If you've EVER read the book of Revelations, that whore of babylon?

That sits astride the city of seven hills?

That shed the blood of the saints? The Catholic Church has shed more blood of Christians than any other religious organization EVER.

Only one city in the world is known as the city of seven hills. Rome.

This is not even close to the Church that was begun AFTER the Christ died.

In fact, it was the Catholic Church that withheld the Word of God for 1260 years.

Come to think of it, they never did anything to me, but they're fooling a lot of others. The Christ would have nothing to do with a corrupt organization such as this.

It began in corruption, and continues to this day, although the Reformation partially pulled its teeth.

Originally posted by oliveoil
Seriously, 99 % of all you posters out there seem to have beef with the catholic church. The Church Jesus Christ himself established. WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM ? The Church has always been there though out the ages always giving and supporting people in need.You cant always turn toward your family but you can always count on the Catholic church. (hypocrites)

Mods, please post this where you seem fit. Thanks OO

edit on 27-12-2010 by oliveoil because: (no reason given)

First off the Acts of the Apostles is how a church is supposed to be, plus many of the letters.

Secondly they worship idols,

Lev.26

1. [1] Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.

Rev.9

1. [20] And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

please tell me that they do not bow down to the image of a man on a cross in the church.

Plus they believe that a man has the power to forgive when forgiveness of sin comes form God who is Jesus.

They baptize babies who can not confess their acceptance of Christ.-

Originally posted by oliveoil
Seriously, 99 % of all you posters out there seem to have beef with the catholic church. The Church Jesus Christ himself established. WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM ? The Church has always been there though out the ages always giving and supporting people in need.You cant always turn toward your family but you can always count on the Catholic church. (hypocrites)

Mods, please post this where you seem fit. Thanks OO

edit on 27-12-2010 by oliveoil because: (no reason given)

I don't have a beef with the Catholic Church, they have never done anything to me, but then again they've never done anything for me, and right there is where your problem lies. I've been inside a Catholic Church once for a wedding (I was 13 maybe) once or twice for some type of sale, and maybe a couple times down in a basement for various types of meetings, that had nothing to do with the Church it'self.

The Messiah, Jesus, did NOT establish the Catholic Church. The Messiah taught that God himself is seeking people to worship him in Spirit and truth - the implication being, that God is very active in our lives, and according to Jesus himself all we need to to is turn to him and ask him for the truth and when we do we will get the promised gift of living water.

The people who make up the true body of Christ, that Paul spoke of are the people who have experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Surely you know the significance of Jesus meeting the woman at the well? He is the bridegroom after all.

It's my personal opinion, that if a person hasn't received this baptism, they have no business in teaching anything biblical.

The Catholic Church did nothing to me personally, but I have a problem with the Church's view toward women: second class.

Also, if the Church again allowed priests to marry, we would get more quality men with vocations...and maybe less molestations would occur.

I think the Church has strayed far, far away from the original Christian ethics that flourished when the Church was new.

Re Strave:

You wrote:

"The bible does not say anywhere that the earth is only 6000 years old. It only gives a genealogical record back to Adam."

That's what I said also: "According to genealogical chronology". But then the genealogical record is wrong, as the earth generally is believed to be more than 6000 years old.

Quote:

"Then the 6 "days" of creation do not say how long they are. The bible says that a day to God is like a thousand years and a thousand years is like a day."


I never mentioned anything about the length of creation per se in my post, so why do you direct this comment to me?

Quote:

" Using that to disprove the bible is doing nothing more that showing the ignorance of people who take all passed down information as 100% fact and not "studying to show themselves approved"."

My initial post is based on my direct reading of genesis. Do you mean 'ignorance' defined as people disagreeing with YOUR interpretation of a confused and selfcontradictory book? Or are you just throwing semantic dung?

As usual in a debate between 'believers' and critics, the question is about what constitutes 'facts' or evidence, and as I originally said, the 'believer' usually and eventually declare him/herself "right, because he/she is right" in a closed circle-argumentation.

I can invent any moronic religion on the spot, and argue endlessly about it in circle-argumentation. Which is exactly what catholicism (and most of the other competing christian sects) have done for 2000 years.

Not only as an excuse for the various atricities committed in the name of 'christianity', but in my personal opinion also adding the guilt of trying to zombify mankind.

Originally posted by bogomil

My initial post is based on my direct reading of genesis. Do you mean 'ignorance' defined as people disagreeing with YOUR interpretation of a confused and selfcontradictory book? Or are you just throwing semantic dung?

As usual in a debate between 'believers' and critics, the question is about what constitutes 'facts' or evidence, and as I originally said, the 'believer' usually and eventually declare him/herself "right, because he/she is right" in a closed circle-argumentation.

I can invent any moronic religion on the spot, and argue endlessly about it in circle-argumentation. Which is exactly what catholicism (and most of the other competing christian sects) have done for 2000 years.

Not only as an excuse for the various atricities committed in the name of 'christianity', but in my personal opinion also adding the guilt of trying to zombify mankind.

I think you have missed my intention with that post. All I was saying is do not use people assuming the bible says the earth is 6000 years old to discredit it when it does not say that.

Of course I am saying I am right. If I did not think so why would I believe what I do? Tho I am not demanding you believe what I believe simply asking that if you want to discredit something do so with something that it actually says as apposed to handed down information.


Edit.

and I think that if you read what I wrote I never said anywhere I knew!!!! or this is 100% fact... I said I didn't for sure... I was simply pointing out the bible does not say the earth is 6000 years old.

I mentioned the whore of Babylon being the Roman Catholic Church - Read Revelations Chapter 17, consider your secular history, the fact that Rome is the city of seven hills, the purple and scarlet, the great persecutor that had slain multitudes of the people of God, the beast that was, and is not - a secular city power and when destroyed by barbarians, rose again on the same foundations through the Papacy.

About the 1260 years. A couple of things. In Revelation Chapter 11, verse two, a corrupted Church after a long period of apostasy shall be compared with some divine standard.

The two witness in verse three is of two witnesses that shall prophesy in sackcloth - a symbol of sorrow and mourning, and that these two witnesses shall be in tribulation during the period named.

The two olive trees and two candlesticks, gave forth light. These two symbols indicate that during this period of 1260 days (in prophecy one day equals a year) God shall have two agencies, bearing divine witness, which shall give light unto men.

Once they make their testimony complete, the beast empowered by the abyss , shall kill the witnesses.

Get a Bible. You have two Testaments. The Old Testament and the New Testament. The word Testament is a word that signifies to bear WITNESS.

Their bodies shall lie for three days and a half, and yet not be buried. Though the witnesses were slain, their enemies could not get them out of sight. Of the Great City, it's used eight times in Revelation, but never used of Jerusalem. It is in contrast to the Holy City, which is a symbol of the true Church, but here is a wicked City used to symbolize a false religion or apostate church.

Three and a half days, three and a half years, 1260 days, or 1260 years, cross referencing verse three.

"The Pope's letter is the most weighty authority in the Church." Cardinal Gibbons, in Faith of Our Fathers, 93.

"Parts of the Bible are evidently unsuited to the very young or to the ignorant, and hence Clement XI condemned the proposition that the reading of the Scriptures is for all . . . In early times the Bible was read freely by lay people." Catholic Dic., 82.

In 527AD, Justinian ascended the throne of the Eastern Empire,, and healed the schism earlier begun between the Greek and Roman churches by ruling in favor of Rome. In Gibbon, Volume IV, p.528 one will find an account of the terrible persecution, inaugurated by Justinian in order to make all conform to Roman rule. His reign was a uniform, yet various scene of persecution with Churches and their congregations surrounded by Catholic soldiers, and the houses burned with the congregations in them.

It was at this period when the Catholic Church is drenched in blood in order to make the Romish power universal.

In 531 AD, Justinian decreed and enforced by arms the subjugation of the whole Church to the Roman Pope, and in 533AD, bestowed on the Pope the title of Rector Ecclesae, or Lord of the Church. (D'Augigne's Reformation, Vol.I, pg. 42. So in 533 AD, the "Man of Sin" was revealed. The Papacy was fully revealed and established. The universal claims of the Pope were sanctioned by imperial power.

During the long period from 533AD to 1793, the prophetic 1260 years, the two witnesses remained in sackcloth, and even where the Protestant Reformation began to spring forth, there was still intoleration. Puritans were still persecuted in England, Baptists in Lutheran Germany, Calvin burnt Servetus in Geneva, Quakers and Baptists were punished for their religion in the American colonies.

"War was made upon them." Near the close of the eighteenth century, the most determined attack ever known was made upon the Bible. Voltaire and Rousseau led in France, Frederick the Great in Germany, Tome Paine, Hume, Gibbon, and Bolingbroke in England, Jefferson and Paine in America. At last the culmination was reached in France, where representatives of that nation by national law abolished not only the Bible but God. They decreed that France would worship no gods by Reason and Liberty. Athiesm became the law of the land.

But with the years ending the eighteenth century and early in the nineteenth century, the witnesses came to life. The Bible is now translated into every written tongue on earth.

The city of Rome and its Papal authority?

When the Word was printed, the bitterness and sweetness were roared at by the Papal Bulls thrown out in protest, but in the end, the Two Witnesses after 1260 years were once again Testifying.

you know what the so called HOLY bible was written and rewritten and translated so many times thoughtout history to the point that no modern man even know what was organally written .

and the church it self is rotten to the core . this help the fellow man is a l smoke screen for what is really going on behind closed doors ...

Re Strave

I'm not 'assuming' anything. I'm from direct, personal information-gathering pointing out the very low value of the bible as a source of 'facts' or evidence.

Any idiot who can count or can localise a planet can verify my conclusions. I have never brought in any secondhand information from 'authoritative' sources in my posts here, neither have I said, that the bible is discredited because it itself states a 6000 year old earth/universe. It states a chronology, which is faulty, and this discredits it (you may have heard about bishop Ussher, one of the first christian smart-asses, who argumented anti-scientific on the ground of bible genealogy).

Have you nothing better to do than fabricating semantic gordic knots, around what you imagine I say?

Originally posted by ACTS 2:38


.... forgiveness of sin comes form God who is Jesus.

Huh?
If god is Jesus, then who was Jesus praying to in Matthew 6? (Lord's prayer)

God is not Jesus.
Jesus is not God.
Jesus was Jesus bar-Abbas.

Jesus Christ did not establish the Catholic church. The Catholics are not special, unique snowflakes, they're an offshoot of Christianity. Jesus didn't establish any church, Christianity is based upon his teachings.

I'm not a judgemental person, I'm just saying that you should probably put a disclaimer up there to let people know that you can always count on the Catholic church as long as you're not:

-A young boy
-poor
-Homosexual/bisexual
-Another religion (can anyone say, 'Crusades'?)
-Another denomination
-Left Handed (My aunt was forced to learn to write with her right hand back in the sixties)
-Can get time off from your job any time you want (My mother was told that my father didn't love her because he couldn't get the day off to meet with the priest, and they could not get married in the church)
-A theistic/evolutionist or a scientist (They all but threw me out of the church when I told them I believed God used science to create the universe)
-Someone who uses birth control

And a great many other things that I cannot think of/dont care to take the time to write.

Just. Really.
Stop.
Please.

Also, furthermore, additionally: It seems as though the Catholic church thinks that, just because it's an older religion, it can hate more things. Please talk to the Pope about that.
Also also: 99%? Where did you come up with this figure?

Originally posted by FarArcher
I mentioned the whore of Babylon being the Roman Catholic Church - Read Revelations Chapter 17, consider your secular history, the fact that Rome is the city of seven hills, the purple and scarlet, the great persecutor that had slain multitudes of the people of God, the beast that was, and is not - a secular city power and when destroyed by barbarians, rose again on the same foundations through the Papacy.

Rome is on 7 hills. Unfortunately, the Bible mentions mountains, not hills. Additionally, the Vatican isn't in Rome. It's in Vatican City, which is built on one hill. Lastly, there are many cities that are built on 7 hills, including Los Angeles, Tehran and Seattle.

The most common color representing the clergy of the Catholic religion is not scarlet or purple, but white. Oddly, the microsoft logo has varied blue (purple) and red (scarlet) colors (and they are headquartered in Seattle).


Eric