"I have gay friends, but..." Umm... No, you don't...

Again Choice vs Not A Choice.

reply to post by KingDoey

As i said as long as it doesn't involve me, it is cool as to what people choose to do. I would not look down on someone or be prejudice against them or expect them to have any less amount of rights as me: I just wouldn't choose to hang around with them.

Thank you for your clarification!! I do appreciate that.

You might just be surprised. As long as you are comfortable with your own sexuality, and the gay guy is comfortable with his own sexulality, then all that there is left to talk about is non-sexual stuff that the two of you enjoy in common -- and yes, there is lots of that -- so you could probably "hang around" him quite easily.

Cheers mate! I think I see some progress to this thread!

Originally posted by wayno

You might just be surprised. As long as you are comfortable with your own sexuality, and the gay guy is comfortable with his own sexuality, then all that there is left to talk about is non-sexual stuff that the two of you enjoy in common -- and yes, there is lots of that -- so you could probably "hang around" him quite easily.

Yes. My hubby worked at the same company I did - - in the warehouse. He was raised Mormon and was one of those macho anti-gay guys.

One of his jobs was to take sound equipment to an AID's support group in West Hollywood once a week. He - of course - had to stay there to bring the equipment back.

Its been 20 years now - - and he still considers this one of the most enlightening times of his life. And is forever thankful he was lucky enough to have this experience.

Ignorance is ignorance - - - and he is well aware that he might still be that Anti-Gay guy - - - if he hadn't had this "close encounter" within a gay environment.

This makes complete sense when you accept some/ love them wouldn't you want the best for them? As in having the same rights as you because basically, gay people, quote, "PEOPLE" have feelings too. They're happy, sad, and angry just like you and I. I have many gay friends and I wish they would have the same rights as me. Just because they are attracted to the same sex doesn't make them any different. People will always find excuses to discriminate. If you say "well I have gay friends I love them BUT blah blah" your a hypocrite and you aren't truly a friend. Why? Because you don't love who they are. Being gay is much as a "choice" as being straight. Grow up people, either you accept gays for who they are or you don't. Their is no in between. Its nonsense.

Some of you people on this thread need to pull your heads out of your rear end...this whole notion that being gay is 'unnatural' is a load of crap. There are over 1500 animals that exhibit homosexual behaviors. Are you saying penguins 'choose' to be gay? Most prejudice comes from ignorance. So, what i suggest is that before you post about something you know nothing about...do some research or keep your ignorant mouth shut.

reply to post by catwhoknowsplusone


I can hear him. Sticking a penis up an anus is 'normal' how?

Originally posted by daggyz
reply to post by catwhoknowsplusone

 

I can hear him. Sticking a penis up an anus is 'normal' how?

Many Heteros have anal sex.

Not all gays have anal sex.

YES! Ignorance is ignorance - - - and just really annoying.

reply to post by Stovokor


Lets see. If homosexuality was normal we cease to exist. Lets put 100 men and women on one island and 100 homeoseual men on another and visit them in 100 years. The resulkt would be both islands would be populated by men and women because the first group outgrew their island and discovered an uninhabited one nearby.
That is natural occurance. Homosexuals could not exist on their own without help but heterosexuals can.
I'd say that's is quite clear even though you might try to defend your position. Sex drive is strong and men have sex with sheep. Remember in some ancient societies, sex with animals was not considered abnormal, but we aren't there yet becuase we haven't accepted homosexuality fully.

Originally posted by daggyz
reply to post by Stovokor

 

Lets see. If homosexuality was normal we cease to exist.

Oops! I think you were actually being supportive.

There is nothing wrong with a gay person's reproductive system. Many have produced off-spring with the opposite sex.

However - - - would you want to be forced to have same sex - - for some reason - - that is not your normal and natural orientation?

I don't think you would.

reply to post by daggyz


Why is it that when unintelligent people talk about gays they jump to bestiality?? I think that is the true sign of an unnatural mind.

reply to post by daggyz

Lets see. If homosexuality was normal we cease to exist.

You have got your "If"'s discombobulated. Nobody said that it is normal for 100% of the population to be homosexual.

It i s n o r m a l for a certain percentage, between 3 and 10% of the population to be gay because that is the way its been forever. Because it is only a percentage, the population as a whole survives and thrives.

Get it??

Originally posted by wayno
reply to post by daggyz

 

Lets see. If homosexuality was normal we cease to exist.

You have got your "If"'s discombobulated. Nobody said that it is normal for 100% of the population to be homosexual.

It i s n o r m a l for a certain percentage, between 3 and 10% of the population to be gay because that is the way its been forever. Because it is only a percentage, the population as a whole survives and thrives.

Get it??

edit on 1/10/2011 by wayno because: (no reason given)

Seems more like 50% of the population are Gay these days....

With regards to earlier post I am glad you understand me. Most people think that because I am straight and choose not to associate with gay men that I am a homobphobe.

Nice to have someone actually read what you write for once.

Gay people are bad mmkay.

Look, I find it disgusting, I'm not going to lie. The question is however, does my disgust justify taking a human being's rights away? Of course not!

Pretty basic reasoning if you ask me. Don't understand why people can't just get over it.

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


I think that the big misconseption about homosexuality is that it has been viewed more like a trend instead just like a preference (like the ones who like the fat ones an thin ones) just some people dont want to be the one who takes the reins (be the masculin authority in their relations) and want to feel protected etc. Im not gay i LOVE the womans i just have gay friends that really are my friends and i understand their position... so... the greeks did it in ancient times, not because they were all gay... they just appreciated all forms of beauty with no matter of gender

Originally posted by JosephJohnson
Gay people are bad mmkay.

Look, I find it disgusting, I'm not going to lie. The question is however, does my disgust justify taking a human being's rights away? Of course not!

Pretty basic reasoning if you ask me. Don't understand why people can't just get over it.

Thank you - by the way.

I've been hanging out in forums for 10+ years - - - and have "met" many Pro Lifers that support Abortion Rights - - - because of the "Right of Individual Choice". They do not in any way support abortion - - - but they do support the Right of each individual to make that choice.

I'm not saying gay is a choice. But it falls under the same understanding of Rights.

Kudos to you - - - for understanding Equality.

Originally posted by daggyz
reply to post by Stovokor

 

Lets see. If homosexuality was normal we cease to exist. Lets put 100 men and women on one island and 100 homeoseual men on another and visit them in 100 years. The resulkt would be both islands would be populated by men and women because the first group outgrew their island and discovered an uninhabited one nearby.
That is natural occurance. Homosexuals could not exist on their own without help but heterosexuals can.
I'd say that's is quite clear even though you might try to defend your position. Sex drive is strong and men have sex with sheep. Remember in some ancient societies, sex with animals was not considered abnormal, but we aren't there yet becuase we haven't accepted homosexuality fully.

That makes no sense.
Why would you have men and women on one island, and only men on another?

Lets make it equal.

Heterosexual men and women on island 1.
Homosexual men and women on island 2.

100 years later.
Both islands still have a population.
Why?

Besides the fact regardless of sexuality, humans can be fertile, it doesn't take a penis and vagina to make babies, but sperm and an egg. Which both genders have.

On the other hand, why do humans have to procreate?
Yeah, continue life, blah blah, but why?
2 things.

1. Religion. All go to Heaven, so what's the point in creating more life? We'll all end up in the same plac.
2. No after-life. We all die anyway, so what's the point in creating life?

Y'see?

People don't "choose" their sexuality.


A combination of psychological experiences and genetics does though.

A lot of people think I'm crazy for holding this position, but I actually take the gay rights and equality position even further than just the legal context. Not a lot of people agree with me, but this is just my opinion.

It should be obvious from my earlier posts (here) in this thread that I go with the evidence that says homosexuality is not a choice. And don't get me wrong: I do feel that is a vital distinction, because it means that legally gays meet the criteria for being a protected class legally. However, I go one step further and say, hypothetically, if it were a choice (as I said, I do not believe it is) ... so what? Am I supposed to take people's right to choose anything away from them for some reason? If two adults consent to do anything together that does not harm anyone else on the planet, then as far as I'm concerned it's none of my business. As I said, I know not everyone agrees with that, and I absolutely respect and understand that.

Let me give you a personally applicable analogy (since I'm not gay and while I support equal rights actively, I can never relate to the struggle gay people face because I haven't lived it.) To me, the argument that homosexuality is permissable only because it's not a choice should (hopefully) go far enough to ensure their equal rights under the law, but personally - ethically (which I know is highly subjective) - in my opinion doesn't go far enough to ensure people's civil treatment. This is where the personally applicable, non-sexuality-related analogy comes in. It's a bit like the argument that wearing clothes that society finds aesthetically displeasing for whatever reason (as long as one isn't indecently exposing themselves, mind you) is only permissable if the person wearing them is poor or otherwise unable to procure "better/nicer" clothes. If they can afford "better/nicer" clothes, then people seem to feel entitled to ridicule them ceaselessly. Granted, they are entitled because of free speech. But for me at least, it still begs the question (since if they are allowed to judge, then I should at least be allowed to ask): Why does anything anyone does that isn't hurting anyone else matter to people? That's always been my question. "I just don't like it" or "I think it's wrong personally," doesn't seem, to me at least, like a reason to be cruel to someone. But then, everyone is different, and I have to tolerate those differences too. It just makes me sad.

Of course, now I'm stepping outside of the legal/civil side of the debate and entering into the much more highly subjective ethical/moral and emotional side. My apologies. I respect the views of those who disagree though, as always. I'm just putting the thought out there. Peace.

How can heterosexuals say they are right and homosexuals are wrong? My brother and uncle were gay and for a while I did have some homophobic tendencies, but as I've grown I realized that this is nothing new or wrong. Its just a different way of life. What if heterosexuality was viewed as taboo? I would be pissed (not because I dislike homosexuals) if I was "obligated" to follow a life that I didn't feel was right.

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


How dare you .... I have a gay friend that i have known and spent time with almost daily for the last 20 years. I am strongly opposed to gay rights, since i find it eroding to our society, and the stabilising qualities of the family unit.

My friend knows this, and we have still been very close for 20 years, and we still are, we just disagree.

Friendship does not require that you agree on things .... you can just agree to disagree and enjoy the person anyways.

In my opinion homosexuality is a disorder in the sexual function of the brain, just like pedophilia, and other similar disorders.

We do not help homosexuals by having phobias, and not by giving rigths, but by funding research to get rid of that disorder.

Logically there is no difference from being attracted to same sex, kids, animals, airplanes, carrots, tractors or anything else that is not the opposite sex .

It is an error in the sexual system of the brain.

Giving rights or punishing is both plain stupid, instead try to cure the disease.

Gay rights only help to bury the problem, define it as normal and the problem goes away ?!?

And my gay friend through 20 years, fully respect my view.

Have you - OP - even lived for 20 years ?

You are as judgemental as the worst muslim fundies.