Prisoner saves $11,000 -- but state wants it to cover jail stay

Just so everyone is clear why this paragon of humanity is in prison:

Hawkins began working soon after he entered Stateville, where he was sentenced to 60 years for the 1980 slaying of a 65-year-old man and attempting to kill two Chicago policemen.

He isn't there because of a mistake. He isn't there because he smoked a joint, or crossed the street in the wrong place. He is there because he murdered an old man and attempted the murder of two policemen. Murder. Do you get it? Do you understand now? His murdered victim had family. You pity this piece of trash? Let's see, what does the family of the murdered victim get? Well, they get to not have their father/husband/brother/grandfather ever again, and they get to foot the bill for Hawkins to continue to be fed and cared for! Hawkins gets better treatment than the millions living on the streets! All he had to do was murder an old man! Wow, what a fair deal!

And to those that say "he has paid his debt to society" because he's been in prison for 20 years? How about this: he gets out when the LAST of the victim's family that ever remembers him dies. When the last person personally affected by this scum is gone, then he can be let out. Otherwise he can rot.

/TOA

Originally posted by MoonChild02

Originally posted by StigShen
reply to post by VictorVonDoom

 

Actually, it works right here in America. We have a larger prison population than China or Russia. And China has over a billion people, and still they have about a half-million fewer prisoners than us. So who's the real police state?

That would be China. China has less prisoners in their State prisons because they have prison towns, which don't count as State prisons. If they don't like what one person is saying in the town, and that person is an influential person in town, they put the whole town on lock-down. Nobody in, nobody out, until that one person dies, and their ideology along with them. One such town is on lock down simply because one man, an old, blind, lame man has stated outright that he is against forced abortion. In other words, speak out against the Chinese government, the town becomes a prison town.

You think we don't have prison towns right here in America? You go to any poor neighborhood, coast to coast, and you will quickly find that that Constitution does not protect you in those neighborhoods. Random searches, roadside strip searches, the whole nine yards.

Regardless of this man's crimes, acquisition of his savings would turn his labor in to slavery.
What incentive is there for a prisoner to work and better themselves if the State will confiscate their earnings.

For our justice system to be effective it should be designed to rehabilitate, not simply to punish people and make slaves of them.

Originally posted by The Old American
Just so everyone is clear why this paragon of humanity is in prison:

Hawkins began working soon after he entered Stateville, where he was sentenced to 60 years for the 1980 slaying of a 65-year-old man and attempting to kill two Chicago policemen.

He isn't there because of a mistake. He isn't there because he smoked a joint, or crossed the street in the wrong place. He is there because he murdered an old man and attempted the murder of two policemen. Murder. Do you get it? Do you understand now? His murdered victim had family. You pity this piece of trash? Let's see, what does the family of the murdered victim get? Well, they get to not have their father/husband/brother/grandfather ever again, and they get to foot the bill for Hawkins to continue to be fed and cared for! Hawkins gets better treatment than the millions living on the streets! All he had to do was murder an old man! Wow, what a fair deal!

And to those that say "he has paid his debt to society" because he's been in prison for 20 years? How about this: he gets out when the LAST of the victim's family that ever remembers him dies. When the last person personally affected by this scum is gone, then he can be let out. Otherwise he can rot.

/TOA

Yes, I am aware why he is in prison and no I do not think he is there by mistake and he is eligible for parole in 2028 so he'd be about 77 yrs old at that time. However, this case will not simply effect him it will effect all current and future inmates (regardless of their crime). It will give the state the ability to claim your assets.

I don't pity him, he committed a heinous crime and is in prison for it. At the time of his trial the state of Illinois had the death penalty, but that was not his sentence. The prison offered this program and accepted him to it. The prison is allowed to collect 3% of the wages they paid him, and they have garnished his check appropriately. He has done the work asked of him and followed all the rules for the program. If the state wants to get rid of the program fine, but that can't be retroactive and they need to honor their current obligations toward it.

I am angered because the state feels that should have the ability to seize his bank account (non criminally attained assets). The state is not claiming to do this because of the nature of his crime, they claim to be entitled because he is a prisoner. Therefore, this ruling would apply to all prisoners, not just murders or rapists, but all inmates and whenever they feel like doing so. He was not just sentenced, nor is he set for a release anytime soon, they randomly chose a date (a date where he had over 10,000 in assets) and decided they should be able to claim that money.

Originally posted by crash712us
Are you kidding people! Any one ever knew that have been in jail has to pay for there stay there. Maybe the laws are different from state to state, but he put himself there and made himself a burden on the tax payers. Absolutely 100% he owes the tax payers some reimbursement.

He didn't put himself there, we did. Yeah yeah yeah, he committed a crime. So what? You want criminals locked up in prison? Then pay for the service. But don't think that you are OWED protection by the police and the courts.

Wow im quiting this forum.....
You people want to make me cry, is all im gonna say.
Just not right.

reply to post by searching4truth


WTF. How are these people getting paid to be in Jail./ The person who authorized this policy them selves should be arrested immediatly and put in jail. This is absurd.

They are in jail and incarceratered as punishment. Then you go and give them money.

You stupid idiots.
I hope he keeps his money and the state gets a big goose egg. if anything if he is dead beat(no paying child support then I say take it and give it to the kids when the turn 16 give it to them.

reply to post by JohnnyTHSeed


I think you may forget he is in Jail and should not be allowed to work in the first place and i am sickened by the fact that he got paid.

Originally posted by CheyenneSG1
Do the Crime pay for your Time!

Indeed. No more tax dollars for courts, police, or prisons. From now on it has to be fully funded by convicts, criminals, and pancake breakfasts.

Originally posted by Rocky Black
reply to post by searching4truth

 

WTF. How are these people getting paid to be in Jail./ The person who authorized this policy them selves should be arrested immediatly and put in jail. This is absurd.

They are in jail and incarceratered as punishment. Then you go and give them money.

You stupid idiots.
I hope he keeps his money and the state gets a big goose egg. if anything if he is dead beat(no paying child support then I say take it and give it to the kids when the turn 16 give it to them.

They arent being paid to sit there in their cell.. they are being paid to actually do work. If you dont pay them its slave labor. As much as you look down on people who have made mistakes in their lives (you're perfect afterall), they are still people.

Originally posted by civilchallenger

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by civilchallenger

 

So the victims family lost nothing? Amazing the lengths to which people will go to defend a murderer and pretend he should even have been allowed to live, let alone send money home to his family.

Sometimes I wonder if some of the Posters here are posting from Prison themselves?

That is right. The victims family lost nothing as in NO THING. The focus being on thing. If someone takes a THING away from you that you own, you are entitled to financial damages to recover the thing. If someone takes away a PERSON from you, that is another matter. You don't own the person and there is no way you can be financially compensated to recover the loss. Once people are dead they cannot be revived given our current medical technology.

You are welcome to explain how *someone else* being damaged entitles YOU to monetary damage award. I notice that you didn't explain how you write off such an clearly reasonable statement in your response, so here is another chance to explain your self.

As for your comment implying that if a person believes a prisoner deserves basic human rights they must be posting from prison, your attitude is disgusting. Why don't you just come out and say you believe criminals are not people and do not deserve rights so we can be more clear about it? Rather than the round-about comments.

Actually, if you kill someone, intentionally or not, the family of the victim can indeed sue you for their loss. Oj Simpson's ex's family sued and won.

So if the family of this guy's victims want to sue him, they are free to do so. That has nothing to do with the state robbing this prisoner.

Originally posted by Rocky Black
reply to post by searching4truth

 

WTF. How are these people getting paid to be in Jail./ The person who authorized this policy them selves should be arrested immediatly and put in jail. This is absurd.

They are in jail and incarceratered as punishment. Then you go and give them money.

You stupid idiots.
I hope he keeps his money and the state gets a big goose egg. if anything if he is dead beat(no paying child support then I say take it and give it to the kids when the turn 16 give it to them.

Whether I agree with the program or not is irrelevant. The program exists in IL (since 1973) as it does in many other states, he followed the rules of the program and is entitled to the money that they paid him. The point is IF he had spent the money or sent it elsewhere prior to saving $10,000 the state would not be attempting to reclaim it.

He was attempting to give the money to his daughter (now approx. 28, she was 8 when he went to jail) and as far as I can tell he was trying to make up with her, as he couldn't pay child support.

Originally posted by searching4truth
reply to post by Gazrok

 

Absolutely. The only thing I would add, which puts the state in additional conflict, is that they have already garnished his wages 3% the maximum they are allowed to take under the law for his cost of living.

And like someone else brought up, prisoners are not paid the Federal minimum wage either. I think prisoners are now owed billions of dollars in lost wages for the state even bringing up such a stupid idea trying to rip this guy off.

Originally posted by pianopraze
As we live in an increasingly prison-state of the United States with a "patriot act" that allows them to warrentlessly investigate you and strip search you as you travel around, you might want to consider that they will be doing this to more and more on less guilty subjects.

One of them might be you in the future.

It's easy to give away others rights... but those are your rights in the end.

Yes, its entirely possible to see a scenario such as this -

Imagine you are traveling and get into a scuttle about some TSA agent that wants to
grope you, as he and his cohorts scope out the cash and jewelry in your bags.

You resist, and bam! Your a criminal.

Sad state of affars indeed.

Originally posted by StigShen

And like someone else brought up, prisoners are not paid the Federal minimum wage either. I think prisoners are now owed billions of dollars in lost wages for the state even bringing up such a stupid idea trying to rip this guy off.

Right. Assuming all prisoners are going to be held accountable for the cost of their incarceration then the state needs to pay them the minimum wage. Give the person their 2 dollars a day or whatever low rate they wish to pay and put the rest toward the cost of their stay.

While in prison, Hawkins made 2 dollars a day the state estimates that he cost 57 dollars a day. Currently the minimum wage in IL is $8.25/hour and he would have to 7 hours a day to cover his cost of living. On an 8 hour day, 7 hours would go back to the state and the 8.25 would be quite the raise from his present wage.

Originally posted by The Old American
Just so everyone is clear why this paragon of humanity is in prison:

Hawkins began working soon after he entered Stateville, where he was sentenced to 60 years for the 1980 slaying of a 65-year-old man and attempting to kill two Chicago policemen.

He isn't there because of a mistake. He isn't there because he smoked a joint, or crossed the street in the wrong place. He is there because he murdered an old man and attempted the murder of two policemen.
/TOA

Its sickening to think that this man could get paid to be in prision, really it is.
The entire system is broken, and corrupt.

reply to post by AndrewJay


They should be working to pay off debt to society they deserve no pay period.

This makes me sick to think these guys commited murder rape and robbery.

Yes I think the are in jail as punishment.

it is my opinion that they should have money taken out of the social security to pay for the stay while incarcerated.

You shoul not have a room and breakfast and dinner served and a hot shower for free.

Who do they think they are. I dont have free rent why should they.


Where is Arizona Joe when you need him.

Why do you think the repeat offend. They got in made in the poke.

Hell if I was broke that would be the sleep away camp I would enroll in anyday..


Lets see.

Room with blackets to sleep.
Paid to perform silly tasks.
Get to lift weights all day.
Get to go out and shoot some hoops
Get to watch cable tv
Get to play video games and watch tv in your rooms.

hell my kids dont even have tv in the bed room. Well because I am against that. The bedroom is for sleeping.


But any way.

That sounds like a sleep away camp. Not Jail.

My opinion and I have a right to it.

Originally posted by The Old American
Just so everyone is clear why this paragon of humanity is in prison:

Hawkins began working soon after he entered Stateville, where he was sentenced to 60 years for the 1980 slaying of a 65-year-old man and attempting to kill two Chicago policemen.

He isn't there because of a mistake. He isn't there because he smoked a joint, or crossed the street in the wrong place. He is there because he murdered an old man and attempted the murder of two policemen. Murder. Do you get it? Do you understand now? His murdered victim had family. You pity this piece of trash? Let's see, what does the family of the murdered victim get? Well, they get to not have their father/husband/brother/grandfather ever again, and they get to foot the bill for Hawkins to continue to be fed and cared for! Hawkins gets better treatment than the millions living on the streets! All he had to do was murder an old man! Wow, what a fair deal!

And to those that say "he has paid his debt to society" because he's been in prison for 20 years? How about this: he gets out when the LAST of the victim's family that ever remembers him dies. When the last person personally affected by this scum is gone, then he can be let out. Otherwise he can rot.

/TOA

IT doesn't make any difference what he did. The penalty for murder is not prison plus $11,000. You make the the precedent for one, it is the precedent for all. Murderers, support dodgers, pot smokers, whatever.

Aside from that, you don't know the circumstances of that murder. You say "old man" as a tug at the hearstrings. But that holds no weight with me.

GARLAND, Texas — A 66-year-old Dallas-area man is dead after, according to police, he threatened officers with a gun.

www.therepublic.com...

As far as attempting to kill two cops? Pffft. Who can blame him when it's the police who are protecting a system so corrupt that we even have to have this conversation.

reply to post by kera1337


Hang in there he is wrong and we are right ok.

Some people are convicts here that are still in jail. Yes we do give them that privledge as well.

We should lock them up and make them pay the person and family they hurt. Not no free sleep away camp.


Hang in there we are not all clouded.

This man knew what he was doing when he attempted to kill two police officers after he killed a 65 year old man! It was wrong of him to do it. He never said why he done it or how he done it or what set him off to do it. If any one has any info on this case about this please share. i'm just curious as to what this 65 year older man done to him to make him kill him.