Can China Invade Taiwan?

zcheng,

I'm there w/ you.

Hasn't the world seen enough war?

The only problem is the CCP is stiring up nationalistic feelings to cover it's weakness on civil liberties and human rights. This could seriously backfire.

Originally posted by zcheng
That is what we all should work for, and make it a reality.

Then why all the constant sabre rattling Zceng? Why the threats of impending doom? Your calls for peace ring hollow given all the hostility you have posted in the past.

Fred T,
Wisdom is about love for your fellow human .
About knowing when and how to show love.

All else is just technological babel, useless data.

Maybe zcheng has found wisdom.

let me correct some of your naive errors:
1st. Invade?
you should say Reoccupy

2nd.US,China,Taiwan are juxtapose ?
even George Bush recognizes there is one-China, Taiwan is a part of China.

3rd. I can't find a word "ChiCom" in my dictionary , can you explain for me ?

4th. "scorched earth policy" is only considered by the layman of war. Even if ....

5th.It's the BIGGEST joke that China will give up the soil because of losing trade partner.By contraries, US. is afraid of losing the biggest market of China.There is no need to hurt the trade benifit and draw the sword to China.

Originally posted by FredT
With all the talk about about the US, China, and Taiwan one really has to look at the simple fact. China cannot invade at this time.

Why?
1) China lacks the amphibious capacity to move enough troops over
2) Any attempt to airlift in the necessary equipment/troops would in all likelyhood be decimated by Taiwans Pac 2's and thier AF.
3) For all thier thugary, the ChiCom leadership seems to understand that in order to take over Taiwan they would in essence have to burn it down. If they are persuing a scorched earth policy, then there may not be much the US or Taiwan can do to stop them. However, I think they want and need to keep Taiwan viable for thier own economy. Can you imagine the efficiency of slave labor coupled to the quality controll and moderinzation that Taiwan posseses?????
4) The US would not stand by and allow Taiwan to be taken by conventional means. Aside from being a great customer from our planes and weapons systems we also benifit from an economic/industrial standpoint.
5) China can sabre rattle all they want, but can they affort to piss off thier most important trading partner the US?

your post lead to a very interesting topic

have you noticed that anti-China resolution on the UN Human Rights Commission are failed , without exception ?

INDEED, the anti-China resolution has been a political instrument for American leaders to solve your civil problem.

i'm living in China and enjoying the human rights freely.
those people clamouring about China's human rights problem, has anyone arrived in China ?

at least, i feel far more better then in a country whose soldier robbered in to other country and electroshock the prisoner's penis

Originally posted by bodebliss
zcheng,

I'm there w/ you.

Hasn't the world seen enough war?

The only problem is the CCP is stiring up nationalistic feelings to cover it's weakness on civil liberties and human rights. This could seriously backfire.

Originally posted by VictorWoo
let me correct some of your naive errors:

VictorWoo, welcome to the discussion. Before you correct my errors, I recomend that you read throught the thread and alot of the questions you have put forth will be answered.

Some however, I will give you a head start on:
ChiComs: Chinese Communists

While you feel a scorched earth policy is "layman" countries do not keep those cobalt jackets around to make a fashion statement

1st. Invade?
you should say Reoccupy

Several posters have made a clear case that China has no claim on Taiwan, read those posts then reply.

5th.It's the BIGGEST joke that China will give up the soil because of losing trade partner.By contraries, US. is afraid of losing the biggest market of China.There is no need to hurt the trade benifit and draw the sword to China.

The middle kingdom benifits FROM a huge trade deficit. Take that away, no money for toys to use for sabre rattling

VictorWoo, welcome to the discussion. Before you correct my errors, I recomend that you read throught the thread and alot of the questions you have put forth will be answered.

Some however, I will give you a head start on:
ChiComs: Chinese Communists

"Chinese Communists"'s short cut is CCP, "ChiCom" is a home-made word

While you feel a scorched earth policy is "layman" countries do not keep those cobalt jackets around to make a fashion statement

sorry i don't catch your meaning

Several posters have made a clear case that China has no claim on Taiwan, read those posts then reply.

*1st. "Several posters's conclusion" can't delegate the final conclusion.

*2nd. you can have a count that how many countries support one-China while how many don't.
Even American recognizes it.

*3rd. American's thinking can't replace the world's.
There is a idiom in China. "a frog in the bottom of well can only see a little part of world." i means, a person should notwith a very limited outlook

*4th. you should read the Chinese history, and you will find how Taiwan problem comes from.

The middle kingdom benifits FROM a huge trade deficit. Take that away, no money for toys to use for sabre rattling

sorry for understanding problem


[edit on 9/5/2004 by VictorWoo]

Originally posted by VictorWoo
"Chinese Communists"'s short cut is CCP, "ChiCom" is a home-made word

Sigh....
members.a1above.net...@surfbest.net/
www.worldtechtribune.com...
www.orwelltoday.com...

Is that enough references or should I post some more?

While you feel a scorched earth policy is "layman" countries do not keep those cobalt jackets around to make a fashion statement

sorry i don't catch your meaning
Cobalt Jackets are placed around nuclear weapons. The cobal poisons the land and makes it unusable for centuries. A modern version of salting the earth.

Several posters have made a clear case that China has no claim on Taiwan, read those posts then reply.

*1st. "Several posters's conclusion" can't delegate the final conclusion.

Ah, but they backed up those 'conclutions" with historical evidence etc. Can you do the same?

Originally posted by FredT

Sigh....
members.a1above.net...@surfbest.net/
www.worldtechtribune.com...
www.orwelltoday.com...

Is that enough references or should I post some more?

still the idiom "a frog in the bottom of well can only see a little part of world."
i may count more than you if you want.
you should notice the Asian site. because it's NOT of westen bussiness.
so, westen site stands for their own benifits, which can't delegate the whole world's, even the Chinese.

Cobalt Jackets are placed around nuclear weapons. The cobal poisons the land and makes it unusable for centuries. A modern version of salting the earth.

yes China hold the NU weapon, but mean time, China promise, Never take the lead in using nuclear weapon, unless facing the foreign army's agression. so American don't be afraid Taiwan to be scorched earth, unless US. army involved again.

Ah, but they backed up those 'conclutions" with historical evidence etc. Can you do the same?

pity that few American recognized it's the extend of the China's civil war.
in 1949,China liberates. Jieshi Jiang and his rest of Kuomintang retreat in defeat and escaped to the island Taiwan. And it becomes China's rest problem.
In the following history, CCP tried to reoccupy our land. the war break out. The 17th armada of US. navy entered the Taiwan strait and stimied our liberate.
So, can American give an answer to why fight with China ?
And , why don't China has the right to reoccupy our land ?

wow this is an amazing debate to follow. there was a point i was meaning to make, however, then i will recede to observer again. Historical justification for controlling an area IS NO JUSTIFICATION. otherwise russia would invade eastern europe, because it should control it all, france would invade the rest of continental europe because we were all beter off under Charlemagne, Italy - roman empire........ These are only justifications. Ultimately the only people that determine which world power they wish to fall under the influence of is them (thinking back to the 1.3 billion chinese get to decide whether taiwan can "separate") basically lines are drawn and they have nothing to do with rights(historical or other) or the best for the people. when I see a democratic regime (such hope for europe although i know i will be disappointed) then i might be able to believe the propaganda that i hear but so far, the US and China and Russia and i think soon Nigeria and Europe(hoping they are moving away from this) are looking for power for their ruling elite (not necessarily the rich but the powerful) and maintaining them. sorry for the ranting, i will go back to my hole now

those empire systems are replaced by new rules.
now let's face the realism:
the most country , including America, even the UN, admit that the goverment of People's Republic of China is the only legal goverment which delegates China
Taiwan goverment is an unlawful goverment.
let's talk bases on the law ok ?

Originally posted by VictorWoo
So, can American give an answer to why fight with China ?
And , why don't China has the right to reoccupy our land ?

Again, if you read through the thread, and I suggest this one as well:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The Taiwanese are no longer Chinese andy more than the foundign fathers of the US were British. they have thier own culture, thier own identity. If China invades, the US will come to her aid along with other countries. But that is best covered in the other thread.

The point of this thread was: Does China have the capacity to Invade Taiwan at this time

Can China re-take twain?

This question is being asked in many Western countries at the moment, the main reason for this is because of the consequences could lead to a third world war?

China has repeated stated that if twain goes ahead with its calling for independence, then it will be forced to re-take twain, despite if this meant suffering in their economy and even losing the Olympic games in 2008, In April 2003 when US forces invaded IRAQ, Chinese Generals proposed that china should invade while America is distracted. This was rejected but the fear is still there.

So hypertehcial, China announces its going to re-unite twain with china, this is going to be in the form of tactical missiles strikes against twain base�s, followed by an amphibious landing of Chinese tanks and troops, Once Chinese forces are on the Island, there is nothing that could be done to stop the forces from taking Twain, this is due to the fact that China has an army of more then 2m and Thousands more tanks, Planes, etc the one thing you may get is another Chechnya, with gorilla warfare being mounted against Chinese troops.

The problem is for the Chinese, I don�t think they could do it (in terms of military, not political) first of all, U.S has been surrounding China with the Missile Defence programme, EU, Australia, Japan etc, slowly a ring is being formed around China, therefore if the Chinese was to use a Missile strike to open the war, they would be shot down, also would like to use the fact that the US has developed Laser Technology that shoots down incoming missiles, which they sell to twain and other Allies.

Ships and troop movements, In the cold war, American had a problem in the fact that any advance into Berlin, There was not enough US forces to stop the Huge Russian army, American needed a way to slow down Russian Army movements in order to get forces from America to the EU, They would slow down the Russian forces with Aircraft and bombers, This is why the US spends so much money on aircraft and has the best aircraft in the world, so that they could slow down advancing armies, the same tactic would be used against china, American would take out Chinese ships, Aircraft carries, Transport Boats before they would even reach Twain, and to be honest I think any Air-war between China and the US, The US would win simply because they have the better Aircraft.

Ok, just say the Chinese actually do get onto Twain, (after getting heavy casualties from US planes) China Would not be able to fund a such a war, first of all, Chinese forces would be getting pounded from the air, having gorilla attacks against troops and having tanks smashed by US tanks, China is having major problems in terms of providing heath care for its Civilian Population, a slight outbreaks cause China to suffer with outrougues consequences, a war in which thousands of Chinese troops are wounded, could they provide the healthcare? No, which means the death rate would be very high and would have political implications, second of all, US forces have gone into Iraq and its cost the US more then $130 BILLION, and that�s to fight a third rate army, can china be able to spend the same amount on a war?


China could take Twain but would suffer heavily and it would become a another Chechnya, While the rest of the world would put trade blocks are China and screw over Chinese economy, so china might win the battle but by moving against Twain could cost china the second cold war before its fully started.

Victorwoo,

Does this look like your handwriting?

*2nd. you can have a count that how many countries support one-China while how many don't.
Even American recognizes it.

*3rd. American's thinking can't replace the world's.
There is a idiom in China. "a frog in the bottom of well can only see a little part of world." i means, a person should notwith a very limited outlook

*4th. you should read the Chinese history, and you will find how Taiwan problem comes from.

#2: Victorwoo mistakes acknowledgement for acceptance.

#3: The world also only acknowledges the CCP's position.

#4: If you are in China, your history book is CCP propaganda.

While you say you enjoy liberty in your China, 800million peasants in the countryside do not enjoy the same liberties you do. While in your propaganda cocoon, you do not see half the picture. If you were to seek and then publish the truth in your China, your CCP overlords would throw you in prison for 10,15,20 years. HA,HA!

'I'm astounded by those who want to 'know' the universe. When it's hard enough to find your way around Chinatown.' Woody Allen

[edit on 9/5/2004 by bodebliss]

Originally posted by Everlasting England
yes got to the end at last Devilwasp if i knew anything about chinese/taiwain forces id help ya argue but i dont so as always ill do what the english always done sit back & let the scots fight the hard battles

HA HAHA OMFG!
i was laughing my arse off reading that am i still laughing lol!
na but seriosly you guys are ok.
although im not in a good mood with any one from london right now! or the southwest of england and wales!

Originally posted by VictorWoo
those empire systems are replaced by new rules.
now let's face the realism:
the most country , including America, even the UN, admit that the goverment of People's Republic of China is the only legal goverment which delegates China
Taiwan goverment is an unlawful goverment.
let's talk bases on the law ok ?

hey hold on there!
firstly what is the role of the government? to serve the people ,elected by the people for the people. also IF those people dont want to be part of that government then they can leave. now when taiwan declared independace it made a statement "we will not be ruled by you!" now why dont you just face it they dont want you!
its like the NI thing just bigger.
and alaso no goverment can be unlawful unless it breaks a law. and as i exsplained before the taiwanese gov is a legit government.
so dont start this and just accept the situation.

[edit on 5-9-2004 by devilwasp]

yes China hold the NU weapon, but mean time, China promise, Never take the lead in using nuclear weapon, unless facing the foreign army's agression. so American don't be afraid Taiwan to be scorched earth, unless US. army involved again.

so your saying your willing to nuke taiwan JUST to get it back to the mainland? your crazy! that is not comunist thinking! they should not be called that! its more right winged than left winged.

So, can American give an answer to why fight with China ?
And , why don't China has the right to reoccupy our land ?

its not just america.its not YOUR land. not anymore. its the poeple of taiwans land. why cant you leave them be?

[edit on 5-9-2004 by devilwasp]

Originally posted by devilwasp

hey hold on there!
firstly what is the role of the government? to serve the people ,elected by the people for the people. also IF those people dont want to be part of that government then they can leave. now when taiwan declared independace it made a statement "we will not be ruled by you!" now why dont you just face it they dont want you!
its like the NI thing just bigger.
and alaso no goverment can be unlawful unless it breaks a law. and as i exsplained before the taiwanese gov is a legit government.
so dont start this and just accept the situation.

[edit on 5-9-2004 by devilwasp]

What a simple guy you are. What a BIGGEST joke it is.
let's construct a scene:
suppose a California family doesn't like the US. goverment
so one day , it announce: "we want to independ! "
and the family hold a vote, and the result is to independ.
so, the father take up the post of president, the mother to be foreign mission, uncle to be the premier.
brother indites the national anthem, sister embroider the national flag.
then select a day to be "independance day"..
and the living room to be the goverment office place.
So , DO you think this California family is within the law.
it's only make a laughingstock of themself before their neighbor.

Originally posted by devilwasp

so your saying your willing to nuke taiwan JUST to get it back to the mainland? your crazy! that is not comunist thinking! they should not be called that! its more right winged than left winged.

i seems you mistake me again.
China promised "Never use nuclear weapon firstly"
it means that , China will use NU weapon to protect ourself, but not to attack firstly
Do you understand me ?
Taiwan is a part of China, we surely won't burn it down only to take it back.
so, take back the irresponsible speech and let's understand each other better.

its not just america.its not YOUR land. not anymore. its the poeple of taiwans land. why cant you leave them be?

i've to point out again, that Taiwan is a part of China. this policy has win the world wild acceptance including the US. , though some westen people especially in the forum don't want to accept this.
any consequence not based on this rule will lead to wrong answer.
in the quote, you put China, US. , Taiwan in a coordinate place again. So you got the wrong answer.
indeed, Taiwanese have no right to vote, from juristical angle.

i've to remind the discuss friends that:
not the vote can decide everything.
at first, you must have a impersonal judge if the goverment is legal, if the vote is legal.
the answer directly decides whether the result of vote is leagle.

let's come back to this Taiwan problem
unfortunatelly, Taiwan "goverment" is a unlawed goverment.
about this, i think there is not much problem.
anyone not very clearly can red some literature about UN. or ask bush.

so , if a vote held by an unlawed goverment is legal ?
perhaps the vote is too weak because it has no root.

maybe, it collide with some American logic.
indeed, it doesn't.
American logic insist vote to decide everything.
but, any wise people will notice the validity of the vote.

so, i think American and Chinese can educe the same answer about this Taiwan problem.