Abortion, Genocide, what’s THE difference?!?!?!?!?.... do you condone murder???

Originally posted by ScorpioRising
reply to post by SevenBeans

 

No there isn't. Abortion has to be approved by two different doctors AND a psychological examination carried out before it's a doctor will perform one. Well, at least here it is.

Abortion on demand is available in england, I know enough women who have had them. You just have to say you are "not in the right place in your life" and they put it that you would suffer significant mental distress if the pregnancy continued

Originally posted by ScorpioRising
No there isn't. Abortion has to be approved by two different doctors AND a psychological examination carried out before it's a doctor will perform one. Well, at least here it is.

Never heard such a thing but I don't think it's true where I live (probably just a rubber stamp process anyhow). Even in that case though, I'd still say hunting deer has more conditions/restrictions etc. etc. than killing unborn humans. Some places don't allow you to hunt deer at all.

reply to post by HarmonicNights


Lol, no I do not and I didn't chose to ignore your statement of how it took 2 people to tango pardon the pun. You chose to destroy that statement by the statement you made in which you depicted the woman as being the only one at fault.

I am not undermining the responsibilities of being a stay at home mom. I am undermining the mentality that it is healthy to pretend that our society is different then it is. Regardless of your opinion or anyone else's on this thread. I highly doubt that the abortion laws will be changed. This entire thread is meant to cause chaos and disorder. It is a great way to pit one against another. About the same as saying that Christians are better then all other religions. No matter what you get a fight.

You are entitled to your views and opinions just as I am. Though I would say that you should ask yourself what you would do if you were faced in that situation. If you are indeed a woman then in my opinion that is something you should ask yourself before following the status quo.

Originally posted by MindSpin
reply to post by DocEmrick

 

Yes...that is an intelligent statement

How is it not?

Originally posted by geekyone

Originally posted by ScorpioRising
reply to post by SevenBeans

 

No there isn't. Abortion has to be approved by two different doctors AND a psychological examination carried out before it's a doctor will perform one. Well, at least here it is.

Abortion on demand is available in england, I know enough women who have had them. You just have to say you are "not in the right place in your life" and they put it that you would suffer significant mental distress if the pregnancy continued

That is a shame, I guess they've gotten lax with it all. While I don't agree that it should be illegal it should definately be better regulated.

Originally posted by MindSpin

Originally posted by Somehumanbeing
reply to post by MindSpin

 

1) Do you believe abortion during the first trimester is okay?

No.

2) Do you believe contraception is a right?

A right? I don't know if I would call it a right.

I believe everyone should practice safe sex and use contraception if they don't want to get pregnant, along with the knowledge that it is never 100% effective.

Well now we know something. Okay, so if you beleive that everyone should practice safe sex and use contraception if they don't want a pregnancy, then you agree that doing so, a male ejaculates into the contraceptive killing millions of potential children, similar to masturbation.

Now, during the first timester, the embryo lacks any brain activity until around the the ninth week, however it is still just a bundle of un-aware cells. In retrospect I may lower the abortion window IMO to 10 weeks. During those 10 weeks, it is similar to the result of contraception or masturbation with the exception that you are eliminating one potential child instead of millions.

How do you retort?

reply to post by MindSpin


You said: " You are right about one thing, I am not happy that I have no control from stopping selfish women from killing thier own children...yes...sour grapes indeed. Vile creatures who kill their own children should be stopped. "

So you admit that you want to Control other people?
Wow!!
Was't there a guy named Pol Pot (or some such) that took his control to extreme?
Killed everyone that didn't meet his expectations.

How do you propose to stop them?
Making abortion illegal will not stop them, as you know.
So what is your solution?
From reading your vitriol I suspect that you would like to kill them.
Control, control, control. Whew!
And as to your Forced Pregnancy, you should be advised that Slavery IS illegal.

One thing you really need to know....Hate is an Acid that destroys not only that upon which it is poured, but the vessel in which it is stored.

In my opinion you shouldn't have an abortion after the 8 week mark - 24 weeks is kind of nasty.

It 'is' murder.

Nothing wrong with removing a clump of cells though - Not much different then removing a few moles.

According to chinese medicine - the soul does not enter the body until the first heart beat of the child.

This is when it becomes murder - purely my opinion of course

Originally posted by MindSpin
reply to post by sweetstuff

 

I have an aunt that believed abortion was murder, and refused to do so when mandated by her doctors to do so, because it could kill her. She's now dead due to that pregnancy. So you can cheer her 'rightness' all the way to heaven if you want. Tough titties I suppose for the three young children she already had who were left without a mother to raise them. She made the "right" choice after all, she went to heaven I'm sure as a non-murderer. Excuse me while I go puke.

OH...I see...you don't support her CHOICE...huh???

Funny how that works....pro-choicers not supporting CHOICE.


Take your fem-nazism somewhere else please.

I don't agree with her choice, however it was her choice to make. I never stated otherwise... fem-nazism? Are you for real? And I'm entitled to my op same as you. If you want only opinions that agree with your own, I suggest you create your own webpage where you ban all contrary opinions. Otherwise, you'll just have to suck it up buttercup and agree to disagree.

Isn't the world overpopulated enough? All we need now is even more unfit mothers who are forced to have their babies.

reply to post by kevinunknown


Do you accept war and capital punishment? I have trouble with anti-abortionists when they can argue they're pro-life, but yet support wars and capital punishment. Pro-Life means just that. It just doesn't apply to abortion.


My stand on this? I don't believe in abortion, but I can't dictate to a women what they can do with their own bodies. We all have free will in this life and they must make that moral judgment. Governments shouldn't interfere in people's personal lives. Abortion is between a women and her maker. They will have to someday account for their decisions. I don't believe we should act like God and judge his creations. I would try to reason and persuade someone not to have an abortion, but in the end, it's their body their decision.

reply to post by doom27


So only unfit mothers have abortions.
What about all the posts about the womens rights, you are making these women sound incapable.

Originally posted by Somehumanbeing
Well now we know something. Okay, so if you beleive that everyone should practice safe sex and use contraception if they don't want a pregnancy, then you agree that doing so, a male ejaculates into the contraceptive killing millions of potential children, similar to masturbation.

A brand new human life begins at conception. This is scientific fact not opinion. Abortion ends that life.

If you don't see the difference between jerking off and ending a brand new human life... I don't know what to tell you, other than to say that I believe you are very confused sir.

reply to post by OhZone




If i hadn't seen who you had replied to i would have thought you were writing about

Hitler !!

reply to post by SevenBeans


There is no brain activity in the first ten weeks, just like there is no brain activity in a sperm cell.

If you were to remove a person's brain, and keep the body alive through artificial means, would you classify the body as a living being?

I feel abortion is wrong as well, but also feel terrible for the kind of life a child might endure who was unwanted to begin with. In situations other than rape every woman has a choice to be responsible and to NOT get pregnant. If you are going to have sex for anything other than it's sole intended purpose, you'd better darn well be responsible enough to take the necessary precautions that will prevent another life from being created and destroyed, be it in the womb or through a crappy life. And while I don't think abortion is right, and definitely should in the least have term limits, we should rest assured that God will hand down the punishment for those that choose abortion as a method to remedy their irresponsible actions. I don't think making abortion illegal will resolve anything. Abortion isn't the problem. The problem is a base, emotionally confused, irresponsible society, lacking in self esteem that glorifies sex as a recreational activity rather than a life creating, loving, intimate act between two people who are emotionally connected and dedicated to each other.

Originally posted by Somehumanbeing
There is no brain activity in the first ten weeks, just like there is no brain activity in a sperm cell.

A brand new human life begins at conception.

Only a crazy person would treat a brand new human life with no more ethical consideration than a sperm cell.

Originally posted by Gradius Maximus
In my opinion you shouldn't have an abortion after the 8 week mark - 24 weeks is kind of nasty.
It 'is' murder.
Nothing wrong with removing a clump of cells though - Not much different then removing a few moles.
According to chinese medicine - the soul does not enter the body until the first heart beat of the child.
This is when it becomes murder - purely my opinion of course

edit on 23-2-2011 by Gradius Maximus because: (no reason given)

Saying it does not make it true. It is NOT murder. Quit saying that it is. Then you go on to minimize it as if it was just a clump of cells. It's a fetus and it's a big deal to abort it and should never be taken lightly. Technically, we're all just a clump of cells.

reply to post by Somehumanbeing

Well now we know something. Okay, so if you beleive that everyone should practice safe sex and use contraception if they don't want a pregnancy, then you agree that doing so, a male ejaculates into the contraceptive killing millions of potential children, similar to masturbation.

Yes, but sperm doesn't have fully formed unique human DNA...and embryo does.

Now, during the first timester, the embryo lacks any brain activity until around the the ninth week, however it is still just a bundle of un-aware cells. In retrospect I may lower the abortion window IMO to 10 weeks. During those 10 weeks, it is similar to the result of contraception or masturbation with the exception that you are eliminating one potential child instead of millions.

How do you retort?

I disagree with your comparison of an embryo to sperm, because like I said an embryo has complete unique human DNA. And left to natural processes...an embryo will only develop into a human...sperm won't develop into anything.

It is not just a "clump of cells"...it is the beginning of life...all life needs a beginning. There is a starting point and an ending point to all biological processes. I think we all agree on the ending point of the biological process of life....death. Now where is that starting point to the biological process of life???

Is it when sperm and egg combine and form a complete human DNA and starts the proccess that will continue until death? (this is my position).

Or is it some random week designation that people have different opinions on for some higher function of life begins to show?

Or is it when the baby leaves the vagina?


My position is simple...the biological process of human life has a starting point and an ending point. I think we agree on the ending point...and my view is that the starting point is when sperm and egg combine to form a unique human DNA and starts the cell division process that last all the way up until death. Before this point there is not a unique human life. And that if anyone terminates that biological process...it is murder. Simple...no twisting...no distorting...no semantics.

A clearly defined starting point and a clearly defined ending point...the space between that is "life". Any termination of that process by another human is murder. Clear, straight forward, and concise.

Now your position of the arbitrary point of 10 weeks after conception seems to be your starting point. Can you tell me what that makes weeks 0 through 9? And can you tell me what happens at that 10 week mark that turns a "clump of cells" into a human life???

Originally posted by SevenBeans
A brand new human life begins at conception. This is scientific fact not opinion.

Please provide scientific proof of this assertion.

Please include link.