(Confirmed!) We're hearing that police have joined the rally in WI after being asked to disperse th

Are the Left Hegelians here still pretending not to be? And all whining about being off topic or whatever.

reply to post by g146541


They can learn, can't they. They're teachers for crying out loud.

Originally posted by romanmel
Average salary of a WI teacher is $ 49,000.00 per year with 15 weeks vacation. Give me a break! See: certificationmap.com...
And they are bitchin? I find it difficult to be for teachers who can't train a chld to read beyond a forth grade level or identify their own state on an unlabled map after twelve years of schooling. In my opinion we would be way ahead firing them all.

Well, It's even more than just not being able to read(and comprehend evidently), it's all the values clarification and outcome based education programs designed expressly to put a wedge between children and their parents in a diabolical attempt by the State to destroy traditional values. Yes it's all in their programs disguised as multi culturalism, etc. Authors Mel and Norma Gabler wrote, "Are Textbooks Harming Your Children", which focuses on content in books attacking traditional American values. They were involved in the Texas Textbook committee, which is still the major textbook approval apparatus.
Says the Mises Inst., " gather a hundred Americans into a big room and you'll find that twenty of them live in either California or Texas. Both states set statewide standards for every course offered in their public school systems, then provide copies of these standards to textbook publishers. Who can really blame the publishers if they react by, first, producing textbooks that meet the standards in Texas and California and, then, providing those same textbooks to everybody else in the country, too, whether they like it or not?"
A quote from Diane Ravitch on that site says, "[t]extbooks are very important in American schools, especially in history. In most history classes, they are the curriculum. Many teachers are dependent on their textbook because they have not studied history. Today, most teachers of history in grades 7–12 have neither a major nor a minor in history. Instead they have a degree in social studies education, some other branch of pedagogy, a social science, or a completely unrelated field.[3" mises.org...
There is more in this article about reform of history if anyone wants to know.
Revisionist history is made use of liberally by people who want to control the outcome of a generation of impressionable youth. Here's an article about revisionist history: www.upi.com...

Finally, here is one of my favorite authors, Antony Sutton, "How The Order Controls Education" with a great introduction to that book, www.sntp.net...

reply to post by XxXAmmoXxX


You are correct, but i don't want a Plumber doing surgery on me, or vise versa.
Either way, this whole issue will find it's way to closure for the bad or good, with or without our commentary.
Just hope it goes peacefully.

A unionized public employee, a member of the Tea Party and a CEO are sitting at a table. In the middle of the table there is a plate with a dozen cookies on it. The CEO reaches across and takes 11 cookies, looks at the tea partier and says,"look out for that union guy, he wants a piece of your cookie".

Hate to say it but i see a lot of teachers, police and any other public worker that joins this protest losing their jobs before to much longer and there's not a damn thing the union can do about it.

how many remember when the air traffic controllers went on strike? remember how Reagan broke the strike?

For those that aren't old enough to remember or weren't born yet. back in the 80's all the air traffic controllers went on strike. and Reagan fired their asses when they refused to go back to work. I'm sure it won't be long and the gov of Wisconsin will order the union workers back to work and if they refuse he'll fire them! the Unions can cry all they want but there is nothing they can do about it.

Originally posted by Jadette
A unionized public employee, a member of the Tea Party and a CEO are sitting at a table. In the middle of the table there is a plate with a dozen cookies on it. The CEO reaches across and takes 11 cookies, looks at the tea partier and says,"look out for that union guy, he wants a piece of your cookie".

thats funny but I fixed it for you.

A unionized public employee, a member of the Tea Party and a CEO are sitting at a table. In the middle of the table there is a plate with a dozen cookies on it. The unionized public employee reaches across and takes 11 cookies, looks at the CEO and says,"look out for that Tea Party guy, he wants a piece of your cookie"

reply to post by Mercenary2007


I doubt that he will fire anyone being as he is about to be impeached for corruption and selling out to the Koch bros.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

If anything the union membership will swell and actually gain more power when the taxpayers see how Walker sold them out; that is precisely why the firefighters and LEOs are joining the protesters.

Conservatives are such hypocrites always wanting smaller government but giving unlimited power to a Governor against the American working man. pathetic!

reply to post by Mercenary2007

A unionized public employee, a member of the Tea Party and a CEO are sitting at a table. In the middle of the table there is a plate with a dozen cookies on it. The unionized public employee reaches across and takes 11 cookies, looks at the CEO and says,"look out for that Tea Party guy, he wants a piece of your cookie"

Let me further correct the omissions:

A unionized public employee, a member of the Tea Party and a CEO are sitting at a table. In the middle of the table there is a plate with a dozen cookies on it. The unionized public employee reaches across and takes 11 cookies, looks at the CEO and says,"look out for that Tea Party guy, he wants a piece of your cookie. Now, somebody get a baseball bat and break both dese guys legs, and den go burn down their houses, and go get some of our boys and torch the goddamn factories. Den, we get our attorneys on the case and sue for breach of contract, and to make sure we get our paychecks uninterrupted while they're rebuilding our factory."

reply to post by MMPI2


More like the politician and his corporate backers take 11 3/4 of the cookies and leaves the union and regular worker to fight over the 1/4 cookie left...

reply to post by Mercenary2007


To apply that joke to the real world...what Union gets a piece of the cookie before the CEO? It doesn't happen.

Everyone against Unions are just being led astray, can't blame you because corporations and Right talking heads pay millions for the propaganda.

A Union at it's genesis is a gathering of individuals with a common cause.

People crying about tyranny and oppression need to take a step back and realize what side you're actually on. The first things dictators such as Hitler did was break up Unions. This fact alone should cause your ears to perk and you take a long hard think.

Why do you think a dictator would want to break up unions? Because it's easier to oppress or even murder people when they aren't unified (Union). So you folk who are against Unions are actually the scourge against humanity...or working for them.

Unions have made life better for all of us. Instead of envying the carpenter making $35 per hour while you make $28....realize that if your company wasn't competing with the Unions and at least trying to hire the stragglers who couldn't make it to a Union....your pay would be $10 per hour. So you're stepping on your own dilly dally by trying to eliminate Unions!

I see a lot of fools in this thread. The rich are getting richer and keeping the focus off themselves by forcing the middle class to fight other middle class or poor.

reply to post by DZAG Wright

People crying about tyranny and oppression need to take a step back and realize what side you're actually on. The first things dictators such as Hitler did was break up Unions. This fact alone should cause your ears to perk and you take a long hard think.

but it doesnt it seem pretty obvious that the NAZI party was one gigantic union.

reply to post by g146541


Well that comparison is really disproportionate. Teachers are supposed to have a higher mental capacity than their union reps so they could probably even do a better job than what they are currently paying for. By the way, in case it was unclear I did not mean my suggestion in a totally literal sense. I just wish that people could learn to think outside of the box a bit more. If the current system isn't working then why not change it instead of completely eradicating it?

reply to post by ugie1028


Hey all;
I don't know if this video has been posted to this link or not, sorry in advance if it has. But here is a vid of a Wisconsin cop megaphoning, telling the people they swore to uphold human rights, and they intend on doing it.

redantliberationarmy.wordpress.com...

Now one question we have to ask, if it's not going too deep down the rabbit hole, we these police ordered to go and stay throughout the protests...but to tell the public they'd been ordered to kick them out? You know, to make it look like the cops were on their side, or even just as simple as to try and infiltrate and get information out of the protestors. I'm not suggesting I believe this is what has been done, in regards to any truth outside of myself I don't know anything, but it is one avenue to peruse.

Peace and One Love!

reply to post by DZAG Wright


not quite sure how to take your reply to me. But I've actually been trying to avoid this whole stupid thing. Both the Union and the governor are wrong.

I don't like unions not because some talking head on tv tells me i should. I don't like unions from years of personal experience. Yes Unions had there time and place and back then they actually helped their members. But these days there is no need for unions anymore. There are laws on the books to protect workers.

Tell me exactly what a union does these days to protect workers? Because from here all I see is a bunch of lazy leeches trying to suck companies dry.

You want a raise here's a novel idea get off your ass and do a better job than the person next to you and you'll get that raise. want better benefits? work harder and contribute to your own retirement fund. and buy better health insurance. People these days want everything handed to them, they feel they are entitled to everything, Yet they don't want to make personal sacrifices to do anything to improve their situation on their own.

I hate to break it to these teachers police and fire fighters that are protesting because a state wants to take away their union.They should consider themselves damn lucky to have a job right now. because there are millions of people that would gladly take their job if they could.

So what the Gov. wants them to pay more of a share for their benefits they pay what 30% if that. most people have to 50-100% of their share for their benefits in the real world!

Frankly the majority of us are getting tired of the unions crying that everyone is picking on them and that their wages and benefits are justified. really? 80,000- 100,00 a year for a teacher in a failing school system give me a break! you should be lucky to get 30,000 a year.

back in the old days public servants were the lowest paid employees for a reason. so states could live within their means. once again unions got their greedy little hands in the cookie jar and took and took and took now look what happened the state is bankrupt and they are crying about paying their fair share.

reply to post by whaaa


sorry he can't be impeached for a bill that 1 half of the state legislator has passed so far and when the state senate votes and passes it, it will become law.

You can only impeach an elected official for breaking an actual law. not because you just don't like the person.

oh and about union membership swelling, i doubt it. union membership has been on the decline for the last several decades

Originally posted by Mercenary2007
reply to post by DZAG Wright

 

not quite sure how to take your reply to me. But I've actually been trying to avoid this whole stupid thing. Both the Union and the governor are wrong.

I don't like unions not because some talking head on tv tells me i should. I don't like unions from years of personal experience. Yes Unions had there time and place and back then they actually helped their members. But these days there is no need for unions anymore. There are laws on the books to protect workers.

Tell me exactly what a union does these days to protect workers? Because from here all I see is a bunch of lazy leeches trying to suck companies dry.

You want a raise here's a novel idea get off your ass and do a better job than the person next to you and you'll get that raise. want better benefits? work harder and contribute to your own retirement fund. and buy better health insurance. People these days want everything handed to them, they feel they are entitled to everything, Yet they don't want to make personal sacrifices to do anything to improve their situation on their own.

I hate to break it to these teachers police and fire fighters that are protesting because a state wants to take away their union.They should consider themselves damn lucky to have a job right now. because there are millions of people that would gladly take their job if they could.

So what the Gov. wants them to pay more of a share for their benefits they pay what 30% if that. most people have to 50-100% of their share for their benefits in the real world!

Frankly the majority of us are getting tired of the unions crying that everyone is picking on them and that their wages and benefits are justified. really? 80,000- 100,00 a year for a teacher in a failing school system give me a break! you should be lucky to get 30,000 a year.

back in the old days public servants were the lowest paid employees for a reason. so states could live within their means. once again unions got their greedy little hands in the cookie jar and took and took and took now look what happened the state is bankrupt and they are crying about paying their fair share.

Yes Unions are bigger and more powerful in some aspects than they should be. Getting rid of them isn't the answer however, simply modify them.

Relying on laws on the books in the place of Unions would have us all screwed. Corporations would merely have to throw more money at legislatures to have any laws removed without Unions there throwing money. Us common folk wouldn't stand a chance in the politics.

"Suck a company dry"? I don't see ONE union that threatens to take more than half of a companies revenue.

This statement [You want a raise here's a novel idea get off your ass and do a better job than the person next to you and you'll get that raise. want better benefits? work harder and contribute to your own retirement fund. and buy better health insurance. People these days want everything handed to them, they feel they are entitled to everything, Yet they don't want to make personal sacrifices to do anything to improve their situation on their own.] shows me you have brought the propaganda of rugged American, pull yourself up by your bootstraps. That's b.s. that's fed to unimformed, selling them a false dream. You can be the hardest worker in the world and die poor. Rare is the person that makes it wealthy in the grand scheme.

The part about considering themselves lucky to have a job is defeatist attitude. It's akin to being grateful for the crumbs and table scraps. This is what the wealthy and Right have been forcing people to accept. What type of a free person would be satisfied with having a wealthy person piss/trickle down an existence? #ck that!

Originally posted by burdman30ott6
It's called "Democracy" when the Democrats flee the state to prevent the duly elected representatives of the people of Wisconsin from doing the job they were sent to do, including protecting the future of Wisconsin by not allowing the state to go so far into debt their credit rating drops to slightly above Greece.

It certainly is. And it's perfectly legal, unlike hte 10-second vote the WI Republicans held the other day. Especially when you consider those 14 Democrats are taking it on hte chin in the interests of the people they represent. Seriously, Democracy is not "majority rules" - that's thuggery, which is why the Republicans love it so.

It's called "Democracy" when the same democrats are heavily compensated and donated to by union leaders who, in turn, make their fortunes off the backs of the same workers they supposedly care about and want better lives for via mandatory union dues.

Yup. Because unlike the bosses who also make their livings off the workers' backs, the union reps will go to fight for the workers they represent - and they can be thrown out on their butts if they don't do so. We could argue that lobbying isn't terribly democratic, but we can both agree that both sides have a more or less even split between lobbying interests.

It's called "Democracy" when the actual act of democracy (taking a vote among the elected representatives) is blocked.

Yup. There's all sorts of measures that can be taken to prevent or stall a vote. See, there's more to the system than just casting votes; the elected representatives are supposed to represent the people who elected them. Ergo why the Republican lawmakers are making illegal efforts to rape the workign class, while Democratic lawmakers are trying to keep that from happening.

It's called "facism" when steps are taken to actually take a legal vote among the representatives.

Actually there was nothing legal about the vote that was held. And since the entire point of the vote is to strip rights from citizens, with outright threads of violence from the governor himself, hell yes it's Fascism.

It's called "facism" when they attempt to stop the out of control spending.

No, it's not; that's just propaganda. There are literally thousands of other places that spending could be cut; in fact the Unions have bent over backwards to help with htat, invcluding taking pay freezes and benefit cuts. The Republicans are trying to strip the right to collective bargaining, which carries no expense to the state. They are doing this as an attempt to break union power, strip citizen rights, and turn Wisconsin into Detroit.

It's called "facism" when the representatives attempt to assist the tax payer back into a standing position, back them away from the barrel the unions bent him over, and get his pants back up around his waist and properly buckled.

When doing so portrays the taxpayer himself as the enemy that must be stopped, with violence no less - as is absolutely the case - then yes.

Yeah, clearly that game works both ways...

Only if you're completely ignorant.

I find it that hte people who are loudest about "small government" are also the ones cheering the loudest when government tries to curtail the rights of citizens.

reply to post by Scorpitarius


I'm hardly pro-cop, and I'm all too familiar with hte usual police tactics of cracking a protest.

However, this is not the case in Wisconsin. Why?

Because the Governor's efforts to strip citizens' right ot collectively bargain applies to the police as well. That's right, cops are unionized, and they are paid with state dollars; Walker is trying to strip their rights as well. Along with firefighters, garbage collectors, pretty much anyone who works in any sort of government position.

The police are with the workers on this one, because the police are the workers, in this case.