"I have gay friends, but..." Umm... No, you don't...

Originally posted by Resurrectio

Dr. Jenny and her colleagues reviewed 269 medical records of Denver-area children who were sexually abused by adults. Of 50 male children, 37 (74%) were molested by men who had been in a heterosexual relationship with the child’s relative. Three were molested by women, five were molested by both parents, and three others were molested by non-relatives. Only one perpetrator could be identified as being possibly homosexual in his adult behavior.23

Not a good souce of concluded information.

Denver Colorado. Survived the depression with the help of various clergy feeding the poor in time of need. The population boomed thereafter. A democratic state that involves alot of tourism. The gay population of the metro is less than 6% of the total population.

Lets do the math though...

50 male children. 50 boys...

Perps:
37 boyfriends
5 fathers
3 unknowns
1 gay

Now only 3 were women, so... that means that all of the people that molested these children (why only 50? what happen to the other part of the 269 documented cases) were all men, save for the 3 women. Isnt the term gay generaly used for male on male interactions? Only the one admited to possibly being gay. But you still have 47 men who still had encounters with the same gender. Why wasnt the female victims included?

"In 1992, alarmed over claims made during a campaign for an anti-gay state constitutional amendment in Colorado, two physicians reviewed every case of suspected child molestation evaluated at Children's Hospital in Denver over a one-year period. Of the 269 cases determined to involve molestation by an adult, only two of the perpetrators could be identified as gay or lesbian. The researchers concluded that the risk of child sexual abuse by an identifiably gay or lesbian person was between zero and 3.1%, and that the risk of such abuse by the heterosexual partner of a relative was over 100 times greater.[8]"
Source(s):
www.robincmiller.com...

Where the physicians gay? Why were they alarmed? What was their reason for finding interest in this? Politicaly motivated? Socialy motivated? Personaly motivated?

I keep seeing "heterosexual" but as above, how can you be a hetero and have encounters with the same sex? Gender is not Male Female Child, its male and female.

3% does have something in common with 6%. They're both really small numbers. Im sure, since these "controled" experiments were done in one place, that they should hold up against all other cities, where gay populations are 3x larger... Not likely. Demographics change so much across the US, you would need to examine similar information in other places.

I can gather only few things out of that information:

people who molest children are sick induviduals. the gay population in denver is small. you're still labled as a heterosexual even though you engage in homosexual activities. Anyone can molest children, including people with gay tendancies.


Please tell me if I'm reading your information wrong.

reply to post by DrChuck


Well said.

The point is to accept what we cannot accept. Eventually we all meet a stalemate in the middle. If that stalemate stops us from being friends, then the world is in dire straits. We would seclude ourselves into oblivion.

My athiest friends probably want to pull me away from my beliefs because they may feel it hinders me.

My christian friends probably feel sorry for me because I dont goto church or dont want to stop seeing that "everything really isnt alright".

My gay friends probably feel that i'm not flamboyant enough.

If these people were not my true friends, then they would be more of a hippocrit than I.

Originally posted by theRhenn
reply to post by DrChuck

 

The point is to accept what we cannot accept.

Thank you! This was what I was going for! Medical books have corrupted my brain, everything seems to come out unnecessarily complicated.

Sexual orientation is such a non-issue, it has no bearing on friendships, unless that friendship is defined by it. And if it is, it is not a friendship. And whether I disagree or disapprove of it, what does it matter? I'm not going to think any less of a person for something as stupid as sexual orientation.

reply to post by DrChuck

Sexual orientation is such a non-issue, it has no bearing on friendships, unless that friendship is defined by it.

If it is such a non-issue - - why do you have a problem accepting it as normal and natural.

You keep using the word "define". I do not define someone by their sexual orientation. That would set them apart.

I fully accept and acknowledge their God given inherent birth right.

I realize there is a fine line here - - but I still see a line.

I do appreciate you accepting diversity in your friendships - don't think I don't

“A man is known by the company he keeps”

Of course I dont have gay friends. I mean... what do we really have in common? Pretty much nothing. I had friends that revealed themselves as gay later in life, but usually gay ppl tend to get away from the "old circle" when they find out their new treat. Why do they do that? I don't know... Maybe because we dont have anything in common anymore that can hold the relationship together, they enter their new "sphere" and thats ok with me - my girlfriend on the other hand, has gay friends (males, not a single female), but then again, they have lots in common.

So, no... I dont have gay friends nor I have to pretend myself like I'm so "polished" or "politically correct" that I have the need to have (or say I have) gay friends just to follow the trend of "so cool and open minded with my coffee in starbucks with my iphone and wooooo" that I actually need to have a gay friend just to pretend that I'm "hip". Well I'm not. (coffee at starbucks sucks and I hate iphones)

I dont have black friends either btw. But I do know gay ppl and black ppl... but still they're not on "friendship status", does that make me a bad person? Perhaps for some... but again, I feel no need of being "accepted"

On the other hand I dont give a damn either... but hey, at least I'm honest and people know what to expect. I'm everything but "politically correct" or a "trend follower".

If the trend was to burn gay people every thursday in the local park, most of you would never have a gay friend. You'd prolly be the first to chant "burn burn burn" or you would hide your gay friends or acquaintances, pretty much like having jew friends in nazi germany - self preservation. Coward but I understand it.

It all comes down to the need of feeling accepted by society and feeling like you're part of it by whatever "social and political correctness" it imposes. Well like I said I have no such need... and a billion flies can be wrong.

reply to post by FraternitasSaturni


I dunno - could you throw any more stereotype analogize in there?

It makes one wonder about your independent thinking.

reply to post by Annee


You are free to question whatever you like mate, the thing is, I dont really care

cheers

Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni
reply to post by Annee

 

You are free to question whatever you like mate, the thing is, I dont really care

cheers

I don't care - - wasn't any reflection on me.

I only observed your stereotype analogies. I wasn't the one trying to make a point.

Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni
Of course I dont have gay friends. I mean... what do we really have in common? Pretty much nothing. I had friends that revealed themselves as gay later in life, but usually gay ppl tend to get away from the "old circle" when they find out their new treat. Why do they do that? I don't know... Maybe because we dont have anything in common anymore that can hold the relationship together, they enter their new "sphere" and thats ok with me - my girlfriend on the other hand, has gay friends (males, not a single female), but then again, they have lots in common.

You are the same as me mate, I have no Gay friends, nor do I want any Gay friends. One of the lads in our group came out last year and does not hang around with us anymore-not because we don't want him to but because he has other interests to us now. When he was with us he said it was like living a lie. Fairplay to him for feeling like he can be himself now, but I have nothing in common with him and as such we no longer speak.

My misses also has many gay friends (just like yours lol). She is very very pro gay (what women isnt), which annoys me sometimes. She tried to get me to go to a gay bar with her but i declined as I have no purpose to be in an establishment like that.

As with many people on here she thinks I am homophobic. I am not I just do not have any reason to be mates with or be in gay orientated environments. Makes me laugh that straight men these days cannot just be left in peace! Always being told to accept gays and see them as equal.

Always being told to accept gays and see them as equal.

We are equal so I don't care if you say we are. I just want the same rights enjoyed by the non-gay community. I think that is what all my gay friends want.

reply to post by Serenity08


Same rights? Which are...? Cause seriously, you have a lot more "rights" than me mate... plus you even parade a few times a year with your gay pride and crap - you even have a flag!... unfortunately I never paraded my heterosexual pride (dont have a flag either)! Must be the same reason I cant really parade "white pride" either (but I'm sure you could find a flag to label me right?... )

The world is completely messed up when you really cant be what you really are. Society is faster to accept you as gay, than to accept me as a "person that disagrees with your sexual deviations". It even forces me to accept you under the threat of being label with every nonsense you can think of.

Buts thats ok, I'm used to double standards - you see its the same as the "white pride". Black pride is accepted, but if you mention "white pride" people come with that argument "how can you be proud of something you didnt accomplish by yourself? You did nothing to be white, so you can't be PROUD of it - its just stupid"... ok, Thats fine by me... but then start to attack black pride the same way.

So, to follow the path of equality you also have to forbid "black colleges" and "black bars" and "black clubs"... cause if I ever dare to create a "white college" or a "white bar" or a "white club" might as well write "white supremacist" on my forehead, cause the list of labels would be endless.

If theres anyone here promoting equality here its me... I give you the right of being gay or "pro gay", but I also demand the right to be against it.

reply to post by DrChuck

With all of this between us why must I "like" or "agree" with his homosexuality to be his friend?

With all of that between you, how can you not agree with him being gay? I've asked this a million times already in this thread and I just don't get what guys like you mean when you use words like "disagree".

I have no idea what you are getting at. You seem to accept your friend in all ways and yet you persist with the "disagree" and "don't like" stuff. It just doesn't add up -- its like an oxi-moron or something.

reply to post by DrChuck

... If I didn't accept another of my friends belligerent behavior, I wouldn't be his friend either. I don't like it, but I understand its a part of him. And I don't need to like it.

Like so many others on this thread you seem to gloss over the most glaring point of choice.

There is some possibility that your belligerent friend might one day see the light and change his behaviour.. You are fully within reason to question his behaviour because it is changeable, and because it is also harmful, it should be changed.

There isn't a chance in hell that your gay friend could ever stop being interested in guys. There is no reason for him to do so because it does not harm him or anyone else. In this scenario you do not have a right to judge him.

Originally posted by KingDoey
Makes me laugh that straight men these days cannot just be left in peace! Always being told to accept gays and see them as equal.

Being told to accept people?!?!
Say it aint so!
Being told to see people as equal?!?!?
What the hell?

Start a parade, I will help you organize. There is no good reason any straight man should ever have to accept anyone or see them as equal.

reply to post by FraternitasSaturni


You are at least more honest than the rest who claim to have so many gay friends in spite of the fact that they don't like or agree with homosexuality.

I can rest easy with your point of view. In some ways, it is closer to my own. I don't seek friends for the status or to play the numbers game. I am content with having relatively few real friends -- ones I don't have to pussy foot around with so as to not hurt their feelings.

Since not one of the "don't like" and "disagree" crowd seems capable of explaining themselves I am going to take a stab at it myself.

I can understand how just thinking of gay sex could stir up really nasty feelings in a straight person. I can actually remember having the very same reaction when I was young because I had never heard anything about homosexuality other than the "evil sicko" kind of comment. So I can relate. To have that kind of reaction was programmed into me by the society around me at the time. Since times have changed and there is so much more accurate information out there, I am somewhat surprised that the negative kind of "programming" still goes on.

There is nothing worse than having someone hit on you that you don't like or care for. That is revolting, at least for me. Sex is something reserved for the very few in my book. I know that makes me not "normal" in terms of how most men are, but hey, that is just me.

Sex is something to do; not talk about. Talking about it can get creepy for me really easy -- doesn't matter whether its gay or straight sex -- please spare me the details.

Now if any of this strikes a chord with you guys, great. I hope it does. These are simple things to understand and "agreement" has nothing to do with it.

Originally posted by wayno
I am content with having relatively few real friends -- ones I don't have to pussy foot around with so as to not hurt their feelings.

Exactly! I have only a few friends. There is not a gay person in our group at this time.

Some make it sound like I need to go out and "round up one" - - so I can be PC. Ridiculous.

But - if there was one (or more) - and he/she brought his/her boyfriend/girlfriend to our B-B-Q - - - they would not be "special" or different - - they would just be who they are.

Originally posted by Serenity08

Always being told to accept gays and see them as equal.

We are equal so I don't care if you say we are. I just want the same rights enjoyed by the non-gay community. I think that is what all my gay friends want.

I never said I didn't accept gays,I do. You do what you want as long as it doesn't involve me, i don't agree with being gay but that is my PERSONAL opinion. I do things that I am sure you wouldn't want to be involved in but I don't thrust them in your face.

That is my point, you are accepted. You have MORE rights than a straight man. If I call you a bender you could go to the old bill and get me done for homophobic behavior. If you call me a breeder and I went to the police they would laugh in my face.

I, like many straight men, do not have a problem with gays, I just have a problem with the whole gay rights thing being constantly rammed down my throat and being told to accept you for who you are. You are gay, i don't care. Go out and enjoy doing your thing. Its cool. Just stop telling me I have to accept you, when i already do!

reply to post by KingDoey


Near the beginning of your post you said:

i don't agree with being gay but that is my PERSONAL opinion

Near the end you said:

Just stop telling me I have to accept you, when i already do!

You've said two different things just lines apart! If you are simply implying you are not gay then just say so. If that is the case then when you say you don't "agree" with it make sure you specify you mean "for yourself". Nobody would have an issue with that.

Time and time again however, you guys say you don't agree with it and leave it at that as if it applied to anyone and everyone, but I am guessing you probably mean just for yourself. This kind of thing is why the rest of us stay confused about what you are actually saying.

Your straight. So what? Who cares? I didn't think that was an issue here?
I am getting tired of going in circles. I think I will join those who have given up trying to understand.

reply to post by wayno


No if you read it properly I said I personally am AGAINST the act of being a homosexual man.

Last time i checked when someone refers to themselves a 'I' they mean themselves singularly. If i said 'we' that would be plurally i.e a group of people. By use of the word 'I' i am refer to my own oppinion. Is it really that hard?

However I ACCEPT that we live in modern times and that there are gay men. Just because i don't agree with something, it doesn't mean it doesnt happen. It happens and i accept that it is a part of modern society.As i said as long as it doesn't involve me, it is cool as to what people choose to do. I would not look down on someone or be prejudice against them or expect them to have any less amount of rights as me: I just wouldn't choose to hang around with them.

Another perspective for you if you still don't understand.

You may not agree with recreational drug use, however it still happens everyday in the world. There is nothing you can do so you accept it and choose to distance yourself from it because it does not interest you.