Nato strike 'kills Saif al-Arab Gaddafi', Libya says

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by stumason

 

I can remember a time when ATS wasn't so full of political rhetoric and anti-western garbage, when it focused on intelligent discussion of UFOs and other anomalous phenomena.

Since 2008, things have never been the same on here.

Since 2008, things have never been the same on here.


Its funny how 5% of humans think that.

I wonder why 95% think 2000 when bush took office was the worst.

Its sad and funny how one president can mess things up so bad that his own race wouldn’t think about reelecting one of theirs?

But I guess when you have a president that was once a coc aine user and heavy drinker with a C average grade for 8 years, I guess it’s kind of hard to ‘CHANGE’

I know mother ,SAD RIGHT!

Text Since 2008, things have never been the same on here

Awwww, REALLY !

LOL,HAHAHA,'IM LAUGHING LIKE HELL' seriously !

Becuase it sounded so phony and so...sensitive.

Text Since 2008, things have never been the same on here

'laughing'...and very out loud'

Funny sensitive humans.

I felt like getting a bottle for some reson and feeding him/her.

I felt like getting a blanket and some pampers.

I felt like putting him in time out,with his face directly looking at the wall...with a hat on top of his head.

I dont know how you all felt,'Little Richard' and 'Jhon Elton' just kept flashing in my head.
dont understand??

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by stumason

 

So 17,000 as the upper boundary? 1000 of which are trained?

What we cannot tell is how many are imported, those numbers are recent.

Its respectable, but hardly a majority in a country of 6 million ish.

We will see. Time will tell.

I do have a question for you. Did you believe the hoopla about Iraq leading up to the invasion?

I must have read that article wrong. I thought it said 8,000. It makes me wonder if it only took 1000 trained to keep the Country in line. That would be pretty good odds.

I read this on Libya: the Iraq connection

He does not claim that the toppling of Saddam Hussein helped to trigger the fall of the other Arab domino-dictatorships. But it did help to make Gaddafi less dangerous than he otherwise would now be. Gaddafi was confronted with painstaking (and accurate) intelligence developed by our Secret Intelligence Service and the CIA about his WMD programmes. I have no doubt that what convinced him peacefully to abandon these programmes was Iraq. But don’t take that from me. Just three days after Libya had agreed to have its WMD programmes dismantled under international supervision, CNN reported that “Gaddafi acknowledged that the Iraq war may have influenced him” in his decision. In the same report Hans Blix, the former UN weapons inspector, said he imagined that “Gaddafi could have been scared by what he saw happen in Iraq”.

.
blogs.independent.co.uk...

reply to post by Soshh


What are you talking about? Eastern Libya sends more foreign fighters to Iraq than any other country per capita. That is a fact that is undisputable. Of course I haven't been there but even on cnn I've heard their terrorist experts say if this was any other country they would be calling these rebels the Mugahadem(or however you spell it) or Al Qaeda. Have you been there and talked with the locals?

Originally posted by wonderworld


I must have read that article wrong. I thought it said 8,000. It makes me wonder if it only took 1000 trained to keep the Country in line. That would be pretty good odds.

You didnt read the article wrong. The first article did say 8000. The second said 17000. I chose the higher of the two numbers to address because Stu is complaining that no one will give his ideas and opinions the time of day.

And your quote was interesting.

The problem with their strategy is that our enemies in the region SHOULD (if they wanted to win) have united against us back then. They are all clinging to hope if they give up their weapons programs and settle down and try to comply they will be allowed to go on with business.

But they wont. I predict there will come a time when Saudi Arabia is no longer necessary to the western globalists and they too get the ax.

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

I have good reason to despise Labour, all of which based on fact rather than ideological differences. I actually voted for them in 2001 and 2005. I digress though...

If your talking about tony blair, the man had no choice really, other than a)resign or b)tell america to piss off and start a war of attrition with usa. Neither a or b were good options so don't blame yourself in that regard. He did what any politician would have done!

reply to post by Immortalgemini527


I was curious as to why you refer to people here as mortals or humans on a political thread. What are you then? I hadnt heard of any UFO's over Libya lately but it would make it a bit more rational I guess.

Here is one;

Did UFO Shoot Down US Plane Over Libya Last Month? Video Proof ...

Originally posted by Canadianpride420
Well I apologize for being rude but I can write any way I want to. This isn't a paper I'm having marked, I'm just writing what comes to me at the moment. I don't know how long my response is going to be and could care less about going through the entire thing to make sure it's good paragraph structure or good grammer,

No, you are quite right, you don't have to write like that at all. But conversely, neither do I have to read it. You want me to read soemthign you wrote, so make it so I can read it. Simples..

Originally posted by Canadianpride420
I have elaborated why I believe the Libyan uprising is different than the one in Egypt and Tunisia in this thread. Basically we have not seen the same numbers as the uprisings in Egypt and Tunisia or even Yemen. Protestors in those countries were camping out and protesting in squares peacefully. Those protestors always maintained change through peace.

Right. The Libya protests started off the same, with large crowds gathering and trying to effect peaceful change. Then Gaddafi troops began firing, helicopter gunships were used and aircraft bombed from the skies. In Tunisia and Egypt (especially Egypt as the Army point blank refused to engage the protesters) this did not happen.

Do you honestly believe people are still going to try and camp out and effect peaceful change when being shot at?

Originally posted by Canadianpride420
So you say you would cut someone's head off if in their shoes. I would kill in defense of myself but I would not cut someone's head off and wave it around like a trophy. To me that is barbaric and pointless.

If this sort of thing was happening in my town and armed thugs were shooting at my kids in the street, yes, I would kill them and if I captured them, I would fudge them up. Don't remember saying anything about shoes though...

Originally posted by Canadianpride420
See my comments earlier in this thread regarding foreign fighters coming from Eastern Libyan. Per capita Libya sends more than any other country. Saudi Arabia sends more but population wise Libya sends more per capita. There are 5 or so links in my earlier comment.

Yes, I saw them after our last exchange. However, the numbers you are talking about, as pointed out by SOSSH, are still tiny. The amount of fighters leaving the UK to wage "Jihad" is significant but that nether means the UK supports them or that the majority of the Muslims here support them.

Conversely, how many Western men and women are signing up for private contractors to earn mega bucks fighting foreign wars? Doesn't mean we're all bad, evil terrorists does it?

Originally posted by Canadianpride420
Based on what Ghaddafi has done with his country and all the benefits he has brought, mixed with what we have seen of the rebels so far(waging genocide on black african workers), yes I believe he is a much better leader for his country.

To put what you're saying into context (and I have seen no evidence to suggest the rebels or even Gaddafi are performing genocide), Eastern Libya had unemployment upwards of 25% before this broke out, despite their being over a million migrant workers and a labour shortage. They simply weren't getting the jobs.

Originally posted by Canadianpride420
Your saying free education is the norm for most developed countries?

Well I can tell you that it is very expensive and tuition fees are high. I'm pretty sure you English have had protests over high tuition fees for students.

You're talking about University education then? Not education generally? Ours is still technically free at the point of use and you only pay back your loan once you achieve a certain salary and even then, its only £20 a month! Those protests were the left trying to get one over and misleading the students into thinking they had to fork out £9000 up front, which they do not.

Originally posted by Canadianpride420
So your talking out your arse.

Not at all. You said education, which is free between the ages of 4 to 18 in the UK. Even University is free at the point of use.

Originally posted by Canadianpride420
Oh so your saying if you get injured oversea's and require surgery, that your government will pay for it.

Within the EU, yes. We are entitled to use any health services throughout the EU as if they were our own. Outside the EU, you can get consular assistance in the matter and, if needed, the Government can assist repatriation to a UK hospital. Most people have insurance though which does the same.

Originally posted by Canadianpride420
I know you guys have tuition fees and your government will not pay for their citizens to study abroad.

Tuition fees are misunderstood and no-one in the UK has to pay for their University education up front. Also, we have some of the best Uni's in the world, so where is the need to go abroad? People are coming here from all over the world!

Originally posted by Canadianpride420
You DO pay taxes on your food

No, we don't. VAT only applies to luxury items or processed food. Normal food, fresh/frozen veg and meat is all tax free.

Originally posted by Canadianpride420
and government does not give you profit for their exports.

What do you think the Government does with the revenue it collects? Schools, roads, hospitals, railways, power, recreational facilities etc etc etc.. I may not get cash in my pocket (well, I do actually in the form of Child benefit) but I get plenty of toher benefits out of the UK's income.

Originally posted by Canadianpride420
So no you do not enjoy the same freedoms as Libyans.

Freedoms? All you have listed are perks, not freedoms! I have many more freedoms than any Libyan does! I can protest against the Government without fear of foreign soldiers shooting me in the street for starters...

Originally posted by Canadianpride420
Give me links of innocent Libyans who were executed.

I can give you a link to the Abu Salim Prison massacre, where over 1,000 political prisioners were massacred in 1996. Most in that prison never even had a trial, so how can I ever convince you of their "innocence"?

www.hrw.org...

Originally posted by Canadianpride420
Until then your point holds no water.

Well, now it hopefully it does...

Originally posted by Canadianpride420
www.youtube.com... < Theres your link for the weapons that the Libyan army does not have. They are brand new and were not stolen from the libyan weapon caches. There are pictures, videos and a guy explaining the whole thing. No music you can say that is annoying. I am looking forward to your comment on this

Can't hear anything as I am at work. I will have a watch when I get home if I get the chance. From what I can see though, some of the weapons those guys have are not NATO, but then I do not know what the guy is referencing in the picture as I cannot hear him.

Originally posted by Canadianpride420
reply to post by Soshh

 

What are you talking about? Eastern Libya sends more foreign fighters to Iraq than any other country per capita. That is a fact that is undisputable. Of course I haven't been there but even on cnn I've heard their terrorist experts say if this was any other country they would be calling these rebels the Mugahadem(or however you spell it) or Al Qaeda. Have you been there and talked with the locals?

The word is indisputable and where did I dispute that? My point was that they are a tiny minority and are hated by the majority.

I have been to Libya but only around Tripoli. A friend of mine is in Benghazi at the moment working as a journalist, having spent the past couple of weeks in Misrata with opposition fighters. He's an excellent source of info for what is actually going on, providing more detail than media articles with none of the spin – and things that his employer doesn’t want to report. So while my understanding is as limited as anyone else's it is far better than most people's, including ATS members, regardless of how "enlightened" they believe they are.

Originally posted by wonderworld
reply to post by Immortalgemini527

 

I was curious as to why you refer to people here as mortals or humans on a political thread. What are you then? I hadnt heard of any UFO's over Libya lately but it would make it a bit more rational I guess.

Here is one;

Did UFO Shoot Down US Plane Over Libya Last Month? Video Proof ...

edit on 1-5-2011 by wonderworld because: (no reason given)

Sorry,i thought this was a thread on why 3 kids was killed for no reason,didnt know that dealt in politics,but then again,it is the american way of thinking.
Will not reply again.

What we realy have here is a set of revolutions possibly orchestrated by non other than the CIA and MI6 and then when these revolutions reached Libya and their government managed to supress them, NATO decides to order a mafia hit on their heads. It's almost like someone got mad and all of a sudden unleashed a plan to subjugate the world by any means possible as fast as possible. Meanwhile we have the 2012 scare which is nothing else than a psyops to gear up people and condition minds that is too conveniently coming after this great US UK led coop we see unfolding against numerous countires of North Africa and Middle East.

I see people defending the actions of their leaders and calling everyone else, Qaddafi's or Mubarak's or what have you "fanboys". Probably the same would be happening if we were back in 1939's, they would be calling people arguing about the bombings and the rochestrated revolutions as Churchill's fanboys for instance.

WELL GUESS WHAT FOLKS?

HITLER LOST!

WHAT IF?

What then?

reply to post by Soshh

I'm interested in what your friend knows, since he is in Benghazi. Is there more?

Do the Libyan rebels have radical Islamist fervor.

Why does Hillary Clinton say We can present evidence that the Benghazi rebels have links to Al Qaeda?

What is know about this?

Originally posted by spacebot
What we realy have here is a set of revolutions possibly orchestrated by non other than the CIA and MI6 and then when these revolutions reached Libya and their government managed to supress them, NATO decides to order a mafia hit on their heads.

A lot of the acceleration began when Wikileaks was big news. I have a feeling, totally unsupportable, that this rapid increase in scope and speed of the move to globalization has to do with the "insurance policy" being held by Assange. Which means he is a real jerk for not releasing it if that is true. They will probably kill him anyway once they make that insurance file redundant.

Some of these people do not care if we are toppling world leaders in violation of international law. There really is not point trying to point out to them that this is all orchestrated, because they dont care.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


I wish Saudi Arabia would step up to the plate now and then and express their interests more publically. I also fear Countries very close to us are also on the chopping block, in the globalists agenda, for other reasons..

reply to post by Soshh


I have a question for you. Does your friend agree with the western media that this uprising is a popular one? Or is it a small group of people who have long held a grudge against Gaddafi?

And actually another, does he suspect it is being instigated from without?

on the same matter, many of you pro war and pro for the current actions of NATO that are sitting comfortably thinking you are fighting the good fight because you supposedly are sidding with the powrfull agenciens like the CIA and MI6 and the Rothschilds and the whatever, that gather and collect all the usefull info on your supposed and as perceived by you enemies and ideological opponents that are the only ones playing this game, and that 1.2 billion people in China, 1.5 billion in India, 130 million in Russia, to just list SOME of the countries and the poppulations that are opposed to what we see developng here are just sitting on their asses doing absolutely nothing about all this? That for some strange reasons, they won't be doing somehow the exatly same collecting and analyzing and categorizing that your supposed good guys are doing? If for instance nobody is being vocal about does this mean that such things could not be happening?

So what if the Grand Plan fails?
What are you people are going to do then?
Cry for help to whom?
Do you not know where the nazi troops ended up? I am not talking about the ones whisked out on project paperclip, which in reality were a only a handfull compared to the rest of the tens of thousands of Hitlers fighting forces?

Originally posted by wonderworld


I wish Saudi Arabia would step up to the plate now and then and express their interests more publically. I also fear Countries very close to us are also on the chopping block, in the globalists agenda, for other reasons..

I fear America is on the chopping block, personally. The goal is to have an NAU. I suspect they are running up our debt on military spending in advance of a default. Which will throw our country into chaos and scare us, and people will when desperate be more likely to accept a "rescue" that includes the loss of our sovereignty. It wont be a total loss, but I suspect we will end up losing America as a real nation by the time this is all said and done.

Edit to add,

And Jordan and Israel already got a warn with their own small uprisings and I am sure they adjusted to comply, which is why they didnt get toppled now.

But like Saddam, and Gaddafi, they are not out of the woods. Iran is the last real threat once they take down Gaddafi, and then I suspect Jordan and the House of Saud will find out that when you do business with people who topple governments, it eventually comes back to haunt you. They will no longer be needed as "friends" to help promote "democracy" and allow western economic interests a foot hold in the region.

The time for the Mid East to unite and defend its right to self governance is virtually over at this point.

reply to post by Immortalgemini527


It wasnt meant to insult you, sorry if you took it that way. I assumed you were humoring the situation, calling some mortals. You dont need to reply to me but carry on you have insight too, with a twist. You have some creative ideas to contribute.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

Originally posted by spacebot
What we realy have here is a set of revolutions possibly orchestrated by non other than the CIA and MI6 and then when these revolutions reached Libya and their government managed to supress them, NATO decides to order a mafia hit on their heads.

A lot of the acceleration began when Wikileaks was big news. I have a feeling, totally unsupportable, that this rapid increase in scope and speed of the move to globalization has to do with the "insurance policy" being held by Assange. Which means he is a real jerk for not releasing it if that is true. They will probably kill him anyway once they make that insurance file redundant.

Some of these people do not care if we are toppling world leaders in violation of international law. There really is not point trying to point out to them that this is all orchestrated, because they dont care.

I for some reason haven't bought the whole Assange thing. Personally I believe the whole wikileaks case is just an effort of more efficient political pressure against players in the global scene for them to line up against one side or the other. If there are sides that are being drawn I would believe is not long now before we see a real fighting errupting between these sides whoever they are. I believe that WWII was not really a global war compared to what we may witness soon if things continue like this. it will be evryone against everyone. Literally nobody might be spared. I don't know who might had the enormous ability needed to calculate every possible outcome of such an Global escalation. I believe that nobody has and nobody ever will. So we are heading towards some very uncertain times.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL

 

NATO's Secretary General is Danish. So its not lead by the US.

The first actions in Libya were lead by French fighter jets at 1745 19 March, the US cruise missile strike began later in the evening.

Even now, US jets are only in reserve, the majority of sorties are flown by the UK, France, Norway, Denmark, Canada, Italy, etc.

The US is still in the fight. They still are supporting it. You think the NATO doenst care what the US thinks? The only reason it is done is because of the USA. The US has a hand in this and it led to baby killing just as you see.

www.youtube.com...

This is an interesting video. It shows what looks like a CIA or M16 agent helping a Libyan rebel...We will never know for sure but Obama did give the CIA the green light didn't he?
www.youtube.com... < Here's another