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Chinese Nukes Aimed at US Cities

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posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 10:57 PM
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Ultimately, I don't think China needs a carrier unless it plans to attack US shores. Reason being that they can launch their planes from their own land rather than from the sea if they're going to be attacked or attack Taiwan.




posted on Sep, 4 2004 @ 02:24 AM
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I always knew US should have done something about China
Mainly because of that regime
Those communists should be defeated



posted on Sep, 4 2004 @ 02:38 AM
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Originally posted by Harry12
Anyone who believes that carriers are obsolete knows nothing about warfare. If the last nearly 60 years of warfare has proven anything; it has proven the worth of the carrier. The biggest reason which establishes its value, America would never be a world power without it. China will never be a world power without. Airpower is king, the idea that you, the US, can have up to 1100 strike aircraft at a enemies door step. Aircraft that can drop several millions pounds of ordinace per 24 hours of operation is astounding. I need to remind you gentlemen that no American Carrier has been sunk in modern naval history, Post-WII. In fact, no American plane has been shot down in air to air combat since the Vietnam War. I know that was estraneous, but I thought I would throw it in for good measure. The fact remains that the Chinese have a lot to prove as far operational capablities are concern. In warfare, its is put- up or shut-up, and the piper always gets paid for the dance.


One - you are wrong. A US F-18 was shot down by an Iraqi Mig-25 in the opening night of Gulf War 1.

Two - The US has not been in a serious war since World War Two where the enemy had air or sea power even comparable to the US.

In Vietnam the USS Forrestal came pretty close to sinking by a very costly onboard accident. The only thing that kept the ship afloat was the sacrifice of the crew. Sailors in some compartments had to seal themselves in and burn to death. On the flight deck, bombs were going off. When shrike anti-radar missiles went off they shredded the fire hoses. Sailors had to run out and push burning planes and bombs off the aircraft deck. Many times during these runs the bombs and missiles went off when the sailors were pushing the bombs off the deck. A film about the Forrestal disaster is required viewing for naval boat camp now and basically reset safety standards for the navy. It showed how fragile carriers can be.

The USS Stark was nailed by an Exocet in 1987.

The USS Belleau Wood was sent home when it ran into a WW1-era mine in Gulf War One.

No ship has ever countered a sea-skimming missile. This is a huge area of concern, and the position of our warships is very much dependant on current diplomatic relations. If a CBG is in open water, with everyone on a war footing, it has a very strong screen of protection. However if it is caught unaware, or there is a sudden snap in relations the CBG may be caught in a vulnerable area. I can guarantee you we are very aware of the dangers of starting a war with Iran when we have two CBGs within 4 minutes sub-sonic of the Iranian coast. Note that the two CBGs in the Gulf are non-nuclear, just to be sure.

Basically, the US CBGs since WW2 have been steaming up to an enemy nation and acting as portable airstrips with little to no danger or losing the carrier. We haven't been re-fighting the Battle of Midway every year since 1942.

Victory or failure in modern naval warfare is determined in a matter of seconds or minutes. That's why the US shot down an Iranian airbus in 1988 - it didn't have time to decipher whether it was a civilian airliner or an F-14.

So basically, while a CBG is extremely strong, you can't go around completely oblivious to the dangers that face it. CBG in open water, with escorts, CAP and subs - very safe. CBG near coast against an intact, high-tech enemy - very tenuous.



posted on Sep, 4 2004 @ 04:04 AM
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Originally posted by AtheiX
I always knew US should have done something about China
Mainly because of that regime
Those communists should be defeated



Even in the 50s, when China was primitive, you guys could not defeat Chinese backed North Korea. You surely cannot defeat China today. And by 2050, China will be a superpower on all fronts.

The time to directly confront China has passed. The only option now is to engage with China peacefully.

China is catching up quickly guys. China has it's F16/F15 equivalents, the J10, and the J11/SU27/30, and it's arguable that both the J10 and J11 are in some ways superior to F16/F15. China is working on it's F22, the JXX. China has launched a man into outerspace, making it only 1 of 3 nations to do so. China also is only 1 of 5 nations that can make a military turbofan engine.



posted on Sep, 4 2004 @ 07:27 AM
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if this has been already posted then sorry for the repetition!

someone posted this either in this thread or another one ...about the bbc doing a report on the Chinese during military training where a reporter asked either a soilder or a general what they were doing....the answer was they were planning on how they would invade and attack American cities!!!

terrorism is a flash in the pan...the next big wars are either going to be mid east related due to the west trying to restructure the political landscape there (OIL?) or a power tussle between the current world power and the rising one ---CHINA.
America already consumes 80% of the worlds resources..what China going to do when its 1 billion population rises in economic status?? where are all the resources going to come from?? seeing as we only have one planet??

[edit on 4-9-2004 by TruthStrgnrThanFiction]

[edit on 4-9-2004 by TruthStrgnrThanFiction]



posted on Sep, 4 2004 @ 07:44 AM
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Originally posted by American Mad Man
Dude, what part of "THEY WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH CHINA" do you guys not get? Do you guys want to be forcing a people who hate you to live under your rule?

Ohhh well, with you Zcheng, it is not worth debating. Yur Comy government has fed you enough garbage that you will never understand that these people don't like you, and all they want is their tiny little island. China has one of the worlds largest plots of land - why can't they just be happy with that, and then if Taiwan wants to join them, so much the better.

That sums up my thought. It still strikes me that they why they would want more territory when they already have a lot (and probably not even getting the most out of what they already have either).

Still, in the event that they take the island by force (as opposed to, say, how HK was made part of China), I forsee a rather dark period where the "unpatriotic" are... "purged". I might've been young at the time, but I still remember seeing the Tiananmen square crackdown on TV only 15 years ago (which is not -that- long)...

[edit on 4-9-2004 by AxBattler]



posted on Sep, 4 2004 @ 11:24 AM
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Originally posted by AxBattler

Originally posted by American Mad Man
Dude, what part of "THEY WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH CHINA" do you guys not get? Do you guys want to be forcing a people who hate you to live under your rule?

Ohhh well, with you Zcheng, it is not worth debating. Yur Comy government has fed you enough garbage that you will never understand that these people don't like you, and all they want is their tiny little island. China has one of the worlds largest plots of land - why can't they just be happy with that, and then if Taiwan wants to join them, so much the better.

That sums up my thought. It still strikes me that they why they would want more territory when they already have a lot (and probably not even getting the most out of what they already have either).

Still, in the event that they take the island by force (as opposed to, say, how HK was made part of China), I forsee a rather dark period where the "unpatriotic" are... "purged". I might've been young at the time, but I still remember seeing the Tiananmen square crackdown on TV only 15 years ago (which is not -that- long)...

[edit on 4-9-2004 by AxBattler]


What imbecilic thinking. Why don't the USA return Florida, and Texas, California. Why don't you return the entire West coast? You guys have enough land. Why be so greedy?

If Californians, Texas, Florida all want to secede from the Union, what will your attitude be?

You will say, over my dead body!

That is the same attitude Chinese have. Tiawan has been part of China for thousands of years! Just like Hong Kong was.

Get over it dudes. China is going to reclaim it's rightful ownership of Taiwan. There's nothing you can do about it.



posted on Sep, 4 2004 @ 12:26 PM
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Korea was not a national war effort like WW2 and China had Russian backing at the time. It's often called the Forgotten War. The goal of US and UN involvement was completed.

The US already recognizes One China policy. We don't dispute that Taiwan is part of the PRC. If we did, we would not have diplomatic relations with the PRC as required.

The ROC is democratic and that's where the US interest lies, in supporting a democracy. But yes, China will not stay seperate forever, people in the ROC and PRC recognize this. The problem is to have a reunion that's amenable to both parties. At the rate things are going I think Taiwan and China will have a bloodless reunion in the medium to distant future. China's becoming a better country and at some point there simply won't be a reason to be seperate.



posted on Sep, 4 2004 @ 08:05 PM
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Originally posted by taibunsuu
Korea was not a national war effort like WW2 and China had Russian backing at the time. It's often called the Forgotten War. The goal of US and UN involvement was completed.

The US already recognizes One China policy. We don't dispute that Taiwan is part of the PRC. If we did, we would not have diplomatic relations with the PRC as required.

The ROC is democratic and that's where the US interest lies, in supporting a democracy. But yes, China will not stay seperate forever, people in the ROC and PRC recognize this. The problem is to have a reunion that's amenable to both parties. At the rate things are going I think Taiwan and China will have a bloodless reunion in the medium to distant future. China's becoming a better country and at some point there simply won't be a reason to be seperate.



You have a point there. However, if they are to seek a peaceful relationship the current leader of China (Jiang Zemin) has got to go. The arms build-up may also be a problem towards a peaceful reunion.



posted on Sep, 4 2004 @ 08:08 PM
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Originally posted by goldenboy

Originally posted by AxBattler

Originally posted by American Mad Man
Dude, what part of "THEY WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH CHINA" do you guys not get? Do you guys want to be forcing a people who hate you to live under your rule?

Ohhh well, with you Zcheng, it is not worth debating. Yur Comy government has fed you enough garbage that you will never understand that these people don't like you, and all they want is their tiny little island. China has one of the worlds largest plots of land - why can't they just be happy with that, and then if Taiwan wants to join them, so much the better.

That sums up my thought. It still strikes me that they why they would want more territory when they already have a lot (and probably not even getting the most out of what they already have either).

Still, in the event that they take the island by force (as opposed to, say, how HK was made part of China), I forsee a rather dark period where the "unpatriotic" are... "purged". I might've been young at the time, but I still remember seeing the Tiananmen square crackdown on TV only 15 years ago (which is not -that- long)...

[edit on 4-9-2004 by AxBattler]


What imbecilic thinking. Why don't the USA return Florida, and Texas, California. Why don't you return the entire West coast? You guys have enough land. Why be so greedy?

If Californians, Texas, Florida all want to secede from the Union, what will your attitude be?

You will say, over my dead body!

That is the same attitude Chinese have. Tiawan has been part of China for thousands of years! Just like Hong Kong was.

Get over it dudes. China is going to reclaim it's rightful ownership of Taiwan. There's nothing you can do about it.



I'd like to add to that. If one group splits from the big guy (without getting themselves involved in a terrible war) then all the other little guys will try to split as well. Then it just all breaks apart from there. If Cali split from the US peacefully, then Florida may end up trying to split. Following my logic here?



posted on Sep, 4 2004 @ 08:20 PM
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Originally posted by Blackout

Originally posted by taibunsuu
Korea was not a national war effort like WW2 and China had Russian backing at the time. It's often called the Forgotten War. The goal of US and UN involvement was completed.

The US already recognizes One China policy. We don't dispute that Taiwan is part of the PRC. If we did, we would not have diplomatic relations with the PRC as required.

The ROC is democratic and that's where the US interest lies, in supporting a democracy. But yes, China will not stay seperate forever, people in the ROC and PRC recognize this. The problem is to have a reunion that's amenable to both parties. At the rate things are going I think Taiwan and China will have a bloodless reunion in the medium to distant future. China's becoming a better country and at some point there simply won't be a reason to be seperate.



You have a point there. However, if they are to seek a peaceful relationship the current leader of China (Jiang Zemin) has got to go. The arms build-up may also be a problem towards a peaceful reunion.


Commie leaders always eventually die out. Except for Castro
. China seems to be becoming more democratic and capitalistic. At the current rate there will come a time when PRC and ROC are so alike there would be no reason to stay seperate.



posted on Sep, 4 2004 @ 10:24 PM
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Originally posted by taibunsuu
Commie leaders always eventually die out. Except for Castro
. China seems to be becoming more democratic and capitalistic. At the current rate there will come a time when PRC and ROC are so alike there would be no reason to stay seperate.


There will always be someone prefer Independence. Consider the head of Taiwan now, if Taiwan is peacefully unified now, the head will be called the leader of Taiwan special region, while if Independent, the head will be called the President of possible Taiwan Republic. For those considering only their own interest, it is obvious which way they like. For them, there is always reason to stay separate. I believe in short term (1-10 years), we will see which way it will result.



posted on Sep, 5 2004 @ 02:30 AM
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Well right now Taiwan enjoys higher quality of life than China and don't have to abide by Chinese policies. So basically if China becomes as advanced and free as Taiwan there will be no reason to stay seperate. China did excellent inclusion of Hong Kong, when Taiwan and China they will join. As far as the 1 - 10 year thing I don't think so, people have been saying Taiwan - China is hotspot as long as I can remember, all the way back to 1985 I heard the discussions. US recognizes One-China policy and so does most of the world and there is little chance that there will be armed conflict unless China goes absolutely nuts or Taiwan goes nuts. Why would Taiwan declare itself independent? It would bring 0 benefit economically, politically, or militarily and no countries that do business with China would recognize it.



posted on Sep, 5 2004 @ 02:33 AM
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as a Chinese , i should correct some of ur mistakes:

1st. China never ally with Russia, at least after 1990s

2nd. China do have nuclear missiles, but anyone can point out the evidence that they "point to America" ? I look thourgh the whole posts. all of them uses "would/should/could/might". anyone can point out : "Chinese nu missiles DO point to America!" ? All right, there is no one.

3rd. China have promised "Never take the lead in using nuclear weapon." We keep our word. Until the foreign army aggression first.

4th. American never worry about Chinese missiles. Unless you have a turpitude mind of aggression.

5th.China have every right to hold the nuclear weapon. you know, it's a multipolar world now, not only American is the police. Without balance, there is not gap between police and devil.



posted on Sep, 5 2004 @ 02:43 AM
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Originally posted by taibunsuu
Well right now Taiwan enjoys higher quality of life than China and don't have to abide by Chinese policies. So basically if China becomes as advanced and free as Taiwan there will be no reason to stay seperate. China did excellent inclusion of Hong Kong, when Taiwan and China they will join. As far as the 1 - 10 year thing I don't think so, people have been saying Taiwan - China is hotspot as long as I can remember, all the way back to 1985 I heard the discussions. US recognizes One-China policy and so does most of the world and there is little chance that there will be armed conflict unless China goes absolutely nuts or Taiwan goes nuts. Why would Taiwan declare itself independent? It would bring 0 benefit economically, politically, or militarily and no countries that do business with China would recognize it.

welcome to discuss this topic which i most concern to.
i've to point you havn't well read the Chinese history. so that you don't understand if the war explose, i'll be the extend of the Chinese civil war 50years before.
Unite or Seprate not only depends on benifit, you know.
Image one day , no wonder why, Alaska or Hawaii's gov say "we want to Seprate from Unite Stats". what will Bush think ? "Ok, go as you like
" ???



posted on Sep, 5 2004 @ 02:58 AM
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Originally posted by VictorWoo
as a Chinese , i should correct some of ur mistakes:

1st. China never ally with Russia, at least after 1990s

2nd. China do have nuclear missiles, but anyone can point out the evidence that they "point to America" ? I look thourgh the whole posts. all of them uses "would/should/could/might". anyone can point out : "Chinese nu missiles DO point to America!" ? All right, there is no one.

3rd. China have promised "Never take the lead in using nuclear weapon." We keep our word. Until the foreign army aggression first.

4th. American never worry about Chinese missiles. Unless you have a turpitude mind of aggression.

5th.China have every right to hold the nuclear weapon. you know, it's a multipolar world now, not only American is the police. Without balance, there is not gap between police and devil.


Some great points VictorWoo ,I cant agree more with number 1. I heard so many dooms day scenarios with Russia and China teaming up. I think there is as much chance of them attacking each other as there is of them teaming up. There has never been full trust between the two countries even during the hayday of the USSR. Sharing a land border with China can make you nervous.

I would also like to state that important trading partners hardly ever go to war. The US and China trade alot with each other.



posted on Sep, 5 2004 @ 03:01 AM
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US boy always build up more and more enemies. Any strong guys are enemies but friends ? So battlesome.
even in the most peaceful time , you never forget to fight with China ?
stupid minds.
look back the history. many countries have been puissant. China, Spain, England, Germany....etc. now turn to America ,any pride i should be ?
if China enjoys war, we can defeat the black man only-America before thousand years ago . but unfortunately, Chinese don't like war.
So, it's american turn to talk about the threaten come from China
*lol*


Originally posted by goldenboy

Originally posted by AtheiX
I always knew US should have done something about China
Mainly because of that regime
Those communists should be defeated



Even in the 50s, when China was primitive, you guys could not defeat Chinese backed North Korea. You surely cannot defeat China today. And by 2050, China will be a superpower on all fronts.

The time to directly confront China has passed. The only option now is to engage with China peacefully.

China is catching up quickly guys. China has it's F16/F15 equivalents, the J10, and the J11/SU27/30, and it's arguable that both the J10 and J11 are in some ways superior to F16/F15. China is working on it's F22, the JXX. China has launched a man into outerspace, making it only 1 of 3 nations to do so. China also is only 1 of 5 nations that can make a military turbofan engine.




posted on Sep, 5 2004 @ 03:12 AM
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thanks for the agree.
but after i read ur post , i find your tone is also "guess or speculate".
i can't give you and the whole cyber friends a clearly , officially answer :
China never ally to Russia. (after 1990s)
maybe it's not accord American logic, but it's truth, and we also have our rules.
But, there DO have some coperate in weapon. like America and the U.K
don't be worry, it's nomally in the trade society



Originally posted by ShadowXIX

Originally posted by VictorWoo
as a Chinese , i should correct some of ur mistakes:

1st. China never ally with Russia, at least after 1990s

2nd. China do have nuclear missiles, but anyone can point out the evidence that they "point to America" ? I look thourgh the whole posts. all of them uses "would/should/could/might". anyone can point out : "Chinese nu missiles DO point to America!" ? All right, there is no one.

3rd. China have promised "Never take the lead in using nuclear weapon." We keep our word. Until the foreign army aggression first.

4th. American never worry about Chinese missiles. Unless you have a turpitude mind of aggression.

5th.China have every right to hold the nuclear weapon. you know, it's a multipolar world now, not only American is the police. Without balance, there is not gap between police and devil.


Some great points VictorWoo ,I cant agree more with number 1. I heard so many dooms day scenarios with Russia and China teaming up. I think there is as much chance of them attacking each other as there is of them teaming up. There has never been full trust between the two countries even during the hayday of the USSR. Sharing a land border with China can make you nervous.

I would also like to state that important trading partners hardly ever go to war. The US and China trade alot with each other.



posted on Sep, 5 2004 @ 03:21 AM
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any American friend would like to share my mood now ?
what's the mood of facing the "future battlefield"
I can see the Taiwan Strait from the window beside THIS computer.
but, can ANYONE imagine that SEVEN floating aerodrome of foreign navy will marshal around here ?
It's the front door of our home !
i can't speak more words, under this mood.
i can smell the war. but many American in the other end of the earth can't.
but enjoying "command & counquer" game excitedly.



posted on Sep, 5 2004 @ 06:59 AM
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Originally posted by VictorWoo
any American friend would like to share my mood now ?
what's the mood of facing the "future battlefield"
I can see the Taiwan Strait from the window beside THIS computer.
but, can ANYONE imagine that SEVEN floating aerodrome of foreign navy will marshal around here ?
It's the front door of our home !
i can't speak more words, under this mood.
i can smell the war. but many American in the other end of the earth can't.
but enjoying "command & counquer" game excitedly.


I don't know if you've ever seen the movie, Indiana Jones, Raiders of the lost Ark, where Harrison Ford is in a street fight somewhere in the Middle East, when this huge Arabian guy comes up to him, yielding his sword. Indiana, being tired after fighting off several thugs that had attacked him, kind of shrugs his shoulders, lowers his head and sighs, pulls a pistol from his belt and shoots his attacker dead with one shot. This is followed by a roaring cheer from the crowd that had gathered to see the initial fight.

Do you see my analogy here?

[edit on 5/9/04 by Intelearthling]




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