Shift of Earth's Magnetic North Pole Impacts Tampa Airport

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by tarifa37
Absolutely nothing to worry about read my post a couple above.

Giant Breach in Earth's Magnetic Field Discovered

Scientists stumped... but yer right nothing to worry about

Pole Shift... no magnetic shield around Earth for several days (well the Scientists don't REALLY know how long), so no shield against Cosmic radiation...

...but yer right nothing to worry about

I'm not a magnetic pole expert, however most things like this never seem to effect us ( how many scare stories have we read on ats that we never see again or just don't happen) so KEEP CALM AND CARRY ON.

so if i get a compass it's going to point what used to be north east as the true north? or is my gps going to tell that im travelling ne when im used to seeing north?

i live right on the gulf so that is west, is it now going to be south west??

Originally posted by endtimer
That's really funny. My compass is pointing straight north as usual.
Nothing amiss here. What a laugh.

Yeah what a LAUGH!!!

Compasses always point north!

So if the pole shifted, IT STILL points north, how HILARIOUS.

But Seriously.....
You need more instruments to gauge the amount it shifted. At least mark the locations on the ground or something to match up with tomorrow...

Originally posted by tarifa37

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by tarifa37
Absolutely nothing to worry about read my post a couple above.

Giant Breach in Earth's Magnetic Field Discovered

Scientists stumped... but yer right nothing to worry about

Pole Shift... no magnetic shield around Earth for several days (well the Scientists don't REALLY know how long), so no shield against Cosmic radiation...

...but yer right nothing to worry about

I'm not a magnetic pole expert, however most things like this never seem to effect us ( how many scare stories have we read on ats that we never see again or just don't happen) so KEEP CALM AND CARRY ON.

edit on 6-1-2011 by tarifa37 because: (no reason given)

This doesn't mean anything. If the poles had shifted, even 40 miles ( they didn't really say, just that it would be 40 miles a year ) We would notice it in the position of the Sun and the time differential that would take place / daylight and night shifting their usual time slots ...

no worries on my end ...

i'm quite shocked that some authority orders runways to be repainted, cause the magnetic pole is shifting.

They should better send pilots and those people ordering them to do that back into school teaching them the difference between magnetic pole and geographic pole.
Since mankind navigates ships through the oceans the stars were used to determine true north (geographic).
Therefor using the magnetic pole for navigation was just a nice thing to make it a little easier.
But every person who performs navigational tasks should be aware of the difference.

The magnetic pole is basically the result of bubbles of lava floating around beneath your feet. Due to friction and other variables there is a constant change in this sort of flow resulting in a drift of the magnetic poles.

Thats no issue at all, except that it might effect the strength of the earth's magnetic field, causing ions to deeper penetrate the atmosphere in spots where you are used to live.
According to geological studies the earth had already have a dozen of pole changes, and still hurtles around the sun with us living on it.

so you and i will live like ever, except some 'wise guy' starts changing runway designations and confusing pilots with it, since they use true north or a calculation to compensate the misleading needle.

Its called polar wander....it happens all the time. There really are not any worldwide implications....as of now. >_

I think what can help some look at this is 'magnetic declination'.

en.wikipedia.org...

Magnetic declination varies both from place to place, and with the passage of time. As a traveller cruises the east coast of the United States, for example, the declination varies from 20 degrees west (in Maine) to zero (in Florida), to 10 degrees east (in Texas), meaning a compass adjusted at the beginning of the journey would have a true north error of over 30 degrees if not adjusted for the changing declination.

In most areas, the spatial variation reflects the irregularities of the flows deep in the earth; in some areas, deposits of iron ore or magnetite in the Earth's crust may contribute strongly to the declination. Similarly, secular changes to these flows result in slow changes to the field strength and direction at the same point on the Earth.

The magnetic declination in a given area that may (most likley will) change slowly over time, possibly as little as 2-2.5 degrees every hundred years or so, depending upon how far from the magnetic poles it is. For a location closer to the pole like Ivujivik, the declination may change by 1 degree every 3 years. This may be insignificant to most travellers, but can be important if using magnetic bearings from old charts or metes (directions) in old deeds for locating places with any precision.

A magnetic compass points to magnetic north, not geographic north. Compasses of style commonly used for hiking usually include a "baseplate" marked with a bezel that includes a graduated scale of degrees along with the four cardinal directions. Most advanced / costlier compasses include a declination adjustment.

With a compass lacking an adjustable baseplate, a careful, well-practiced, compass user can analyse the combination of declination and task, and decide whether the declination is to be added or subtracted from the known direction to determine an unknown direction.

Magnetic deviation is the difference between magnetic bearings and compass bearings. Deviation varies for every compass in the same location and depends on such factors as the magnetic field of the boat, wristwatches, etc. The value will also vary depending on the orientation of the boat. Magnets and/or iron masses can be used to correct for deviation so that a particular compass will accurately give magnetic bearings. More commonly, however, a correction card will be drawn up listing errors for the compass which can then be compensated for arithmetically.

Aviation sectionals (maps / charts) and databases used for air navigation are based on True north rather than magnetic north, and the constant and significant slight changes in the actual location of magnetic north and local irregularities in the planet's magnetic field require that charts and databases be updated at least 2 times per year to reflect the current magnetic variation correction from True north. For example, as of March 2010, near San Francisco the magnetic north is about 14.3 degrees east of True north, with the difference decreasing by about 6 minutes of arc per year.

Here is a link where you can observe this magnetic declination change over time from 1590-1990.

The whole reason I became interested in this 'change' is due to when the man that built coral castle talked alot about 'magnetics' and the earths magnetic flux....I noticed when he would of built coral castle, he sat on the 'line' of the magnetic zero declination. If anyone knows the story....he once moved his 'coral castle' 10 miles and no one understood why. I believe its due to the magnetic declination changing, effecting his ability to do what he was doing. Course that is just a really loose theory.

But we can see by this image...as magnetic north changes always, this magnetic declination changes and is not a 'straight line' either.

en.wikipedia.org...:Earth_Magnetic_Field_Declination_from_1590_to_1990.gif

reply to post by nwdogg1982


Your compass always points in the same direction?? Are you sure it works or are you constantly walking in a straight line? By the way, if magnetic north were to change its direction your compass wouldn't tell you so. It would just continue to point North, wherever North happens to be. You would have to use some kind of permanenet landmark and your compass to see if North has shifted. Also magnetic North has been moving constantly and quite swiftly (on the scale of things) for a number of years now.

This is quite troubling indeed. A number of animals are affected by the earth's magnetism. If the dead birds and fish were disoriented due to a sudden shift or bending of the poles, it may have been caused by solar storms and flares. Any shifting of the poles can have dramatic consequences on weather, (see Australian floods and heavy snowfall in the UK). A complete reversal of the poles would be cataclysmic. As you all know we have also been experiencing a dramatic increase in volcanic activity over the past year as well. The truth is that I believe there are people in the know, but they are not allowing it to go out to the general public. Lets hope this is not the case.

survive2012.com...

www.ngdc.noaa.gov...

The magnetic poles are defined as the area where dip (I) is vertical. You can compute this area using magnetic field models, such as the World Magnetic Model (WMM) and the International Geomagnetic Reference Field (IGRF). You can also survey for the magnetic pole, using instruments that measure the magnetic field strength and direction. In practice, the geomagnetic field is not exactly vertical at these poles, but is vertical on oval-shaped loci traced on a daily basis, with considerable variation from one day to another, and approximately centered on the dip pole positions. Magnetic declination (D) is unreliable near the poles.

As a previous poster pointed out...we cant ever really have a 1 exact spot on our Earth that can point consistently to a 'locality' of exactly a 'magnetic north pole' for the at the 'north magnetic pole' the local is a oval shape that is observed daily.

The task of locating the principal magnetic pole by instrument is difficult for many reasons; the large area over which the dip or inclination (I) is nearly 90 degrees, the pole areas are not fixed points, but move tens to hundreds of kilometers because of daily variations and magnetic storms, and finally, the polar areas are relatively inaccessible to survey crews . Natural Resources Canada (NRCan) tracked the North Magnetic Pole, which is slowly drifting across the Canadian Arctic, by periodically carrying out magnetic surveys to reestablish the Pole's location from 1948 to 1994. An international collaboration, led by a French fundraising association, Poly-Arctique, and involving NRCan, Institut de Physique du Globe de Paris and Bureau de Recherche Geologique et Miniere, added two locations of the North Magnetic Pole in 2001 and 2007. The most recent survey determined that the Pole is moving approximately north-northwest at 55 km per year.

Many migratory animals use the geomagnetic field to orient themselves. However, the mechanism underlying this ability of animals remains unknown. Experiments show that migratory birds can sense the declination and inclination of the local geomagnetic field. Changing the polarity of the horizontal magnetic field is known to affect the hanging position of bats. Some migrating butterflies use the geomagnetic field for direction. In the ocean, spiny lobsters, dolphins, and whales are known to use geomagnetic field for directions. It is thus, possible that a reversal of geomagnetic field affect the migratory behavior of some animals. Since the chance of a reversal in the near future (in the next few hundred years) is very low, no immediate concern is required.

During the past 100 million years, the reversal rates vary considerably. Consecutive reversals were spaced 5 thousand years to 50 million years. The last time the magnetic field reversed was about 750,000 - 780,000 years ago. While we now appear to be in a period of declining magnetic field strength, we cannot state for certain if or when a magnetic reversal will occur. Based on measurements of the Earth's magnetic field taken since about 1850 some paleomagnetists estimate that the dipole moment will decay in about 1,300 years. However, the present dipole moment (a measure of how strong the magnetic field is) is actually higher than it has been for most of the last 50,000 years and the current decline could reverse at any time.

Even if Earth's magnetic field is beginning a reversal, it would still take several thousand years to complete a reversal. We expect Earth would still have a magnetic field during a reversal, but it would be weaker than normal with multiple magnetic poles. Radio communication would deteriorate, navigation by magnetic compass would be difficult and migratory animals might have problems.

As above...it states that if a reversal were to take place (for those worried about a immediate abrupt reversal)......it would take SEVERAL THOUSAND YEARS to complete a reversal. Not saying there would not be issues during such times of 'change'....but it being a slow process may be our benefit all the same to adapt.

Im NOT saying that this shows us we are going to have a reversal or are in one...NOT at all is that what Im suggesting. Im suggesting...read, learn, and see, the Earth adapts, its core effects our magnetic fields and poles, life will also adapt if such happens over time.

So far, the normal changing of the magnetic pole movements, which are common...have not shown anything 'uncommon'.

For Florida...if one looks at the last post I made...they may be changing their airport alignment due to the fact of the declination more then anything. The zero declination used to run straight through Florida...and maybe they are just tired of 'making up' for the declination. If their runway was based on a magnetic north zero declination...it would of been easy landing in Florida...all compasses around that area would not need any adjusting at all and would read magnetic north perfectly. Now, they may be seeing they have to make adjustments all the time and got too used to being in such a easy compass reading location.

Now the above, is just a loose uneducated theory of possibility and Im sure a more well educated ATSer can come along and add to this idea of mine about Florida specifically changing their runway.

Ill await for my 'lesson'

Yes the poles are always shifting for those trying to trivialize this article
however the point of this topic is not that "it has always been shifting"
the point is that the shift is accelerating.

But the NMP drifts from year to year as geophysical processes within Earth change. For more than 150 years after Ross's measurement its movement was gradual, generally less than 15 kilometers per year. But then, in the 1990s, it picked up speed in a big way, bolting north–northwest into the Arctic Ocean at more than 55 kilometers per year. If it keeps going it could pass the geographic north pole in a decade or so and carry on toward Siberia.

www.scientificamerican.com...

15KM per year vs. 55KM is nothing??

According to some recent models, plumes of less dense fluid form at the inner core boundary and subsequently rise within [a cylinder] whose central axis is the Earth’s rotation axis. Such plumes undergo a strong helical motion due to the Earth’s rapid rotation, a phenomenon also observed in laboratory experiments with water. In the core, helical plumes advect and twist the magnetic field lines, forming what scientists call "polar magnetic upwellings."

Originally posted by sir_slide
reply to post by Human_Alien

 

What are the global implications do you think? I don't mean to sound silly, but I'm in Australia, does that mean that the weather would become like canada or russia? SCARY

the weather in canada is already like australia. it's the beginning of january and the temp. is in the plus range and it has barely snowed were i live.

Originally posted by sentinel007
This is quite troubling indeed. A number of animals are affected by the earth's magnetism. If the dead birds and fish were disoriented due to a sudden shift or bending of the poles, it may have been caused by solar storms and flares. Any shifting of the poles can have dramatic consequences on weather, (see Australian floods and heavy snowfall in the UK). A complete reversal of the poles would be cataclysmic. As you all know we have also been experiencing a dramatic increase in volcanic activity over the past year as well. The truth is that I believe there are people in the know, but they are not allowing it to go out to the general public. Lets hope this is not the case.

survive2012.com...

The NOAA (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration)....which is a pretty good source being that this is their root of what they observe and do....says it would take several thousand years for a complete reversal to occur.

I understand your need to point out dramatic floods in Australia and snowfall in UK....but we can also go back and pick out many many many years where somewhere on Earth there was unusual weather going on.

If you dont like the weather on Earth...stick around, it will change

We know that mother nature is not consistent in her patterns and that many many unexpected things occur, she is not predictable. But we also know on the flip side to her unpredictably.....history, repeats itself. Can we assume there will be chaotic times on Earth again...you bet your bottom dollar. Will we see that in our life? I dont think anyone can say with certainty and we can only be smart to know that history repeats itself in a untimely way.

Don't Panic!!

Two types of polar shift, 1 Magnetic polar shift where the magnetic poles shift around a bit, its happened before and will happen again, in fact there is some evidence it has completely flipped before, no bother, apart from GPS being out by a bit and airport having to repaint a few runways everything should continue as normal.

2. Actual polar shift, where the north and south poles of the earth start to move, that would be much more worrying, well tbh they probably already do move but I mean by a significant amount in a short period of time whereby warm countries become almost polar and vice versa, That would be much more worrying and disturbing.

It turns out that, although there is some science behind this (that being that the poles wander). It is not true however that the change will happen instantaneously, instead happening over thousands if not millions of years

Pole shift debunked

There's also this site Top 10 reasons why the earth won't end in 2012. I know it says 2012, but it still deals with the polar shift/reversal theories.

Also a thread on the topic ATS: Top 10 reasons why the earth wont end in 2012

This is very interesting but I would have to agree with Paroxysm.

I'll start worrying once all airports begin closing.

anyz,good find.

This is the official Info from Tampa:

Community Noise Alert
Notice to the Tampa Bay community of South and Northwest Tampa
For immediate release – January 4, 2011
As of January 3, 2011, Tampa International Airport’s west parallel Runway 36L-
18R has been closed for renumbering and is not scheduled to reopen until
January 13, 2011. This work is associated with the Runway Re-designation
Project that will change all the existing numbers on all three runways. The west
parallel runway will be Runway 1L-19R on January 13, 2011.
With this temporary closure, all aircraft (turbojets and propeller) will be
landing on Runways 36R-18L and 9-27. If you are a South Tampa resident you
will continue to experience such aircraft noise until January 13, 2011.
Attached is a document that identifies the new runway designation. Designation
changes are a result of the gradual shift of the Earth’s magnetic north. The
Federal Aviation Administration Air Traffic Control has requested that Tampa
International Airport initiate the Runway Re-designation Project.
To accomplish this task, the Aviation Authority has closed Runway 18R-36L on
January 3rd and it will reopen on January 13th as 19R-1L.
On the 13th, Runways 18L-36R and 9-27 will close and this will impact Northwest
Tampa residents. With this temporary closure, all aircraft (turbojets and
propeller) will be landing on Runway 19R-1L. These runways will reopen
between 14 and 20 days as Runways 19L-1R and 10-28, respectively.
If you would like to join the Noise Alert Group to be notified of runway closures
that will impact normal aircraft operations at the airport, please visit
www.tampaairport.com and go to Airport Business – Noise Abatement or call the
Noise Officer at 813-870-7843.
-TPA

Source:
www.tampaairport.com...

Community Noise Alert...ahh and bye the way the damn pole is out of place - ah okey.

If more animals die the next day's we know what is comming, right?

Originally posted by VI0811
If the poles had shifted, even 40 miles ( they didn't really say, just that it would be 40 miles a year ) We would notice it in the position of the Sun and the time differential that would take place / daylight and night shifting their usual time slots ...

The movement of the magnetic poles would not affect the position of the sun or time of daylight, etc. It's just the magnetic poles shifting. The actual axis of the earth is unaffected.

Originally posted by Terrormaster
Interesting that you mentioned people having trouble with compasses. I'm not sure how accurate the electronic compasses in smart phones are supposed to be. But my compass app on my Android phone has been telling me that true north is to the west. I tried recalibrating it several times even in front of witnesses at the office at it still does the same. For the record, it USED to accurately point to the north. This shift is somewhat recent behavior.

edit on 1/5/2011 by Terrormaster because: (no reason given)

Both my brothers have had the same problems on their iphones recently, my family has prayed towards qibla or mecca in that certain direction for all their lives, and my brother suddenly started saing we been praying in the wrong direction all this time because his iphone app was pointing the wrong way, my other brother had the same problem on his iphone until he used GPS to determine that we were facing the right way all along, and this was before i read anything about these magnetic anomalies reported recently and the birds dying etc.

This happened 2 days ago for us in UK

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Human_Alien

 

Great Find!! It is extremely uncommon, and almost unheard of to redesignate a runway! Especially a major runway, because it will also change every approach specification for every airline in the world, and it has caused inconvenience to the neighborhood. It is also probably the first domino, and since Tampa did it, many other airports will now have to do it. In addition, they build the runways along the lines of the prevailing winds. If the poles shift, and if the weather patterns shift, then the runways will not be in the optimal configuration.

I think these pole shifts are accelerating, and I think it is a cyclical occurence, and somehow that ancient knowledge filtered out to us, but we ignored it.

Calm down, folks. The runway didn't move. The winds didn't move. Nothing moved except a gradual shift of the north magnetic pole. Runways have an alignment with respect to the magnetic north pole. he longest runway at Tampa is one of 2 North-South runways. When the runway was built, the magnetic course of Runway 36L was 004 degrees, slightly clockwise from due magnetic North. The deviation from true North then was 2 degrees. The FAA rounds off runway headings to the nearest 10 degrees, so it was named Runway 36L or 36-Left. The same slab of concrete going the other way has a magnetic course of 184 degrees and was named 18R or Right. As the magnetic pole slowly migrated west over the past several decades, the deviation slowly grew until it slowly reached the rounding tipping point and requiring rounding to the new nearest 10 degrees, so the new name is 1L/19R. The other runways get renamed, too. The changes to approach procedures will be almost unnoticeable. The primary precision approach for an approach from the South, like used today, will be renamed the ILS Runway 1L ILS Approach. Approach charts will need to be reprinted with the new numbers, but nothing gets moved. The approach path will be over the same houses once the runway reopens for use. Once the electronic databases for the LNAV systems are changes, the pilots won't even notice any changes except for the new name.