Nato strike 'kills Saif al-Arab Gaddafi', Libya says

reply to post by thefirstrasta


Guilty of not wanting to be attacked by ICBMs, yea we're guilty. Everyone except Kennedy himself wanted a total invasion of Cuba, instead we blockaded it by sea and resolved the fact that there are nuclear missiles in our back yard peacefully.

If it wasn't for that, we (human life on Earth) might not exist now.

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
reply to post by MikeboydUS

 

Its a western coup.

How is this a coup? In Venezuela, high ranking officers tried to arrest Chavez. They detained him, declared a provisional government with interim president. The people demonstrated and they released Chavez.

There was a coup in Egypt. This mess in Libya is a revolt.

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


I disagree. The media clearly said numerous times that the rebels were outnumbered 10 to 1. Libya has around 50,000 troops before this whole thing and a population of about 6.5 million. Meaning the rebels number somewhere around 5 thousand. That is a huge minority and that is no opinion

Originally posted by ImJaded
wow nobody can respond to my previous post? So much for supporting your troops and their families!

I've got a message board full of worried wives and dependants and we don't know what's going on other than what we can find online thus far... its after midnight here, most husbands are gone, and we are just waiting on pins and needles to see what tomorrow brings.
I believe it was a danish plane, that is what I heard anyway, no hard evidence to speak of. But anyway... carry on.

Anything taking of from Med would be somewhat vaulnerable to foreign intel and since I hear that Qaddafi is not alone, and since it's a fact that British missions with expensive planes always taking off directly from the UK and since this would be the most sensitive mission from the beggining of this war and since the target was Qaddafi himself hence there is a high probability it was the British.

Originally posted by Canadianpride420
www.youtube.com...

Heres a video above showing how the rebels have had nato weapons from day one. Weapons that the Libyan army does not have. They are also brand new

edit on 1-5-2011 by Canadianpride420 because: (no reason given)

The Rebel/Insurgents have newly aquired sophisticated weapons like surface-to-air missiles lately that may have came from Al Qaeda’s Hands, which is more disturbing, if in fact they werent stolen. Maybe the Rebels bombed the compound? Everyone will hide behind NATO and never take the rap. They sure arent coming from any NATO or UN forces and looted from Libyan arsenals as far as I can tell. I try not to connect the Rebels to Al Qaeda but what if Gaddafi was telling the truth? Some of these guys are playing both sides of the fence.
.

Does Gaddafi still call himself "Colonel"? If so doesn't that make him a legitimate military target?

Originally posted by Canadianpride420

I just have a heard time believing that these are citizens rising up. I believe Egypt and Tunisia were real but I don't buy the Libyan conflct.

So how can we tell which uprissings are real and which are staged? And staged by whom? For what?

Do I have to go to a fortune teller, flip a coin, gut instincts, all, none...sorry I am getting more and more confused it seeems!

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
You keep using the argument that Gaddaffi has the support of his people - but all you have to go on is the same clips we all have - nothing more - nothing less.

Actually, I am not basing my opinion that he has popular support SOLELY on the images I see. But lets start there. In all the images of the rebels we see a few hundred. Even when, all the western media has been trying their hardest to make this uprising look like a large one.

Where is the missing footage of these vast numbers of rebels?

Secondly, a leader unpopular with his people faced with a majority uprising backed by the Western military might is able to hold out for a very long time. His military is not turning against him to save themselves and their families even though they can be sure they would turn the tide of victory in favor of the rebels and possibly even earn themselves favor with the new regime.

Why is this?

Thirdly, there are objective UN numbers showing the quality of life of the Libyan people to be much better than the other people in the region. This does not tend to make people unhappy with their leaders. On average, they even had better quality of life than most westerners.

Why are they so angry with him? Does this make sense?


Fourth, the story and the rationale of the "allies" seems to be morphing and shifting and their actions, (bombing Gaddafis son's house) do not correspond with their words.

If they are not trying to kill Gaddafi why bomb his family's homes?

Fifth, I have seen this all before, in Iraq. I have familiarity with the way our media and government propagandized "humanitarian war."

Why do my peers have such a short memory?

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
It's nothing but your opinion that he has that support - not actual evidence. Those clips - the 'sea' of green singing his praises - how many people is that - exactly? Can you get a good count?

Did you watch the video a couple pages back? You tell me.

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
I'm talking about his own people - not the U.S., not Europe - his people.

How many Americans can you count speaking out against Obama? Does this mean NATO should authorize action against him?

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
You keep insisting that the footage of the rebels is fake - but you don't know that - you believe it.

Many of us have pointed out the small matter of missing planes while they are shooting up in the air. Al Jazeera' has tacked on disclaimers to at least one video made about atrocities against the rebels.

What evidence do you have that they are authentic?

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
Yet, the crowds you see supporting him - that you're also willing to believe. You can't know that in reality they do support him.

Interesting.

It is easy to believe that people who have a good standard of living, and are prosperous, support their leader. Yes. Especially since large numbers of them CAN be shown, despite the MSM not being willing to air it, while that same MSM is very willing and in fact eager to show large numbers of rebels, but cant.

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
I've known some Libyans - let's just say I've heard some accounts - personal accounts - of what goes on in that country.

Were they in Libya still? Or had they emigrated from Libya?

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
If we here - in this land that you and I both love - had had a different history than the one we've had - a life living under a brutal dictator that stole your relatives in the night - that hung people in the center of town as a warning - and then left them there to rot - that put people in prison for essentially saying anything other than what he will permit you to say - how out in the open do you think you would be willing to be with your opinions?

We may find out. You can be jailed in America for life without trial. In that same "brutal intolerant country," a woman got on television, accused Gaddafis people of raping her, screamed loudly about how abusive the government has been to her, and helped instigate war against Libya, and yet she walks free, unharmed. At least up til a few days ago. That doesnt strike YOU as odd?

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
You've made it no secret that you're a patriot. If this country had had a different history - and we as a people decided to rise up against injustice and brutal oppression, you would be on the front lines. You still willing to say - to hell with the rebels - they deserve what they get for going against their leader?

I have NEVER said I would participate in armed revolt against my nation. Ever. Nor would I. I would defend my nation, I would fight to protect my government from being overturned, but I would never use force of arms to overturn my own government. And yes, any group who does try to overturn the US government from within, gets what they deserve.

We the people are the reason our government is being taken over from within. But the mechanisms of democracy are still there. Eroded, in tatters, undermined by the media, but still there. If the majority of you want to believe everything the media tells you, and let corporatists and bankers take over the nation, that is a form of democracy. Election by popular consent. I will argue against it, and I will instigate my country men to take political action before it is too late, until it is no longer legal, and then I will stop. And accept the will of the majority.

Read the "Apology" by Plato if you want to know why.

I have answered YOUR questions.

Answer me one. Why, in light of the actions of your government in the past, are you so willing to believe this is true? And leave out the testimony of your Libyan friends IF they are immigrants to America. Because there is bias in considering the opinion of someone who disliked it somewhere enough to leave. Americans who leave America might have some nasty things to say too. Hell, Americans IN America have some very nasty things to say about brutality by police, harassment, etc..

I probably will not engage in a long debate with you. Because I like you. And I do not want to undo our good regard for one another. We will have to just agree to disagree, but I would like to understand your position first.

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
So US led NATO really are baby killers.
I was wondering if it was true or not, looks like it was.

US-led?

By what standard?

Was it a US missile? a French one?

You seem to have access to inside info. Care to share?

US is the biggest member of nato and the leader of Nato. You know how many children were killed in iraq by USA? Yes baby killers is correct.

Didnt the USA fire the first missle on libya? Then provide air support? Yes USA led.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

So how can we tell which uprissings are real and which are staged? And staged by whom? For what?

A total inability to show a mass of protesters MIGHT be a good clue.

We saw nothing BUT images of the massed protesters in Egypt. We can get images from all over the world, including live footage of a tsunami washing over Japan, but somehow and eager and willing media (from all over the world) is unable to give us images of a popular uprising of any number in Libya? Why?

reply to post by RSF77


Whilst I respect what you are saying, the atrocities I highlighted are ALL post cuban missile crisis and thus have little to do with defending from ICBMs. I fear we are going too far off topic here but I would like to say that from my rather limited knowledge on the subject, from what i gather the missile crisis further highlights Washington hypocrisy in that they had similar installations in Turkey out in the open aimed at the USSR, yet this is acceptable as it the world superpower need not conceal its intent but advertises it to "maintain credibility". But like I said America continued its international state sponsored terrorism despite the ending of the crisis, with the attacks peaking in the Nixon era, and perpetuated well past the point of the soviet union collapsing in 1991, basically destroying the pretexts for the terrorism subjected to the country, yet it persisted. I apologise for straying off topic but I believe it somewhat relates to the current crisis as the US and NATO are often overlooked in their crimes whilst focusing on small weak nations that have little hope in defending themselves.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
Actually, I am not basing my opinion that he has popular support SOLELY on the images I see. But lets start there. In all the images of the rebels we see a few hundred. Even when, all the western media has been trying their hardest to make this uprising look like a large one.

Well, they do control 2 major airfields and some cities in eastern Libya, so there has to be more than a few of them. This is not totally a made up scheme.

Benghazi and pretty much everything east of there. A lot of central/southern Libya is allegedly contested due to NATO air cover.

The rebels have a few defected MIG-23 aircraft. One tried to take off and NATO enforced the no fly zone and made it land.

Saif al-Arab and three of Col Gaddafi's grandchildren died at a villa in the Bab al-Aziziya compound, he said.


And the mortals wonder why tornadoes and catastrophic events are happening in the USA.

I HOPE WHEN THE NEXT 911 HAPPENS PEOPLE WONT BE ASKING WHY THE MUSLIMS ARE CELEBRATING…ITS ONLY RIGHT !

‘EYE FOR AN EYE’

KARMA…IS A BITCH !

reply to post by Immortalgemini527


An interesting take, sadly the tornadoes are hitting regular people that probably hold similar views to us whilst the big players sit comfortably watching it all unravel and profiting billions - same with 9/11 (depending on your views as to whether it was a conspiracy or not, im yet to decide).

Originally posted by ImJaded
wow nobody can respond to my previous post? So much for supporting your troops and their families!

I've got a message board full of worried wives and dependants and we don't know what's going on other than what we can find online thus far... its after midnight here, most husbands are gone, and we are just waiting on pins and needles to see what tomorrow brings.
I believe it was a danish plane, that is what I heard anyway, no hard evidence to speak of. But anyway... carry on.

I dont think there is any doubt on my part about not supporting our troops. I have one family member headed from the EU, to Afghanistan (US airforce base there). A safe job but still scary. I have other family members retired from the military. I dont think at this point any ground troops are going in. We are getting them at night. I think perhaps we havent seen the newest war planes and wont until they retire them, like the Blackbird. Maybe it's an over-active imagination but I'd like to know.

Originally posted by Immortalgemini527

And the mortals wonder why tornadoes and catastrophic events are happening in the USA.

Do you also believe that the stock market could cause an earthquake? Otherwise I can't quite make out how a tornado is in any way related to an uprising in Libya, and would love to hear how.

Originally posted by Soshh

Originally posted by Canadianpride420
reply to post by stumason

 

You seem to have a good knowledge of events in Libya so i'm sure you know that eastern Libya is an al qeada breeding ground, particularily Benghazi(which is the rebel stronghold).

No, particularly Derna and Tobruk.

Around 25% of foreign fighters in Iraq come from there, more than any other foreign country.

According to the Sinjar Records, 19% came from Libya and 41% came from Saudi Arabia. 60% of Libyan fighters came from Derna and only 24% from Benghazi, despite a massive difference in population. What is your source?

The opposition could do with some more of the fanatical extremist types, they would actually be getting something done. Perhaps Gaddafi has a few more LIFG members lying around that he wants to release from his prisons, as long as they promise to be good. That would be helpful.

Originally posted by spacebot
I hear it's almost certain it was British jets.
Blood sacrifice for their satanic Royal weddings probably. Lots of people were saying that something bad would happen close to it and it would involve the murder of children.

That was brilliant.

Oh ok more come from Derna and Tobruk than Benghazi according to your sources but it doesn't change the fact they are coming from eastern Libya near Benghazi (which is where the rebel stronghold is!) And based on foreign fighters per capita, Libya sends twice as much as Saudi Arabia(I'd put the chart on but I'm having problems getting it, it's in the third link) So what exactly is your point? That Tobruk and Derna send more fighters than Benghazi. The fact is that these 3 cities are known to be breeding ground for al qeada and other muslim extremists. Doesn't change what I said


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reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


NATO's Secretary General is Danish. So its not lead by the US.

The first actions in Libya were lead by French fighter jets at 1745 19 March, the US cruise missile strike began later in the evening.

Even now, US jets are only in reserve, the majority of sorties are flown by the UK, France, Norway, Denmark, Canada, Italy, etc.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
reply to post by MikeboydUS

 

Its a western coup.

How is this a coup? In Venezuela, high ranking officers tried to arrest Chavez. They detained him, declared a provisional government with interim president. The people demonstrated and they released Chavez.

There was a coup in Egypt. This mess in Libya is a revolt.

edit on 1/5/11 by MikeboydUS because: a

Venezuela, high ranking officers tried to arrest Chavez. They detained him, declared a provisional government with interim president. The people demonstrated and they released Chavez.

Venezuela, high ranking officers? sorry but you got your information from the western news press.
www.projectcensored.org...
www.counterpunch.org...

This mess in Libya is a revolt

Not a libyan revolt, the rebels are hired payed terrorists and overseas mercenaries, notice how your most trusted name in news networks never show the rebel stronghold? and yet they only show the areas around benghazi port city, thats where the terrorists are located.



Again the so called rebels aren't supported by the 6 million people, sure on the news on those footages they are convincing aren't they? but the reality is thats what the western news networks wants to see you.

There was a coup in Egypt.

And why was google CEO involve?

Eric Schmidt, Chairman and CEO of Google, and Jared Cohen, Adjunct Fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations and Director of Google Ideas at Google, highlight the potential of the technological development to revolutionize relations between countries and to empower citizens of oppressive regimes

Eric Schmidt and Jared Cohen comment, "The technology that has allowed millions to share photos and information is fast becoming the latest tool in political activism."

ON CFR Own Website
www.cfr.org...

reply to post by Immortalgemini527


Given that Gaddafi's torturing people, and killing innocent civilians...I really couldn't care less.

And just fyi, the majority if Muslims thinks Gaddafi's a bit of a joke