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Have These Chemtrail Formations Been Appearing In Your City Lately?

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posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 10:04 AM
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reply to post by dplum517
 


Your problem, dplum (along with all the other "chemtrail believers") is, there are thousands and thousands of people who know, who follow, who track the production history of airplanes...not because it's their "job", but because they are NERDS. Aviation nerds. Or, less offensive terms, perhaps..."enthusiasts" and "hobbyists".

JUST for the B-757: www.airfleets.net...

Knock yourself out, as you study any number of sources, to find errors or "gaps" or "missing" airplanes. Ask anyone....what you have been "told" by "chemtrail believers" is crap.....




posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by dplum517
 


Your problem, dplum (along with all the other "chemtrail believers") is, there are thousands and thousands of people who know, who follow, who track the production history of airplanes...not because it's their "job", but because they are NERDS. Aviation nerds. Or, less offensive terms, perhaps..."enthusiasts" and "hobbyists".

JUST for the B-757: www.airfleets.net...

Knock yourself out, as you study any number of sources, to find errors or "gaps" or "missing" airplanes. Ask anyone....what you have been "told" by "chemtrail believers" is crap.....


LOL. That site along with the info means NOTHING. That is one type of aircraft. And, again, the government has private contracts with boeing and does not have to reveal anything. They especially don't have to put it on some website. Not to mention boeing makes aircraft for the goernment that is kept hidden for a long time.
Once again the disinfo agents have proved diddly squat.



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 11:44 AM
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Originally posted by dplum517


LOL. That site along with the info means NOTHING. That is one type of aircraft. And, again, the government has private contracts with boeing and does not have to reveal anything. They especially don't have to put it on some website. Not to mention boeing makes aircraft for the goernment that is kept hidden for a long time.
Once again the disinfo agents have proved diddly squat.


Okay, I will bite. Show us these secret aircraft that Boeing builds, give us some evidence or proof. Not speculation, not your feelings, but something concrete.

Boeings production orders are certainly not secret, and the planes go outside after completion. Any of these planes can be photographed, and are. But if you know of something secret and you have some kind of inside info about secret boeing transport planes, we are all ears.



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 11:59 AM
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reply to post by firepilot
 


You are one naive little puppy. Our Congress has passed Bills that allow contractors such as Boeing to carry out orders on behalf of our government in complete secrecy and off the books.
So no, I don't have a list of every plane they have made because they do NOT have to disclose that, you do NOT have a list of every plane they have made either, so get off your high horse and use what little logic you have.



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 12:07 PM
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Originally posted by dplum517
reply to post by firepilot
 


You are one naive little puppy. Our Congress has passed Bills that allow contractors such as Boeing to carry out orders on behalf of our government in complete secrecy and off the books.
So no, I don't have a list of every plane they have made because they do NOT have to disclose that, you do NOT have a list of every plane they have made either, so get off your high horse and use what little logic you have.


ummm so where do they hide these secret transport or airliner aircraft? Are you saying Boeing has a secret factory? And where are these secret planes then now? If they were built, they have to exist. So where are they?

All you have to offer is more unsubstantiated allegations, and zero evidence. And its a complete cop out to just through the secrecy flag up as an excuse to have zero evidence. You didnt even know the 757 was not even being produced anymore.

Boeing does not build every bit of the plane, they subcontract out a lot of it. So even if you think Boeing is lying to everyone, well then all of their subcontractors are also. But then again you have no evidence for any of this anyways.


edit on 21-12-2010 by firepilot because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 12:16 PM
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reply to post by firepilot
 


Your argument is petty. I am not referring to only Boeing. Of course they have a "factory" that is off limits to the public. They did compete against Lockheed in the x-plane contest for the government. That small example right there shows clearly that they keep stuff under wraps.
You are saying one of the largest companies on the planet has no need to keep things private or secret. Gimme a break man.
Also, I never insinuated that they still made 757's. What did that have to do with anything anyway? Are you just trying to boost your ego with the little facts that you have?



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 02:13 PM
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This debate isn't really going anywhere. We all know contrails exist and are real.
But Chemtrails are also real. Simply google "Tropospheric Aerosol Program" and you will find some government sites. The DOE has "feild sites" throughout the world where it does tests.

This is just the tip of the iceberg.

asp.labworks.org...



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by dplum517
reply to post by firepilot
 


Your argument is petty. I am not referring to only Boeing. Of course they have a "factory" that is off limits to the public. They did compete against Lockheed in the x-plane contest for the government. That small example right there shows clearly that they keep stuff under wraps.
You are saying one of the largest companies on the planet has no need to keep things private or secret. Gimme a break man.
Also, I never insinuated that they still made 757's. What did that have to do with anything anyway? Are you just trying to boost your ego with the little facts that you have?


No, you cant change the goalposts, yes they all have classified projects, but that is not the same as some secret factory for making secret airliners, and thats what you were referring to. You can not just change that to talking about other things

And no its not at a secret place, the factory is located at an airport in Seattle, and all the aircraft go outside when coming off the assembly line, and people photograph them parked outside.. Its at an airport anyone can fly to, not some secret facility.

If you have some major story that somehow AvWeek and Flightglobal have missed out on with secret Boeings, well go sell them your information. We do know how many B-52s were built, same with KC-135s and how many E-3 AWACS along with the E-6A TACAMO too. And we know how many B-2s Northrup built and how many B-1Bs Rockwell built too. None of this is secret, and no, there are no secret airliners either

edit on 21-12-2010 by firepilot because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-12-2010 by firepilot because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 02:49 PM
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In decades, I've never seen a chemtrail. Not even a picture of one. But then, no-one has ever explained why - if they exist - chemtrails would be visible anyway?

Why go to all the trouble to spray something and then make it look and behave exactly like frozen crystals of deadly dihydrogen monoxide? The stuff scientists have been studying for decades.
edit on 21-12-2010 by Essan because: edit



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 03:00 PM
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reply to post by firepilot
 


After you are done reading on the DOE link I posted here is just a tad more of the iceberg.

www.youtube.com...



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 03:45 PM
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reply to post by dplum517
 


You are more than laughable. "Tropospheric Aerosol Research" does NOT mean things being sprayed. Aerosol does not mean sprayed. It means things small enough to be in the atmosphere that are not a gas. Smoke from a forest fire is an aerosol. So is volcanic ash, exhaust from any engine, the cloud of dust when you drive down a dirt road, even salt from waves crashing. The salt is probably the largest contributor given the overall size of the oceans; the largest earthen source is the Sahara desert. The largest anthropogenic source is the burning of the rain forest in Brazil. Contrails provide a very small percentage of the aerosols in the atmosphere.
Aerosols are tracked, by size and type, daily. Here's the link:
Aerosol Looper
See all the yellow and green? Dust as aerosol. All the blues is smoke as aerosol. Sulfites (usually industry) are the orange and pink.

So, you don't answer questions, you don't understand how cirrusform clouds relate to contrails, and you don't know the basic definition of an aerosol enough to read a layman's version of a study on the things.

What DO you know about anything related to the subject? Stuff you learned at "chemtrail" websites and YouTube videos? How independent was your study? What resources did you use to confirm for you that "chemtrails" are a reality off of YouTube, "chem" sites and personal observation of things you don't understand? Please tell us so we can study them, too. I would love to read them for myself.



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 03:55 PM
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Originally posted by stars15k
reply to post by dplum517
 


You are more than laughable. "Tropospheric Aerosol Research" does NOT mean things being sprayed. Aerosol does not mean sprayed. It means things small enough to be in the atmosphere that are not a gas. Smoke from a forest fire is an aerosol. So is volcanic ash, exhaust from any engine, the cloud of dust when you drive down a dirt road, even salt from waves crashing. The salt is probably the largest contributor given the overall size of the oceans; the largest earthen source is the Sahara desert. The largest anthropogenic source is the burning of the rain forest in Brazil. Contrails provide a very small percentage of the aerosols in the atmosphere.
Aerosols are tracked, by size and type, daily. Here's the link:
Aerosol Looper
See all the yellow and green? Dust as aerosol. All the blues is smoke as aerosol. Sulfites (usually industry) are the orange and pink.

So, you don't answer questions, you don't understand how cirrusform clouds relate to contrails, and you don't know the basic definition of an aerosol enough to read a layman's version of a study on the things.

What DO you know about anything related to the subject? Stuff you learned at "chemtrail" websites and YouTube videos? How independent was your study? What resources did you use to confirm for you that "chemtrails" are a reality off of YouTube, "chem" sites and personal observation of things you don't understand? Please tell us so we can study them, too. I would love to read them for myself.


I have shared, YOU and others are obviously too ignorant too read anything about it. I don't have to prove anything to your sorry ass. You obviously would not be a good innovator or scientist because all these things are just crazy, and who would think of something like that. Well, alot of people do and have. There are patents and plenty of supporting evidence that shows not everything in the sky is a "contrail."
You have not read a damn thing about the above research and how they specify instruments used in airplanes emitting these aerosols.
I never said smoke and other such stuff is not aerosol. In the context of chemtrails it is indeed proper to use the term "aerosol."

Sorry buddy, but you are the one who is laughable.



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 04:00 PM
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Originally posted by dplum517
reply to post by firepilot
 


After you are done reading on the DOE link I posted here is just a tad more of the iceberg.

www.youtube.com...


What does a woman dressed like an angel have to do with "chemtrails"? The first pictures are clouds, natural clouds. The plane shown is outfitted to test for aerosols in the atmosphere. The nozzles point forward to collect, not backward to spray. It's the type of plane "chemtrailers" need to get a meaningful test of a trail, not something spraying something. The round nozzle does spray something....water. It's used to spray water on planes flying behind it to test for deicing of planes in flight. The pictures of the interior of a commercial jet with all the jugs and barrels is testing the plane for weight distribution. That's why there are still seats in the plane, as well as overhead compartments. Do you see any gear on the people doing the testing? No, because there was nothing more toxic than water contained in a closed system. Don't you think if they were full of toxic "chem" they would at least have masks on? Don't you think?
This is proof to you? You don't even research what you see, you just hear "chemtrails" and lap it up. Many times debunkers are told they are blind followers and "sheeple", not awake to what is going on. So how did you research those planes? Or most likely you didn't. Had you, you never would have linked to a stupid video full of pictures labeled wrong by idiots who don't know what they are seeing. With a techno-pop beat. Maybe the production values reeled you in?
Really, everything you show and tell shows you have no grasp about anything in the atmospheric or aviation field and that you are one of the gullible who accepts anything anyone says about "chemtrails" because you want to believe, and don't care for things like facts and truth.
Go to the mirror, look at yourself and go "Baaaaaaa".



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 04:18 PM
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reply to post by stars15k
 


Sorry but you are still ignorant.

Prove any of what you just said. Are you going to go tell me to read this or that? I could say the same for you.
In fact I am very involved in aviation and have had pilots say "those are not contrails."
So, either you are as dumb as you sound or you are being PAID to post your disinfo. And if so, please tell me who is paying you because I would do a way better job than you.



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 04:22 PM
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reply to post by dplum517
 


I do not believe things because


alot of people do and have.

Your grasp of a patent is as firm as your grasp of anything else you have said. There are now 833,000 hits on Google using "stupid patents". A patent is a money issue only. It is not an affirmation that something works or even exists off of paper. You really should know that as well.


You have not read a damn thing about the above research and how they specify instruments used in airplanes emitting these aerosols.

Oh, but I did! You didn't understand what you were reading. They discuss the planes being used to test for aerosols, and what testing will be done. They are not anywhere talking about contrails, in fact they are not even mentioned. Here is the basics of the what and why for these tests:

The project is designed to examine the influence of anthropogenic aerosols from a mid-size urban area on the microphysics of cumuliform clouds, and the effects of these clouds on urban aerosols that pass through fields of fair weather cumulus (FWC).

Cumuliform and cumulus clouds, I know that doesn't mean anything to you, but it should. These type of clouds are the puffy ones, much lower than anything termed "chemtrails", which (we have discussed this before) would be cirrus clouds. They are seeing if urban areas effect the clouds over them. Nothing about aviation at all, except they will be using specific planes for specific tests.
While "aerosol" is the correct term to use in discussing contrails, contrails are not part of the study you are linking to. Not anywhere. Really. You are getting caught up in the disinformation of "chemtrail" believers who don't understand or care to understand what the word "aerosol" is used for by the rest of the world. And it's not "being sprayed".
Really, you need to go over the report sentence by sentence and try to comprehend what is and is not being said. They are testing urban aerosols, they are not testing aviation aerosols. Big difference to anyone who does know what the report is saying, and the whole world outside of the "chemtrail" believers.
It's why there is no "proof" out there for you to produce. You accept anything given you without research, and it is all easily shown to be wrong, or at least misunderstood.



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 04:35 PM
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Originally posted by dplum517
reply to post by firepilot
 


After you are done reading on the DOE link I posted here is just a tad more of the iceberg.

www.youtube.com...


Wow. just wow.

So tell us what an aerial refueling tanker modified with a water nozzle for releasing water to ice up airliners in testing has to do with chemtrails?

Tell us what an E-6A Navy submarine communications aircraft has to do with chemtrails?

Tell us what a G-2 Turboprop outfitted with air sampling tubes that face FORWARD, has to do with chemtrails?

What does a twin engine Cessna 340 with cloud seeding silver iodide generates have to do with chemtrails? Same with the Beech King Air.

What do barrels of water ballast that can be transferred around in flight to change the center of gravity of an aircraft during testing, have to do with chemtrails?

Same thing as always, whenever chemmies show aircraft photos, its NEVER what they say it is. Its just an internet circle jerk of them reposting each others videos as "proof"

edit on 21-12-2010 by firepilot because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 04:36 PM
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reply to post by stars15k
 


No, no, no. There was no talk on contrails because it has nothing to do with contrails. You take what you want and use it in your own context. It really is quite baffling.
I am not a "Chemtrail believer.' I am a Chemtrail watcher. I don't need to "believe" in something when it already exists.
So, we are probably done with our conversation since neither of us is going to convince the other of anything. Good luck with life, I think you are going to need it.
I am sure you just about due for a break so I bet another disinfo agent will be on soon to pick everything apart and take it all out of context. : )



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 04:46 PM
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reply to post by dplum517
 

I don't get paid for anything. I'm an LDS housewife, with a husband and three dogs at home, a married son, and three grandchildren. I love clouds, and know the basics of them like some people know about wildflowers. I knit, spin, cook, and bake. I like photography. I like storm watching and have chased a few myself, hoping to see a tornado.
I am also fairly bright and have been able to read and understand anything I have read about the science behind what is seen behind planes. I can read the chemistry reports done, and know what good sampling and testing criteria are. I also research everything I'm told to try and find the facts and therefore the truth. If i don't know about something, I learn.
I have read everything thrown at me by "chemtrailers" and have never seen anything like a smoking gun, but have found a lot of speculation and bad science. When I find something not right or true on a site or from a person I regard all the information given as worthless. So Carnicom, CaliforniaSkyWatch, and all the other "chem" sites are worthless. I have never found a science source yet that negates any of the other finding about clouds and contrails. Our knowledge and understanding is growing, but the basics remain the same.
There is nothing out there, no matter who has provided the information that has ever even given me pause about the possibility of "chemtrails". It would be the most labor intensive, costly, scattershot way of delivering anything at anytime for any reason. It's a stupid plan, originated for the internet masses, by people who make their living promoting the concept, who couldn't provide or produce anything even close to proof of any of their claims.
And it's believed by people who would rather sit behind their computers and worry about TPTB from the NWO doing things to "them". Without question or critical thinking.



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 04:53 PM
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reply to post by dplum517
 


Yeah these disinfo guys are really starting to stink the place up aren't they?

What we need is the smoking gun proof, to shut these disinfo guys up once and for all!

I've found the way to the smoking gun:
Gulfstream-1 Research Aircraft


The G-1 is a large twin turboprop with performance characteristics of contemporary production aircraft. It is capable of measurements to altitudes approaching 30,000 feet over ranges of 1500 nautical miles, and can be operated at speeds that enable both relatively slow sampling and rapid deployment to field sites throughout the world. The aircraft is configured for versatile research applications. It accommodates a variety of external probes for aerosol, radiation, and turbulence measurements and internal sampling systems for a wide range of measurements. The G-1 has sufficient cabin volume, electrical power and payload capabilities, and flight characteristics to accommodate a variety of instrument systems and experimental equipment configurations. Internal instrumentation is mounted in removable racks to enable rapid reconfiguration as necessary. Data from most systems are acquired on a central computer that is tailored to airborne research data acquisition. In addition to acquiring the various analog and digital input signals, it can be configured to communicate with and/or control other systems onboard, and to provide time synchronization to other computers.


And it's for hire!

www.pnl.gov...

Let's make it happen!




posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 05:47 PM
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reply to post by Chadwickus
 


When I've got enough cash I'll rent the bloody thing, at least we could test the content of suspect trails. I look forward to having piles of cash... give me a year everybody and I'll get this whole thing sorted out.


The thread's turned into bickering so I'm going to disappear. But... to the people that suggested I look into various things (additive fuel mixtures, other charts etc).... thank you, I will.

weedwhacker - I am indeed in the UK and I did use flightaware, tho I'd lost the link so thanks for that. A friend had helped me out too but it's not fair to bring him into this. I don't completely agree with everything you've said but at least you're not being an utter **** every time you disagree.


Some of you definitely need to tone down the sarcasm tho. Maybe roping down the superiority complexes somewhere safe and away from members of the public would be a good idea too? I wish I was half as clever as some of the people in this thread think they are.



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