Prisoner saves $11,000 -- but state wants it to cover jail stay

reply to post by civilchallenger


So the victims family lost nothing? Amazing the lengths to which people will go to defend a murderer and pretend he should even have been allowed to live, let alone send money home to his family.

Sometimes I wonder if some of the Posters here are posting from Prison themselves?

reply to post by Blaine91555


Who is innocent?

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by civilchallenger

 

So the victims family lost nothing? Amazing the lengths to which people will go to defend a murderer and pretend he should even have been allowed to live, let alone send money home to his family.

Sometimes I wonder if some of the Posters here are posting from Prison themselves?

This isn't about one murderer or whether or not we should feel sorry for him. It is about the precedent.

Originally posted by syncelebrity
reply to post by StigShen

 

They get tv's, heated rooms at 70 degrees, beds( those who cant sleep can request memory foam), Huge meals that are fresh prepared (most of the time), phone calls, any medical attention they ask for, some get tobacco, Junk food, free lawyer representation to be used against the doc and state as well as co's. The list go's on and on.

I had a family member that me and my brother used to go visit during several years of his federal incarceration. I remember all the times him and the other inmates would come to the visiting room. They'd all be happy, talking about the great food there and fun times being had by all. It sounded pretty nice, especially for free.

Nah, I'm just kidding. All I remember was a room full of hopelessness so thick you could feel it. Desperate and haunted expressions. Being told they tried to make you work and how company xyz was now running the prison and how even basic needs were hard to come by. Oh, and all the poor families that had to sit in the waiting room. Almost every one of them poor and left to desperate circumstances. Yeah, prison is where everybody wants to be. Not. I could just imagine living through that for years and saving up 11k just to be told that they own your soul and you'll never be free. Welcome to hell on earth. Good enough for the casually judgmental whom will never know it and the end of life for those who end up there.

reply to post by Apollumi


When I was locked up in county I had it pretty good because I knew people. But I can tell you it was no joy. I got put in a special privileges block, but its still not a place I would ever try to back to. And it's not just about the booty boys who try to be your friend, or the itchy blankets and plastic gym mat mattress. Being locked up, there's something about it you can't quite describe to someone who has never been there. A mental thing. Can break a man really. Part of me died in that jail the first night that cell door slammed home.

People are sent to prison AS punishment, not FOR punishment so if once they are imprisoned they are given the opportunity to make money and instead choose to save this instead of spend on things they are allowed to, then it is no one's business.

If the prison system wanted people to have items of comfort in payment for work done, then change the system from cash to a credit system. Remove the ability to save, and ensure they either spend it on items provided in the prison, or lose it.

It's ridiculous to take him to court, no matter the crime he committed, for saving the money he worked for.

And those saying it's a crime itself to allow him to earn money, take it out on the prison system that allowed it, not the prisoner who did nothing wrong while imprisoned and punished already for the crime he committed.

How does this guy owe that much to the state? The taxpayers of Illinois, including the families of his dead victim, have to fork over their hard-earned cash to pay for his room and board, his 3 meals a day, his cable TV, his meds when he gets sick, etc. Surely they have paid his debt to society for him.

/TOA

If anything, the money shouldgo to the victims.

Disgusting.

I don't care if this man committed murder or stole a TV. It doesn't matter. To take such an authoritative stance, in remarking "prisoners don't deserve anything", or "he murdered someone", just makes me wonder about you people. If they succeed in seizing his assets, then it creates a precedent. So it would apply to anyone in the future, including people that shouldn't be there or are being harshly and unjustly punished for victimless crimes against the state, i.e. "marijuana possession", etc. It also leaves the detained in a completely vulnerable state, should they ever leave prison. They would not be able to support themselves in any way, or provide any sort of support to anyone while in prison.

Also, you people who say that prisoners have a good life, when you aptly compare it to your own "good life".. Well, all I can say to that is, you're pathetic. Maybe you need rethink your current living conditions if you think a "good life" is cable TV and 3 crap meals a day. Oh, they have "junk food" in prison, how spoiled! You people are sad. What do you compare your "good lives" with to say such a thing... complete poverty? I'm sure everything is better than poverty, but if you're comparing your life with those of prisoners and coming out even, then you are a loser and really taking the piss when it comes to perceiving your own sad reality.

Honestly, your life is pathetic if you can parallel your luxuries to "prison luxuries", and you are apathetic for not realizing it, and thus furthering the status quo of capitalism in the justice system.

Here's my two cents:

He did something bad. He went to jail for it. He worked in jail to earn money.

In the real world, you earn money to keep a roof over your head and food in your belly.

In prison, you have a roof over your head and food in your belly. You are there because of something YOU did. If you are earning money while there, then the money you earn should go toward the cost of OTHERS to keep that roof over your head and food in your belly as well as some meager supplies.

I am not saying every single prisoner should pay back every single dime that went to their housing (otherwise, how would they be contributing members of society? You've already doomed them to repeat the cycle if you do take every penny they earn while free). I am saying they shouldn't get to keep every dime the earned while in prison and receiving room and board.

reply to post by nunya13


The only thing you work for is food and shelter? He was going to give the money to his kid. What did his kid do wrong?

Aside from that, what you are talking about is slavery. What's the point of working while you're in prison if they are just going to take the money?

More to the point though, how he earned the money is irrelevant. They didn't hold the checks when they got issued did they? No, they decided to seize his bank account. So you let this happen, that means say you get sent to the clink for beating the hell out of some guy that raped your girlfriend. Next thing you know your woman is out on the street because they seized your bank account and took the house.

Now fine, if you want to say that prisoners are not entitled to earn money on the inside, fine. But the government has no right to steal from someone just because they are a convict.

I can't believe some of the answers in this thread. As someone mentioned, you send people to prison as punishment not for punishment. The UN has international requirements for prisoner treatment and the US is not meeting them as it is.

Now you want the prisoner to pay for his stay? Yet, the private companies are making money off of the whole process? And they make more money by cutting costs in the prisons by denying people basics. This is ridiculous. People that advocate this person losing this case are making a very arrogant/ignorant assessment of the situation. This sets precedents, meaning all prisoners can lose things they worked for.

I would like to ask how would you feel if this person was moving into your neighborhood after they were released? Also, how would you feel if someone in your family made a mistake and ended up there? Would you want them to suffer the same consequences?

This outright indignant attitude towards other human beings in the USA is why the country is failing. I'm not advocating people breaking the law or justifying some of the heinous crimes that are committed but if you want society to act a certain way you need to accept everyone. Because eventually these people will come out and you (society) will have to deal with the consequences of how they were treated.

Unless you want to enact the death penalty on every petty crime you will not rid the world of people who foul up. The US government has acted criminally, the financial institutions have also, and people are so focused on 'real criminals' because they are being distracted by real criminals.

Newsflash, private prisons lobby governments for longer penalties because they make money on warehousing people. If they offered actual, decent work programs they could be rehabilitating and earning money with inmate labor. But they milk your tax dollars, pay groups for anti-crime ads, and then want more and more money.

Take a look in other countries, the US has the highest prison population for a reason. And it isn't a good reason.

Originally posted by boncho
... This sets precedents, meaning all prisoners can lose things they worked for...

Its not even that. If he went to prison with 11 grand in the bank that was an inheritance from a dead relative, they would seize that too. That is the precedent being set, not how he earned the money.

You go to prison with your kid's college fund in your bank account. They can take that too.

Let this be a lesson. If you are ever sent to prison, refuse to work. Not for any money, any privileges, or any reason. You don't cook, you don't clean, you don't do anything for anyone, not even yourself. Being a prisoner is one thing, being a slave is another. They can lock up your body, but they can't enslave you unless you allow it. As soon as the government figures they can get free labor by incarcerating people, more people will be incarcerated. Works well in Russia and China.

Make it cost them to hold you, don't make it profitable for them.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by civilchallenger

 

So the victims family lost nothing? Amazing the lengths to which people will go to defend a murderer and pretend he should even have been allowed to live, let alone send money home to his family.

Sometimes I wonder if some of the Posters here are posting from Prison themselves?

Are you really being that ridiculous? You're making a lot of assumptions in this thread, Blaine. You sound like an over-the-top authoritarian fascist, yourself.

Maybe you've experienced loss at the hands of a criminal, or know someone who has. Either way, no one in this thread is advocating violence, crime, or supporting it in any way. Quite the contrary, they're advocating human rights and denying ignorance by realizing the bleak future should a precedent be made in this case.

You're making a rather baseless, emotional argument that has no bearing in anything being discussed. The court isn't looking to seize his assets because he's such a horrible man, they're trying to collect on a debt, and they are the debtors. They sentenced him, the incurred all the fees and exorbitant charges with detaining this man. Half a million dollars. How could any man pay that, let alone an incarcerated senior. Ridiculous.

The only thing this will accomplish, should the precedent gain headway, is an extremely drastic increase in crime inside and out of prison and a general decrease in quality of life conditions for the entire country. A draconian, authoritarian state has consequences. Even for the apathetic and unaffected supporters quite similar to yourself.

If the state can't afford to detain people on this level, then they have no competent reason to continue incarcerating such a massive percentage of the State's population. Largest in the world, by far, as said in this thread and many, many others.

reply to post by VictorVonDoom


Actually, it works right here in America. We have a larger prison population than China or Russia. And China has over a billion people, and still they have about a half-million fewer prisoners than us. So who's the real police state?

The thing is though, they don't really profit from prison labor. They profit from the entire system. Everything from cops, to construction of prisons, to fines and courts, on and on. But if this goes through, it will be a HUGE cash cow.

This is what they will do. As soon as you go in, they will seize all of your assets to be held in "trust." When you are released, it will be returned to you, less the cost of your stay. But do you think they will ever actually give you back your money?

reply to post by StigShen


I know. Just making a point. Glad somebody got it. Thanks.

Originally posted by VictorVonDoom
reply to post by StigShen

 

I know. Just making a point. Glad somebody got it. Thanks.

This sort of thing with the seizing assets started years ago in the drug war. You get caught with a few pot plants on your property, next thing you know the Feds have seized the fifth generation family farm, the equipment, the cars, put your wife and kids out on the street. And for what? Because you made a few grand last year selling weed?

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by searching4truth

 

He murdered an old man and attempted to kill two others. Whether he deserves whatever he gets is moot as he does deserve it. The money should go to the victims family though and not the State. No Murderer should ever be able to profit or save money while in jail.

Of course in Illinois they may make him Governor before it's over.

This is the same kind of stupidity that has created a failing prison system in America. He's been locked up, he's done his time. Sure he took a life that can never be replaced and I hope it is eating him up inside. He has made a mistake that we can never forgive or forget but by taking someone's wealth after they leave prison, you are just launching them back into a vicous cycle of crime. This is exactly why America has the highest imprisoment rate in the the world. You fail to rehabilitate prisoners.

Wtf?
What is the damned point of making them work in the prison and earn money if your just going to take it away again?
What the H is the point of releasing them from prison with nothing? How to you expect him to do anything else but crime if that is all he knows when he gets out?

Your prison systems idiocy infuriates me at times.. Americants(yes I'm using that word in this instance, not commonly), you have ONLY yourselves to blame for the high incarceration rate and your extremely high repeat offenders rate.

Sure in Norway here most of our prisons are 3 star hotels and that fact does make me angry at times but guess what we have some of the lowest repeat offenders rate because we actually make an effort to help these peolpe integrate back into society instead of throwing them out exactly as they came in!!

If he is not allowed to care for his daughter with the slave wages he got for working for the prison then why not just kill him.... your taking away everything else he cares for.. and yes i know he took away a life as well which could have been everything someone else cared for but if your damn self destructing eye for an eye mentality is so strong over there then kill him now!... arrrggh so much rage!

Most criminals do not do acts of crime because they want to, they do it because the circumstances of their upbringing has left them with the feeling of no other option. NOONE is born a criminal they become criminals because of their life situations these people need help if you do not help then while they are in jail then you might as well kill them as there is no other reason to keep them alive other then being cash cows for the private prison industry!