Is Social Security the next thing to be cut or taken away?

reply to post by Rockpuck


You seem to have a great interst in the people on disabilities, are you an NWO agent//

MODS tried to reply but, didn,t work anyways I definately felt it is on topic when the arrogance of said poster keeps demeaning dis= abled people

The problem with SS is it's primary mission. Was it really a retirement plan? No. Could it have been designed better? Oh, definitely. But what was it's primary purpose? Political power. To create a underclass of retirees that would be beholden to the Democrats. And create a large voting block to vote democratic in order to preserve their SS benefits. Also there was all that money for them to play with as well. Big win for the Democrats of the 1930's.

The problem is currently that the base of taxpayers is shrinking. It started out at around 40 payers to one but it has been shrinking since the 1950's. Simply put there is not enough coming in so SS is starting to go into the red. And there is the rub. If you raise taxes you damage the economy. If the overall tax rate on the taxpayers goes too high it eventually makes no sense to work. You can make more money on welfare. Tax evasion becomes the standard. The rich simply move away. There simply is a point in the tax to income ratio where raising taxes simply causes tax income to fall. And the economy to suffer. Recession/depression anyone?

What is going to happen to SS is simple. When the imbalance between benefits and taxes becomes too great the benefits will be reduced proportionally. To match inflow to outflow. The 900 dollar a mo. benefit will drop to 780. Then $600. Currently the difference goes into the general fund and SS gets a IOU. Ones that can never really be repaid because they will cause the regular budget deficit to explode. Once the SS fund gets too far into the red the benefits will just get reduced.

The long term solution would be an automatic percentage of income into retirement funds. Just think of the piles of money that would be floating in the system if say 1 percent of everyone's income had gone into private savings plans since the 1930's. There would be people retiring as millionaires now. They never would have needed a SS benefit in the first place. And there would have been all that money in the system looking for interest.

Then so botched SS for political gains. When a properly set up system could have done so much more for the country. What SS really is was a conspiracy to put and keep Democrats in office.

If you want to see something terrifying go look at the picture here and fill in the last few years. The current budgen deficit? 1.4 trillion dollars. They won't be able to keep that up long.



The current deficient is 3 times lower than the lowest peak on that graph.

Originally posted by condition9
reply to post by Rockpuck

 

You seem to have a great interst in the people on disabilities, are you an NWO agent//

Yes.

That's exactly what I am.

I don't have a problem with people that are disabled. I have a problem with people that just because they are disabled (unless truly disabled, cannot function because of a major medical issue...... not like the OP) means they shouldn't have to work like the rest of us.

I've sadly known, seen and read about to many people with "disabilities" to believe in the system.. Ohhh how many time's I've heard "I hurt my back doing (insert stupidity) and now I can't work!" BS .. plenty of jobs you can do. or "Ohh I can't work I feel sad allll the time < notice the sad face" BS you can work. "Ohh I can't work because I have an illness (unless your on chemo or bed ridden doesn't work on me) and my absolute favorite, I've met 2 people personally that were on SS because they were morbidly obese. Granted they were fat as all hell but common .. sit your lard ass down on a stool and take orders in a drive through. Think of the free mcnuggets!

I really don't have a problem paying old people to make sure they get their meds and their housing covered.. at some point they are essentially back to being children. But sadly, like all Government programs, it's been destroyed. Mostly by "disabled" people sucking up the funds. For ever miserable individual that cannot work for a living that's money taken from grandma.

Wrap your mind around that for a minute. The government took your money, whether you wanted them to or not, and stuck it in a “retirement” account for “your own good”. Then, it stole all the money (also for your own good) and used it to pay for other programs that became just as bankrupt as Social Security. Then it replaced the money it stole with an IOU, that can only be paid back by borrowing more money (putting the nation as a whole further into debt), or by raising taxes (crippling the net income of every middle class American).

Regardless of what you may have been told. A treasury Bond is NOT money. It is a statement of debt, a promise, an IOU, thats all it is, nothing more. We can all sit around and argue this fact until we are blue in the face, but none of that will ever change the fact that Social Security is completely bankrupt, and totally supported by generational looting.

A program that pays out more that it is receives cannot be sustained. They say fixing this program requires drastic measures. Measures like raising the retirement age, increasing the Social Security Tax on every income level across the board, and paying out less to it’s recipients. The other alternative that will be handed to you is to privatize the entire thing, which is essentially paying a corporate entity to manage the investment aspect of Social Security. Neither of these options will do anything other than purchase a few more years of retirement checks paid for by future generations, and make the deficit wider.

READ MORE : objectsinmotion.org...

Something I wrote on the subject, hope it helps.

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Forget what I previously said. Considering the national debt and the current deficit I would say without drastic action the government will go bankrupt in a few years if that. And the coming hyperinflation will simply wipe SS out of existence with all the government's social programs.

Hope you are invested in gold.


And Osama bin Laden wins his war against the US because they spent themselves into oblivion. Like the Russians in the 1980's

OP wager, 2 to 3 years... finish those classes...

The democrats will not let go of this so soon so at least two years... think of opening your own minority owned business... aqpply for all the federal money you can...


As for those jumping....

I will respond to those that served... so did I... The disability this person listed is an impedment to most of the jobs you spoke of... until you order the congressmen to construct better health care treatment ofr the psychiatric disorders and release those technologies they are controling... I side with the OP... society is safer with the mentally disabled as they are for now...

What about the elderly who are aldready on it?

They had a deal made with them... Are they to be held liable for the liars who spent the money? Guilt via association..

I thought in the military we left no one behind... no one... especially those who went before....

reply to post by Rockpuck


when my third fight is over I want you to promise me you will read my victory post...

I feel it will be enlightening...

So, I want to understand your point...

cut it all or rework who gets what?

how do you distinguish....

I am going to star all your post here for having the fortitude to take a very unpopular side...

reply to post by dreamseeker


To be honest, social security is probably the least of our worries. As of the latest numbers, it will be ok until 2037, which is a long way out. We have way more important issues that could change life as we know it in the next 1-10 years and those should be a priority. Not to mention, the chance of us still using the USD in 20+ years is next to zero . just my 2c

reply to post by Rockpuck


Puck. Some people are not physically able to work. Lets break your back and see how well you work after that.. Or lets drop a steel I beam on you, or run you over, or what have you.

Social Security is there for a reason! You and I will probably depend on it and need it horribly.

Oh wait we will never see it anyway. There is no retiring.

reply to post by Rockpuck

The problem is you are not judge and jury and like the govt." tends to try to play God in that respect "I have more respect for people that contain the judgements on people who are in bad spots, as well you may be sometime rather than have the arrogance as such How did you get such a loving avatar?

First and foremost I apologize for the many hard-hearted comments from fellow ATS'ers. Your post has certainly exposed the underbelly of those bottom fish.

However, you need to do something about the depression you manifest and the fear you express. Why honestly do you think that Social Security will go belly-up anytime soon despite the ill-wishes expressed here? Your fear screams to you that it will but that's not realistic unless people want to see the disabled and the old folks dying on the streets.

A more likely scenario is that inflation will skyrocket to the point that the dole you receive now won't even support your cats in the future but by that time everybody will be in the same rocky boat. And things will be even more serious for the unemployed, and soon to be unemployed, because surely those healthy will suffer even more..

So perhaps you can take solace in the fact that you'll have money coming in when many others won't. Even if you're eating cat food and crackers you'll be better off than the healthy that can only look forward to marching off to a sandy grave in the Middle-East in the WW3 that's just around the corner with 210 million unemployed in the Western world (and increasing).

Stop feeling sorry for yourself, or at least, stop dumping your misery on those around you. It's unseemly and only encourages the ill-will expressed herein. Count your blessings and live in the moment... for tomorrow you may die, and meanwhile, enjoy the show of life in interesting times.

I doubt that the SS Admin is going to change their rules and also doubt there will be any serious reevaluation of existing SS Disability claims regardless of how much the system needs it. Perhaps a meager adjustment of benefit payouts and a harder approach to new disability claims which have increased two-three-fold since the depression began.

By the way, lately I've discovered that I have more in common with NWO goals than I have with the uneducated unwashed mass of Lemmings.

Originally posted by ntech
And there is the rub. If you raise taxes you damage the economy. If the overall tax rate on the taxpayers goes too high it eventually makes no sense to work. You can make more money on welfare. Tax evasion becomes the standard. The rich simply move away. There simply is a point in the tax to income ratio where raising taxes simply causes tax income to fall. And the economy to suffer. Recession/depression anyone?

Raising taxes on the middle class hurts consumer spending but raising taxes on the wealthy does not damage the economy. In fact, it helps the economy. It reduces the deficit, and it gets that money into circulation with the multiplier effect. The top tax bracket is at the lowest historical rate in a LONG time. From the 1950's to the 1980's when the US economy was growing by leaps and bounds, the top rate was far above 50%. And now the fascists complain when Obama suggests to raise it from 39 to 42% ? Unreal.


Also what you're referring to is the Laffer curve. Most people don't interpret it correctly. You always hear conservatives say tax revenue will go up if you lower taxes, on the theory that there will be more economic activity, and hence more revenue due to an increase in the number of transactions taxed. That's the simplistic way of interpreting it and it's flat wrong. It's not a linear function There is no way to tell where you are on the curve. If you lower taxes, revenue an go down or go up. If you raise taxes, revenue can go down or go up. It's constantly adjusting.

The problem is income distribution has gotten completely out of whack due to globalization. The few people at the top are making more money than ever. However 95% of people's income is stagnant or going backwards. It has nothing to do with them being lazy. American worker productivity is at an all time high. The system is rigged against the average person.

Social Security is fine. It's a red herring to talk about how it's bankrupting us. If the SS tax is extended to include all personal income, including money above the $130,000 cut off, it's solvency is assured until long past any of us will be around. The extreme right is using the financial crisis as an excuse to get rid of SS, merely on ideological principles. They believe in social darwinism. The problem is all the money is just getting funneled to the top because of compound interest. The wealthiest people have more than they can even spend.

Did you hear about that KC Royals baseball player who is walking away from a 12 million contract, retiring because he isn't playing well, just sitting on the bench, and thinks he doesn't deserve it ? Well he's already incredibly rich and knows, once you've got 30 million in the bank, another 12 million is meaningless, and he'd rather spend the time with his family.

It's insane the way they changed the estate tax. The majority of rich people are not any smarter or hard working than the middle class. For every Bill Gates or Steve Jobs, there are hundreds of millionaires that simply inherited it. It's like royalty from the middle ages.

It's proven the economy functions better with a strong middle class. The extreme right hates the middle class. They want the US to be like Mexico. Where you are either rich as all hell, or a peasant. Peasants are easier to control. That's also why they hate education. They send their kids to Ivy League, but don't want anyone else to have the same advantages. It's been like that for a long time. Society has always been economically stratified, but it's gotten to a tipping point. Most people are doing terribly, while the elite are living better than ever.

Regarding SS, I do think there is a lot of fraud, waste, and abuse. There are many people who are scamming the system, that are not legitimately disabled. "Mental disabilities"' are much easier to fake than physical conditions, since there is no physical proof. But the whole system is not in jeopardy of going under, unless TPTB continue to give the rich a free ride, and not make them contribute to the society that let them get their wealth in the first place. Even most rich people agree they don't pay enough taxes. It's the ignorant poor that have been brainwashed and manipulated into thinking the rich deserve their ill gotten gains, that permit politicians to constantly spout nonsense about how we need to cut back on SS. /rant over

reply to post by dreamseeker


Look at this way. The government has to make drastic cuts,but there not. It's nothing more than sheeple cutting down on Phone calls ,turning off the Outside lights, and lights out after 10PM to reduce the household budget.

Cut Military Budgets or Social Security, gee tough choice.
All I'll say is BOOM, and full speed ahead boys

Originally posted by dreamseeker
reply to post by trailertrash

 

I don't know who to vote for anymore. Republican and democrat seem to overlap for me. They both lie, manipulate and try to take more and more away from the weakest and poorest.

It is tough sometimes to figure it out. I believe that those who lie are not true representatives of their parties so when considering how to vote if those can be overlooked maybe a better decision can be made.

I am registered "non-partisan" which is a REAL independent. This way I get a ballot that allows choices from all camps. The result anymore is that I vote for the person rather than for the party.

Look, I know there are people who depend on entitlement programs and these are the people who truly need the help. But, there are too many people abusing it and many of programs need to be cut if this nation is going to survive. It's a tough statement and i know many people think it is immoral as many people will be without any government support if we do cut or eliminate these programs. But, if we don't, there will no longer be a USA to be dependant on. Everyone hates the "No" guy, but, we need more if this counrty is going to live on. There is no empire in history that has succeeded. Now, throw in an empire where its citizens are living off the government? No Aztec did that, no Roman, No Japansese. It is Illogical. Just because we are the largest and most prosperous nation, does not mean we are immune to the laws of economics and nature. Life itself is a struggle. This is the natural way, no wolf relies on another for its food.

I understand there are people who need help, but there should be more determination to make sure that these people are the ONLY ones receiving it. If you think people are not abusing these programs, you are living in a fantasy world. MANY of these programs need to be cut or eliminated if you want to see any government in place at all. Let's see how much sympathy martial law shows you. These programs are sinking the ship