New findings in Azores, new evidence of Atlantis?

The information is fresh and has been announced this month on the 15th Symposium on Mediterranean Archaeology held in Sicily, Italy.

Ancient funerary ruins possibly dating over 2000 years old have been noticed in plain sight in the islands of Flores and Corvo. Such structures are much similar to those used in ancient Greece and Rome between the IX and III centuries b.C..

Further archaeological excavations and tests will start being conducted during the coming month and, if conclusive, they may suggest the occupation of the islands much before the first Portuguese have arrived in the XV century.

Accordingly, this may also provide support to the idea that ancient civilization travelled the seas across the Mediterranean and way beyond reaching the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.

One must wonder to what extent this information may be coincidental with the myth surrounding Atlantis. I won't suggest the veracity of the full "tale" or of the several fantastic stories attached to it.

However, strictly looking to the factual basis (if confirmed by the coming research), the existence of funerary structures similar in terms of tradition to those used in the Mediterranean geography by Greeks and Romans somewhere between the IX and III centuries b.C. must be conclusive that these people spread much further than ever considered. Accordingly, also the idea that a civilization emerged / was established in some island(s) bearing significant volcanic and seismic activity may also find echo on those same stories of a lost city that sank into the ocean.

reply to post by Falkner


Thanks for posting. Is there a link to an article for any of what you posted above please, or are they your own comments?

Originally posted by nerbot
reply to post by Falkner

 

Thanks for posting. Is there a link to an article for any of what you posted above please, or are they your own comments?

Hi nerbot,

There are a few links to newspapers articles containing this information. You will have to translate their content from Portuguese using some automatic translator such as google's as I couldn't find yet the information translated into English (I guess because it is still too recent, the release having occurred Friday 5th of March 2011).

Here are the links to some news websites and to the symposium info:

noticias.sapo.pt...=2

www.tvi24.iol.pt...

sol.sapo.pt...

ml.ci.uc.pt...

Here is a translation:

Azores: Corvo Discovered funerary monuments in the Third and that may have more than two thousand years

March 5, 2011, 21:38

Dozens of hypogea (structures dug into the rock used for burials in the Mediterranean) were discovered in Corvo and Terceira, Azores, monuments that may have two thousand years, which may indicate an earlier occupation of the islands to the Portuguese presence.
"The Crow are dozens of structures that are visible, and everything indicates that they are of very ancient monuments, because even lie in areas where there was no agriculture," said President of the Portuguese Archaeological Research (APIA) Nuno Ribeiro, told Lusa.

The hypogea concerned, "not yet studied the archeology," found on Corvo and Terceira, during a tour in August 2010, the archaeologist Nuno Ribeiro, made these islands.

The President of APIA, "are carved into rock structures, which are in sight, whose plant has a uterine betrays its possible use as burial grounds."

The APIA president added that "the Third had arisen several traces" on the monuments in question, but "were never carried out archaeological work."

"This type of monuments has parallels in the Mediterranean world, and the Greek and Carthaginian cultures, and between centuries IX century BC and were used for burials," described the archaeologist, pointing out that the structures "were common in Roman times."

Nuno Ribeiro admitted that the monuments in question "may have more than two thousand years," but stressed that the dating of structures "must be investigated and substantiated" through archaeological work that has APIA hold "this year, with the support of local and regional government. "

"We will present a project by the end of March to determine seniority for the purpose of carrying out scientific investigations, including excavations and studies in depth," said Nuno Ribeiro, adding that there are indications that point to "the existence of the island also hypogea Flower. "

The archaeologist has stressed the importance of monuments, noting that the show is the age of structures is possible that the occupation of the islands has been prior to the Portuguese presence. "

"The structures indicate that they may have built those monuments to bury someone, or anyone for more than two thousand years has been in the islands," he admitted.

The findings in the Azores archipelago were presented on Friday at the XV Congress SUM 2011, Archaeology of the Mediterranean which was held at the University of Catania - Sicily, Italy, a conference presented by archaeologists from the APIA.

Source

I think They'd have to be somewhat older than 2000yrs to be a contender for Atlantis, Solon first heard the story in Egypt and he was born c. 638 BC so Atlantis would have to be at least 3000yrs ago, the accounts (if I remember correctly) put it at c9000 BC.

reply to post by Versa

I agree with your premise of Atlantean timeline, however one has to realize that modern academia is always hesitant if not downright opposed to propose anything being older then our current historical model. What is interesting is that there is proof of ancient culture in the eastern Atlantic. Now we need to keep an open mind and begin excavating the site and perhaps outlaying coastal areas to see what else comes to fruition. You still hear nothing of the great antiquity of Dawarka, Mojenjendaro (sp) and even Puma Punko in mainstream academia. People are too set in their paradigm and too afraid of the possibilities present in accepting that our MS methods of dating are often at odds with good common sense, science outside of our present box and literature of indigenous peoples of the concerned area.

I find it strange that no one has really looked at the Azores before for Atlantis because they are the 'middle'territory between Europe and America. Edmund Marriage gave a talk where he mentioned that when doing a survey for a road it was found that an ancient river had run through the area and had been 3 miles wide, so the land mass at some time was considerably larger than we see today.

I am sorry but I cannot remember where I read this but I understand that there is literally a T junction of moving plates which runs through the Azores and these when moving would account for the instability of the land. There is a cable running over this part of the ocean floor and the land had either risen or dropped by 2 miles when the cable was inspected.

For me, its only recently that I have become aware of how much incredible change the earth can make through earthquakes, ice ages etc and I would be very surprised if we stood much of a chance of seeing anything left of Atlantis due to the T junction of the plates and the length of time since it fell. However it's existence could well have been the reason why people were able to cross successfully from Europe to America because they could stop half-way.
Who knows?

Originally posted by Shadowfoot
reply to post by Versa

 

I agree with your premise of Atlantean timeline, however one has to realize that modern academia is always hesitant if not downright opposed to propose anything being older then our current historical model. What is interesting is that there is proof of ancient culture in the eastern Atlantic.

There was already much older proof of ancient culture traveling the eastern Atlantic.

The Phoenicians had tin mines in Britain a thousand years before the era you're talking about.

EDIT: Do you think it odd that " modern academia' didn't hesitate to reveal this fact about Phoenicia?

Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the "current historical model" prior to disparaging it.

Harte

reply to post by Harte

Oh please don't go looking for a fight. I am very aware of Phoenicia, however what I am speaking to and you love to omit is the fact that in many sites worldwide there is an imposed timeline applied..and yes out of fear of upsetting the applecart. I do however admit it is possible that the Phoenicians might well have had, or perhaps even the Romans as they also mined said tin, an outpost in the Azores. There is always a chance to the contrary that an ancient society, predating the classical Mediterranean might also of existed in the area.

What do you in all of your self absorbed brilliance know of anyone's background? Perhaps I did not fully espouse my meaning in the best possible light...my supposition was that one should not jump to conclusions in these things including our systems of dating and our immediate acceptance of the established timeline.

The Azores is an exciting place for that to be found because it is normally assumed that there was no or hardly any transatlantic contact and travel prior to Columbus and Vikings.

Socrates* said Atlantis was around 9000-10000 years ago. Not 2000. In fact, if 2000 is an accurate age, then the ruins are even younger than socrates.

Socrates has an asterisk next to his name because even though he said it, we never have any record of him or his texts. Anything he said has been reiterated by Plato (and maybe others?)

Atlantis was apparently destroyed. There is no record by any other civilization that says this happened. There are no records of Atlantis at all. It's pure fiction, and was most likely Socrates' imagination of what he thought the perfect world looked like.

Notice that in non of the Atlantis stories anything is ever mentioned of cars or computers or advanced technology.

Atlantis never existed. Therefore we will never find evidence for it.

I often find it funny (and bizarre) when people say things like "The higher ups don't want our historical record to change" or whatever. Bullcrap. Read a book and learn something about the world.

Originally posted by Schmidt1989
Atlantis was apparently destroyed. There is no record by any other civilization that says this happened. There are no records of Atlantis at all. It's pure fiction, and was most likely Socrates' imagination of what he thought the perfect world looked like.

Is it not possible that the story is actually another version of the flood stories recounted by the Sumerian's and in Genesis?

Originally posted by Schmidt1989
Socrates* said Atlantis was around 9000-10000 years ago. Not 2000. In fact, if 2000 is an accurate age, then the ruins are even younger than socrates.

Socrates has an asterisk next to his name because even though he said it, we never have any record of him or his texts. Anything he said has been reiterated by Plato (and maybe others?)

Atlantis was apparently destroyed. There is no record by any other civilization that says this happened. There are no records of Atlantis at all. It's pure fiction, and was most likely Socrates' imagination of what he thought the perfect world looked like.

Notice that in non of the Atlantis stories anything is ever mentioned of cars or computers or advanced technology.

Atlantis never existed. Therefore we will never find evidence for it.

I often find it funny (and bizarre) when people say things like "The higher ups don't want our historical record to change" or whatever. Bullcrap. Read a book and learn something about the world.

Originally posted by Schmidt1989
Socrates* said Atlantis was around 9000-10000 years ago. Not 2000. In fact, if 2000 is an accurate age, then the ruins are even younger than socrates.

Socrates has an asterisk next to his name because even though he said it, we never have any record of him or his texts. Anything he said has been reiterated by Plato (and maybe others?)

Atlantis was apparently destroyed. There is no record by any other civilization that says this happened. There are no records of Atlantis at all. It's pure fiction, and was most likely Socrates' imagination of what he thought the perfect world looked like.

Notice that in non of the Atlantis stories anything is ever mentioned of cars or computers or advanced technology.

Atlantis never existed. Therefore we will never find evidence for it.

Actually perhaps we should be very grateful there were no cars then because they would have used up the petrol we all seem to find so vital today.

I look at what the ancients built and the knowledge they obviously had and I am in absolute awe of them. The Jupiter Temple in Lebanon has slabs weighting 80+ tons which were lifted off the ground, so somewhere in the ancient past they had damn good cranes, terrific mathmatics, an incredible knowledge of the stars and a balance of art and science that we seem to have to a lesser degree now. I am not unhappy thinking that perhaps these skills were conceived in an Atlantean civilisation, because skills like those were not developed overnight .

I often find it funny (and bizarre) when people say things like "The higher ups don't want our historical record to change" or whatever. Bullcrap. Read a book and learn something about the world.

reply to post by Lynda101


Wrong. WE don't have a lesser understanding of mathematics and how to move large objects. YOU do. Just because you don't understand something doesn't make it true.

Originally posted by Versa

Originally posted by Schmidt1989
Atlantis was apparently destroyed. There is no record by any other civilization that says this happened. There are no records of Atlantis at all. It's pure fiction, and was most likely Socrates' imagination of what he thought the perfect world looked like.

Is it not possible that the story is actually another version of the flood stories recounted by the Sumerian's and in Genesis?

No, the similarities aren't that great. The Sumerians were off the world scene by then (replaced by the Assyrians, who weren't much admired) and the Hebrews had not yet put the Torah together into the "old Testament" at the time of Socrates. Socrates' tale is very explicit about dimensions and structure. Folks often try to explain changes to an area to justify it being Atlantis (and conveniently ignoring Socrates' statement that it is still a vast swampy mudflat somewhere in the ocean.)

You can tell when myths are derived from another one because of some strong points of similarity (in this case, warning from heaven, a religiously-relevant number of days involved, survival of the only good family (everyone else is horrible and wicked), bringing pairs of animals aboard a large boat, earth submerged for a religiously significant timeframe).

I think there's a typo or two in the article

Originally posted by Falkner
The information is fresh and has been announced this month on the 15th Symposium on Mediterranean Archaeology held in Sicily, Italy.

Ancient funerary ruins possibly dating over 2000 years old have been noticed in plain sight in the islands of Flores and Corvo. Such structures are much similar to those used in ancient Greece and Rome between the IX and III centuries b.C..

I believe they meant 4th and 3rd centuries, not 9th and 3rd. Greece and Rome weren't around then as a well-defined civilization.

Further archaeological excavations and tests will start being conducted during the coming month and, if conclusive, they may suggest the occupation of the islands much before the first Portuguese have arrived in the XV century.

That'd be interesting ... and not impossible, of course. The island is in a geologically active area (several volcanos) and may well have been settled more than once during its history. I see that Corvo is a volcano plus caldera and so there wouldn't be a lot of water there (beyond rainfall.)

There's a Wikipedia reference to Phoenician coins which have long been thought to be a hoax, but... it would be very interesting if Greek sailors had been there.

A third century settlement, though, would not have been fuel for Socrates' story, since he lived almost 150 years before the third century. A fourth century tale from that area would have been interesting, but it would have found its way into poetry and plays (as with the eruption of Vesuvius that buried Pompeii) and other references.

Originally posted by Versa

Originally posted by Schmidt1989
Atlantis was apparently destroyed. There is no record by any other civilization that says this happened. There are no records of Atlantis at all. It's pure fiction, and was most likely Socrates' imagination of what he thought the perfect world looked like.

Is it not possible that the story is actually another version of the flood stories recounted by the Sumerian's and in Genesis?

Apparently, there are records / consuetudinary traditions in American continent referring to the existence of an island.

So, it does not seem something exclusive of European writters.

www.sacred-texts.com...

Thanks you OP for this is indeed great news!

I have been banging on for at least 15 years that the Azores are the remenants of mountain tops that were once part of Atlantis. They are exactly were Plato said Atlantis was!

Furthermore, I strongly believe Atlantis went down between 1980-1998BCE - NOT 10,000 years ago as the New Age Cute and Fuzzy Bunny Gang claim!!

So this latest find with an estimated 2000 year old artifact further strengthens my claims!

Again, thank you!!

Originally posted by Byrd
I think there's a typo or two in the article

Originally posted by Falkner
The information is fresh and has been announced this month on the 15th Symposium on Mediterranean Archaeology held in Sicily, Italy.

Ancient funerary ruins possibly dating over 2000 years old have been noticed in plain sight in the islands of Flores and Corvo. Such structures are much similar to those used in ancient Greece and Rome between the IX and III centuries b.C..

I believe they meant 4th and 3rd centuries, not 9th and 3rd. Greece and Rome weren't around then as a well-defined civilization.

Further archaeological excavations and tests will start being conducted during the coming month and, if conclusive, they may suggest the occupation of the islands much before the first Portuguese have arrived in the XV century.

That'd be interesting ... and not impossible, of course. The island is in a geologically active area (several volcanos) and may well have been settled more than once during its history. I see that Corvo is a volcano plus caldera and so there wouldn't be a lot of water there (beyond rainfall.)

There's a Wikipedia reference to Phoenician coins which have long been thought to be a hoax, but... it would be very interesting if Greek sailors had been there.

A third century settlement, though, would not have been fuel for Socrates' story, since he lived almost 150 years before the third century. A fourth century tale from that area would have been interesting, but it would have found its way into poetry and plays (as with the eruption of Vesuvius that buried Pompeii) and other references.

I believe 9th through 3rd centuries bC have indeed been intended in the article and I don't think the references to ancient Greece and ancient Rome should be taken in the sense of structured imperial civilization, but rather has a geographical reference to other locations in European mainland evidencing similar funerary traditions around the same period.

As for the influence in Plato's writing’s and Socrates stories, I don't think they are connected at all with the 2000 year old ruins, but rather that these ruins are an evidence that the middle Atlantic Ocean was inhabited far before the first travelling from Europe to America have officially been reported and accounted for, which means they had to get there somewhere before this 2000 year reference date of the funerary findings.

If this is the case, it is probable that at least some Mediterranean cultures might have kept some sort of memory from a time when they have had the ability to travel across the Atlantic sea. If it was considered remarkable in the 15th century a.C., it would have been a far greater achievement in the centuries preceding 2000 b.C..

In regard to the effective existence of Atlantis, of course one cannot argue either in favor or against its existence at some point in History. That would be a conclusion to the discussion. So far one can only argue that another finding was made - that previously thought uninhabited islands bear records of much ancient population living in the territory.