Wag The Dog - Three reasons why the official OBL story stinks to high heaven

reply to post by ~Lucidity


They were saying also that his twelve year old daughter was the one who was asked to identify the dead body.

Can that be true? A twelve year old?

reply to post by BlackOps719

Not sure. At this point who the hell knows. Seems they're still gathering information themselves. Also not sure about how many others there may have been in the compound or even if there were bodyguards or other security. One would assume so on the latter, as there was apparently a firefight of some sort..

Finally, I was hoping someone would cover this. Your post is so right on the money. I had the same exact questions and in a nutshell, you covered all of it. I have some other observations and I'll cover it later. I just want to congratulate you and thank you on a great post that is a very important matter.

Originally posted by BlackOps719

There has been a lot discussion and a great deal printed since our witnessing of the miraculous announcement that came from our dear leader yesterday evening. There have been tearful rallies in the streets with cries of patriotic fervor and bi-partisan back patting on mission accomplished. There have been 9/11 heroes paraded to and from what was formerly ground zero, and there have been stories of surviving family members who lost loved ones on that day nearly ten years ago.

As I sat and watched this all unfold last night on my tv screen, the decorated college kids hooting and hawing....the proud and boastful president declaring justice has been served....the rehashing of the drama filled, story book like tale of how the heroic SEAL team crashed the gates of the hidden compound with precision and orchestrated the brave and heroic mission to capture the boogie man himself, Mr Osama Bin Laden.

As I sat there with my mind racing, hopeful that our leadership had done something of great worth to the world...nervous and skiddish as I am painfully aware of how lies and manipulation are always never far from a good story such as this one. And even during the rallying cries and the images of patriotic fervor and the declarations of victory for America and mission well done.....I just couldnt shake the feeling that something just didnt seem quite right.


REASON #1 - All the worlds a stage

The first thing that stood out in my mind was the date. May 1, or as they call it "May Day". The same date Hitler was killed. The same date "mission accomplished" was declared by the shrub. The numerology stood out because of the many stories I have encountered of ritualism and the importance of numbers and dates when talking about the actions of the elite and their need for numbers to fit the bill. Coincidence? Maybe. But wierd to say the least.

But more so than the date was the sense of timing. Ten years into two bloody and unpopular wars, the country sits on the brink of economic collapse. The American currency is nose diving, the rebounding economy is slowing to a crawl. Banker bailouts have come and gone. The birth certificate storm rages on. The popularity level of our fearless president has sunk to an all time, desperately low level. The country is being ripped apart by storm after storm, while Japan sits and wastes away in a radiation zone. Just when tax payers are broke and fed up to the near point of rioting, when on a daily basis one can hear patriotic talk of overthrow and contempt toward this administration. Bam. The entire world shakes.

Doesnt it seem like this team needed a win in the worst sort of way? Doesnt it seem a little convenient that right when the dam is about to break and the country is about to plunge into chaos, suddenly this big score just falls in Obama's lap? The man went from having wolves at the gates to cheering mobs of rejoicing Americans filling the streets in nationalistic support. Is anyone this lucky? I say no.

The same boogie man that we have been hunting for over a decade, the very face of the Al Quaida terror posse, just happens to be lounging in a house in the suburbs of Pakistan, not a mile away from military headquarters. A house that was supposedly heavily guarded yet noone noticed? A place that supposedly had no internet or phone, yet has sattelite dishes lining the back wall of the property? We just happened to locate this compound and orchestrate a plan to engage and kill OBL, right at the exact moment in time this administration HAD to have a big win?

Very suspect.




REASON #2 - It all seemed a bit forced....


One minute Im sitting in my living room watching some crappy show on cable, the next there is hype of this big big grand announcement to come. The buildup was nothing short of Hollywood suspense thriller. President Obama comes on and delivers his pre-written, pre-rehearsed speech about how justice has been served, how Americans should return to the same level of patriotism that they showed on 9/11, and then poof....before you could blink an eye there were hundreds of people filling the streets near the white house, waving great big flags and wearing American flag shirts and chanting and singing...all in a supposed show of unscripted impromptu support for the dear leader and for the great murder of an arch criminal terrorist. All of this felt to me very much staged, planned, rehearsed. All of these fresh faced college kids in love with America, the crowd uncommonly multi cultural and ready to smile for the press. It felt very much contrived and planned.

Almost like someone maybe knew in advance where to go and what to do? Like they were put there? Like a suprise party where all of the guests showed up before the birthday boy came on, and all yelled suprise just minutes after he arrived?

Suprise......its a bunch of pre-orchestrated b.s.




REASON #3 - The body. Where is the body?


Come on man. A burial at sea? For the most villainized, ostrecized, idolized arch terrorist in the history of the modern world? You just successfully kill and abduct the remains of the public enemy #1....and all the administration can think of is to usher in a "respectful Muslim burial at sea"? Even though OBL had no relation to the sea whatsoever, and many have a difficult time even finding confirmation that a burial at sea has anything to do at all with an acceptible Muslim burial.

So what? No photos? No video? Not one outside source to confirm the capture and disposal of the most infamous and notorious man in the world? They paraded Sadaam all across CNN when they dug him from his hole. They even televised his public hanging for the entire world to see.Tthey didnt seem too concerned about his Muslim burial? Why the feigned respect suddenly for a man who was widely detested and seen as the devil himself?

Could it be that the body was frozen solid? Could it be that there was no body at all? Was the whole raid just a well timed ruse to boost morale and to boost polling numbers? I personally have long believed OBL to have been dead. He was confirmed to have suffered kidney failure and to have been on dialysis nearly a decade ago. He was questioned at an American hospital by CIA back in the early 2000's and released. The Bin Laden family has well known and well documented ties to the Bush family and the Carlyle Group, and for those like myself who believe that Osama Bin Laden had little or nothing to do with the attacks on 9/11, this all seems very surreal and troubling.




So there are my three issues that i cant seem to shake. This is all just my own thinking process, not claiming I am 100% correct or even 10%. I would love to believe that things are as they seem, that 9/11 was done by muslim terrorists, that our government has done a great and noble thing by killing a brutal terrorist leader who deserved justice to be dealt, I wish I was unaware the great number of times we the people have been misled and lied to.

Are they trying to make a case for a war in Pakistan? If so they now have it. Are they trying with all of their might to make a floundering president into a national hero? So far the media is pimping this story pretty hard, and quite frankly the sheep are eating it up like popcorn.

These are my questions, and I share them with my fellow skeptics so that you can add to this list of inconsistencies and questions that may bother you about this whole fiasco. I dont have all the answers, but right now I feel like a duck being fattened up for the slaughter, and I feel that all of this showbiz is not being done for nothing. We are in for something major very soon, and what that is has suddenly become very real and frightening.

It truly amazes me the workings of some minds here on ATS and you confirm what I always suspected.
ATS draws, like a moth to a flame, cynics and conspiracy crazies that never really think through their suspicions.

Reason #1
Just a few points:
Hitler died on 30th April close but not May 1
The birth certificate nonsense is just that.
The wars and dollar diving has more to do with Bush and his commitment to chasing Bin Laden in a cave somewhere in Afghanistan, then getting sidetracked bombing Iraq on some totally unrelated quest.
If Bush and the CIA had have concentrated on finding OBL instead of chasing mythical WMD's perhaps they would have found OBL sooner.

Reason #2
Your opinion obviously due to your cynical attitude. Doesn't mean your wrong but also doesn't mean you are correct.

Reason #3
Your reasoning is quite silly. The burial at sea has nothing to do with Muslim tradition or OBL.
The expediancy of burial has. They buried him according to Islamic law that requires a body to be buried within 24 hours of death. Not that they owe him that respect but it denies any criticism by Muslims.
Burial at sea is quite acceptable.
As for dumping his carcass in the ocean:
Would you have prefered they bury him on land so that his followers could create a shrine to this scumbag?
Burial at sea stops this from happening.

No photos? Do you really want to see them?
Okay let's say you do. Imagine the uproar from the radical Muslim supporters of this POS. Do we need to fuel this fire up anymore than it is already?
He was supposedly shot in the head. You do realise how gruesome this could be?

BTW it was the Iraqi government that executed Saddam not the US.

Frozen body? No body? What?!!
How easy is this to prove otherwise. All OBL has to do now is make another video of himself and the US and Obama look like fools. Surely his followers would've said something by now.
For example: "The US never killed him, he died 10 years ago of kidney failure, we just kept the ruse up all these years so you'd keep spending money on this endless war. It worked, your country is nearly bankrupt"
As for the rest of your statements,I think your recollection of history is a little cloudy.
War with Pakistan? Why would they want that?

Remember, Bush started all this. Do you honestly think the Republicans would sit back and let Obama claim all the glory from this, thus giving him a boost in the polls and a possible win at the next election if it wasn't true?

Not likely.

Originally posted by JohnnyR
Soooo.. did anyone listen to Glenn Beck today?

Apparently if you don't think Osama was killed Sunday you will now be refered to as "Deathers"

When I heard him say that I spit my drink out. So now we have Birthers, Truthers and Deathers....Anyone else find it curious that there is always a silly name made for people who don't accept the "official story" ?

Anyway, I'm with you OP, the story just doesn't add up. Keep digging everyone, if we could have been on 9/11 immediately after it happened like ATS has been on this one, maybe it would be a whole different story today.

Lets just hope no one finds the Allspark....

And there we go, the populace has just been told to think you are crazy if bring this up. So, Glen has said it, who's said this on CNN or MSNBC?

Actually...

Spearheading the Deather's movement

I can't remember where I saw the first reference to deather before the referenced thread (it was on some other website), but I don't think Beck made it up all by himself?

Maybe this was the first use? Link

Aww, and too bad anyway for everyone, because apparently, deather is already taken (link).

I don't know why half the people on this site from the U.S. don't just leave the country and become a citizen of New Zealand or something. They never have a good thing to say about anything America does. We just took out a guy who has nurdered thousands of people, Americans, Arabs, you name it, and we still have screwed this one up. Amazing.. The are like that fanily of whiners that used to be on the SNL skit years ago.

Probably been posted elsewhere but here is Leon Panetta talking about the raid:



At 08:00 he responds to a question about the size of the team and the helicopters involved.

There were 25 people that went on the ground. They were carried in two Blackhawk helicopters that went in

We know from other parts of the narrative that one of the helicopters had to be destroyed and that there were no casualties among the Seal team.

Now check out the spec for a Black Hawk helicopter as taken from the US Military's own website:

Black Hawk Spec

A Black Hawk can carry a payload of 2640 lbs (approx. 1200 kg) or 11 combat ready troops.

Now I know that Navy Seals are no couch potatoes but nor are they runway models at Paris fashion week so one would have to guess that each one weighs in the region of 180 lbs (80 kg).

That means getting all 25 back on board together with the corpse of a guy estimated at between 6' 2" and 6 6" puts the combined payload at 4680 lbs (more than 2100 kg) that's not far off double the max. weight for a Black Hawk.

This story is so full of holes its untrue. They've had ten years to make it up why do such a pisspoor job of it?

reply to post by casinoed


Official story as reported on CBS News last night says they sent in a chinook to pick the remaining people and the body up.

This is the story, with CBS-produced animation of the official facts.

www.cbsnews.com...

Start watching at about 2:40 for the timeline, description of the mission, and the animation.

Originally posted by brewing
I don't know why half the people on this site from the U.S. don't just leave the country and become a citizen of New Zealand or something. They never have a good thing to say about anything America does. We just took out a guy who has nurdered thousands of people, Americans, Arabs, you name it, and we still have screwed this one up. Amazing.. The are like that fanily of whiners that used to be on the SNL skit years ago.

Well abandoning ship would make us traitors as well if we just packed up and left wouldn't it? Yes we may bitch and moan a lot but that is because our standard of living is no longer what it once was. But our discontent & discourse is born out of much of 911 itself and the lies that surround it still. Or as a wise man once said - "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism"



There is no proof Bin Laden had any part in 911, he was never trailed or indicted. Now we will never know since they executed him before he could talk. Just like the 911 scrap that was shipped over seas. Apparently resisting without a weapon merits a bullet in the head at point blank range. Strange they shot his wife in the leg for throwing herself in front of Bin Laden and attacking one of the seals. Yet they shoot him gangland style and then dump the body gang land style?

As the Mafia would call it : Sleeping with the fishes

Shut him up, kill the liability and dispose of the evidence. That is of course if it happened at all.

Hm. Regarding that CBS report: So, we are supposed to believe that there is only one entrance to the mansion? Wouldn't the copters being so close already alert those within? Wouldn't people have plenty of time to flee within the time it took to land (one crashing) and then the successive bombing of the wall?

There are also differing reports and perhaps someone could clarify which came first or if they are both accepted - but one report states that Bin Laden's 12 year old daughter IDed the body. Another reports his wife as saying that the US took him alive and then executed him. So did they take him away, execute him and then return so that his daughter could then positively ID the body? Doesn't make sense to me. But like I said, I'm not sure if one report trumps another or even if either of them are "official". I cannot find the original links.

Regarding the name-calling... Immediately referring to skeptics as "deathers" is a way to minimize or discredit them. You accomplish two things... one is now there's a catchy word to stereotype and generalize everyone who questions the story. Two, you equate skeptics with "birthers" or "truthers", terms that have already been coined and are synonymous with being "out there" or a nut.

reply to post by casinoed
[more

not all blackhawks have same payload.....MH-60 Blackhawks come in L, K, and M types

Originally posted by BlackOps719
reply to post by ~Lucidity

 

They were saying also that his twelve year old daughter was the one who was asked to identify the dead body.

Can that be true? A twelve year old?

Who cares its OSAMA,

reply to post by ~Lucidity


I am not interested in picking holes in what the media is reporting/has reported. I am trying to pick holes in the official narrative of what is supposed to have happened according to those who planned/carried out the mission.

If you have links to any official sites detailing these aspects of the raid, I will happily stand corrected but according to President Barack Obama's counter-terrorism advisor John Brennan:

We were concerned that if the Pakistanis decided to scramble jets or whatever else... They had no idea about who might have been in there, whether it be US or somebody else. So we were watching and making sure that our people and our aircraft were able to get out of Pakistani airspace . And thankfully, there was no engagement with Pakistani forces.

your assertion that

they sent in a chinook to pick the remaining people and the body up

indicates a rather lackadaisical clean-up after a what ought to have been a time critical operation.

reply to post by BlackOps719


just a sidebar issue... nice summary in your OP....
had to officially be a part of this thread, even if it is page 15+...




here's my 2¢....
springing from the late news that OBL was code-named 'Geronimo'....


news.yahoo.com...

in my quick analysis...

i figure that the Intel community/CIA gave the code name 'Geronimo' to OBL because bin Laden truly became a Renegade Asset of the CIA, just as Geronimo became a renegade in the eyes of the White-Eyes government in DC and the Calvery in the West...
And by leaking this code-name 'they' have actually confirmed what we CT'ers have suspected all along, that OBL was once a CIA trained, funded Agent/Asset, who went Rogue for some reason (probably because the USA wanted the Mujahideen & warlords to kill each other after they routed the Soviets in Afghanistan) --And OBL wanted no part of that subtrafuge against his friends and comrads in arms...i reckon that's when he realized that the USA was a great satan empire after all...

reply to post by THEDUDE86


And what are the payloads of those? Besides its a moot point, according to CBS, after a job well done they smoked cigars and waited to be picked up later on by clumsy-wumsy Chinooks - that incidentally touched down just 1 km away from Pakistan's leading military academy at a 'compound' where a 40 minute fire fight had just taken place.

Do you see what I'm getting at? Holes, big f@ck off holes all over the place.

The BIRTHERS strike again as

The DEATHERS_ Show us the Death Certificate.

Originally posted by casinoed
reply to post by THEDUDE86

 

And what are the payloads of those? Besides its a moot point, according to CBS, after a job well done they smoked cigars and waited to be picked up later on by clumsy-wumsy Chinooks - that incidentally touched down just 1 km away from Pakistan's leading military academy at a 'compound' where a 40 minute fire fight had just taken place.

Do you see what I'm getting at? Holes, big f@ck off holes all over the place.

Oh yeah, huge freaking holes. I mean, you have the forty minute fire fight and OBL doesn't have time to grab a gun? Rrrrrrright. He's the enemy number one and he doesn't have a gun? I still don't understand why they had to get rid of the body so quickly and to give the piece of waste a "proper muslum" send off?
I remember in the news a long time back, didn't osama have all these body doubles so nothing like this could happen? (if i can find the story, I'll post it.)
What about the first story where they said at this compound they didn't have internet or phones, yet now were being told that the seals took all kinds of computers, hardrives, ect?
This whole thing stinks.

reply to post by ~Lucidity


So I have sat through and watched/listened to the CBS link. I must say that being long term ATSer you apparently are, I find your willingness to cite a mainstream media source as an infallible source of info for the 'story of the decade' rather surprising

Anyhow your 'Live, From The Pentagon' reporter makes a very compelling case, with lots of lovely visuals. And since he is 'Live From The Pentagon' he must have a source right? Well no, actually.

The DOD has only made one briefing to date about the mission and they refused to answer operational specifics:

Latest News Transcripts from DOD

No mention of Chinooks, nor from Panetta, so then we have to assume that they all climbed back on the single remaining blackhawk. Fair enough?

reply to post by casinoed

Dude.

My POINT was that this was the OFFICIAL version. Pick your holes.

And I was addressing what seemed to be an apparent lack of knowledge of the official story on the part of whoever it was I was replying to.

I made no assertion. Do not pull words out of context. Furthermore, the source I linked describing the official account of the events as interpreted and illustrated by CBS most decidedly did address it as time critical because of a concern that fighter jets might be on their way. Matches what you posted.

Nowhere and no way does anything I said imply or look like I'm citing anything as freaking gospel. I suggest you 1.) stop drawing illogical conclusions because if continure this trend your analysis will be equally faulty and 2.) quit being a dick, as in your last two posts to me. Thank you.

Carry on.