Can China Invade Taiwan?

Originally posted by devilwasp
oh wow they got 2 aircraft in the net ! frankly i dont see how one ship compares to the loss of most of their fleet in the conflict.
the one punch that was all and they sent aircraft from a base outside the agreed conflict zone.
we took care of that problem mabye not easily but we done it.

How much will Brits contribute to US intervention in Taiwan?

Following is a funny comment on US occupation in Iraq.

grandpa going to bagdad !!!!

some days before around 5,600 grandpa (vietnam veterns) were called on to go to bagdad with a big gun on their back!! they are around 58, 59, 60 years of age!! and also the American soldiers were call on from Japan and Korea !! and the draft is coming too , just the election making the draft issue delayed. whoever wins the election will bring the draft and send more grandpa with grandma then. this is very sickening as you can see they dont care their own people to keep the steling resources from other nation. Now this is possible that those muslim report can be colored with some lies but please do the simple arithmatics . there are already 250,000 us troops with other coalition troops. Isnt it enough against those ill equiped iraqi freedom fighters? look at the latest technology the US troops use against the iraqis. Now what happen in the mean time ? Why calling up those grandpa ? The only possible answer is they need to fill the gap . I dont know whether we get the exact report on the death. it is not possible that you get the news of every US troops death in iraq . its a big country they are in and the communication system are not too good at the moment. so do your math by adding those grandpa by subtracting the gone with the wind troops. how the hell on earth you use these grandpa when you have enough young troops?

Now tell me how many soldiers will be needed to confront China, with US is calling up Vietnam veterans. For Gods sake, many of them are already GrandPas.

I have not visited china but would like too. Why cant the people of taiwan take a vote a merge with china or stay as taiwan. And let the world take this as a final answer to a heated question. In all honesty china does have a right to ask this question of taiwan but what difference does it make too china or the everyday person in china is it resources gold oil or is it some sort of imperial quest to regain every inch of ancient china that has been lost over the years.

the past is the past the future can be good or bad depending on what happens today surely you must believe that if china invades taiwan or as you would say reclaims taiwan then the US will get involved and the future will be bad. So give taiwan citizens the choice and stand by what they say or do you believe choice is a bad thing? or are you afraid that they will say no too china reading back through this thread and others i believe someone mentioned there was a large chinese population in taiwan they could say yes as well.

To me it looks bad on china if they invade taiwan as it is a similar argument to saddam invading kuwait saying it was part of iraq in years past.

My history may be shaky on this area so i apologise for any incorrectness in advance. In defense of my country Britain had the largest empire at one stage and suffered badly over two world wars although winn ing them it cost us dearly I believe we did the world a service and supported freedom and the right of choice if we did not there was a chance we would be speaking german just now or japanese and we agreed with china a lease for hong kong and when the lease was up we did the honourable thing and withdrew (having no cause to fight china) hopefully leaving a strong financial center in the process and we did work with china over the years lots of british servicemen died supporting china in years past. As for being lap dogs to the US we look at the US as family for obvious reasons.

Don't underestimate Britain we are usually on the winning side.

Originally posted by Munro_DreadGod
the past is the past the future can be good or bad depending on what happens today surely you must believe that if china invades taiwan or as you would say reclaims taiwan then the US will get involved and the future will be bad. So give taiwan citizens the choice and stand by what they say or do you believe choice is a bad thing? or are you afraid that they will say no too china reading back through this thread and others i believe someone mentioned there was a large chinese population in taiwan they could say yes as well.
Don't underestimate Britain we are usually on the winning side.

If there should be a vote, it should be conducted by All Chinese people in Mainland China and people in Taiwan. The land does not belong to those live there, but all people of the nation. I do not have full knowledge of conflict in Northern Ireland. I do wandering why Brits not leave there and return the land back to Irelands.

You are more sensible obviously than devilwasp. I believe many people in Britain still think that Britain was spreading civilization via colonization, and all natives should be thankful to Brits.

I do not underestimate and would very much like to see the friendship of British people and Chinese people. But any people or nation supporting Taiwan Indepedence are sworn enemies of China. Anyone interfere in such matter and attacks PLA will be dealt with a devastating blow.

Do you know whether Brits are winning in Iraq or in Basrah? Is it better today than in the 1920s?

Zcheng's statement on Tibet never being is a country is false as it, as it started back in the 2nd centurty B.C, and began a dynasty in 8th century A.D. Tibet was never an actually part of China, during the years since its first dynasty, they traded with the Chinese, Indians, Persians, europeans and others through the silk road. It was only in the 13th century when a Mongolia named Ghenghis Khan invaded and conquered Northern China(I believe his sons conquered the rest of southern China after he died) and a lot more countries (Persia, Russia, eastern europe, etc), but Tibet was never conquered but became a vassal state to the Mongolians by surrendering rather then fighting a hopeless cause. Mongolian control of tibet was replaced by Chinese control of Tibet in 1720 I believe, they didn't join the Chinese, the were occupied. I keep hearing about how Tibet was part of China for the last 700 years, more of the oldest occupation of a country.
Also zcheng loves to point out on these forums that the US should give back hawaii to these people, or california back to the mexicans, alaska back to the russians, the whole the USA back to the indians, etc etc etc,. Well why don't you ask the russias, mexicans, indians, etc, living in the US, if they want to be under control by Russia, Mexico, The waterbuffalo clan, etc. Also the native Indians who are alive 'now' have their reservations, casino's, communties etc as well as good jobs, they don't want 50 square miles neither do they want a Communist telling them what to do.

What a joke, a vote, yeah right, 1,298,847,624 Communist Chinese against 22,749,838 Taiwanese.

Lets see, 98.28% would vote for unification with Mainland China.

First, Tibet was not a country.

From www.friends-of-tibet.org.nz..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">here it seems to be that Tibet has been in control of its own affairs since at least the 13th century. The latest embodiment of this was in January 1913 when Tibet and Mongolia declared themselves free and separate from China. So Tibet defiantly considered itself a country even if China would not admit it.

Second, do you know the history of Tibet in China?

Yes, it seems to me that Tibet has operated as a sovereign nation since at least 1642, when the Emperor at the time recognised the Dalai Lama as an independent sovereign. Since then there have been various occupation of Tibet by Ghurkhas and then the Manchu army that came to the rescue but had to be kicked out themselves. However, most of the time China and Tibet were friends. Until the 1949 invasion that is.

Third, if you do want China to leave Tibet, you should ask US return all the lands back to Native Indians first.

What does that have to do with China and Tibet? How does one countries wrong make your countries wrong into a right?

Otherwise, you are just another hypocrite.

I agree, however as you can seen I�m not.

Originally posted by Zife
Mongolian control of tibet was replaced by Chinese control of Tibet in 1720 I believe, they didn't join the Chinese, the were occupied. I keep hearing about how Tibet was part of China for the last 700 years, more of the oldest occupation of a country.
Also zcheng loves to point out on these forums that the US should give back hawaii to these people, or california back to the mexicans, alaska back to the russians, the whole the USA back to the indians, etc etc etc,. Well why don't you ask the russias, mexicans, indians, etc, living in the US, if they want to be under control by Russia, Mexico, The waterbuffalo clan, etc. Also the native Indians who are alive 'now' have their reservations, casino's, communties etc as well as good jobs, they don't want 50 square miles neither do they want a Communist telling them what to do.

Even according to your account, Tibet was part of China ate least since 1720, long before even the founding of US. It is a hypocrite when you ask other do something, and you would not do the same thing.

The former settlers from Europe conducted genocide to native indians, while PLA liberated the slaves in Tibet and destroyed its slave system. What a comparison!!

Originally posted by Zife
What a joke, a vote, yeah right, 1,298,847,624 Communist Chinese against 22,749,838 Taiwanese.

Lets see, 98.28% would vote for unification with Mainland China.

Why do not you declare your home as Independent?

Originally posted by Nacnud

Third, if you do want China to leave Tibet, you should ask US return all the lands back to Native Indians first.

What does that have to do with China and Tibet? How does one countries wrong make your countries wrong into a right?

Otherwise, you are just another hypocrite.

I agree, however as you can seen I�m not.

You are a hypocrite since I do not see you advocate US returning all land back to native Indian people.

Problem with ireland is that a large percentage of the population want to remain part of the UK. If this was not the case then Britain would give all of ireland to the irish. But the choice would remain with the people of that country. In iraq i hope our our troops come home soon but i am proud of the job they are doing and have done. The people of iraq are better off now than under saddam. I'm sure in future years even they will come to believe this.

Getting back to the question i asked you why do the people of china have a vote. Surely this would be a loaded deck only one outcome. Are you scared that a honest vote with both cases being put to the citizens and the outcome declared in favour or against. That is fair surely. I don't think that because I think differently from You that I am a enemy of the PLA.

Liberation means to free someone from something, what if the taiwanese people don't want liberated i'm sorry choice is something you have or you don't. People die in there thousands for freedom of choice. Your government seem to be doing a good job in china people don't seem to be unhappy but can you honestly say that if the people of china where given a choice of political system or leadership that at some point they would not change the way they are governed? Will that choice ever happen without bloodshed? I admire the chinese culture, food, movies(martial arts) and history although pre communist. but i dont understand this enemy of the PLA dealt with by severe means thing. If we can't get on living on this very small planet with limited resources then the future is bleak.

Originally posted by Munro_DreadGod
Getting back to the question i asked you why do the people of china have a vote. Surely this would be a loaded deck only one outcome. Are you scared that a honest vote with both cases being put to the citizens and the outcome declared in favour or against. That is fair surely. I don't think that because I think differently from You that I am a enemy of the PLA.

Of course, everyone is entitled to his opinion, and having different opinion on Taiwan does not mean he is the enemy of China. In fact, many Taiwan business many supporting Taiwan Independence are doing businesses in China.

It will be a different matter when say UK fleets are joining with US in intervention of Taiwan and attacking PLA forces. Only in such situation, you will be considered the enemy of China.

I do appreciate your opinion on this with sensible argument. All Chinese people have the right to say on Taiwan issue, because it belongs to all Chinese people. Current situation in Taiwan is the result of unfinished Civil War in China.

By the way, are the majority of British people support British involvement in Iraq?

Yes the majority support the war at the last count but not by much.

Not too seem ignorant i will read up on china taiwan civil war before answering as i dont know this history.

I do not have full knowledge of conflict in Northern Ireland. I do wandering why Brits not leave there and return the land back to Irelands.

Northern Ireland (NI) is a complicated issue and I�m not going to explain the origin of the country or it�s history but I will give you a brief overview of the situation today.

There are two main political groups the Unionists who want NI to be part of the United Kingdom. Then there are the Republicans who want NI to unite with the Republic of Ireland. The IRA supports the Republican cause but both sides have their own terrorist groups. These are not supported by 99% of population, including the politicans.

In the current peace process it is the goal to get the Northern Irish people to decide for themselves their own future. To help this is a power sharing executive with members from all parties voted for in local elections is currently making the day to day decisions of regional government. The people of Northern Ireland make the decisions for the people of Northern Ireland.


[edit on 6-9-2004 by Nacnud]

Originally posted by Munro_DreadGod
Yes the majority support the war at the last count but not by much.

Not too seem ignorant i will read up on china taiwan civil war before answering as i dont know this history.

Thanks. Everyone will have to learn the related history to understand current problems.

Good luck to those British people support the war, and regrets to those against it. Hope the British people will soon realize that current Iraq war is unwinnable.

Originally posted by Nacnud
Northern Ireland (NI) is a complicated issue and I�m not going to explain the origin of the country or it�s history but I will give you a brief overview of the situation today.

Thanks for the explaination. We can see the complicated nature in such kind of conflicts.

firstly I thought the war was won. Its the peace they are trying to win now.
Secondly I am interested as to your solution and what outcomes do you think would be if this withdrawal took place?

Originally posted by Munro_DreadGod
firstly I thought the war was won. Its the peace they are trying to win now.
Secondly I am interested as to your solution and what outcomes do you think would be if this withdrawal took place?

Eventually, Iraq Resistance will defeated the invasion and occupation forces in Iraq today. The final outcome will be the independent and sovereign Iraq and choose their form of governance. Sunnis and Shias are now joinning together in this effort.

The casualties on US side is at least several times more than the acknowledged numbers. That is why we see grandpas are called up again.

I think Iraqi people are about 2 years from their success. Even in China, the resistance of Japanese occupation took about 8 years. Iraqi people are honorable and courageous.

UK soldiers are in a better position to withdraw, when the time comes. US/UK won a battle in second Iraq war, but have not win the war yet. I bet the war will never won, and no more pillaging of Iraqi oil resources.

With Russia now obviously furious in West support of Chechens in recent attacks, the foreign support of Iraqi Resistance will obviously increase. The outlook of US/UK occupation is never been so bleak.

Originally posted by zcheng
Eventually, Iraq Resistance will defeated the invasion and occupation forces in Iraq today. The final outcome will be the independent and sovereign Iraq and choose their form of governance. Sunnis and Shias are now joinning together in this effort.

With Russia now obviously furious in West support of Chechens in recent attacks, the foreign support of Iraqi Resistance will obviously increase. The outlook of US/UK occupation is never been so bleak.

Ah what would a day be without the blabbering of Zchengs ChiCOm propaganda machine:

The resistance will be defeated and democracy will take over Iraq. Someday China will too. The US has not supported the Chechens and will not. As far as I am concerend any sympathy for thier cause died when they started pulling the bodies of children from the rubble.

Quote by Zcheng
"Even according to your account, Tibet was part of China ate least since 1720, long before even the founding of US. It is a hypocrite when you ask other do something, and you would not do the same thing."

First of all I don't care what the Americans do with their country, you don't see governments exiled from the U.S, where is the Native Indian government, ohh yeah there isn't one. I also never mentioned anywhere in my statement that China should give back Tibet, I'm just stating that it never was part of China, it was occupied by the Mongolians(nonChinese) and then handed down to China. If someone(Mongolia) gives you(China) a gift(Tibet) for you birthday(1720), you don't expect to give it back, cause it belongs to you.

Quote by Zcheng
"The former settlers from Europe conducted genocide to native indians, while PLA liberated the slaves in Tibet and destroyed its slave system. What a comparison!!"

How I'm I comparing what the europeans did 500 years ago and how the PLA liberated Tibet from a slave system, and this is basic quote, I never mentioned that in my last post. I see how you want to the change subject to this matter, for you're probably pretty resourceful in this area.

But I will give you some history about the genocide in north america, I know that it occured.
It is estimated that 80% of all death of Native Indians during the arrival of europeans was caused to disease such as measals and chicken pox, which the indians did not have any immunity for. I guess the europeans had bio weapons back in the 16th century, yeah ok. There are many estimates to what he population In Canada and U.S was before the europeans arrived, it estimates from 1.8 to 18 million, I believe. I blieve it was more to 1.8 million then 18 million, for Indians were scattered in small communties around North America. It was a pretty bad thing that the europeans did, not the people who are alive now.

The Chinese on the other hand, 30 or so odd years ago killed what, 35 million of their own people, I guess that isn't a holocasut, ohh but the Chinese "liberated" about 1 or 2 million Tibetans from slavery, making them so much better the former europeans who did commit genocide but not liberate no one from slavery.

500 year old Europeans + genocide + no liberation of slaves = BAD

Modern Chinese + 35 million murdered + liberation of Tibet = GOOD

Originally posted by zcheng

With Russia now obviously furious in West support of Chechens in recent attacks,

Where on Earth do you get these weird ideas?