"I have gay friends, but..." Umm... No, you don't...

reply to post by SevenBeans


And do you think those people do not deserve equal rights? 'Cause that's the crux of the matter here. If you oppose someone having their rights, you are not that person's friend. if you think you get to have a say in what rights they do get, you are not that person's friend. if you think you get to make these judgments based on nothing more than who that person happens to love, you are not that person's friend.

It's not rocket science. You are that person's enemy, plain and simple.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
And do you think those people do not deserve equal rights? 'Cause that's the crux of the matter here. If you oppose someone having their rights, you are not that person's friend.

Gay people have every right that I have.

Originally posted by SevenBeans

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
And do you think those people do not deserve equal rights? 'Cause that's the crux of the matter here. If you oppose someone having their rights, you are not that person's friend.

Gay people have every right that I have.

edit on 24-1-2011 by SevenBeans because: (no reason given)

As long as your ox isn't gored then what do you care. "They have every right you have" is a cop out. You don't want to be with a same sex partner therefore you don't feel the injustice of paying taxes and being told your can't have a legally sanctioned relationship. That gives heterosexuals special rights. We have every right you do, but the problem is we don't want to be with someone of the opposite sex. We do not get the same rights being with the consenting adult same sex partner we choose to live our life with. Get beyond this childish quip of "you have every right I have" because we don't. We love someone of the same sex and are denied benefits those who are with opposite sex partners get just for being married to someone of the opposite sex.

Your co-workers don't get benefits for their life partner while you do. You can fall in love with anyone of the opposite sex around the world and let them move here, obtain a residency visa, and work, we can't. The list goes on and on, but since you like your little quip you can't see things from our perspective and it's about justice.

Originally posted by SevenBeans

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
And do you think those people do not deserve equal rights? 'Cause that's the crux of the matter here. If you oppose someone having their rights, you are not that person's friend.

Gay people have every right that I have.

NO - they don't.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by SevenBeans

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
And do you think those people do not deserve equal rights? 'Cause that's the crux of the matter here. If you oppose someone having their rights, you are not that person's friend.

Gay people have every right that I have.

NO - they don't.

I need your gift of simplicity Annee. Verbosity can be a curse.

Thank you for saying in three words what took me two paragraphs.

I'm not personally gay, and don't really have that many gay friends but I completely agree with you. The gay community should have equal rights, it's always been a no-brainer for me and I'm confused as to why it's caused so much controversy amongst people.

Peace

Originally posted by Serenity08

Originally posted by Annee

NO - they don't.

I need your gift of simplicity Annee. Verbosity can be a curse.

Thank you for saying in three words what took me two paragraphs.

Thank you

But - - we really need both. Your post was excellent.

Originally posted by Serenity08
as your ox isn't gored then what do you care. "They have every right you have" is a cop out. You don't want to be with a same sex partner therefore you don't feel the injustice of paying taxes and being told your can't have a legally sanctioned relationship. That gives heterosexuals special rights.

I could just as easily scream discrimination... why is it that the government imposes conditions upon my religious union and relationship against my will, when it doesn't do the same to gay relationships?

I don't of course because that would be retarded - the government treats different circumstances differently, they do not treat individuals differently based on sexual orientation. You can say they do all you want, it will never make it true.

Originally posted by Annee
I need your gift of simplicity Annee. Verbosity can be a curse.

Thank you for saying in three words what took me two paragraphs.

Yes when you're saying something that isn't true, keeping it simple can help (don't complicate it by actually trying to demonstrate that it's true).

Originally posted by SevenBeans

I could just as easily scream discrimination... why is it that the government imposes conditions upon my religious union and relationship against my will, when it doesn't do the same to gay relationships?

I don't of course because that would be retarded - the government treats different circumstances differently, they do not treat individuals differently based on sexual orientation. You can say they do all you want, it will never make it true.

The only difference in the circumstances is whom one wants to be married to or have a civil union. It is discrimination. Again, you are not the one being discriminated against. Thanks for proving my point regarding not caring. You can't see what most people plainly do see, and that is lack of justice for gays in many aspects that heterosexuals take for granted.

Originally posted by SevenBeans
Yes when you're saying something that isn't true, keeping it simple can help (don't complicate it by actually trying to demonstrate that it's true).

Oh yeah yeah - - the vapid lame position that gays can marry the opposite sex - - therefore all is equal.

Stupid.

Originally posted by Serenity08
The only difference in the circumstances is whom one wants to be married to or have a civil union. It is discrimination. Again, you are not the one being discriminated against. Thanks for proving my point regarding not caring. You can't see what most people plainly do see, and that is lack of justice for gays in many aspects that heterosexuals take for granted.

As I said before, if it's discrimination than I'm being "discriminated against" just as much as gay people.

The criteria for what marraiges will be legally recognized are very simple and they apply to everyone (regardless of your sexual orientation). Keep saying otherwise, you'll be wrong every time.

Originally posted by Annee
Oh yeah yeah - - the vapid lame position that gays can marry the opposite sex - - therefore all is equal.

Stupid.

What's stupid is that you seem to think the government has to treat different circumstances the same, or else it's discrimination. They don't. They treat different circumstances and types of relationships differently all the time. They treat corporations differently than limited liability partnerships differently than political action committees, they treat parents differently than uncles, home owners differently than renters, girlfriends and boyfriends differently than spouses, spouses differently than roomates etc. etc. etc.

Rights apply to individuals. Gay people have every right that I have.

Originally posted by SevenBeans

Originally posted by Annee
Oh yeah yeah - - the vapid lame position that gays can marry the opposite sex - - therefore all is equal.

Stupid.

What's stupid is that you seem to think the government has to treat different circumstances the same, or else it's discrimination. They don't. They treat different circumstances and types of relationships differently all the time. They treat corporations differently than limited liability partnerships differently than political action committees, they treat parents differently than uncles, home owners differently than renters, girlfriends and boyfriends differently than spouses, spouses differently than roomates etc. etc. etc.

Rights apply to individuals. Gay people have every right that I have.

edit on 26-1-2011 by SevenBeans because: (no reason given)

With your logic, blacks had the same rights you did back in the 1950's. They could drink at their fountains and you could drink at yours. No discrimination. Inequality and injustice breeds anger and contempt. I just wonder why it matters to you if I have the same benefits you have if I am with a same sex partner. How does my situation affect you? It doesn't. I won't engage you in anymore discussion if all you are going to say is we have the same rights, because we don't.

I love how this thread gets 64 pages.

And gays actualy don't seem to get why gays are what they are nowadays.

For one, you don't have to *SNIP* a guy to be gay, and actualy, theres no such thing as being gay.

Top reasons why people get confused:

1. Abuse
2. Hightend emotional understanding or love for eachother
3. Looks (yes you can get aroused by good looks even if your straight. Been there and im NOT gay)
4. Social pressure.
5. Lack of information in crucial stages of childhood and parents who think it's sweet when boys give eachother a kiss.

All these points will show you that it is a choice to be like this, wich begins @ parenthood. Look it up and research.

None of these points show that you where born different, nor does it say you have to have sex with the same gender.

It does say that you have the AMAZING ability to feel what others feel and that you can love the same sex.

That doesn't mean you need to suck a guys johnsen. And this counts for girls too! (being lesbian that is)

Now, the discussion about equal rights is void. WE ARE ALL MEN & WOMEN IN THE END.




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Originally posted by Serenity08
With your logic, blacks had the same rights you did back in the 1950's. They could drink at their fountains and you could drink at yours. No discrimination.

Not analogous at all. You can "drink at the same fountain" if you want, you just don't want to.

Originally posted by Serenity08
I won't engage you in anymore discussion if all you are going to say is we have the same rights, because we don't.

Rights apply to individuals not circumstances. As individuals gay people have every single right that I have. Now, I think I'll go scream that I'm being discriminated against because the government won't treat my business like a corporation (even though it isn't a corporation and I don't want a corporation).

Originally posted by SevenBeans
Rights apply to individuals. Gay people have every right that I have.

NO! They Don't

Originally posted by PureET
All these points will show you that it is a choice to be like this, wich begins @ parenthood. Look it up and research.

Only the ignorant and digging up ancient data or data from some pro religion sight still accepts homosexual orientation as choice.

Yes - there are those who fall in the "middle of the scale" who can swing either way and be affected by environment/parenting -- they are called "Bi".

Originally posted by Annee

NO! They Don't

I don't think you even understand the concept of rights.

The government could stop recognizing my marraige tomorrow if they wanted to and instead only apply special legal rights and obligations to couples who are living together, or only to couples with children etc. etc. They can treat different circumstances differently and they do so all the time. Rights apply to individuals, not circumstances.

It would be quite retarded if the government had to treat different circumstances the same.

Originally posted by Annee
Only the ignorant and digging up ancient data or data from some pro religion sight still accepts homosexual orientation as choice.

Yes - there are those who fall in the "middle of the scale" who can swing either way and be affected by environment/parenting -- they are called "Bi".

I don't think it's a choice either, but sexual orientation can change.