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Is It Wrong To Lie?

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posted on Oct, 7 2010 @ 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by TarzanBeta
I believe it is obvious as a human being as to what the interpretations will be... you said it yourself in the beginning post - what reasons people have. You summed it up. Good job.

A poster has told the world that it is possible to survive without lying. Isn't that enough?


It's also possible to survive without drinking alcohol, eating meat, smoking cigarettes, having friends, having an occupation and a whole host of other things but people choose to engage in the aforementioned practices for various reasons.

The same applies to lying and I'm interested in what peoples opinions are on the subject, like I said if you don't want to continue participating in this thread then simply go elsewhere.



posted on Oct, 7 2010 @ 11:09 AM
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Good thread.
This subject interests me. For the sake of discussion, we should classify lies, in order to better understand and to discuss if/when is right/acceptable to tell a lie:

There are, at least, thirteen different lies a person may commit. When someone commits a lie, it can be categorized as either:

Fabrication
When someone submits a statement as the truth, but does not know if the statement is actually the truth.
Example: I did turn the stove off

Bold- faced lie
A bold face lie is a lie that is told, but is obvious to everyone listening/reading
Example: Your son tells you he didn’t go and play in the mud, but you can see mud on his sneakers

Lying by omission
Lying by omission is a lie when you state the truth, but you leave something out. Have you ever heard the phrase,” it’s till lying if you don’t tell all of it”? Well that is an example of lying by omission.
Example: A parent may ask his child what he/she did while he was gone, and the child responds”I did my homework”, which is true, but he completely discluded the fact that he played video games. In other words, he omitted the part where he played video games.

Lie-to-children
A lie that makes a mature subject acceptable to children.
Example: Where do babies come from?
Answer: the stork brought you, or we grew you

White Lie
A white lie would cause no harm if discovered, and is usually beneficial to the liar and the hearer. White lies are often used to avoid offence.

Noble Lie
A noble lie is a lie that will cause great discord if uncovered, and usually has the effect of helping someone maintain power.

Emergency lie
A strategic lie told in dire situations.
For example: A bully punches a boy on the playground, and the teacher asks him how he got a black eye. The boy tells the teacher that he fell and hit his eye. The boy knows if he tells the teacher, the bully will hurt him again.

Perjury
Lying under the oath

Bluffing
Pretending to have an intention or capability that someone doesn’t actually have.

Exaggeration
Stretching the truth.

Jocose lies
Teasing or sarcasm

Contextual lies
Stating something in a particular context. The statement may be true, but without complete information it gives a false impression. A contextual lie may also be a misleading tone in your voice.

Promotion lies
Advertisers lie or exaggeration such as: “You will love our product”



posted on Oct, 7 2010 @ 11:11 AM
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reply to post by Sator
 


That's a good post, it helps to put the different types of lying into context


Well done.



posted on Oct, 7 2010 @ 11:11 AM
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I've told little white lies, usually to make someone feel better or to avoid punishment (being an abused child I learned this one early). Thank goodness I don't feel that is necessary any longer and I always tried not to corner my own children into having to lie. With that said I don't tell big lies and I try very hard not to lie at all. So if I am exhausted but not sick and I feel I need the day off work I can't say when I call in that I'm tired, they would say I could rest on my day off. And yes I think the Govt. lies to us, but not to protect us, its to keep us uninformed of all the deceiving things they are doing. Govts. are big time liars IMO.



posted on Oct, 7 2010 @ 11:21 AM
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The Difference Between a Lie and a “Little White Lie”



There is nothing wrong with lying. However, one must be able to decide whether it is appropriate to do so.

We usually try to achieve our goals by any means necessary. These often include lying to others as lies can help us form other people’s opinions in the way most helpful to us. We do this even though we were taught to always tell the truth. These morals were passed upon us by our parents. However, later on we caught our parents lying to us too. I am sure you remember how they told you that Santa Claus brings the presents or the lies about how children get to their parents. So, why should we always tell the truth, if those moralizing are lying too? Well, there is nothing wrong in telling a lie. But it is important to learn the difference between a lie and a ‘little white lie’.

Being able to distinguish these two types of a lie is essential. The reason for that is the different effect of these lies. The regular lie will usually swing back and hit you later. It has also a potential to hurt other people or their feelings. In some extremes, your lies can even completely ruin someone’s life or even get them killed.

Because of this, it is important to always think twice before you say something untrue. Always consider whether it might hurt someone’s feelings, alter their opinions or make you look a better person than you really are. In such a case it is just a lie. Also, if it is aimed at getting you out of trouble and ditching your responsibility for the actions you have taken, then it is a bad and in the end also a harmful lie.

It is best to avoid this kind of lies at all. The effects of exposed lie are always far worse than those of saying the truth. That is so even when the truth will get you in trouble. Most of the lies get exposed sooner or later anyway and when they do, your situation will be even more difficult. There are several reasons for that. The most important ones being that you will lose your credibility and that everyone hates to be lied to. People affected by your lies then tend to be less forgiving.

On the other hand, a lie falling under the category of ‘little white’ lies usually has a different effect. It is aimed at sparing someone’s feelings, easing their suffering or even keeping a tradition. Wide spread lies that are told to children by their parents can also be considered harmless. Sure, they will make most children feel betrayed when they find out the truth, but it will do no real harm. Instead, parents are doing them a favor by keeping things inappropriate for their age out of their minds and thus have more joy off their childhood.

So, if the lie is intended to help someone else without negatively affecting others, then it is a ‘little white’ lie. This is, for example, the case of doctor telling his patient that the procedure is painless even if it is not. This doctor does not say this for selfish reasons. He just wants to spare the patient some stress and maybe even pain as we tend to perceive the pain more thoroughly when we expect it. He also does not lose his credibility as the patient knows doctor’s intentions were selfless. Also, telling positive little lies about someone’s appearance will do harm to nobody and it will not come back in the future to haunt you.

To conclude, there is nothing wrong with lying. However, one must be able to decide whether it is appropriate to do so. This is so, because telling a lie and telling a ‘little white lie’ will have entirely different consequences. While telling a lie has potential (that is usually fulfilled sooner or later) to cause problems, a ‘little white lie’ is harmless and it is intended to please others or spare them some suffering.


socyberty.com...



posted on Oct, 7 2010 @ 11:30 AM
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reply to post by KIZZZY
 


Good post KIZZY, have a star from me.

I'd still say though, that personally, I'd rather a doctor tell me if a procedure was going to be painful for example as opposed to him telling me a white lie in order to spare my feelings of distress. At least if I knew it was going to hurt I could prepare myself for the pain, if I'm expecting it to be painless and in fact it's incredibly painful then it's going to hurt more in my opinion, pain isn't as painful if your expecting it - but that's for another thread


I'd say there are more than one type of white lies though, for example when someone asks another have they done a particular task and they reply that they have when in fact they haven't, it's easier for some people to lie rather than admit the truth because they know they'll recieve a mouthful for not completing what they should have.

With that in mind, personally I find smaller white lies more annoying than larger, more malicious lies. Why you may ask? Because I don't see the need to lie about trivial things, I can understand people lying about larger matter (I'm not saying its right) but why lie about something so trivial about making a phone call or not moving a towel in the bathroom?

I'm not saying that I'm 100% perfect, no one is, but I can honestly say that I try my absolute best not to lie by nature including little white lies but as I've already mentioned, a lot of that is down to my personality. I'm truthful by nature and don't like lying to people...



posted on Oct, 7 2010 @ 11:31 AM
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reply to post by KIZZZY
 


Just look at the first line of that. This individual is either an idiot or demoralized. Quit trying to find justifications for the immoral act of lying. These are just rationalizations.

A lie is a lie, period.

It rarely does more good than harm, it's just that it seems most think in very shallow terms, and can't see the subtle effects that each lie brings. It is the thorn in our side which keeps us from seeing ourselves as we are, and progressing much more efficiently.



posted on Oct, 7 2010 @ 11:50 AM
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reply to post by Death_Kron
 


There are degrees in everything my friend Kron. People are very different as it should be.

That is what makes a horse-race!

Have a wonderful day!



posted on Oct, 7 2010 @ 11:52 AM
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So, when your wife or girlfriend asks you "does this dress make my butt look fat?", unless you have a superb relationship, DO NOT answer "it is not the dress that makes your butt look fat"
:shk:

It could be the little white lie that keeps you sleeping in the house rather than the garage.

Some little lies are OK. Often the person knows the little white lie for what it is, but will appreciate your attempt to make them feel better.



posted on Oct, 7 2010 @ 11:53 AM
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Originally posted by KIZZZY
reply to post by Death_Kron
 


There are degrees in everything my friend Kron. People are very different as it should be.

That is what makes a horse-race!

Have a wonderful day!


I agree,

Have a good day yourself!



posted on Oct, 7 2010 @ 11:53 AM
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Originally posted by unityemissions
reply to post by KIZZZY
 


Just look at the first line of that. This individual is either an idiot or demoralized. Quit trying to find justifications for the immoral act of lying. These are just rationalizations.

A lie is a lie, period.

It rarely does more good than harm, it's just that it seems most think in very shallow terms, and can't see the subtle effects that each lie brings. It is the thorn in our side which keeps us from seeing ourselves as we are, and progressing much more efficiently.


I respect your right to voice your opinion....but that is all it really is...your opinion ...nothing more.

What is good for you is not good for another....whether you like it or not!

So keep your opinion!

Happy Kwanzaa!



posted on Oct, 7 2010 @ 02:25 PM
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I believe this thread is an example of one of the major problems with the world.

Anyone who supports the lack of truth is silly.

For example, when my wife asks if pants make her look fat, I say, "You aren't fat, get over it."

If she was fat, and she asked me if she looked fat, I would simply ignore her. What's the point in furthering vanity? The little white lie only encourages vanity.

There is no such thing as a lie saving a life. It only postpones the inevitable which occurs with a greater vengeance.

It is fear which causes a lie.

Omission, however, is not a lie. If something need not be said, it need not be said. But if you are going to say anything, say something truthfully. It only takes one lie to ruin your credibility. Others may feel more comfortable around you because they are liars like you, but both of you know that you can trust nobody in this world because you don't know if others are telling the truth or not - because you yourself lie!

But because I choose to be truthful, I am able to discern a few of the honest people I have met. I know who is honest and these are the people I choose to be around.

To live an honest life is a happier life, but it certainly is not an easier one. The world hates the truth and it punishes all who oppose its lies.
edit on 10/7/2010 by TarzanBeta because: wife "asks"



posted on Oct, 7 2010 @ 03:56 PM
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Another personal story:

My son was playing outside (my mom had taken her eyes off him for a second) and he happened to fall while climbing a rock to get away from my 2 dogs that started to fight near him. He slipped and fell off the rock and gashed his head pretty bad. Mom said when she went outside, one of the dogs (12 yr-old Lab mix, mine and his best friend) was licking his head.

After the hospital I asked my son what happened, he told me "your doggy bit me." I asked him over and over, he stuck to it (he was 3).

I asked him "are u sure he wasn't licking you after you fell?"

He said "no he bit me."

At this point I became enraged inside, but calm and cool on the outside. I calmly told him "if my doggy bit you, I am going to kill him."

He looked at the dog, looked down, back at me and back at the dog. I asked him, "did the doggy bite you? Is that why you fell?"

He looked down and said "I fell off the rock when they were fighting, then he started licking me."

The dog lived to be 16.

A few times after that, people would ask him what happened, he would reply "doggy bit me."

Sometimes it is necessary to lie to save a life. If I had killed that dog, he would not have been able to get me out of situations and help me as much as he did. I miss that damn dog everyday.



posted on Oct, 7 2010 @ 07:23 PM
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reply to post by Death_Kron
 


Hi,



Firstly we need to look at the most common reasons human beings lie:

* The most common reason is to avoid getting into trouble or recieving punishment (usually because the individual has done something wrong e.g. broke the law, had the day off work "sick" etc

* I'd say the second common reason people lie is actually laziness. Everyone tells "white" or "little" lies daily, sometimes it's just easier e.g. "Did you ring the garage?", "Yeah I did, no one answered" Note: Do you think "white" lies are acceptable? Or are they just as bad as any other lie?

* Thirdly, many people lie out of kindness and to spare peoples feelings because as they say sometimes the truth hurts and sometimes the opposite i.e. people lie to hurt other peoples feelings...

* Lastly, people lie out of greed; they might have access to materials/information/people etc and want that access all to themselves so they lie. All lies in my opinion are told out of a variation of the four above points. With this in mind, whats your opinions on lying? Is it wrong to lie?


I think we learn to lie from a young age because to some degree it seems to be acceptable behaviour for the vast majority in the world around us.

Personally, I despise any untruth. I live my life in Total Honesty because I don't care what anyone thinks of me.. it simply isn't important what anyone thinks, so I have no need to lie about anything to anyone. This approach oftens causes some problems because I will not accept dishonesty from my interactions with other people. Hence why I only have enough real friends to count on one hand.

Little White Lies are Dishonesty. And we do not have to lower ourselves to lying in any way to anyone for any reason. If you wish to save someone's comfort zone without lying then do not answer the question they asked.. example, "Does my butt look big in this dress?"

The totally honest answer is probably going to be a sound "YES", but most people would be too uncomfortable in answering so honestly. So, in such situations I used to refuse to play that game.. or answer with something like this.."I'm not getting into that with you, you know the answer which is why you are asking me to make you feel better about yourself." That usually goes down about as well as saying Yes it does, but at least I was not Dishonest

I cannot say it is Wrong to Lie. I can say it is not the most effective way to act with any Authenticity. I can say it is not what I want from other people because I will not do the same with them.

For me, dishonesty is the biggest curse a human can live with. My first wife used Dishonesty to Manipulate scenarios to get whatever it was she thought she needed to feel good in life or have some control over everything in her life... that's not unusual, most women and many men do exactly the same.

What I witnessed was something begins with a Lie, and it gets built upon over time.. more lies being needed to cover up other lies, etc. Until they person has created an upside-down pyramid of Lies that teeters in every moment of the day, threatening to fall and expose the Lier for what they are doing. I learned I didn't have to pull out one lie to make the pyramid fall over.. the Lier would always do that for themselves at some stage and are then exposed anyway.

Today I keep to myself most of the time and only associate with Honest people. I do not wish to entertain dishonesty in my world, and so I removed myself from all those who live that way.. I cut friendships of over 25 years when discovering a friends years of lying about things to me. It hurts to do that, but better that than to accept dishonesty in any form.



posted on Oct, 7 2010 @ 11:51 PM
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reply to post by Tayesin
 


my girlfriend: "does my butt look big in these pants?"

me: "to me, or to other people?"

guess where i'm sleeping tonite?

Dishonesty is necessary for self-preservation.



posted on Oct, 8 2010 @ 12:10 AM
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reply to post by Death_Kron
 


If we knowingly lie then we hurt people. Those who do it by habit without thinking anything of it may react differently and there are many who say that it is OK if there is no alternative. but for those who have a "conscience" (guardian angle whispering in the ear" the hurt is tenfold. Yes. It is wrong to lie.

tt



posted on Oct, 8 2010 @ 01:16 AM
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then I ask you

what is wrong and what is right

if you can answer me that, I can reply to your post



posted on Oct, 8 2010 @ 01:26 AM
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Originally posted by I.C. Weiner
reply to post by Tayesin
 


my girlfriend: "does my butt look big in these pants?"

me: "to me, or to other people?"

guess where i'm sleeping tonite?

Dishonesty is necessary for self-preservation.


ha ha ha ha... excellent stuff. When I was married I would look forward to nights on the sofa.. no one to whack me for snoring, no one to lay their legs all over me during sleep and squeeze me to the edge of the bed.. sheer Luxury.. so Enjoy it.



posted on Oct, 8 2010 @ 02:24 AM
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reply to post by Death_Kron
 


Lies = always lie to make people feel good.

Truth - um, that is more difficult.

Anyway; white lies are good.



posted on Oct, 8 2010 @ 02:38 AM
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reply to post by Death_Kron
 





* The most common reason is to avoid getting into trouble or recieving punishment (usually because the individual has done something wrong e.g. broke the law, had the day off work "sick" etc

* I'd say the second common reason people lie is actually laziness. Everyone tells "white" or "little" lies daily, sometimes it's just easier e.g. "Did you ring the garage?", "Yeah I did, no one answered" Note: Do you think "white" lies are acceptable? Or are they just as bad as any other lie?

* Thirdly, many people lie out of kindness and to spare peoples feelings because as they say sometimes the truth hurts and sometimes the opposite i.e. people lie to hurt other peoples feelings...

* Lastly, people lie out of greed; they might have access to materials/information/people etc and want that access all to themselves so they lie.



There’s another... Lying to save lives...

Picture it... Poland 1940... The Nazis knock on your door and ask "Have you seen any Jews around here?"

Do you reply "Yes officer, they are hiding in my loft" ??

Of course not... There are times when you MUST lie.

I guess it all boils down to if you are using a lie for personal gain to escape a crime or error... Or if that lie is a selfless act of bravery to protect others!


People who say that you must NEVER lie have had little life experience or are slightly deluded in my opinion.

Peace




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