New findings in Azores, new evidence of Atlantis?

Originally posted by Harte
I see what you're saying now, but I (of course) completely disagree.

First, Atlantis never existed and there is no mythos - no cultural belief, not even a weird story, in any known Egyptian setting concerning anything that resembles Atlantis in the least.

The same is true for all other cultures - including the Greeks.

Also, there is no evidence (other than the Bible) for Moses' existence. At the time Moses was in Egypt (assuming he was,) if the people he led out were actually Hebrews, then the story of the Garden of Eden, Abraham, the Flood, etc. were already known.

Harte

Well im certainly not an advocate of the Bible as a book of whole truths or a book of god, but I do think its entirely possible that the Sumerian myths somehow made it out of Sumer and could of made it to Egypt.

While the theoretical Moses was supposed to of led Hebrews out of Egypt he was also supposed to of been raised as an Egyptian (if he existed) and the books of the old testament have been written by someone... It seems possible to me that the Sumerian stories are the source of both the Atlantis myths or legends and the Genesis myths or legends.

Im not terribly clever and I dont really know a lot about the subject but the myths or legends have come from somewhere whether made up or based on an old story and there does seem to me to be a link to Egypt and Sumer but the chances are I'm totally confused and talking utter bunkum

It is clear that the legend of atlantis is based on the minoan empire in particular, the city state of Akrotiri, on the island of thera.
It was destroyed around 1650 ish bc at that is about 1000 years before solon

Originally posted by Versa

Originally posted by Harte
I see what you're saying now, but I (of course) completely disagree.

First, Atlantis never existed and there is no mythos - no cultural belief, not even a weird story, in any known Egyptian setting concerning anything that resembles Atlantis in the least.

The same is true for all other cultures - including the Greeks.

Also, there is no evidence (other than the Bible) for Moses' existence. At the time Moses was in Egypt (assuming he was,) if the people he led out were actually Hebrews, then the story of the Garden of Eden, Abraham, the Flood, etc. were already known.

Harte

Well im certainly not an advocate of the Bible as a book of whole truths or a book of god, but I do think its entirely possible that the Sumerian myths somehow made it out of Sumer and could of made it to Egypt.

While the theoretical Moses was supposed to of led Hebrews out of Egypt he was also supposed to of been raised as an Egyptian (if he existed) and the books of the old testament have been written by someone... It seems possible to me that the Sumerian stories are the source of both the Atlantis myths or legends and the Genesis myths or legends.

Im not terribly clever and I dont really know a lot about the subject but the myths or legends have come from somewhere whether made up or based on an old story and there does seem to me to be a link to Egypt and Sumer but the chances are I'm totally confused and talking utter bunkum

I get what you're saying, Versa, and I agree. Although I don't believe that a single person from the torrah or bible ever, ever existed, the stories around the world share characteristics and I feel as though they much have spawned from somewhere. However, I doubt it was Sumer. My reasoning behind this is because Sumer was around from 5300-2400 BC. At that same time, humans had well made their way into South america in the Andean region, and knowledge of Sumer, to the Andean cultures, was probably none. Viracocha, the main god of the Inca, and father of Pachamama (mother earth) had a story with characteristics similar to that of the bible (great flood to kill everyone, giants, peasants performing miracles, created the heavens and earth, etc.)

Now, this doesn't make me believe any of these stories, I'm still an atheist that believes the stories arent true and are merely myths that stemmed from somewhere. I just don't believe it was Sumer.

reply to post by Schmidt1989


"Much of our ignorance of ancient cultures can be placed at the feet of close-minded theorist who ignore evidence that does not fit their theories or fall within the province of their expertise" - Unknown

Originally posted by Schmidt1989
Atlantis never existed. Therefore we will never find evidence for it.

That is what they said about Troy also.....

This is interesting, thank you OP

My wife and her family come from the Azores. My father inlaw says many people from there believe they are descendants of Atlantis, so there may be a slant or agenda toward finding evidence of such or proof of earlier civilization in the area from those who live there.

good find !

Originally posted by Harte

There was already much older proof of ancient culture traveling the eastern Atlantic.

The Phoenicians had tin mines in Britain a thousand years before the era you're talking about.

EDIT: Do you think it odd that " modern academia' didn't hesitate to reveal this fact about Phoenicia?

Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the "current historical model" prior to disparaging it.

Harte

i am intrigued harte. have they found something phoenician in britain? or are you citing waddell and strabo?
didn't the phoenicians get their tin in the underworld where their mythical hercules had been the king?

Originally posted by Schmidt1989
Socrates* said Atlantis was around 9000-10000 years ago. Not 2000. In fact, if 2000 is an accurate age, then the ruins are even younger than socrates.

Atlantis was apparently destroyed. There is no record by any other civilization that says this happened. There are no records of Atlantis at all. It's pure fiction, and was most likely Socrates' imagination of what he thought the perfect world looked like.

Atlantis never existed. Therefore we will never find evidence for it.

I often find it funny (and bizarre) when people say things like "The higher ups don't want our historical record to change" or whatever. Bullcrap. Read a book and learn something about the world.

are you suggesting there should be something written in someones history about an event that took place in 9000bc? seems like you have odd expectations but coincidently...

science says that there were advanced people in a correct part of the world doing what they were supposed to have been doing for the reasons they were supposed to.have been doing it. that is our history right now.

would you say the great circular vara of yima and his rectangular refuge cursus would fall into the same *impossibility of ever finding them* category as atlantis?

Originally posted by Byrd

Originally posted by Versa

Originally posted by Schmidt1989
Atlantis was apparently destroyed. There is no record by any other civilization that says this happened. There are no records of Atlantis at all. It's pure fiction, and was most likely Socrates' imagination of what he thought the perfect world looked like.

Is it not possible that the story is actually another version of the flood stories recounted by the Sumerian's and in Genesis?

No, the similarities aren't that great. The Sumerians were off the world scene by then (replaced by the Assyrians, who weren't much admired) and the Hebrews had not yet put the Torah together into the "old Testament" at the time of Socrates. Socrates' tale is very explicit about dimensions and structure. Folks often try to explain changes to an area to justify it being Atlantis (and conveniently ignoring Socrates' statement that it is still a vast swampy mudflat somewhere in the ocean.)

ahhh but one little abzu of enki and the jig is up byrd.

how big was atlantis anyway? huge? whats a stade? a thousand strides?
and wasn't atlantis in oceanus? which was freshwater? the flooded plain of atlas part it to be specific? the veritable sea?

Originally posted by DemonSpeedN
reply to post by Schmidt1989

 

"Much of our ignorance of ancient cultures can be placed at the feet of close-minded theorist who ignore evidence that does not fit their theories or fall within the province of their expertise" - Unknown

Right. I didn't realize you were an archaeologist, and thought like one. Anyway...

Originally posted by Parta

Originally posted by Schmidt1989
Socrates* said Atlantis was around 9000-10000 years ago. Not 2000. In fact, if 2000 is an accurate age, then the ruins are even younger than socrates.

Atlantis was apparently destroyed. There is no record by any other civilization that says this happened. There are no records of Atlantis at all. It's pure fiction, and was most likely Socrates' imagination of what he thought the perfect world looked like.

Atlantis never existed. Therefore we will never find evidence for it.

I often find it funny (and bizarre) when people say things like "The higher ups don't want our historical record to change" or whatever. Bullcrap. Read a book and learn something about the world.

are you suggesting there should be something written in someones history about an event that took place in 9000bc? seems like you have odd expectations but coincidently...

science says that there were advanced people in a correct part of the world doing what they were supposed to have been doing for the reasons they were supposed to.have been doing it. that is our history right now.

would you say the great circular vara of yima and his rectangular refuge cursus would fall into the same *impossibility of ever finding them* category as atlantis?

Please read all the subsequent posts, and you'll find that your post is invalid.

reply to post by Schmidt1989


sorry i haven't seen anything that said i shouldn't chuckle at your suggestion that there should be something in someones history about an event that took place 11k years ago to make atlantis valid in some way.

as i then pointed out real western science can't say atlantis isn't true yet. science as it stands has people in it that actually did what plato plagerized they did when he plagerized they did it. there are real scientific simple reasons for and it all and it even includes brand new freshwater seas that noone knew existed. its good orthodox science.

what about the varas of yima question? would you say they are impossibilities? same level of fantasy?

Originally posted by Parta
reply to post by Schmidt1989

 

sorry i haven't seen anything that said i shouldn't chuckle at your suggestion that there should be something in someones history about an event that took place 11k years ago to make atlantis valid in some way.

as i then pointed out real western science can't say atlantis isn't true yet. science as it stands has people in it that actually did what plato plagerized they did when he plagerized they did it. there are real scientific simple reasons for and it all and it even includes brand new freshwater seas that noone knew existed. its good orthodox science.

what about the varas of yima question? would you say they are impossibilities? same level of fantasy?

Who plagiarized what?

reply to post by Schmidt1989


from the day he died, plato was accused of plagerizing zoroaster. the greeks thought zoroaster lived at least 5000 years before troy.

reply to post by Parta


Accused, really? that's it. Besides the claim do you have any concrete evidence that Plato "plagiarized", and whats worse you think an ancient scholar that was way smarter than you would do something like that C"MON!!!

reply to post by Schmidt1989


You never know who your really talking to on the internet. Well I may not be someone with a degree that says I'm an archaeologist but believe me that's the only difference between me and a "Real" archaeologist.

reply to post by DemonSpeedN


are you at all familiar with zoroasters story of yima? the guy that builds a three canaled huge city which is destoryed by flood but he survives in a cursus god tells him to build on high ground?

have you ever looked into that place gadeira in the atlantis story? its claim to fame is a big cursus that belongs to poseidon. it survives the flood.

the stories are both on a freshwater sea.

reply to post by Parta


Not before but now I have and it's just another version of the creation/ Flood legend, there are so many out there just about every civilization has at least one, some have more than one. With that said I still don't see you proof in calling a Plato a plagiarizer.

reply to post by DemonSpeedN


i agree. the mesopotamians have enki and his bolts that flood and the abzu enclosure that survives in the freshwater sea. the egyptians have the hidden circles of re and their enclosure in neserser. anyone else have a multicircular city structure that is flooded by a freshwater sea and an enclosure that survives? there is the bahitra of vishnu.

Anyway, back on topic (not that anyone seems interested in the OP ) - it would be interesting to know how many of these supposed funerary ruins have been found. Assuming they all date to around the same time it might in fact be evidence that ......... a ship from the Eastern Med got lost and the sailors were shipwrecked on the Azores. Nothing more. Especially given that until know there has been no other evidence of human occupation of the Azores dating back to that time frame.

Originally posted by Schmidt1989
Now, this doesn't make me believe any of these stories, I'm still an atheist that believes the stories arent true and are merely myths that stemmed from somewhere.

That would make you a Mythasist then

I just don't believe it was Sumer.

I'm not saying that the stories had to originate from Sumer but that they were passed on to the Egyptians from Sumer