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Abortion, Genocide, what’s THE difference?!?!?!?!?.... do you condone murder???

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posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 07:16 PM
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I see the ad hominem attacks have begun. This thread is doomed to a future of pointless drivel. Stop fighting children, or i'll spank you all.




posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 07:17 PM
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Originally posted by kevinunknown
reply to post by ALadInsane
 


It is mass killing of the unborn child, I would call it genocide, its sanctioned by the state.

And I have already addressed the issues of rape. I mean you say it like every abortion is as the result of rape that is not true. I do not recognise that as a valid argument as to why abortion should be legal for all up to 24 weeks.


You would call it genocide because that is provocative even if it doesn't describe what it actually is. In this case, it's the killing of a fetus, AKA an aborted pregnancy. It's a legal procedure in the majority of the developed world, but illegal in most of the undeveloped countries. There are rules for it's use everywhere and it's been hashed out for CENTURIES.

I don't condone murder, but I do condone abortion if that is the woman's decision. It's her body and until you walk a mile in the shoes of someone, you won't have any idea what they're going through or what they have gone through to that point. Giving something a provocative name is a way for people with a weak argument to feel like they've made their point. It's neither murder NOR genocide when someone gets an abortion.

I don't think that it should be used as an impromptu "oops, I forgot my pill" birth control, but again, it's that woman's right to end that pregnancy up until the fetus becomes self-aware around the 20th week of pregnancy.

Now, if I was a woman, I probably would NOT have an abortion in most cases because I believe in personal responsibility, however, I don't have a right to tell a woman what she can do with her body any more than they have a right to tell me how to live.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 07:18 PM
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reply to post by sweetstuff
 



I have an aunt that believed abortion was murder, and refused to do so when mandated by her doctors to do so, because it could kill her. She's now dead due to that pregnancy. So you can cheer her 'rightness' all the way to heaven if you want. Tough titties I suppose for the three young children she already had who were left without a mother to raise them. She made the "right" choice after all, she went to heaven I'm sure as a non-murderer. Excuse me while I go puke.



OH...I see...you don't support her CHOICE...huh???

Funny how that works....pro-choicers not supporting CHOICE.


Take your fem-nazism somewhere else please.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 07:20 PM
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Originally posted by curious7
I don't believe in the anti-abortion views whatsoever, nor do I believe the pro-abortion either.

I'm all for pro-choice and if a woman chooses to have an abortion, that's her god-given right as a member of a free society.



Murdering babies isn't a right that I would think exist in a free society.

It's her right in a selfish and self-centered society...it has nothing to do with freedom.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 07:20 PM
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I'm pro-choice. That's all there is to say. Most pro-life are unintelligent bible beating morons who have no understanding of the true nature of the universe. If a soul chooses a life plan that includes being killed early in the womb, it's likely that that soul is paying a karmaic debt of some kind.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 07:21 PM
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reply to post by MindSpin
 


I would like to debate with you, myself. I need some information from you though:

1) Do you believe abortion during the first trimester is okay?

2) Do you believe contraception is a right?



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 07:23 PM
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Originally posted by kevinunknown
I should start by saying I am very much anti-abortion


Simple question for you. I apologize if it has been asked before... I am only just now starting to read the thread...

But my question. What if the woman was raped and gets pregnant? Or what if having the baby will kill the woman? Are you still very much against it?



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 07:24 PM
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I didnt even read your OP, but my perspective is:

If a women is pregnant, and she cant afford or is incapable of raising the child in a good environment, then why bring that child into the world only for them to be mistreated and unhappy?

If a young teenage girl becomes pregnant, it is likely that having that child will ruin both their lives.

So yeah, i guess i "condone murder." But really your not ending the life of a conscious being. Your sparing that child from an ugly upbringing, sparing the taxpayers burden, and giving a potential mother a chance to develop to the point where hes capable of having a child.

Sure, your "ending a life". But what kind of life is being an embryo in a womb? that is not a life. Lives need to be lived and experienced... something that zygotes are not capable of.

This isnt the dark ages anymore. Having litters of kids is not feasible in todays world unless you are well prepared for them. It would be tragic if every potential mother was forced to have their baby regardless of the circumstances.

Touchy subject, but ultimately one that pro-life people will not be winning. At least not in this generation.
edit on 23-2-2011 by SPACEYstranger because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 07:25 PM
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Late term abortion: 24 weeks is way too late...

Abortion in general: I don't believe in abortion for birth control but as many others have pointed out there are a ton of other viable reasons for having one. I'm not Anti-abortion but I'm not Pro-life either. It is down to the mother and father (if he's actually stuck around) to make that decision. Whether we agree with it or not is irrelevant.

All of you vehemently spouting off 'baby killers' and demanding it become illegal are talking about taking away a persons rights. Just like if I started calling all deer hunters murderers and demanding deer hunting be illegal. I would be taking away their rights.

Are any of you pro-lifers vegetarians? I mean, killing is killing is it not? Whether its a non-formed potential person or a happily clucking chicken.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 07:29 PM
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Originally posted by Phantom28804
Originally posted by HarmonicNights

Wow I am beginning to see your personality now after that post. I guess the male had nothing to do with it at all. It's totally the woman's fault.


Why did you choose to ignore my statement of "only TWO people are responsible for a pregnancy"? Easy. Because you want to continue portraying women as victims and anti-abortionists as woman-haters.


Do you believe a woman should stay home wash dishes, care for the children, and have dinner ready when you get there too?


I AM a female. And actually, I do prefer the work specialization lifestyle. Stop undermining how hard husbands work to support their families. Could you be any more ungreatful? You seriously think it's easier to work a 9 to 5 than to take on domestic duties and actually cook a healthy dinner for your family rather than pick up fastfood?
edit on 23-2-2011 by HarmonicNights because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 07:31 PM
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Originally posted by ScorpioRising
Abortion in general: I don't believe in abortion for birth control but as many others have pointed out there are a ton of other viable reasons for having one. I'm not Anti-abortion but I'm not Pro-life either. It is down to the mother and father (if he's actually stuck around) to make that decision. Whether we agree with it or not is irrelevant.


It's down to the Mother, not the Mother and the Father... the Father just has to live with the results of her choice ("lump of tissue" in the trash or a child requiring support whether he wanted a child or not).


Originally posted by ScorpioRising
All of you vehemently spouting off 'baby killers' and demanding it become illegal are talking about taking away a persons rights. Just like if I started calling all deer hunters murderers and demanding deer hunting be illegal. I would be taking away their rights.


There are far more restrictions placed on hunting deer than there are on killing an unborn human... kill a deer without a licence, at the wrong time, in the wrong place etc. etc. etc. you can go to jail, no such worries if all you want to do is kill an unborn human.
edit on 23-2-2011 by SevenBeans because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 07:31 PM
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reply to post by ScorpioRising
 


I don't eat meat or approve of hunting etc.

Can I ask those of you who are pro-choice, why is a late abortion unacceptable to some of you. If the womans right to choose then why can't she choose a late abortion. This is a serious question,



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 07:33 PM
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reply to post by windword
 



Throughout this thread you have called me trash, told me I am disgusting and called me a murderer numerous times. Your lame attempt at having the last word, by accusing me of murder again, using your twisted words and logic, to force me to feel a guilt you project on me, is adolescent.


If you choose to put your personal life details out in the open, then don't cry about it when people judge you.

I am disgusted by you, I do think you are a murderer, and I do think it was a selfish and trashy thing to do. This is my opinion of you, I feel strongly about it.

I am twisting nothing...you are the one that needs to play with the semantics and strictly define what is and what is not a human life to deal with your own guilt. Like I said...my conscience is clear no matter which way you define it. YOU depend on those definitions and semantics...not me.


The vitriol of your reaction to me reveals your deep insecurity and your inability to accept the physical and legal reality of which you have no control, and no positive outlet. Sour Grapes! Vagina Envy!


My reaction should reveal one thing to you...I think any women who kills their own child is sub-human and shouldn't be allowed to raise other children.

Vagina Envy...please...don't flatter yourself.

You are right about one thing, I am not happy that I have no control from stopping selfish women from killing thier own children...yes...sour grapes indeed. Vile creatures who kill their own children should be stopped.


You think you are righteous in your battle to highjack someones thread with your troll behavior, to sputter hatred, ignorance and bigotry of something, that up till this point, you have shown no personal experience with, just blind judgement. Science and logic and medicine have no place in your mind.


Yes...lash out at me...project your own guilt onto me if that makes you feel better. If I was simply a troll that made no valid points...I would not have caused such a reaction from you.

But you know some things I say ring true...you know in the back of your mind you feel the guilt I speak of and you know that you can only fight it by twisting definitions and using semantics in an attempt to justify your actions.

Do I think I am righteous??? Not in general...but more so than anyone who would kill their own child...yes I do.


Others, have disagreed with each other on this thread but none have been so bitter, so vile as you. Most have thoughtful, honest reason's why they have come to their opinions.


I disagree...anyone who supports the murder of innocent babies are much more vile than I am.


Very few people like me get heard, these days. Blowhards and bullies like you abound. You are a coward, hiding behind you newly created account and forboding avatar. You have given us no good thing, no good advice or annidotal example.


I'm sorry that I just don't sit by quietly as people promote killing babies as an acceptable solution to lifes hardships. I don't see what my join date has to do with anything accept your attempt at trying to reduce my credibility
And last time I checked...we are all hiding behind avatars and screen names...you included.


As far as not giving advice...Here is some good advice...don't kill babies.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 07:35 PM
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reply to post by HarmonicNights
 



Originally posted by HarmonicNights

Originally posted by My_Reality
reply to post by kevinunknown
 


An embryo or a fetus is not a child. While in the womb, it is evolving into a child and is completely dependent on the biological processes of the mother for survival.


Babies and young children are dependent on others for survival. So are some of the disabled. Does that make them "not human"? By your logic, it was perfectly fine for Casey Anthony to murder her young child.


At it's essence, forcing unwilling women to adhere to the anti-abortionist mentality is no different than radical Islam forcing Sharia onto an unwilling population.


No one can "force" another adult to change their mentality. If a woman feels guilty over an abortion, it's certainly not because of anti-abortionists. Infanticide is similar to the treatment of slaves and Jews in the past. Laws are passed to dehumanize them in order to justify their murder. Children are no longer valued in our society, which is a shame seeing as they are the FUTURE.


This is the true cruelty. Forcing beliefs onto others is as morally decadent to me as abortion is morally decadent to you.


Passing laws that dehumanize the unborn is certainly "forcing" a set of beliefs on the entire population. Sorry that some people don't wish to sit back with a smile on their face while infanticide is taking place. 46 million innocent lives have been lost since the 70's.




edit on 23-2-2011 by HarmonicNights because: (no reason given)





Babies and young children are dependent on others for survival. So are some of the disabled. Does that make them "not human"? By your logic, it was perfectly fine for Casey Anthony to murder her young child.


You misunderstand me. I clearly stated that the embryo or fetus is dependent on the BIOLOGICAL PROCESSES of the mother for survival. I never mentioned anything regarding born babies. Obviously, the very young and disabled are dependent on others. However, it is not biological dependence.


No one can "force" another adult to change their mentality. If a woman feels guilty over an abortion, it's certainly not because of anti-abortionists. Infanticide is similar to the treatment of slaves and Jews in the past. Laws are passed to dehumanize them in order to justify their murder. Children are no longer valued in our society, which is a shame seeing as they are the FUTURE.


Infanticide would be killing a live baby. As I stated, I do not believe that embryo or fetus are alive. With that said, how can one dehumanize an embryo or fetus? We will have to agree to disagree here. Regarding your statement about children being the future of our society: I am tired of that cliche; It is the young adults who are the future of our society, as they have the means to enact change in society now, while still having the ability to have children who will then become young adults themselves and continue the process.



Passing laws that dehumanize the unborn is certainly "forcing" a set of beliefs on the entire population. Sorry that some people don't wish to sit back with a smile on their face while infanticide is taking place. 46 million innocent lives have been lost since the 70's.


Again we will have to respectfully disagree. Our views on what is considered to be alive are opposite. The only path I can foresee now is argument, which I would like to avoid.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 07:35 PM
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reply to post by SevenBeans
 


No there isn't. Abortion has to be approved by two different doctors AND a psychological examination carried out before a doctor will perform one. Well, at least here it is.
edit on 23-2-2011 by ScorpioRising because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 07:35 PM
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reply to post by DocEmrick
 



Most pro-life are unintelligent bible beating morons who have no understanding of the true nature of the universe.


LOL...solid logic.

And then...


If a soul chooses a life plan that includes being killed early in the womb, it's likely that that soul is paying a karmaic debt of some kind.




Yes...that is an intelligent statement



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 07:38 PM
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Originally posted by Somehumanbeing
reply to post by MindSpin
 



1) Do you believe abortion during the first trimester is okay?


No.


2) Do you believe contraception is a right?


A right? I don't know if I would call it a right.

I believe everyone should practice safe sex and use contraception if they don't want to get pregnant, along with the knowledge that it is never 100% effective.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 07:39 PM
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reply to post by geekyone
 


Well,

1) She has had months of decision making (this is a BIG thing) to decide whether to keep it or not.

2) The child beyond the first trimester starts showing obvious signs of humanity (IMO) and is not comparable to a drop of semen anymore.

3) There many cases were babies are born prematurely and go on to live fruitful lives.

Overall, I believe there is a window to decide when to keep the child or not. And I believe that a woman would be thinking constantly about this life-changing decision, so much so that I expect her to arrive at a conclusion in the first three months.

I also believe and understand ( and it will seemingly be in opposition to what i said before) that beyond the first trimester, signs of a maternal bonding with the child will develop subconciously (a biological thing). If the mother wants to kill the baby beyond the first trimester with/without the emotional connection, it goes to show that she would not make a good mother in the first place and would probably smother her kids once they are born.

It is quite a complicated case IMO, but I still stand by that the first trimester is a good window.

edit on 23-2-2011 by Somehumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 07:39 PM
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Originally posted by jrmcleod
1. Its their own body but its NOT their life to take away.
2. You HONESTLY cant see how killing a child makes you a child killer???? You need to go back to school...
3. If the people you know were SO emotionally traumatised than WHY DO IT....WHEN ITS THEIR CHOICE AS YOU SO ELEQUENTLY PUT IT???? Maybe its because deep down they know they have killed a baby.
4. Babies can be born at 24 weeks and live...NO PROBLEM, to say its still a fetus is the most rediculous part of your thread...no wait its the bit about killing a child and not realising it makes you a child killer...
At the end of the day, people choose to have sex for pleasure and they end up creating life...if your so concerned about abortion, the law and whatever else pertaining to the subject...DONT HAVE UNPROTECTED SEX.


1) Actually, in almost every case, it IS their right. The fetus cannot survive without the mother's support until a certain maturity is reached. Even then it's never guaranteed.
2) It's not a child until it's born. Until then it's still a fetus. Before you go throwing stones about education, you might want to brush up on your own.
3) They do it because they feel they have no other choice. I'm pretty sure that the majority of people on the planet don't want to see a potential human life ended. But in some cases, that's the choice that gets made. And again, it's not a baby until it's born.
4) Yes. Babies CAN be born at 24 weeks, but the survival rate is around 25% according to the March of Dimes. And medically, an unborn child is still called a fetus. Sounding ridiculous doesn't magically make the facts go away.

It's easy to point fingers until you've walked in someone's shoes. Even if you have, you have no right to tell someone what they can do with THEIR life. In almost every case, the mother has the right to handle the pregnancy however she wants.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 07:41 PM
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Originally posted by geekyone
reply to post by ScorpioRising
 


I don't eat meat or approve of hunting etc.

Can I ask those of you who are pro-choice, why is a late abortion unacceptable to some of you. If the womans right to choose then why can't she choose a late abortion. This is a serious question,


See, so you can say that at least you are balanced in your anti-killing views


I guess for me it's because at 24 weeks it IS a fully formed baby and should be counted as such. Up until a certain point it is NOT a child, it IS a collection of cells and tissue. I believe the gestational limit should be lowered but that within that limit it is the individuals right to choose and request it.
But it's just what I believe. I would not force anyone else to believe the same.



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