reply to post by Stewie
Your beliefs and the strengths you clench to them are irrelevant. There are 6 billion people on the planet. And that's divided, extremely roughly, to
1/3 Christian, 1/3 Muslim, and 1/3 Asiatic religions. Clearly somebody is wrong. And no matter how much they clench, they probably are going to hell.
Unless everyone's wrong, and in which case, who cares about beliefs anyway? If you don't have proof, you don't have a claim. You have a belief. And
belief's are as relevant in a discussion as the Pope is in Iran.
The Military Industrial Complex, historically, has always made a nation better. In fact historically, once the nation begins to become just an
industrial complex and lose the army's support and stop caring for it, it falls. Examples include Rome, Ancient dis-unified Greece, Persia, Russia,
revolutionary England and France, Revolutionary America, pre-60s America, Ottoman Empire, Byzantium Empire, even Nazi Germany. More on that later.
Could go on. I'd say that an enlightened, educated army with ties to the industry of a nation and her militia can effectively render freedom a
constant, and the government a hostage of the people. I'd say George Washington was the best manager of such a system. he made sure his enlightened
philosophy emulated throughout the ranks. People like Alexander Hamilton, arguable America's first psychopath, were locked out of power as a direct
result of the strong unity between the Army and the enlightened industrialist. Now I know the words "beware the military industrial complex" can
ring a strong echo to the modern age, but I think that's because the 60s, in general, were a miserable failure in government, military, and industry.
You had a government overrun by cocky people who thought that because they won WW2 they were on top of the world, then you had the paranoid people who
thought Communism would kill their way of life, and then you had the democrats of the day, whom were more or less very bad people, calling from a
tradition starting in the 1870s. By the 70s and 80s it was massing into something very bad which the direct result is the government we see today.
However, historically, the military industrial complex was the best bet for the people's continued freedom and education. Ancient Rome had "the
mob" rule. In their republic era, the mob was the real power of Rome. Some knew this, and so did what the people wanted in order to gain power. And
they feared for their lives. Even into Imperial Rome, Rome feared the people. The emperor became a viceroy to serving the people. If he did not,
another man rallies the people and knocked him out. Eventually Rome decided to cut down on the army's position, and the cocky leaders began taking
what they wanted. It all gets hazy there after, but the results were the Dark ages, with the army became just a tool, rather than a force of the
people with responsibility. The idea regained power later on, and for some time that was how Italy was ruled. Families did what the people wanted, or
they were kicked out. Women and men who were with the knowledgeable people. The elites, more or less the church of the time, were worried. They were
losing the power they'd had since the Dark ages. But as times went on, the elites lost the ability to maintain power. And so they fell from grace in
many nations. Eventually it culminated in America into the revolution. Washington and his army were responsible for protecting the people's rights.
And the government answered to the people, or were at risk. Washington had to even tell the army to calm down a bit when they were's getting payed.
He really was a kind of peace keeper between the elites and the army. This was known as the Newburgh Conspiracy. Arguable the first time that the
elites and the enligtened people peacefully worked together in America for a common goal. Anyway, that system began to collapse by the time the 1900s
rolled around. And by 1960 was in full disarray. Today it continues, and to be honest, the future is quite clear on the matter. Eventually someone of
an enlightened stature is going to take back the army, and that will come around the same time that the Generals now start dieing off or retiring and
get replaced with a new generation of generals whom, as far as I can tell, are beginning to become more enlightened again. Not to mention the Army
itself is increasingly becoming such. Since the 1990s, the army has been arguable becoming more so into the same intelligence and knowing that the
continental army was. The pieces haven't quite lined up yet, but rest assured, when they do, this particular individual, or group of individuals, is
going to probably have a very revolutionary event for him to take back what was once America. Now this could become violent and a sort of civil war,
or it could be quite peaceful and imagined as tanks and US army personnel marching on Washington, burning down the federal buildings like the Federal
Reserve and what not, and telling congress to get lost, then new elections with a ban on anyone rich or an incumbent.
Now, that's all I have to say on that issue, so I'll move on.
Yes, what we are doing is Criminal. Because it's war. Like I said, war is a crime. Killing your fellow man is a crime. To say it any other way is
wrong. There's just one catch, the side that loses gets to go free, so long their soldiers didn't do as the original topic at hand was about. And
rest assured, if there is evidence, they are put on trial.
Now I don't know why you would say something so preposterous as saying wars are doing bad, and that they are criminal. As the same is true for any
war. There is no good side and no bad side in war. Just two sides of people killing with different ideas. What counts is their ideas, not their sides.
And in this particular situation, no matter how bad America has been, it's ideas are better than who we are fighting. That's all that matters. Now
what happens as a result of that depends. if you go and blatantly kill civilians for no good reason, then that's bad. because they're not shooting
at you. Arguably, if an area has lots of civilians but your enemy is there, they are unfortunately in the line of fire. And if a siege does not work,
you have to go in. Civilians WILL die, but it will not be without cause. In which case it is just sad, and there's nothing you can do about it.
Saving people by killing others pretty much is the only way to do it in these situations. And you know who's fault that is? Everyone's. Because
people just think that way. Now it's great and all that you're against that, but the fact is that nobody really wants to go to war, unless they're
brain washed. And in which case, them going to war and getting killed benefits all in the long run. Not to be sounding so flat out crude, but it's
So yea, you can continue your beliefs in peace. That's nice. But everyone wants peace. At least the sane people do. So that's not exactly an
argument. yes I know Vietnam messed people up, as has every war. But like I said, I think that has to do with the period in question, seeing as most
wars did not mess people up that much. And seeing as we pretty much walked through Vietnam in WW2 without a problem fighting the Japanese, I would go
so far as to argue that the government was just being dumb and didn't care enough. Now sorry for what happened there, but to be frank to you, I
don't care about your homo-centric "I was there so I'm right" argument standpoint. War sucks. I'd also go so far as to argue that the
normalization of violence from video games to people like me means that it's not that big of an idea for me. When I see a dead person, the honest
first thought I have is to say a prayer for them. Then I don't care, because that's a corpse. It's time is over in this world. Burn or bury it so
we don't have diseases. When I sleep, 90% of the time it's a war dream. And yes, they're disturbing. They haunt me. The faces of people being
shredded. But if it's going to happen, then it's going to happen. Nothing you can do about death. I'm not messes up from it. I just carry on, as
the British say. Or maybe I'm just born not to worry about it. First time I played paintball I never got shot until hours into the game, and it was a
headshot. I was dead and down.
But hey, we degrees.
Let's get back on topic.
here is the facts. People who do things in war that are bad, like rape, are reported and investigated. if you chose not to report it, you are doing
the world an injustice. And in this modern world, there will likely be proof if it happened.
So not every soldier is like that. Many soldiers are normal chaps, unphased by war. And arguably, as my generation enters into the age to go to war,
very likely our normalization to it will make us ready for it. But at the same time, our violent defense for the rights of man means we will not do as
this soldier, at least not commonly. In the end, my generation is a throwback, but a good one. We have the violent need to defend the rights of man,
just like the revolutionaries who founded this nation. At the same time, in as much as those revolutionaries had experience because their leaders and
fathers fought in the 1750 French Indian war, our generation has experience from paint ball, video games, etc etc. We are used to it. The combination
of the two is dangerous, as I explained above. So the next generation of American soldier will be a very good one indeed. And although one or a few
soldiers may do as the soldier here is accused of, the facts are simply. You cannot blame the many based off the few.