Zeitgeist Totally Refuted! (Do not post Zeitgeist BS ever again)

reply to post by Chinesis


I didn't emotionally compromise myself. I don't think you recognise an enemy when you see one.

I'm anti-theist - I deteste the very core ideology of theism; it's an insult to the human intelligence and a manipulation of our fears and hope. For that reason; the Theist is my intellectual enemy.

It's not to say that i don't understand context; i don't attack Theists in the street, nor do i wish to raise philosophical debates while in the company of my friends. More importantly, i would never seek to harm any human, nor would my beliefs in regards to the "GOD" question ever interfere or allow me to justify harm to another human.

You say you're spiritual. Define "spirit". Forgive me, and correct me if i am wrong but isn't the spirit (at the moment) an abstract construct which is an attempt to rationalise human conscioussness? Isn't everyone "spiritual"? Well.... i guess some are more nihilistic than others.

Are they not entitled to their opinion(s) just as you are entitled to your own?
I'm not religious.

What prejudice does my belief cause? To believe in dogma you have to subcribe to the prejudices that come with it, often most of them deriving from absolute claims such as heaven and hell.

Again, i believe this a wicked thing to preach to a child; at best it's deceptive and at worst it's a lie.

My beliefs don't give me a superiority complex, religious beliefs rely on exclusivity; of cause you would look down on an Atheist if you thought he was disobeying the master.



Please take a listen to this man, you may not agree with ALL of his points....

To sum up;

I don't think the Atheist are equally entitled to their beliefs. The Atheist doesn't claim to know the answers to the questions of the universe, the Theist does, the theist claims

a) He knows a being exists and b) what this being's desires and wishes are -

This is based on 0 evidence. I think this is deceptive and a rediculous assumption. It can't be believed by a thinking person and children should be left to make up their own minds.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
My beliefs don't give me a superiority complex

It can't be believed by a thinking person

Reconcile these two statements, please. You don't view yourself as superior, and yet you arrogantly claim that a person of faith is not a thinking person?

You're nothing, if not consistent -- the illogical and indefensible judgements of people who disagree with you are a staple of every argument that you seem to make.

reply to post by adjensen

the illogical

Theism is illogical, as i've explained. It can't be believed by a thinking person, whether it is true or not - Just on the lack of evidence alone.

And of course if you believe in objective morality, and an absolute God and the dogma such as heaven and hell - Then you will believe anyone who doesn't worship your specific God is going to hell. That's a superiority complex, because the regime is made to be totalitarian;-

PSALMS 23 - "The lord is my shepherd" - And the followers of the shepherd are the sheep. God is an illusion in the minds of men gone by, unfortunately it still is today, and still, without evidence.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by adjensen

 

the illogical

Theism is illogical, as i've explained.

No, it isn't. You've explained your perspective, gold star for you. You haven't explained its inherent lack of logic.

It can't be believed by a thinking person, whether it is true or not - Just on the lack of evidence alone.

Yes, it can. To say that it cannot is not only arrogant, it is illogical. I am a thinking person, and I am a theist. There is your contradiction which proves you wrong.

And of course if you believe in objective morality, and an absolute God and the dogma such as heaven and hell - Then you will believe anyone who doesn't worship your specific God is going to hell. That's a superiority complex, because the regime is made to be totalitarian;-

Once again, your lack of vocabulary is causing you to make invalid statements.

superiority complex
noun
an attitude of superiority that conceals actual feelings of inferiority and failure.

Who, between you and I, is acting arrogant and haughty? Who is claiming that the other "cannot think"? I'm not making a judgement as to whether you're masking feelings of inadequacy through your air of superiority, but arrogance is rarely simply a matter of self confidence run amok.

Still waiting, by the way, for you to explain why the historical evidence of communism's failings is not indicative of anything, and how you believe that Zeitgeist is feasible in your non-objective world. That silence has been deafening for a couple of weeks now, hasn't it?

WTF. Why no sources people?

This is just the same what everyone does, you cannot consider being taken seriously, if the info packet you put forth is hard to follow/ a lot to walk through / sourceless pile of considerations..

This is the same with all websites, everyone sharing a christianic view or perspective in the internet.. That is not a working way to convert anyone.. You need to be clear, and you need to have clear irrefutable sources - a presentation that is easy to follow and not filled with only religious beliefs..

I do not have the slightest will to watch the youtube clips even further..

reply to post by adjensen

No, it isn't. You've explained your perspective, gold star for you.

It is illogical. Committing to a theory before having evidence is illogical and backward, it's not just my "perspective". More importantly it's the theory of 2000+ year old man, most of it is incorrect and contradictory; they were incorrect about many things, it would be foolish to put "faith" in other preachments or claim to truth.

Thanks for the gold star though.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by adjensen

 

No, it isn't. You've explained your perspective, gold star for you.

It is illogical. Committing to a theory before having evidence is illogical and backward, it's not just my "perspective".

You're on record in this thread of intentionally ignoring evidence that proves you wrong, so why are you basing any judgements on the acceptance or rejection of evidence? Evidence appears to be arbitrary in your world, just like morality, I guess,

reply to post by adjensen


bAHAHAHAH.

what a wit.

Originally posted by undo

Originally posted by shagreen heart
well, iirc, and i'm not going to look it up because i honestly don't care, original sin is a catholic concept. it's completely insane. it's the religious trump card that keeps you in eternal fear, shame, guilt, fear. it's a newer construct as well. to think that god would damn his children for doing the one thing they must do to continue as a species, is one of the most outrageous ideas and claims in religion. and to put that entire realm of damnnation on the shoulders of a child is nothing short of abuse. you will ruin their mind's. look at how most catholics behave anyway, they grew up and were strictly abused and sexually repressed and suppressed, and look how they behave as adults with these issues? they become sexual predators, pedophiles, all while wearing the cloak and preaching from the bible, and continuing the cycle.

is that something you would do to your child? take away the familiar terms, catholic, sin, god, would subjecting children of all things be a sane thing to do? for the sake of a BELIEF?

i don't think teaching abstinence was originally meant to be a form of abuse.

in buddhism and hinduism it's a life choice, similar to asceticism. you're taught to rechannel sexual energy into some other endeavor. in fact, pretty much every thorough self help book touches on the subject.

the big difference here is: if my theories are accurate, when we were clones, we didn't reproduce, so sex was irrelevant. after we were modified to reproduce (perhaps a slicing of dna with mammalian dna), we suddenly could reproduce and this wasn't the most popular choice for the planet. it made cloning unnecessary and gave the whole thing a hands free productivity. considering the texts all suggest were originally created as slaves for some entities who, at least half of which, were not on the planet most of the time, having self-reproducing slaves made things easier in an engineering sort of way but had longer term issues. those issues related to the mammalian tendencies that went along with the modifications: territorial, anger, hate, jealousy, murder, etc. which in a well ordered universe would seem characteristically misplaced in a sentient being.

no no no no no no, now just wait a minute.

abstinence is a choice.
you do know exactly what the term and concept of "original sin" means exactly, correct? if not, please look it up properly, as i may have been confusing.
however, when your whole world and belief system revolves around god and getting into heaven and not sinning, abstinence is not a choice, it's a sexually repressing unwritten law that will, with 100% certainty, give you complexes and traumas and issues that will surface in your psyche later in life because you couldn't act how you needed to act, or feel what you needed to feel according to your biology, not some insane nurturing brainwash program. abstinence isn't a choice at all for someone who holds the original sin over your young mind like a sword of damocles. it absolutely is abuse, mental abuse and duress (because the threats have no actual consequence except your mental health. you only THINK you will be outcast from heaven and the programming condemns your mind to torture itself, and eventually, those around you).

now, only in a society that embraces sexuality and is comfortable with it, educated on it's purposes, for both necessity and pleasure, can we ever begin to imagine a society where it would be our choice not to practice sex for whatever reason, such as you have brought up. kama sutra anyone? the culture you're talking about is very educated and open about sexuality, therefore, they can transcend it and funnel their sexual prana or whatever into themselves for enlightenment. that's a very different thing altogether now. you have to know both aspects before you can choose to become abstinent, there's no exception. you have to be able to understand fully the sacrifice you're making and what it means for your society. you can't just become a nun and.. do what? torture young minds with sexual repression and cripple their adult psyches? no i'm very sorry, but that's not how it works. and you definitely can't become a nun to punish others for the wrongs you did in life, and project that punishment, that's even more insane. i don't understand how anyone can be ok with these behaviors christianity/catholicism exhibits. it's pure fear and hate, and when you start with those things, you only end with those things. you can't start with hate and end with love. just like you can't start with love and end with hate.

love > love. catholicism and modern christianity are ABSOLUTELY beholden upon fear and guilt to thrive. how many christians do you know turn the other cheek? how many do you know that don't support the war in iraw? how many others do you know that can forgive the evils of the world no matter what, and will feed and clothe the murderers of their family members as if they were their family? do you think that if america were attacked (legitly) by an outside force, the christians of this counry would rise up and say "NO, FORGIVE THEM, DO NOT FIGHT BACK?" no. you'd hear "SMOKE 'EM OUT!" because they're all completely mindf#ed. they just hold on to jesus because they are so lost mentally, they just paste jesus on their personality as a front. christians are the dumbest, absolute reverse mind-bogglingly stupid people i have ever experienced or witnessed in my life. you don't just suddenly become so stupid, it's by design. there are tribes of people still living in the jungle who have more cunning and intellect and sense of humor and sophistication and intelligence and philosophy than these people.

sorry, ranting right now.
anyway, christians and catholics aren't "teaching" abstinence. they are demanding it without choice and with fear, and if you fail, well, you are damned to eternal hellfire, just like your parents, cause they gave birth to a child just like every single human and monkey or monkey alien hybrid before you!
they are NOT teaching safe sex, sex education, the importance of understanding all aspects of sex and sexuality, openess to sexuality and sexual preferences, or the act of sex as pleasure between two people. marriage has nothing to do with it, there is nothing logical about it, it's just more fear mongering, and a form of eugenics. monogamy is great i'm sure, some people are just monogamists, and that's wonderful for them, i mean it. but really, were supposed to be polygamists, and spread our genes around. i don't really have a problem seeing white people fade away. but then again i love the diversity of everyone. so whatever.

honestly, the worst part is that these things are all based on BELIEFS and NOTHING factual whatsoever. now, you could say the same thing about the sexual prana and how not unleashing your sexuality could benefit you, but that's also a belief (one that holds more merit than hell and sin and all that bull# though). but the point is, it's a choice, because those people are also open sexually.

how does NOBODY see the connection between the sexual repression of catholic/christian children, and the amount of sexual abuse by priests on children, or other sexual deviations from their "belief"? lots of anti-gay legislation people in the government end up being gay, lots of priests end up being gay or sodomizing/raping children. nobody understands where that comes from?

reply to post by shagreen heart


Good luck friend - They will argue your points to the end, even if they are valid or irrefutable - That's what it means to be a believer; bend evidence, twist ideology, interpret verses away from their original meaning, look down on non-believers. Subscribe to un-verified ideas, metaphysical claims - A believer has no need to verify evidence, that's what it means to be a believer, to have faith.

Faith is the most overrated virtue.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by adjensen

 

No, it isn't. You've explained your perspective, gold star for you.

It is illogical. Committing to a theory before having evidence is illogical and backward, it's not just my "perspective". More importantly it's the theory of 2000+ year old man, most of it is incorrect and contradictory; they were incorrect about many things, it would be foolish to put "faith" in other preachments or claim to truth.

Thanks for the gold star though.

And what if you had evidence and then believed a theory? Not all people are indoctrinated to believe in religion. Some people have experiences that gives them good reason to believe. Or do you doubt everything you perceive and experience because they are non-transferable?

Incidentally how much faith do you put into scientific theories you've never studied or experimented with before. Do you believe in string theory? What about the "multiple worlds" interpretation? Or do you believe in hidden variables to explain entanglement? If so, why? If not, why not?

reply to post by 547000


Subjective experience cannot be trusted and isn't an objective means of verifying a claim.

Just because 1 person heard or saw something doesn't make it true, often it's a misunderstanding, possibly natural phenomenon mistaken as something "holy" or sometimes the brain playing tricks on you.

No one has ever provided objective means to back up the bible's claims, for that reason - it cannot be trusted, if you do trust it, it's an incredible leap of faith.

The bible and other scriptures have got MANY MANY "FACTS" incorrect, what makes you trust them about "GOD"?

double

reply to post by shagreen heart


so you think our kids should have a choice about abstinence when they're little kids?
or, single teens with no viable way to care for a child? didn't hurt me a bit for mom to warn me about premartial sex. don't think it was even remotely abusive, although i did get some abuse from guys who thought taking me out to dinner should automatically resolve down into sexual congress. when i said no, they took me home, early. it dawned me at that point, that perhaps i should date guys who had same ideas about staying celibate till marriage, and when i made that choice, i met the best guy. who i married. and am still married to.

and before you launch into a tirade about masturbation or homosexuality, you must first ask me what my view is on those subjects. cause i'm not gonna let you stereotype me.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


i can provide objective claims (Based on the current standards of objectivity) for what the bible claims, but only what it claims, not traditions established by the vatican 1000 years ago.

reply to post by shagreen heart

christians are the dumbest, absolute reverse mind-bogglingly stupid people i have ever experienced or witnessed in my life

READ THIS WHOLE THING BEFORE YOU COMMENT

i'm a painter, author, poet, musician, mother of three, have dutifully paid my taxes and contributed to many different charities, i'm an herbalist and was in college to be a doctor of natural medicine, but my elderly mother who had advanced alzheimers, who i was caring for at the time, would cry every time i left the house and kept going walk about, so i had to stay home and care for her..

i was on the dean's list and the president's list and wrote a paper in humanities class about the similarities between horus and jesus (and that was almost two decades ago, before zeitgeiist even thought of the similarities ). i was invited to a science and technology university because of my dedication to learning i guess. (can't be because i'm smart at all, according to you, anyway).

i'm also a calligraphist, an afficiando of lexicography, have quite a bit of knowledge about ancient cultures and their writings, and can play a mean game of world of warcraft. i put my kids in karate for phys ed, and now the oldest is a sensei. two of them can speak and read japanese.

i'm really disappointed that you can't tell the difference between the stuff on tv and reality.

here's a painting i did of a female angel (was told after i did this, that females were not angels lol so on top of being stupid, i'm also not angelic quality. who woulda thunk it? not i, says the dummy)

reply to post by awake_and_aware


I take it that you witnessing something with your own five senses can't establish reality for you? So if you were to witness something no one else can verify, like walking down a alley one night and shaking hands with a beggar named Jim, you would suppose Jim may have been an illusion that never existed, because no one else can vouch for your encounter with Jim?

reply to post by awake_and_aware


which "FACTS" does the bible have incorrect?
be sure before you list them, that the bible does indeed say that, in original hebrew.
if you can't be bothered, then why the pretense of being bothered?

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by shagreen heart

 

christians are the dumbest, absolute reverse mind-bogglingly stupid people i have ever experienced or witnessed in my life

The person who writes a sentence as poorly constructed as that one is a fine example of "the pot calling the kettle black", lol.

Nice generalization, Ace, but completely off the mark. Some of the most brilliant minds in all history have been Christians. Go "experience" something called learning by reading the works of Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, Martin Luther, or Isaac Newton, and be ashamed by your ignorance.

Who do you think that you are impressing with such sweeping insults? Apart from yourself and your fellow sheep, that is.

reply to post by shagreen heart



love > love. catholicism and modern christianity are ABSOLUTELY beholden upon fear and guilt to thrive. how many christians do you know turn the other cheek? how many do you know that don't support the war in iraw? how many others do you know that can forgive the evils of the world no matter what, and will feed and clothe the murderers of their family members as if they were their family? do you think that if america were attacked (legitly) by an outside force, the christians of this counry would rise up and say "NO, FORGIVE THEM, DO NOT FIGHT BACK?" no. you'd hear "SMOKE 'EM OUT!" because they're all completely mindf#ed. they just hold on to jesus because they are so lost mentally, they just paste jesus on their personality as a front. christians are the dumbest, absolute reverse mind-bogglingly stupid people i have ever experienced or witnessed in my life. you don't just suddenly become so stupid, it's by design. there are tribes of people still living in the jungle who have more cunning and intellect and sense of humor and sophistication and intelligence and philosophy than these people. "


whoa???/ Did you really spit all that vitriolic crap about an imaginary monster THAT CAME OUT OF YOUR HEAD, NOT OURS and start it all by starting to teach us about the definition of love?
Are you kidding?
Are you losing your mind?
Does anyone in real life believe you are some enlightened being when you so easily fly off the handle accusing everyone you disagree with as the monster you created in your head from reading someone elses biased presupposed thoughts.
You are doing nothing but accessing your own mind and spitting out someone elses prethought-thoughts that you have memorized so that you can attack the GOLEM you created from nothing but hate...but wait, you are teaching us about real love..go on...


btw, you seemed obsessed with sex.
It is scientifically proven that sex is better in a covenant relationship that is honored.
Sorry, I personally feel I am above the animals and can exercise my free will to attain higher ideals than appealing to my basest animal urges that only seek temporary fulfillment.
Compare the difference found in the definition of love from the act of sex with an anon partner and that gained from a covenant relationship honored by 2 parties.
You see the idea of physical attraction as the foundation of love drifts quickly into fantasy when the higher ideals of love are addressed from building endurance commited to loving and caring another and others.
You seem to get stuck in the lowest identification of "love". To me I think you must watch too many Colgate commercials to get your idea of love.
Mine comes from higher ideals and yes, I found them in my faith and study.
You got yours from tv