Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
You'd stir things up and risk nuking the world to protect the US's 'right' to cultural imperialism (polluting foreign cultures with garbage) and the profits of the already mega profitable corporations, huh?
God save us all from this insanity.

I like that Cultural Imperialism. However, Sminkey, unlike the tradition bound countries of Europe, America is a blend of multiple cultures, with more groups than you can shake a stick at contributing to the overall "American" experience. If the people in those cultures really thought of Levis, McDonalds, and Coke as "Garbage" then they simply would not buy thses products. Most people do have a choice. France if I recall tried or is trying to preserve its cultural identity, but if the people are not intersted they will adopt whatever they feel suits thier needs.

Just because American cultural icons are worldwide does not constitute garbage. Nor did I see protests when KFC opened up in Bejing.

Originally posted by FredT
I like that Cultural Imperialism.

- I knew there'd be some here would like that kind of thing!

However, Sminkey, unlike the tradition bound countries of Europe, America is a blend of multiple cultures, with more groups than you can shake a stick at contributing to the overall "American" experience.

- I agree with this as a general rule of thumb within the US (how could it not be the place is so vast and the various peoples so numerous?) but unfortunately the exported stuff is kind of limited, would you not agree?

If the people in those cultures really thought of Levis, McDonalds, and Coke as "Garbage" then they simply would not buy thses products.

- That's true in theory but then again would you just stand and watch your ancient culture undermined and ignored by those attracted by one whos very essence is full of (what you see as) deeply questionable if not outright harmful ethics such as packaging over substance, instant gratification, debt, short-termism and a rejection of tradition.

Most people do have a choice. France if I recall tried or is trying to preserve its cultural identity, but if the people are not intersted they will adopt whatever they feel suits thier needs.

- Yes it is true that the French are attempting to protect elements of their own culture. As is their right.

Just because American cultural icons are worldwide does not constitute garbage. Nor did I see protests when KFC opened up in Bejing.

Well pulling each other's tails aside, let's be serious Fred. Of course this isn't a case of either or.

Not all 'US cullture' is garbage but equally McDonalds or Disney isn't high culture either and setting a McD's on every street corner going or refusing to allow the distribution of the latest Holly wood 'block-buster' isn't enslaving 'the people'.

In my own experience for instance McD's versus traditional French bakeries is a no-brainer and the French have been absolutely right to stop McD's wreaking the traditional backdrop of their way of life. Don't worry guys, you're already making fantastic profits, you'll get over it.

The French, rightly IMO, have made sure they do what they can to protect their own ways, pity not everybody followed their lead. It didn't have to be a total 'shut-out' but equally it didn't have to be a total 'come on in and take over'.

Far too many towns and cities in the world now look utterly alike IMO - and it's a loss for us all.

Far too many towns and cities in the world now look utterly alike IMO - and it's a loss for us all

yeah especially in europe,capital cities are all extremely similar

Originally posted by AD5673
China wont do s_hit. They would be very stupid to start a war with America or Russia. They are probably just scared the U.S. will turn their back on them, like TC said. Russia has missle defense, and could shoot the nuke down. And it was Russia who gave nuclear technology to China so they would know how to deal with their own nukes.

Boss, for sure China is very serious about Taiwan. How would you feel if New York state wanted to separate from the US and France helped the Governor acquiring its own missiles, weapons and so on? Do you think the US administration would ignore this?

Originally posted by WisdomMaster

Boss, for sure China is very serious about Taiwan. How would you feel if New York state wanted to separate from the US and France helped the Governor acquiring its own missiles, weapons and so on? Do you think the US administration would ignore this?

THe difference is, while New York is definately a part of the United States (one of the founding states as a matter of fact), Taiwan most definately IS NOT a part of China.

I have never thought about this, but it surely means extreme threat to the US. Just imagine, if some insane idiots press that button... or an accident may occur over there... well, the US is definately heading to China...

Originally posted by ludahai

Originally posted by WisdomMaster

Boss, for sure China is very serious about Taiwan. How would you feel if New York state wanted to separate from the US and France helped the Governor acquiring its own missiles, weapons and so on? Do you think the US administration would ignore this?

THe difference is, while New York is definately a part of the United States (one of the founding states as a matter of fact), Taiwan most definately IS NOT a part of China.

Huh? What do you mean Taiwan is definitely not part of China?

For most of her history, Taiwan was always a part of China. Taiwan has been part of China longer than USA even existed.

So please explain why Taiwan is DEFINITELY not part of China?

USA today recognizes only one China.

If Taiwan ever declared Independence, do you know what would happen? War! China will not hesitate to use force by whatever means is necessary to prevent Taiwan's independence.

If the USA wants to get involved, then she must be willing to die herself because there is no way China will allow Taiwan to separate itself from the mainland. Just as the North was prepared to die to prevent the South from leaving the union in the Civil war, China is willing to die to prevent this.

I don't care what the USA says or does. China will NOT allow Taiwan to depart. If the Americans value Taiwan so much, be prepared to pay the ultimate price. Your own destruction!

According to anonymous disclosure, China has thousands of warheads, not 400 officially listed. It can destroy the USA, and also destroy the world through nuclear winter.

Of course this will never happen because the USA politicians know this. They will not come to Taiwan's aid through direct means. They may try to sell arms or such, but ultimately, America will not directly involve itself. Nor should it because this is an internal matter.

Originally posted by goldenboy

Originally posted by ludahai

Originally posted by WisdomMaster

Boss, for sure China is very serious about Taiwan. How would you feel if New York state wanted to separate from the US and France helped the Governor acquiring its own missiles, weapons and so on? Do you think the US administration would ignore this?

THe difference is, while New York is definately a part of the United States (one of the founding states as a matter of fact), Taiwan most definately IS NOT a part of China.

Huh? What do you mean Taiwan is definitely not part of China?

For most of her history, Taiwan was always a part of China. Taiwan has been part of China longer than USA even existed.

So please explain why Taiwan is DEFINITELY not part of China?

ludahai is a diehard member of Taiwan Independence. He is impossible to reason. Trying to argument with him is simply wasting your time.

I reasoned with him before without noticing he is from Taiwan. For him, the resolution can only be found in battlefield.

Zcheng, I'm curious to know what is your stance? You promote no war with US and China, yet you seem to persist in stating that people will learn their lessons on the battlefield or you will greet them there. Exactly what are you trying to preach here?

Originally posted by Blackout
Zcheng, I'm curious to know what is your stance? You promote no war with US and China, yet you seem to persist in stating that people will learn their lessons on the battlefield or you will greet them there. Exactly what are you trying to preach here?

My stance is well stated in my signature: US should not implicat itself in Taiwan Strait. Taiwan is the core interest of China, and there is no way for China to back off from preventing Taiwan Independence. If US do not mend its policy on Taiwan Strait, we can foresee the collision of two Giants:US and China. The end result is the mutual destruction of both US and China.

With regards to battlefield, even if US do not support Taiwan Independence, there will still be diehard TI members like ludahai in Taiwan to seek Taiwan Independence. For them, they will find their luck in battlefield.

Above is my stance on the matter.

The US is supporting their allies. Taiwan is in the same situation as America a couple years back. France aided America's independance and America is aiding Taiwanese independance.

If there is in fact a war that rips apart the world, we're going to look back at this 80 years from now and call ourselves stupid for having risked so much for a small island. Ultimately, we would be better off settling this peacefully because no matter how much you'd want the US to not get into this war, you know deep inside it's inevitable.

Originally posted by Blackout
If there is in fact a war that rips apart the world, we're going to look back at this 80 years from now and call ourselves stupid for having risked so much for a small island. Ultimately, we would be better off settling this peacefully because no matter how much you'd want the US to not get into this war, you know deep inside it's inevitable.

Then we will see the consequences I have stated above.

Don't get me wrong but I'm pretty sure there are Chinese people that have no desire of confronting the US military. Perhaps you're just an extremist as there are plenty of Chinese people that have no intention of going to war with the US or even Taiwan for that matter.

Originally posted by Blackout
Don't get me wrong but I'm pretty sure there are Chinese people that have no desire of confronting the US military. Perhaps you're just an extremist as there are plenty of Chinese people that have no intention of going to war with the US or even Taiwan for that matter.

No sane Chinese want to fight US. At the same time, if US attacking PLA or China over Taiwan, over 95% of Chinese people will fight US to the end.

I am sure there are people in US who do not want to fight PLA another time.

i dont understand you guys, why do u bother countin how many missiles china or usa has, or what strength they are? does it matter? if one nation launches at another, the retaliation would be almost instant and it would destroy both nations, and the nuclear winter would crush the rest of humanity. its simple. we wouldnt use nukes likeconventional bombs, "carpet bombing everything" thats crazy. im willing to bet, that in a nuclear war, not even 30% of a nations nukes would be launched-becuz the ones that did launch did the damage, and whats left, is gone.there would be no "several nukes bombing cities" actually, it would only take 5 nukes to destroy a nation. its that scary? FIVE! thats it guys. 5 major cities disapear ina flash of light, hundreds of millions die, and the retaliations come and antother 5 or so go, and another 5 and the radiation kills us all. there will never be a nuclear war becuase of MAD so you can rest assured, i jjus thought id ramble on about that cuz it makes sense...

This sort of makes sense until you think about a government that wants to attempt to fool another government into who attacked it. We just fought two invasive international wars based on an incident that was never well investigated. Now suppose the US or some other government [Israel, European, Arab state, others] wants the US to take pre-emtive action on say China or Russia. Detonate a nuclear device and then claim it was a subversive attack by one or the other. They might do this hoping that the US and it's target will be destroyed/severely-damaged in the intervening chaos.

BINGO. You have WWIII.
.

Originally posted by imAMERICAN
i dont understand you guys, why do u bother countin how many missiles china or usa has, or what strength they are? does it matter? if one nation launches at another, the retaliation would be almost instant and it would destroy both nations, and the nuclear winter would crush the rest of humanity. its simple. we wouldnt use nukes likeconventional bombs, "carpet bombing everything" thats crazy. im willing to bet, that in a nuclear war, not even 30% of a nations nukes would be launched-becuz the ones that did launch did the damage, and whats left, is gone.there would be no "several nukes bombing cities" actually, it would only take 5 nukes to destroy a nation. its that scary? FIVE! thats it guys. 5 major cities disapear ina flash of light, hundreds of millions die, and the retaliations come and antother 5 or so go, and another 5 and the radiation kills us all. there will never be a nuclear war becuase of MAD so you can rest assured, i jjus thought id ramble on about that cuz it makes sense...

That is why I have always stated that US should not mess in affairs of Taiwan Strait and risking the end of both US and China. Taiwan was and is part of China. China will risk anything to keep it that way.

your talking about the sum of all fears screnario.... you guys have a point about the taiwon thing.. i dont think the usa is going ot risk war with china over an island, unless of course we get some UN backing this time, although i dont think china would use nuclear weapons, becuase that would ensure the destruction of itself, and the only thing i can imagine, is china shipping troops to taiwon and the usa shipping troops to taiwon, i think thats all it will be, a battle on taiwon, the usa prolly wont stoop to invading the mainland of china becuase that would escalate the situation- which is why we NEED to have atleast 2 million active troops, not 1 million... we need to maintain global presence in the event of a large war, i almost guarentee people taking advantage of a war of this kind, by launching terror atks or other conflicts that the usa cant stop becuz its troops are spread to thin-thats whats gunna lead to ww3... sorry for rant lol

Originally posted by imAMERICAN
your talking about the sum of all fears screnario.... you guys have a point about the taiwon thing.. i dont think the usa is going ot risk war with china over an island, unless of course we get some UN backing this time, although i dont think china would use nuclear weapons, becuase that would ensure the destruction of itself, and the only thing i can imagine, is china shipping troops to taiwon and the usa shipping troops to taiwon, i think thats all it will be, a battle on taiwon, the usa prolly wont stoop to invading the mainland of china becuase that would escalate the situation- which is why we NEED to have atleast 2 million active troops, not 1 million... we need to maintain global presence in the event of a large war, i almost guarentee people taking advantage of a war of this kind, by launching terror atks or other conflicts that the usa cant stop becuz its troops are spread to thin-thats whats gunna lead to ww3... sorry for rant lol

Yes but if the US just let's China stomp all over Taiwan then it'll lose its reputation as some dorky "savior" or whatever it is that Bush thinks he is.

Originally posted by Blackout
Yes but if the US just let's China stomp all over Taiwan then it'll lose its reputation as some dorky "savior" or whatever it is that Bush thinks he is.

How much credibility current US administration still has? Nil for most countries.