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Prisoner saves $11,000 -- but state wants it to cover jail stay

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posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 04:10 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Alright I'm done argueing over this.

No matter what you believe you are all wrong and I am right.





posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by boncho
I don't care if there was a videotape in 3D I wouldn't vote to convict a father that killed someone who killed their kid.


That is simply a corruption of law then, and you are therefore pro-corruption

Sure...it makes heart sense..what about a man whom killed someone whom raped his daughter? What about if the daughter was 15 and he was 18? What about killing a man whom beat the hell out of your wife? before you were married in her last marriage...

See, one you compromise your judgement, you are open to deciding law based on your personal values..and so is the next guy

I can see the point and even understand a criminals behavior...be it simply stealing from the cash register at work to be able to pay rent, to murdering someone...I can sympathise, I can even relate when all the facts are out (I make no illusion that I am somehow a different species than them..one of my protections is that I know full well I along with everyone else can do anything given the right circumstances..I don't fool myself like most do).

Because I can understand and relate to them does not mean I will vote in their favor..law is law, emotion is emotion, they should not meet.



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by Rocky Black
reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Alright I'm done argueing over this.

No matter what you believe you are all wrong and I am right.



I believe your right



(which makes you wrong and me right)



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 04:12 PM
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Originally posted by Rocky Black
reply to post by StigShen
 


That is because the justice system is flawed in a manner the procecuters are forced to try the person to prevent vigalanties.

It is a coomon practice...



Yes, the system is flawed. Yet here you are defending this broken system tooth and nail, when they come up with the idea to rob inmates and institute slavery.

Do you seriously not understand that this is about precedent, not the $11,000?

For all we know, this murderer is in prison for killing some chester who just raped his daughter, and then took a shot at the police when they showed up. But it doesn't really matter anyway. The government has NO RIGHT to steal from anyone. This man never agreed to pay for his jail stay, there is no contract, there was no stipulation handed down at his sentencing.



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 04:12 PM
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reply to post by Rocky Black
 


Well, we agree on the one issue. We can agree to disagree on the other.



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 04:31 PM
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The whole system is a big mess from the top down there are no such thing as innocents or just people, and with the whole privatization of prisons which is just cheap labor. This guy probably made lots of people lots of money making furniture for 2$ a day, and the 11K he got for all his labor during his 20 years, well you get the picture it most likely made somebody pretty rich, and the taxpayer's funded this and other operations like it.

Really there is nothing good here, not the inmate and his crime, or the system in place to take advantage of such people. It's one big cluster#. Thats why I said it before and I'll say it again. The system does not work, stay away from the good and the just, because there is nothing good or just about the whole thing, it's just a self propelled spiral that feeds off itself and creates victims for itself, and leads ever downward to those who get caught up in its machination, and yes it is about profit, just as much as it is about handling crime and criminals. And somebody already said it, this civilization churns out more people, then there is jobs or ways of living, so really that is the catalyst that makes this what it is.



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 04:33 PM
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Originally posted by StigShen

Originally posted by mtnshredder

So what you are saying is that the state can rob, torture, and murder you, so long they say you are a criminal, right?

Warm up the ovens.

If you kill someone and the evidence is indisputable by all standards including DNA, eyewitness, etc.....Yes crank up the ovens as high as they can go. How is he being robbed or tortured? What about his victims, you don't think they were robbed and tortured?
I'm not saying fry them all, we all make mistakes and some shouldn't even be in there. I've know many that have done time that our now productive law abiding citizens. We do need more rehab in our prisons to help them live a better life when they get out but when it comes to murder and ruining innocent lifes.....fire up the boiler.

I feel the same about child molesters and rapist too, screw'em. Maybe they should have thought a little longer on the reprucussions of their actions.
edit on 16-3-2011 by mtnshredder because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 04:50 PM
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reply to post by Rocky Black
 


Not everyone in prison is a murderer you know.

Even those who are murderers are not all rampaging, psychopathic killers either.

I knew of a lady in one of Her Majesty's Prisons for murdering her husband. She told me she had stabbed him in their kitchen when she was cooking. She was an Asian lady in her 60's who had difficulty walking, and had stayed in an unhappy arranged marriage since she was 14 years old. She told me her husband was a violent bully who had dominated her from the beginning of the marriage, he beat her mercilessly and humiliated her for years and treated her as if she were less than an animal. Anything and everything she did or didn't do infuriated him.

She told me that on the day she killed him, it was because he was yet again angry and was making his way into the kitchen to beat her, she turned to face him and struck out with the knife she had in her hands. She said she was terrified of him, and was so scared he would get up off the floor and attack her, and she stabbed him again.
She went to the police station to give herself up as soon as she realised what she had done, but after listening they laughed and sent her home in a taxi. She returned to the police the next morning, this time they took her seriously.

Although this lady killed her husband, she wasn't a cold-blooded, sadistic killer. Believe it or believe it not, I found her to be the sweetest, kindest, most gentle person I have ever met in my life. She was a lovely old lady.

How did I know her?

She was in 'E' Block, H.M.P. New Hall, in the prison cell next to mine.

And I'm not a murderer either.

edit on 16-3-2011 by doobydoll because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-3-2011 by doobydoll because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 04:57 PM
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Originally posted by StigShen
IT doesn't make any difference what he did. The penalty for murder is not prison plus $11,000. You make the the precedent for one, it is the precedent for all. Murderers, support dodgers, pot smokers, whatever.

Aside from that, you don't know the circumstances of that murder. You say "old man" as a tug at the hearstrings. But that holds no weight with me.


GARLAND, Texas — A 66-year-old Dallas-area man is dead after, according to police, he threatened officers with a gun.

www.therepublic.com...


There are circumstances for murder? You're actually standing up for this man? There are NO excuses for murder. And I guess with that link you're trying to show that an old man can be dangerous. He can, but Hawkins isn't in prison for self-defense is he?


As far as attempting to kill two cops? Pffft. Who can blame him when it's the police who are protecting a system so corrupt that we even have to have this conversation.


So, by your view it's OK to murder cops? Interesting viewpoint.

/TOA



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 05:12 PM
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Originally posted by mtnshredder

If you kill someone and the evidence is indisputable by all standards including DNA, eyewitness, etc.....Yes crank up the ovens as high as they can go. How is he being robbed or tortured? What about his victims, you don't think they were robbed and tortured?
I'm not saying fry them all, we all make mistakes and some shouldn't even be in there. I've know many that have done time that our now productive law abiding citizens. We do need more rehab in our prisons to help them live a better life when they get out but when it comes to murder and ruining innocent lifes.....fire up the boiler.

I feel the same about child molesters and rapist too, screw'em. Maybe they should have thought a little longer on the reprucussions of their actions.
edit on 16-3-2011 by mtnshredder because: (no reason given)


You can't have it both ways. You can't say "some" prisoners are good and some are bad. And there is no such thing as indisputable evidence. Texas put a man to death last year who has since been proved innocent.

And what about the victims? They had their chance to make their victim impact statements at sentencing. The sentence for murder is not 20-to-life, plus torture, plus slave labor, plus we seize all of your assets.

Two wrongs don't make a right. You go down that road, and you are just as evil as the person you are judging.



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 05:17 PM
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There's a good idea: Put ex-convicts into tremendous debt so that they are FORCED back into crime.

Brilliant. While they're at it, why don't they just give them a gun when they leave prison?



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 05:18 PM
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You people that keep shouting that the prison system is slavery need to bone up on Section 1 of the 13th Amendment. If you don't like it write your Congressman.


Originally posted by harrytuttle
There's a good idea: Put ex-convicts into tremendous debt so that they are FORCED back into crime.

Brilliant. While they're at it, why don't they just give them a gun when they leave prison?


I'm in debt and yet, somehow, I don't steal other people's stuff, or murder them or do really anything else that puts a person in prison. Odd that, huh?

/TOA
edit on 16-3-2011 by The Old American because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 05:19 PM
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reply to post by The Old American
 


Well, I wouldn't say it's okay to kill cops, but it's their job to step into the line of fire.

No tears for dead cops

And while I don't condone murder either, there are all sorts of facts and circumstances that play a role in any homicide. From the most depraved serial killer, to the drunk cop who runs down a pedestrian.



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 05:24 PM
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reply to post by The Old American
 


Well, let's not get into the fact that the 13th Amendment itself is unconstitutional. But yes, as it stands involuntary servitude is a legal punishment for convicts. What is NOT legal, is seizing the property of convicts.



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 05:43 PM
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reply to post by Blaine91555
 


i understand where you stand on him not deserving the money and it should go to the victims families, but he did serve the time. I think that should count for something. I have been thru the system, (and I blame only myself) yet I paid my price and I was young and stupid. I'm sure he had plenty of time to think about what he did. He earned the money honestly. The pay the prisoners program was part of the "rehabilitating" idea of prison. lol. SMH



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 06:05 PM
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As horrible as his crime was, The constitution, does not allow the government to pass any law infringing upon the rights of a particular people or group. This is just wrong in my opinion. If you let the saleman get his foot in the door, you are just asking for trouble.

It is a slippery slope, we best not get near, lest we all be slaves to the government.



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 07:35 PM
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Originally posted by mtnshredder

Originally posted by StigShen

Originally posted by mtnshredder

So what you are saying is that the state can rob, torture, and murder you, so long they say you are a criminal, right?

Warm up the ovens.

If you kill someone and the evidence is indisputable by all standards including DNA, eyewitness, etc.....Yes crank up the ovens as high as they can go. How is he being robbed or tortured? What about his victims, you don't think they were robbed and tortured?
I'm not saying fry them all, we all doublethinkdoublethinkdoublethinkdoublethinkdoublethinkdoublethinkdoublethinkdoublethinkdoublethinkdoublethinkdoublethinkdoublethinkdoublethinkdoublet hinkdoublethinkdoublethinkdoublethinkdoublethinkdoublethinkdoublethinkdoublethinkdoublethinkdoublethinkdoublethinkdoublethinkdoublethinkdoublethinkdou blethinkdoublethinkdoublethinkdoublethinkdoublethinkdoublethinkdoublethinkdoublethinkdoublethinkdoublethinkdoublethinkdoublethinkdoublethinkdoublethin k


Sorry for singling your post out, but this thread is full of hypocritical doublethink. The state sanctioned thievery will not be limited to only "the really bad" criminals. So many people in this thread appear not to care about basic human rights.



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 07:44 PM
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Maybe every one of the officers that were complicit in the murder of Oscar Grant should forfeit every dollar they ever made on the job...

(Caution: Explicit language, deadly violence)



The cop that pulled the trigger got two years.

stationsixunderground.blogspot.com...



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 08:06 PM
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reply to post by Rocky Black
 


troll much?

second line.



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 08:32 PM
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I should have read the article more carefully. This is really more scary than I thought. The precedent has already been set. In Illinois it is already established that the state can sue an inmate to recover costs. The only thing that is in question is whether or not they can seize funds that the prisoner has earned while incarcerated, if they have already garnished his wage at 3% for those costs.


In the last eight years, the department has brought more than 200 suits against current and former inmates, Elman said. The department has tried to seize inheritances and awards from personal-injury cases, said James Chapman, a Chicago lawyer who has represented prisoners in such claims...

Glad and David Simonton, also of SNR Denton, argued that the Corrections Department had already deducted 3 percent of his wages, about $751, to pay for his incarceration and was not allowed to collect more. The Illinois attorney general's office, representing the Corrections Department, said the state is not limited by the wage offset from later filing a civil suit seeking more funds.




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