, you may develop a faith that there is one Truth who has and will and is manifest in this delusion and if you don't literally become or realize yourself as that Truth then you are not it.

That one truth rules this delusion. Because this delusion/non-reality is born of it. And the truly enlightened one can walk on water, raise the dead, walk through walls, destroy the earth, end the delusion. No laws exist in fantasy land except for the deluded. So if you are fully associated to what is real you will see that because this delusion exists YOU are still creating it. Why? Why then promote enlightenment? Or ponder the choice of some to remain deluded, when you yourself,as awakened oneness silently participate in the creation of the delusion?

Who has learned to use your ego? To play the game? Something that has no need for it? Something that cannot make itself untrue? It is good to associate entirely with what is Real. But as you do, your ego will not exist. Your ego will be a shadow for people that cannot see what is real when they look at you.


Peace!

Originally posted by splitlevel
Ok. its going round in circles now but as far as i see empathy/love is the true self. isnt this the classical teaching. everything else ontop of empathy, the emotions you mention are counter to empathy...your emotions generally override your empathy for others. if your now going to say you feel empathy for some people and not others then that isnt what Jesus/buddha said. your supposed to feel empath for everyone, people judged good and bad by society and people who have done you wrong. Jesus loves sinners most remember. So i disagree with your assesment. Once you see through the delusion yourself, you understand why people behave like idiots, not everyone but a lot of people. then you can forgive people for their behaviour...let things go and move on. That doesnt mean forgining people is letting them back into your life to damage you. That would be stupidity not forgivness .

edit on 9-5-2011 by splitlevel because: (no reason given)

edit on 9-5-2011 by splitlevel because: (no reason given)

In worldly enlightenment, Empathy is almost selfishness. Because Buddha, in the state that he attained, may have realized that despite his own personal freedom from delusion, THE delusion continued. His plan was to wake EVERYONE up so that the delusion (and suffering) would end. I don't mean mental delusion. I mean the whole of separated non-reality (heaven, earth, planets, people, dimensions, time etc) . That is the scary thing to accept. Enough to encourage the delusion - What if it all ends! NOOOO i won't ever get to have anal sex with that girl! I may never drive that car! I have two mdma pills left!

The deluded are getting restless. Yes we are happy that Truth's creation was apparently an act of love.. but we are a bit frustrated with the lack of momentum we've been able to muster up as a WHOLE (pun intended) to permanently end time and non-reality, and return as one in realization of our wholeness as one.

The only tool we have is Love. Which is God. Which is Truth. But i think the deluded have a trick up their sleeves. Having realized that non-Reality cannot exist in what is True, we (our egos) have opted to be destroyed, rather than coming together in a delusion dissolving LOVE FEST (world peace leading to Oneness). It is pre-ordained. We have all agreed. This delusion will end in 2012.. December whatever.. unless some SUPER egos (Satan, Anti-Christ) are successful.. but we all know they lose in the end.. But egos do love drama!

Peace!

reply to post by splitlevel

An ancient zen story I just made up. Man gets lost in forest during a quest to find enlightenment, and comes across an old ancient enlightened dude/master sitting under a tree, and ask some questions.

Man: what is enlightenment?
Enlightened dude: He who walks new paths, walks alone.

Man: Um ok, but what is enlightenment?
Enlightened dude: Why nothing more but seeing your box that you call your world more clearly.

Man: Again I ask what is enlightenment?
Enlightened dude: Nothing more then a word insinuating on a description of a box that does not exist.

Man: OK no really what is enlightenment?
Enlightened dude: A critical stage of change in the path of life, like from a Caterpillar to a butterfly, or in your case from being lost to finding "the way", as you will eventually see.

Man: Quit messing around, what is enlightenment?
Enlightened dude: Ok Ok enlightenment is like having your cake and eating it to.

Man: So really your not going to tell me what enlightenment is?
Enlightened dude: Enlightenment is a different answer that makes no sense for every question that you have.

Man: You know I am starting to think you don't know what enlightenment is?
Enlightened dude: Good at least your starting to think.

Man: So your not going to tell me what enlightenment is?
Enlightened dude: I could go on with the answers, but unfortunately as you can see I am busy doing nothing.

Man: Can you at least tell me how to get to the nearest town, you see I am a little lost?
Enlightened dude: You see this dirt path your standing in, well just follow it till you reach a sign with arrows and writings on it pointing you in the direction of towns. See told you that you will find "the way"

The End.

reply to post by splitlevel


I want a refund....

sl, i have not seen an answer to my earlier query-------------

sl, "what is the experience, if you don't mind me asking, of anyone that spends time in your company? can they feel what you have realized?"

would you care to oblige", thankyou

Originally posted by gentledissident
splitlevel, how can you blend in? I usually find myself being the entertainer to my peers. Those still bound by themselves are in awe of my abilities.

Those I have met who have broken free of themselves, are at the slave level with me. You'd think we'd be the ones in control. Those in control banter with the other slaves, but avoid us. This may be fear on a subconscious level. It may be an inability to relate, as I've discovered that those in power are tied to cultural memes and social clubs. Of course, If i were in control, I'd free the slaves.

edit on 9-5-2011 by gentledissident because: (no reason given)

Thnks for your post.
first i just want to make it clear that i do not think I am any different from anyone else and that is what I consider the truth. i know it likley comes off completley the opposite way and that I am saying I am different, when I say I have clarity. what i am saying is I see clearly we are all the same, we just think we are all different and "unique", this mentality only causes mental suffering ....Id rather not use the trem enlightened but i wanted to draw those people in who are seeking it, so I used the word because the word is the beginning of understanding when one person communicates with another person, so ive no choice but to use words, as just like Id rather not use the word God, it has too many misunderstandings behind it and beliefs attached to it and if I use the word God, then someone will always have a philosiphy attached to that word and then get offended if "my God" isnt the same as their God, and so it goes. i see on this thread the same thing with the word enlightenment, the fact I can detect some people are getting pissed about how I use that word, just illustrates my point, so i may aswell say there is no word for what i realised and then nobody would find offence haha but they would only think i am a completly pretentious ahole, even more than they likley aready do, which I admit I am, in this instance haha and if i used no words then this screen would be blank, but isnt that what I am trying to say, but even blankness doesnt describe "the wunderstanding"...so maybe some people will get what I am on about and others will still hold on to their belief systmes, no matter how "awake" they think they are... if I say I dont know what god is but its clear to that god is everything, but is God also an indipendant personality, who decides on your fate? to many people "he" or even "she" is this personality. Yet even the Old testimant does not describe God, but they had to use the word God to fill in the blank spaces. this is how the word enlightenment is, but dont confuse enlightenment with god, enlightenment is only understanding, god is something else.
So there is a blank space and people use a word to fill it, this is how people are, but zen accepts the blank space as it is. if there were no name for a shark, it would remain a mysterious sea monster, naming it takes a lot of its power away and by some extent gives us power over it. This is how it is with the word "God".
But we know what a shark is, we have studied it and so it is fair to name it. but we cant study god or know God, yet when people put a name to it...the name draws opinions and opinions mean divisions, Islam v christianity etc, but same god.
We can all agree on nothingness though...no. A blank piece of paper or perhaps darkness. What is nothingness?
you cant know nothingness, yet we have described it as a word.
who knows nothingness? nobody. Who knows God? nobody
See we may be approaching something here now.
yet it seems empty and depressing to say god and nothingness are the same.
however nothingness is not what you may think it is, like I said it cant be darkness becuse we can describe darkness.
We cant describe nothingness in words, other than saying nothingness is to be devoid of everything but our senses cant comprehend nothingness, as even empty space is full of darkness and darkness is darkness, not nothingness.
This has to mean nothing and God are the same thing.
as we can comprehend neither.
this is the zen realiseation.
that nothingness is God and God is everything. eeven big bang theory states everything came from nothingness, but even the scientists who say nothingness cant describe what it is, yet the same scientists deny the existance of God, haha, see what I mean?
This realiseation is knowing that we are all the same thing, living in a dilusion.
then we have conciousness..some scientists say that this is also an illusion, but I would say they confuse consiousness with ego and the thinking mind.
i believe consiousness is real but again we cannot describe it.
We possess it but cannot describe it, nor explain it.
So this is the second realisation and a further step.
We posess something we cannot describe/measure/or understand in words. I am not talking about ego or personality but consiousness.
So now we cannot describe three things
nothingness
God
consiousness
yet we posess conciousness.
Now if according to the process of illimination this is how things are. we can then look at religion for its take on things, to measure this understanding against what religious people say is the truth.
"God is everywhere"
"God is our father"
Ok so this can be understood as conciousness.
if God is our father, then we must childeren of God, the all knowing God beyond our comprehension, the all seeing eye.
if we are childeren of God then we must share something in common with our father.
What do we share? Ego. No that cant be the answer, yet people base there lives around it.
We must share conciousness, that is what we the childeren have in common with God and everyliving thing.
where as we share matter with ever physical thing we share conciousness with every living thing, possible even plants etc.
just like a river and a lake have water in common, its the same water in different places and is interchangable.
this must be God.
in zen meditation once you escape thinking because thinking is ego, then you try to escape darkness and you escape light and all your percetions and sences, you may be able to reach conciousness..or God.
This efford to empty the mind of everything, until there is nothing, nothing is God. nothing is pure. the people who have connected to the unknowable, decided it was so important for everyone else to realise this god. jesus died knowing this God, as physical death was trivial in comparison.
but this is the step beyond "enlightenment"
this is known as nirvana.

Originally posted by rwfresh
reply to post by splitlevel

 

Hi Splitlevel,

What is the benefit of enlightenment?

Why pursue or accept clarity/Reality?

Is a deluded drunk sex addict holding back Reality?

If i am communicating with you in delusion than Where are you?

As truth you first deluded yourself, you became separated, now you experience yourself as an awakened part of the whole. That is neat.

But there is a whole where no parts exist.

You cannot integrate what is not real into what is Real. In Reality, nothing exists but Truth. So we are not in Reality. We are not enlightened.. Unless we believe enlightenment is simply a realization of our duality.

This conversation is not taking place in Reality. In any way.

The truth is, if you do end up reading some books about "enlightened" masters you may find out that some of them weren't so enlightened. And if your ego allows, you may develop a faith that there is one Truth who has and will and is manifest in this delusion and if you don't literally become or realize yourself as that Truth then you are not it.

That one truth rules this delusion. Because this delusion/non-reality is born of it. And the truly enlightened one can walk on water, raise the dead, walk through walls, destroy the earth, end the delusion. No laws exist in fantasy land except for the deluded. So if you are fully associated to what is real you will see that because this delusion exists YOU are still creating it. Why? Why then promote enlightenment? Or ponder the choice of some to remain deluded, when you yourself,as awakened oneness silently participate in the creation of the delusion?

Who has learned to use your ego? To play the game? Something that has no need for it? Something that cannot make itself untrue? It is good to associate entirely with what is Real. But as you do, your ego will not exist. Your ego will be a shadow for people that cannot see what is real when they look at you.


Peace!

enlightenment is understanding and accepting how things are. When the simple truth sinks in, when the simple truth of things is not beyond your reach as a humanbeing. When you see yourself from outside perspective. this is understanding or clarity.
this is where I have reached.
for anyone who can walk through a wall or walk on water, i cant say if this is possible or not, but suspect it may be possible. However this is not what I call simple understanding and freeing yourself from your often distructiuve impulses or mind set.
If it is possible for people to walk through walls, this is not down to simple understanding. Yet Jesus and buddha taught simple understanding, to free us from ourselves and thus be at peace. if Jesus and Buddha really did have metaphysical powers they didnt teach it, which makes me a sceptic of their abilities to an extent, infact Both men played these things down as though they were less important than the simple enlightenment.
If it is possible for flesh and bone to go through a wall or walk on water or come back from the dead, then i believe that the mind would have to be pure beyond the zen mind and beyond it all the time. if this is how these feats are achives i dont see how the person in this mind state could for instance, talk or give lessons to people.
Wouldnt a person who can transmute matter never die, as Buddha did...? Would jesus chose to suffer physical pain nailed to a cross if he could simply pull his body down and through the wood and be as nothing has happened??? the story about the ressurection i am a big sceptic of...as if jesus wanted people to believe then he would not dissapear into heaven a day later etc. See I am sceptical of this but I am open to the possibility.
i also want to further add this...
if jesus suffered on the cross, so that suffering would end for us. well suffering hasnt ended.
not even for devout Christians. So that didnt work, we know this for sure.
so there are two possibilities about jesus on the cross and the ressurection.
religion says Jesus dies and suffered at our hands and said "forgive them father for they know not what they do"
to me this is all about ego "they know not what they do" and therefore can be "forgiven".
this is what I believe the message was.
the literal story states that Jesus dies and the comes back to life physcially.
This could be an analagy comparing ego death and enlightenment, as I believe it means or
it could literally mean what it states. that Jesus could literally come back from death.
if this is true then no christian has ever returned from death and if that was Jesus message then following the rules of the Bible should enable a person to literally live for ever as flesh and bone.
this then makes another two possiblities.
1. that no Christian or Buddhist has ever had enough faith to grow back a limb or return from death or
2. that these stories are just stories and are really used to talk to us about the mind and mental suffering.
I dont know for sure 100 percent, either way, but one makes more sense to me. You would also however think that if Jesus taught us what he wanted to teach us that atleast some people would have these abilities in the last 2000 years.
if these miracles are literally historical facts then I would put it to you that there has not been one single true christian or Buddhist except for Jesus and Buddha. So that would mean these two teachers completley wasted their time, wouldnt it.
i dont think so haha.

Originally posted by RRokkyy

Originally posted by orangutang
reply to post by splitlevel

 

sl, what is the experience, if you don't mind me asking, of anyone that spends time in your company? can they feel what you have realized?

Yeah, Where's the beef?
In other words, where is the proof of this so called Enlightenment?
All that has been presented so far is vague understanding of non duality.
There really isnt even any teaching here.

"There really isnt even any teaching here"
thats a very zen statement, you should contemplait you own words.
dont just read your own words but study them hard, and after some time of strenuous mental effort.
you may come to understand how the question is the answer.
You cannot comprehend this until you feel it.
When the moment hits you, then you come to realisation.
this is all that enlightenment is.
You sence it, like you sence the breath up your nostrils.
its been there the whole time and you knew it was there but only when you concentrate on the breath up your nose do you feel it.
this is zen. this is enlightenment. You will know it when it hits you. And when it hits you you will know it is the truth and the only truth.

Originally posted by arbitrarygeneraiist
reply to post by gentledissident

 

How are we all the same? Humans and life may be classified in similar ways, and humans may be of the same breed, but everyone really is different despite that fact. You and I do not share the same eye color, hair color, facial features, relatives, etc, etc.

Ultimately I do agree with you that everybody has different experiences, but even those experiences can usually be shared and are usually similar when you get to the basic understanding of a particular experience and the feelings involved in the experience.

For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

Just want to add another point, something that illustrates enlightenment well
the Story of scrooge
We all think our behaviour is acceptable and that we are "good people", generally this is our perserption, we may not do much good for anyone or ourselvs but we aint serial killers. So we are pretty much OK people.
And this is true.
We are not all scrooge etc BUT THE REASON HE IS IMPORTANT IS BECAUSE HE GOT A CHANCE TO SEE HIMSELF FROM OUTSIDE of Himself. .
Now most of us are not as miserable as scrooge and we dont need ghosts to enlighten us.
However many of us seek more, we are not at piece within ourselves. its a nagging feeling of discontent.
We may have realised that the material world cannot solve this discontent, as we have chased after physical objects for years, only to either not catch them and get depressed by failing or by catching them and letting them go (this includes romantic or physical love, due to the chasing aspect and ego aspect) or by catching them and then getting bored by them. it all ends up that we wind up discontented and not at piece.
We are not scrooge but we are discontented and do not have the solution to fix theis state of mind.
So after we decide its not the material objects that can solve this we then take strong medication to solve it. this is also a physical solution and by its nature it also to will fade and leave us then taking even stronger meds, whcih eventually also fade in usefulness.
others seek religion as the answer and follow ridgid rules because they fear God as a man on a cloud who will punish them in etrnal fire beneath the earths crust, constantly getting poked by a trident wielding devil...or whatever. This idea even, is still clinging to the physical mentality and therefore also brings mental pain and anguish.
people like this, live in a state of repression and fear and constantly judege others, who are deemed lesser than they are. this mentality is a massive ego dillusion and some of the biggest religious fanatics are the deepst in dilusion and ironically are living contrary to their own holy books etc. This is why religion causes so much trouble in the world.
Once you have some clairty, as even some religious people do have to be fair, then you do not fear "the rules" of religion, you do not have to work hard to follow the rules, you do not follow the rules because it will get you into heaven and save you feom hell.
you simply dont follow the rules, the rules are just your true nature.
for instance "thou shall no kill"..are not most murders commited out of ego.
"thou shall not commit adultery" once again ego..aslo if you have affairs with married woman, the fun is very temporary yet the trouble it causes lasts a lot longer, this does not bring mental piece just turmoil for all concerned. Adultery is yet another ego condition.
yet "thou shall not steal" well is it stealing if your hungry, no. like I say you see clearer without using you ego to make decisions like this, it comes naturally. whilst a religious fanatic would rather starve to death than to steal bread, this is ego, so you see how ego mind goes into every stuipd decision.

Originally posted by galadofwarthethird
reply to post by splitlevel

 

An ancient zen story I just made up. Man gets lost in forest during a quest to find enlightenment, and comes across an old ancient enlightened dude/master sitting under a tree, and ask some questions.

Man: what is enlightenment?
Enlightened dude: He who walks new paths, walks alone.

Man: Um ok, but what is enlightenment?
Enlightened dude: Why nothing more but seeing your box that you call your world more clearly.

Man: Again I ask what is enlightenment?
Enlightened dude: Nothing more then a word insinuating on a description of a box that does not exist.

Man: OK no really what is enlightenment?
Enlightened dude: A critical stage of change in the path of life, like from a Caterpillar to a butterfly, or in your case from being lost to finding "the way", as you will eventually see.

Man: Quit messing around, what is enlightenment?
Enlightened dude: Ok Ok enlightenment is like having your cake and eating it to.

Man: So really your not going to tell me what enlightenment is?
Enlightened dude: Enlightenment is a different answer that makes no sense for every question that you have.

Man: You know I am starting to think you don't know what enlightenment is?
Enlightened dude: Good at least your starting to think.

Man: So your not going to tell me what enlightenment is?
Enlightened dude: I could go on with the answers, but unfortunately as you can see I am busy doing nothing.

Man: Can you at least tell me how to get to the nearest town, you see I am a little lost?
Enlightened dude: You see this dirt path your standing in, well just follow it till you reach a sign with arrows and writings on it pointing you in the direction of towns. See told you that you will find "the way"

The End.

Hahahah, i like this alot.
this is the irony of zen, how can you draw a picture of nothing and still prove that something has been drawn.
Once you know zen you can talk 5h17 all day long hahahah, and be the only one to understand it hahaha.
So i have done my best to explain it in english, not an easy thing to do.

Originally posted by rwfresh
reply to post by splitlevel

 

Hi Splitlevel,

What is the benefit of enlightenment? peace of mind

Why pursue or accept clarity/Reality? to accept yourself

Is a deluded drunk sex addict holding back Reality?
Yes, they cannot accept their own mind, because they think its at rotten apple full of worms. Getting drunk, high, or screwing around is a temproray hiding place from their ego. they forget themselves whilst high, where as if awakened they could remember their ego isnt their true face and then they could be high and straight at the same time.

If i am communicating with you in delusion than Where are you? I am here..haha...that would be the zen response.


No laws exist in fantasy land except for the deluded. So if you are fully associated to what is real you will see that because this delusion exists YOU are still creating it. Why? Im not creating reality just reacting to it, the correct reaction is made when it is not filtered through your ego.

Why then promote enlightenment?
because people have mental suffering, this makes the physical world more dangerous and I currently share the physical world with othe people. So its in my self intrest to promote this, as you say. Aslo i have empathy for peole who suffer from delusions of the mind. the world would be better and safer if people came to understanding.

Or ponder the choice of some to remain deluded, when you yourself,as awakened oneness silently participate in the creation of the delusion? I think i answerd this in your last question..

Who has learned to use your ego? Its better to realise your an actor than to believe your a character. Actors can change but a character cant, they follow a predictable script...

To play the game? Physical pain is real, i can tell you it bloody hurts haha. mental pain is an illusion, but often the mental pain causes the physical pain. i cant stop someone shooting me or stabbing you and thats not escapable, but depression, hatered etc is and as these are the roots to human suffering, mostly, other than accidents and natural disasters then we may aswell stop suffering from the dillusional states, see them for what they are and use the ego for what is should be used for, communication and enjoyment of life. the world can be a beautiful place if we could all enjoy it....

Something that has no need for it? This looks like a awnser with a question mark....

Something that cannot make itself untrue? So does this....

It is good to associate entirely with what is Real. But as you do, your ego will not exist. Your ego will be a shadow for people that cannot see what is real when they look at you.
Yes I agree, with this statement....


Peace!

man there are a lot of questions here.

If you asked me to send you a book on zen

Id send you a book with no words

If you couldnt understand the book

Id send you a box with your your birthday cake inside it, with your neighbours name written on the iceing.

If you took the cake and ate it, you would understand zen.

If you invited the UPS guy in for a cup of tea and a slice of cake you would practice zen and share zen at the same time

Or you can call it Christianity if you like..



Oh and for anyone who likes meaningless books and cakes im sure there is a good library and bakery in your own neighbourhood, before you aske me call UPS.

I'll admit, there does seem to be a universal piece of advice: Befriend the killer in your dreams. It's trying to tell you something.

Also, keep a copy of Das Energi in the john

Originally posted by korathin
reply to post by splitlevel

 

I want a refund....

very zen
you had nothing to give, so i give you nothing in return
but if you gave me a million dollars Id still give you nothing in return except a "thank you"

Originally posted by orangutang
sl, i have not seen an answer to my earlier query-------------

sl, "what is the experience, if you don't mind me asking, of anyone that spends time in your company? can they feel what you have realized?"

would you care to oblige", thankyou

I didnt see your earlier question...
hope this is the same question as I can answer this one anyhow.
well if someone is spending time in my company, we will likely be eating lunch or watching a movie. the everyday activities in other words.
if you want to know if I wear a white cloak and sandals, then no I dont.
I also only tries explaining this stuff in person two two people. An ex girlfriend and a guy I know, both whomb are troubled people.
my ex...lets just say turned out to be way more troubled than i thought and we wont go into that, but "borderline personality disorder" is the term she got tagged with later on by some shrink. Basically she dug herslef in real deep and didnt understand , or wouldnt accept...whatever the case I tried and what more can you do, i always have love for the girl but couldnt live with her again,.
the guy i know still suffers alot, is in a pit of mysery and i spent hours/days/weeks/months trrying to get him straighened out, but again he is in a very deep dillusion and balmes everyone and everything for how he feels inside and so is full of violence and alcohal mostly.
the thing I failed to see back then when I tried to intervine and "help people", is this. you cant help anyone who doesnt want to change.
thats why i made this thread.
if someone comes here, its because they want to. if you see someone suffering mentally, you cant help them unless they ask for your help.
this is an important thing to remember.
the person has to take the first step themselves and by asking about enlightenment, it shows that they are beginning to see that the solution may be on the inside not the outside of their head.
So hanging out with me is no different to hanging out with anyone...i wont talk about this in person again anyhow.
its better doing it this way, as i have just explained.

Originally posted by rwfresh

Originally posted by splitlevel
Ok. its going round in circles now but as far as i see empathy/love is the true self. isnt this the classical teaching. everything else ontop of empathy, the emotions you mention are counter to empathy...your emotions generally override your empathy for others. if your now going to say you feel empathy for some people and not others then that isnt what Jesus/buddha said. your supposed to feel empath for everyone, people judged good and bad by society and people who have done you wrong. Jesus loves sinners most remember. So i disagree with your assesment. Once you see through the delusion yourself, you understand why people behave like idiots, not everyone but a lot of people. then you can forgive people for their behaviour...let things go and move on. That doesnt mean forgining people is letting them back into your life to damage you. That would be stupidity not forgivness .

edit on 9-5-2011 by splitlevel because: (no reason given)

edit on 9-5-2011 by splitlevel because: (no reason given)

In worldly enlightenment, Empathy is almost selfishness. Because Buddha, in the state that he attained, may have realized that despite his own personal freedom from delusion, THE delusion continued. His plan was to wake EVERYONE up so that the delusion (and suffering) would end. I don't mean mental delusion. I mean the whole of separated non-reality (heaven, earth, planets, people, dimensions, time etc) . That is the scary thing to accept. Enough to encourage the delusion - What if it all ends! NOOOO i won't ever get to have anal sex with that girl! I may never drive that car! I have two mdma pills left!

The deluded are getting restless. Yes we are happy that Truth's creation was apparently an act of love.. but we are a bit frustrated with the lack of momentum we've been able to muster up as a WHOLE (pun intended) to permanently end time and non-reality, and return as one in realization of our wholeness as one.

The only tool we have is Love. Which is God. Which is Truth. But i think the deluded have a trick up their sleeves. Having realized that non-Reality cannot exist in what is True, we (our egos) have opted to be destroyed, rather than coming together in a delusion dissolving LOVE FEST (world peace leading to Oneness). It is pre-ordained. We have all agreed. This delusion will end in 2012.. December whatever.. unless some SUPER egos (Satan, Anti-Christ) are successful.. but we all know they lose in the end.. But egos do love drama!

Peace!

Anal sex is 5hi77y....RDRR
Ok...I dont believe if we all woke up mentally that we would suddenly return to nothingness or nirvana or heaven.
I just believe the world would be an easier/safer and more peaceful place to live in..
We cant live in communities without ego's, but we can see them for what they are, just masks.
We can chose what mask we feel like wearing but know its still a mask and not get it glued on to our face permanantly
this glued on mask is the dilusion.
the one world love fest, that expression is another one that has too many beliefs and opinions attached to it, like free love "free sex with who, what when and where" thats all ego...i doubt that would happen, infact thats the world we live in now. the material world where everyone wants desires fullfilled to the maximum.
the 2012 thing. i dunno nor do i care.
i could be hit by a bus tomorrow, you cant cling onto to life, just like everything else its transient, that doesnt meant im planning on dieing soon though.
FOR WHATEVER REASON WE ARE HERE AND EXPERIENCE THIS MATERIAL WORLD AS FLESH. i dont know why or care why, i accept that i am here and i live here. thats all there is to it.
You cant escape physical pain in life but you can understand the cause of emotional pain.
Having a physical body is a double edged sword, pleasure and pain.
We live on earth as flesh and blood things with nervous systmes and we experience things this way.
i do not seek to end my life in this world but I sought to accept it and now i do.
Whatever comes next comes next, something or nothing, knowing, not knowing, experience or no memory.
Whatever the case of whats next is irrelivent to me, just as what came before I was alive.
In this brain I am smart enough to know there is no answer to these things, how can a brain comprehend infinity afterall.
i cant remember last time I was there...but it doesnt worry me either.