Is It Wrong To Lie?

for ages LYING is always wrong

but human as we are, we lie even for the simplest things
we lie maybe because we wanna stay out of trouble or we want to protect someone
and for the lamest reason, we wanna look cool..,

My mother says that a lie to save someone else's life..or to help then is greater than a million truths. We lie all the time but the real question is...are we lying for a good reason? Or with none at all. Cause if it's the latter..just don't do it.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by Death_Kron


I have only read your opening post...
I am a christian and we are not suppose
to lie.I have been struggling with this question
for a long time.
What if my telling the truth could cause another
harm or even death?I would be in a situation I
wouldn't know how to handle.

reply to post by Death_Kron


There are also lies to protect the innocent... as when one relates a story or personal experience and doesn't want children to suffer the consequences of a family's error in judgement.

well what do you say

when a person says...

do I look fat in this???

Originally posted by Thurisaz
well what do you say

when a person says...

do I look fat in this???

Abe Lincoln in that Geico commercial comes to mind.

reply to post by FlourGirl



It is really hard to be honest. How often do we lie to protect others feelings?

How is a person going to feel if you answer their question honestly?
farout...

lie, lie and lie!
Be as diplomatic as possible, cos people can't handle the truth

reply to post by Thurisaz


You either lie or die,depending on the
gender of the person asking.

reply to post by mamabeth

Absolutely!!

(example)
If your ex is violent and you tell him why you don't want to be with him... your dead

reply to post by Thurisaz


There was a joke I heard a while back...
A man and his wife were deciding on a
anniversary gift.The wife wanted something
that would go from 0 to 200 in 60 seconds.
The wife was wanting a sports car,her husband
bought her a set of bathroom scales.He was
never heard from again.

Originally posted by HappilyEverAfter
To you who judge and say you never lie,
I call you liars !
Impossible, totally impossible, NEVER is a very long time.
If this is about being honest, then YOU, are not.

Your experience differs from other people's, and so you do not know the circumstances of their lives and thus cannot make such a claim... although I understand how easy it is for most people to Believe as you do.

Never begins from the moment you choose to be totally Honest. Everything before it was a growth curve to living Authentically with Integrity.

Originally posted by KIZZZY
Yeah, a self-appointed guru...figures!

Thank you for judging me as something less and of no value. Do you feel better now

May I ask what hurts you so much that you feel the need to try and hurt me?

Originally posted by KIZZZY
I gave you a scenario.....to tell a fib to save someone from jumping off a roof....or not to tell the fib...

No. This is the offered scenario....

Originally posted by KIZZZY
wow...what total bulldinkery is this? lolllllllll

I can see it now....poor guy up on the roof ready to jump whilst

you're all wrapped up in your self-righteousness

not willing to say anything to save that guy just so you can turn around

and tell everyone how wonderful you are!

The guy jumps because of your unwillingness to

say anything.....ANYTHING that will keep him from jumping.

Notice that nowhere in the offered scenario was it mentioned I have to Fib to save their life ?

Originally posted by KIZZZY
This fib would entail saving a person's LIFE.....

You opted not to fib to save his life! In turn the guy jumps.

You do whatever you CAN DO to stop someone from killing themselves, in this scenario, from

jumping off a roof. The jumper is handed over to the PROFESSIONALS! That fib was a

"mitzvah". Whether it goes against a person's grain or not is not the point!

You do what you must do in a set of circumstances! The right thing to do! The white lie

was the right thing to do knowing full well this person would in turn be handed over

to a Professional Psychiatrist who is equipped to counsel and evaluate this person.

Timing in these circumstances is of the essence!

Once again you are talking an Extreme Situation. This thread's Title only asks, "Is it Wrong to Lie?"

Using extreme situations to Justify Dishonesty in General isn't really applicable to the discussion as it focuses only on things that are not everyday for the majority of people. It's fine for those who wish to Lie in these types of Extreme Situations, it is their right to do as they see fit.

In everday life, Dishonesty is a cancer in our Society and from what I see at ATS it seems to be something that in America at least is acceptable and expected from the majority of people. Is that a fair perception?

In Australia we were raised to be Honest. Sure as kids we lied to get out of trouble. Sure most guys said Yes when asked about the size of Butts.. I avoided the question by saying the Lady didn't need to seek for a Compliment from me using this type of manipulation.

What I did was the put the cards on the table for all to see, I named the Drama in play. How else can one learn what is blocking our growth if we don't face up to listening and looking at it?

Sure most people hate hearing the Truth. That does not mean we should buckle to the pressure of their Comfort Zones. There is no rule to say Truth has to be sugar-coated, but it can be done Lovingly even while being done ruthlessly.

Be well.

Originally posted by Thurisaz
..........If your ex is violent and you tell him why you don't want to be with him... your dead

In such relationships you are going to Suffer anyway, no matter what you ever say/don't say or do/don't do. Why tell them, why not just Go and not come back? Better your freedom than living in fear the remainder of your days.

Same with the German's searching for Jews scenario offered earlier in this thread.. we know they conducted house to house searches rouding up Jews and killing the supporters... a Yes or No at the front door will save no one if they were hiding Jews.

reply to post by Tayesin


Oh pah leeze...spare me your poppycock!

Originally posted by KIZZZY
reply to post by Tayesin

 

Oh pah leeze...spare me your poppycock!

Thank you again. May I ask why you are so Aggressive toward me please?

"Originally posted by KIZZZY Yeah, a self-appointed guru...figures!"

Thank you for judging me as something less and of no value. Do you feel better now

May I ask what hurts you so much that you feel the need to try and hurt me?

I received no answer to this simple questions.


Below are statements. Please tell me why they are Poppycock....

Using extreme situations to Justify Dishonesty in General isn't really applicable to the discussion as it focuses only on things that are not everyday for the majority of people.

This thread's Title only asks, "Is it Wrong to Lie?"

Sure most people hate hearing the Truth. That does not mean we should buckle to the pressure of their Comfort Zones. There is no rule to say Truth has to be sugar-coated, but it can be done Lovingly even while being done ruthlessly.

No. This is the offered scenario....

"Originally posted by KIZZZY wow...what total bulldinkery is this? lolllllllll I can see it now....poor guy up on the roof ready to jump whilst you're all wrapped up in your self-righteousness not willing to say anything to save that guy just so you can turn around and tell everyone how wonderful you are! The guy jumps because of your unwillingness to say anything.....ANYTHING that will keep him from jumping."

Notice that nowhere in the offered scenario was it mentioned I have to Fib to save their life ?

Thank You

As I said before, this subject interests me, and I make a great effort to study this whenever I can.
I have to bring some perspective to all of you.

According to this: www.eurekalert.org...
- 60% of people lie at least once during a ten minute conversation and
- the average for their study was 2 or 3 lies per 10 minute conversation


I have to tell you folks, in my line of work I deal with too much people. And from all social backgrounds possible: from the "cleaning lady", to the CEO of a multi-million dollars company.
In the past 6 months I have worked closely with hundreds of people.

Without ANY doubt, I am yet to meet a person I won't catch lying.

Meaning: Every single person I know, has lied at least once right in front of me.



So, I have a rhetoric question for all people saying "I never tell a lie": Aren't you lying to yourself?



Peace

reply to post by Sator


I used to work on computers, before that cars - lying is part of the gig, right?

Originally posted by Death_Kron
Hello all,

Following on in my little series of moral dilemmas I thought I'd ask a question with regards to a basic human psychological response, one which is as old as mankind itself.

As you all know conspiracies and lying go hand in hand, just for clarity a lie is defined as:

A lie (also called prevarication, falsehood) is a known untruth expressed as truth.

Link: Lie

Thus lying is the process of expressing an untruth as the truth.

Firstly we need to look at the most common reasons human beings lie:

* The most common reason is to avoid getting into trouble or recieving punishment (usually because the individual has done something wrong e.g. broke the law, had the day off work "sick" etc

* I'd say the second common reason people lie is actually laziness. Everyone tells "white" or "little" lies daily, sometimes it's just easier e.g. "Did you ring the garage?", "Yeah I did, no one answered" Note: Do you think "white" lies are acceptable? Or are they just as bad as any other lie?

* Thirdly, many people lie out of kindness and to spare peoples feelings because as they say sometimes the truth hurts and sometimes the opposite i.e. people lie to hurt other peoples feelings...

* Lastly, people lie out of greed; they might have access to materials/information/people etc and want that access all to themselves so they lie.

All lies in my opinion are told out of a variation of the four above points.

With this in mind, whats your opinions on lying? Is it wrong to lie?

Many people on this site believe the Government and TPTB lie to us on a constant basis because they know something we don't or because they have access to things that they are keeping from us, some people believe the Government have alien spacecraft recovered and in storage and some people believe the Government are deliberately putting chemicals into our water supply and not telling us, it goes on and on...

Does anyone on here believe that the Government is actually lying to protect us?

Back to lying in general, is it ever right to lie to people, whats your personal opinions on the subject?

Personally, I hate liars and being lied to, I'd rather someone come up to my face and tell me they don't like me rather than lie and pretend. I guess that's just the character that I have, I very, very rarely lie and when I do it's usually about something extremely important.

Thoughts people?

Lying may have a utliterian purpose at times. Something people SHOULDNT know, not in their field of knowledge to appreciate. Lies like this are common, and in my opinion theyre not so much lies as truths concealed in a garb that can be appreciated by lesser minds. Some truths are truths at different levels. For instance, in biblical hermanuetics, theres a concept called PaRDeS. Each letter is an acroynym for a level of biblical interpretation. The basis of this concept is that all levels reflect a different level of truth, each being true to the level that it manifests at. Also, the highest is the most true, until at the last level the truth has been constricted or confined to only one sphere of activity. So, a mystical truth, which is true throughout, also happened on the literal level as well. But to those who havent got the vessel - the intellectual capacity to appreciate certain abstract truths, this truth is only imparted as a literal event. Although it is true, literally speaking, that this event occurred in human history, this event is merely the consequence of a spiritual truth. This has been the practice of the Jewish rabbis throughout history. This is definitely an acceptable form of 'lying' otherwise it would be a truth which would be too powerful for those with inadequate fac ulties to comprehend, making it a 'throwing pearls unto swines' scenario, or worse, as "i cant handle this" scenario where the person becomes overwhelmed by the information.

I think lying is horrible. Lying to someone so as not to hurt their feelings can at times be very very relevant. lying in these situations arent so much lying as it is having the power to affect anothers spiritual reality. If they were exposed to the 'truth' which could be very harsh for them to handle, you risk hurting them. Conversely, by lying, lets say one was feeling nervous before a big speech or event, and they ask you if they look good - confident. If you told them the truth that they look very nervous, that wouldnt be helpful at all. That would actually be a grossly immature and improper way of handling that situation. In TRUTH - what would be right would to tell them that theyre speaking good, looking confident. In this way you make a reality, a world, by conveying a truth that up until that point was concealed by a lie - a state which hides the inherent peace and tranquility that can exist in each state. So, i think at certain times white lies are more truths than lies. As paradoxical as that may seem.

As for the PTB. They are full out liars. Thieves, criminals horrible despicable Ego inflated imitators of what it is to be human.

These sorta people are Inflated to the most grossly abnormal degress. to them - NO TRUTH exists. All reality is inherently subjective and therefore subject to human manipulation or appropriation. Hence in Greek Hellenistic thought, reality is described as either Tragic, or Comedic. One of the two. These are both theatric states. States that are very unreal, but processed first by human being and conveyed as some sort of divine story. Sooo, the PTB are gnostic pagans. Ive personally studied a little of this philosophy and its as morally abject as morally abject can get. They believe themselves to be the divinely selected noble class (in fact, its europes nobility who are at the top of the pyramid) while we ourselves are the lesser animals, subject to the predatory behavior. To them, humans are merely more evolved animals. Like animals, we have lusts, drives and a need to survive. Those who are most evolved have developed the necessary spiritual skills, namely the ability to decieve, to get ahead in the world. Every day more people join their ranks - to get along they go along and so play the part of satan (adversary) not worrying over the ethical issues, which as pagan philosophy has reasoned, is a mistaken perception of reality. In pagan thought, reality is inherently one. There is no true dualism. No right and wrong, only the NOW. The now is the simple experience of the unity of past and future, good and evil. When their higher nature, namely their 'self' demands action, they act. They do not succumb, so they think, to their conscience, which they compare to a tyrant. They instead balance the two, as apollo taught - moderation in all areas.

So, the powers that BE most certainly do not tell us lies for our benefit. They mislead us to control us, to manipulate us, and to eventually discard us.

Whether or not it's wrong is just an opinion. Me, I personally don't like it. I would rather you hide the true or not mention anything before you lie to me.

I don't lie anymore, I usually just hide the truth if needed.

For example, if I ate someone's hamburger and they ask, "I wonder what happened to my hamburger!?", I'll say "wow, it's gone!?" and it's not really a lie because I didn't say "I didn't eat it". If they ask "Did you eat it?", then I'm obligated to get the courage and say "yeah".

It's very frustrating when someone makes claims about you publicly in these threads and then does not answer any questions but instead goes to other threads and ignores this.... so KIZZY... are you going to answer the questions or are you going to let Ego get in the way?

Originally posted by I.C. Weiner
reply to post by Sator

 

I used to work on computers, before that cars - lying is part of the gig, right?

Disgusting, actually.

You can't pay me to lie. That is called "selling your soul".

IF you think it is right to sell your soul and your family's in order to get them more comforts (because a two-story house and a ford focus do not equate to "survival"), then that is your own vanity. But don't ruin other people because of your vanity.

As well, we ARE all liars, you are right, previous poster. However, people can change and choose to never lie again. This is the defining time in a human being's life. When they choose to GROW UP!

You can be forgiven, but you must stop what you are doing.

Any of you who thinks that lying equates to survival, you are full of crap. Do you have to lie to make the crops grow? Do you have to lie to make the animals graze? Do you have to lie to cut down a forest to build a house?

Maybe because of all the dishonest legislation that we have which is made possible by the incredibly weak and fearful minds of the people who allow the Suits to tell them what they should and should not believe...

But, in reality, naturally, a lie is nothing but a deception in order to protect your selfish vanity or to purposefully cause trouble in anothers' life.

And yes, some people lie now because of the stumblingblock cast before us by the %$^&ing elites who want us to be divided, conquered, and enslaved to our own sins and vanity... but that does not excuse us from our responsibilties to eachother.

When you are interacting with a human being, that human being is JUST LIKE YOU. Treat them with respect and GIVE THEM THE TRUTH.

Feelings mean NOTHING, but the truth means everything. Life is void without truth.

Regarding the example of the person wanting to jump off a cliff.
It seems to me, that lying to them to save them, infers that it is good to save life. Moreso than being honest. But to whom is it good for? Is it a personal belief that makes you feel good about yourself because you saved a life?
Who says it is good to save life? Is it an outlook stemming from society? Religion?
Who am I to decide whether someone should live or die? If a person has decided to end their life, whom am I to stop them? Imagine that the person wanting to jump is because people lie to to the person.

I endavour to tell the truth, if people don't want the truth...don't ask! I mean do people ask questions expecting to be lied to? Seems silly to me.
Lying(and secrecy) are pathways to power. What power do I gain by lying?
I've heard it said that knowledge is power, knowledge seems to me to be defined as truth. Sharing the truth shares power. Sharing a lie gains the liar power, and seperates the one in the know to the one not.