Is It Wrong To Lie?

Hello all,

Following on in my little series of moral dilemmas I thought I'd ask a question with regards to a basic human psychological response, one which is as old as mankind itself.

As you all know conspiracies and lying go hand in hand, just for clarity a lie is defined as:

A lie (also called prevarication, falsehood) is a known untruth expressed as truth.

Link: Lie

Thus lying is the process of expressing an untruth as the truth.

Firstly we need to look at the most common reasons human beings lie:

* The most common reason is to avoid getting into trouble or recieving punishment (usually because the individual has done something wrong e.g. broke the law, had the day off work "sick" etc

* I'd say the second common reason people lie is actually laziness. Everyone tells "white" or "little" lies daily, sometimes it's just easier e.g. "Did you ring the garage?", "Yeah I did, no one answered" Note: Do you think "white" lies are acceptable? Or are they just as bad as any other lie?

* Thirdly, many people lie out of kindness and to spare peoples feelings because as they say sometimes the truth hurts and sometimes the opposite i.e. people lie to hurt other peoples feelings...

* Lastly, people lie out of greed; they might have access to materials/information/people etc and want that access all to themselves so they lie.

All lies in my opinion are told out of a variation of the four above points.

With this in mind, whats your opinions on lying? Is it wrong to lie?

Many people on this site believe the Government and TPTB lie to us on a constant basis because they know something we don't or because they have access to things that they are keeping from us, some people believe the Government have alien spacecraft recovered and in storage and some people believe the Government are deliberately putting chemicals into our water supply and not telling us, it goes on and on...

Does anyone on here believe that the Government is actually lying to protect us?

Back to lying in general, is it ever right to lie to people, whats your personal opinions on the subject?

Personally, I hate liars and being lied to, I'd rather someone come up to my face and tell me they don't like me rather than lie and pretend. I guess that's just the character that I have, I very, very rarely lie and when I do it's usually about something extremely important.

Thoughts people?

reply to post by Death_Kron


ok...well....I don't like you! Feel better? jk

um....white lies ..hmmm....To make a person feel a little better?

Yes! If a person who had such a frail perception of themselves and

telling them they looked simply marvelous to brighten their day,

I would consider that white lie likened to a mitzvah (good deed)!

The hard core lies...well that is another story!

Originally posted by KIZZZY
reply to post by Death_Kron

 

ok...well....I don't like you! Feel better?

jk

um....white lies ..hmmm....To make a person feel a little better?

Yes! If a person who had such a frail perception of themselves and

telling them they looked simply marvelous to brighten their day,

I would consider that white lie likened to a mitzvah (good deed)!

The hard core lies...well that is another story!

I don't like you either

Yeah, I understand that telling someone a white lie to make them feel better is well intentioned but take the following scenario:

Person A is feeling down and out, they look shop worn and have a frail perception of themself as you mentioned.

Person B tells Person A a white lie in order to cheer them up.

Person A feels better about themself for a short period of time.

Person C see's Person A and tells them out of worry that he/she looks pretty bad and unhealthy

Person A realises that Person B lied to them.

At this point I'd say that the majority of people would be offended about the fact that Person B lied to them, even though their little white lie was well intentioned.

What do you think?

Henry Rollins is a "Liar", and you might not want to tell him he is wrong for it.

If religion is a lie, it would be wrong and a lie in itself.
So breaking the credo of right and wrong might not matter so much.

It is entirely normal to lie. Most start pretty young.

Hi Death Kron - Thanks for the thread
Lieing can be a complex thing - Yes I believe governments lie I feel that is obvious and is proven.
Do they lie for our own good - Well some politicians may feel we are too immature to know the real truth behind some matters that concern our lifes - Some lie in order to fool us so as to comply to their own selfish agendas.
I like you think truthfullness is the best way even if the truth is not to our liking.
Sometimes certain truths that can not be proven by scientific or other data and is witheld because it would undermine the credibility of a person -
I bet many have truths that can not be conclusively proven - yet it is still truth that is condemned as a lie if you follow me.
So what appears to some to be a lie can in fact be truth
But Yes - I agree truthfullness is the best policy

Originally posted by Death_Kron

Originally posted by KIZZZY
reply to post by Death_Kron

 

ok...well....I don't like you! Feel better?

jk

um....white lies ..hmmm....To make a person feel a little better?

Yes! If a person who had such a frail perception of themselves and

telling them they looked simply marvelous to brighten their day,

I would consider that white lie likened to a mitzvah (good deed)!

The hard core lies...well that is another story!

I don't like you either

Yeah, I understand that telling someone a white lie to make them feel better is well intentioned but take the following scenario:

Person A is feeling down and out, they look shop worn and have a frail perception of themself as you mentioned.

Person B tells Person A a white lie in order to cheer them up.

Person A feels better about themself for a short period of time.

Person C see's Person A and tells them out of worry that he/she looks pretty bad and unhealthy

Person A realises that Person B lied to them.

At this point I'd say that the majority of people would be offended about the fact that Person B lied to them, even though their little white lie was well intentioned.

What do you think?

edit on 7/10/10 by Death_Kron because: spelling

Very good point made. I dont like liars either. We must learn to THINK before we speak

Lying can become a very bad habbit. Some people dont even know they are lying because they have been lying for so long with little white lies.

Which can lead to bigger lies.....

(also star and flag & i like you all, thats the reason i joined ATS, because of the community)

I was married for 8 years to a pathological liar who had narcissistic personality disorder.
I experienced first hand how destructive lying can be.

I made a decision never to lie ever again - not even 'white ones'. I have not told a lie for about 15 years. It is possible for friendships to survive this policy, and true friends respect you for being candid. Sometimes I have refused to answer a question when I know the truth would offend. The person who asked, accepts that I have this reason for refusing to answer and accepts and respects my reasons.

To lie to a person is an insult to their intelligence, since you infer that they cannot cope with truth.

Todays society is conditioned to accept lying as acceptable. The indoctrination of children starts early with 'Father Christmas'.

Never lie to your children

Originally posted by SLaPPiE
Henry Rollins is a "Liar", and you might not want to tell him he is wrong for it.

If religion is a lie, it would be wrong and a lie in itself.
So breaking the credo of right and wrong might not matter so much.

It is entirely normal to lie. Most start pretty young.

I agree that lying is part and parcel of everyday but that doesn't make it right, shouldn't it be entirely normal to simply tell the truth?

reply to post by artistpoet


Ah artistpoet

No problems for the thread, you made some very good points in that post.

Nothing more to add really, I agree with everything you said

reply to post by margaretr


Sorry about your experience, my mother was also in a relationship with a pathological liar, he had all the traits of a psychopath and I mean that in all seriousness.

He even believed his own lies, it was absolute madness.

Funny you should post this, I have been dealing with quite a few liars lately and asked my mom a couple of days ago "Is it ever OK to lie?" - she brought up the same points presented here, and I have one of my own that is actually a personal experience:

A friend and I were playing catch one time in his yard and he had thrown the baseball thru the window. His stepdad ran outside, immediately blamed his stepson and was about to whip him 9 ways from Sunday when I stated it was me who broke the window, it was an accident and my dad would replace it. He told me to be careful next time, went inside and tossed the ball out of the broken window to me and proceeded to patch the window. Later on when I got home I explained to my parents what happened, they said that was nice of me but they could not afford the window so I had to work it off - which I did with the help of my friend.

That story is presented whenever someone asks "is it ever ok to lie?" - it really happened to me.

reply to post by I.C. Weiner


Nice story!

It's definitely a change to here about a lie being used in a positive way and your example is proof that, at times, lying can actually be a good thing when used correctly.

reply to post by Death_Kron


I read all that, honest

I think people often lie out of perceived biological obligations stemming from intracellular communication priorities.

Death_Kron, you are good people, and if anyone tells you any different, they are a better liar than I am!

nice thread,
ET

Originally posted by Death_Kron

Originally posted by KIZZZY
reply to post by Death_Kron

 

ok...well....I don't like you! Feel better?

jk

um....white lies ..hmmm....To make a person feel a little better?

Yes! If a person who had such a frail perception of themselves and

telling them they looked simply marvelous to brighten their day,

I would consider that white lie likened to a mitzvah (good deed)!

The hard core lies...well that is another story!

I don't like you either

Yeah, I understand that telling someone a white lie to make them feel better is well intentioned but take the following scenario:

Person A is feeling down and out, they look shop worn and have a frail perception of themself as you mentioned.

Person B tells Person A a white lie in order to cheer them up.

Person A feels better about themself for a short period of time.

Person C see's Person A and tells them out of worry that he/she looks pretty bad and unhealthy

Person A realises that Person B lied to them.

At this point I'd say that the majority of people would be offended about the fact that Person B lied to them, even though their little white lie was well intentioned.

What do you think?

edit on 7/10/10 by Death_Kron because: spelling

Well I think person C needs a good swift kick in the *** because Person A was feeling

bad enough without person C not "pillowing" her/his words which could really set

person A spiraling!

I think too that person A would recognize person B was trying to be kind and gentle.

If person C behaved like a bull in a china closet telling person A that h/she looked like a large piece of doody!





Tell all the truth
But tell it slant
Success in circuit lies
Too bright for our
infirm delight
The truth superb surprise
As lightning to the children
eased
with explanation kind
The truth must gradually
or every man be blind

reply to post by KIZZZY


I suppose everyone takes thing differently at the end of the day but personally I'd rather be told I was looking bad than have someone lie in an attempt to make me feel better but like I mentioned in my OP that's just the way I am.

I can fully understand why some people don't work like that.

Originally posted by Death_Kron
reply to post by KIZZZY

 

I suppose everyone takes thing differently at the end of the day but personally I'd rather be told I was looking bad than have someone lie in an attempt to make me feel better but like I mentioned in my OP that's just the way I am.

I can fully understand why some people don't work like that.

Well ya see...that's the way you are...but that is not the way everyone is. So...the situation must

be handled accordingly!

And...if I were your friend...I would know that about you and be very happy to tell you that you

looked like a large piece of doody knowing you could handle it!

reply to post by Death_Kron

Originally posted by Death_Kron
...the most common reasons human beings lie:

* ...avoid getting into trouble or recieving punishment...

* ...laziness...

*...out of kindness...

*...out of greed...

Aside form instances of clinical pathology or the intentional desire to commit fraud, I'd say the primary reason people lie is because of fear.

Originally posted by loam
reply to post by Death_Kron

 

Originally posted by Death_Kron
...the most common reasons human beings lie:

* ...avoid getting into trouble or recieving punishment...

* ...laziness...

*...out of kindness...

*...out of greed...

Aside form instances of clinical pathology or the intentional desire to commit fraud, I'd say the primary reason people lie is because of fear.

I agree, fear of:

* getting into trouble

* getting into trouble for being lazy

* getting into trouble for fear of hurting someones feelings

* getting into trouble because someone has what you want solely to yourself

reply to post by Death_Kron


hey hey hey....el WrongO.....no one fears getting into trouble for being kind!

The only fear that person has is for the other persons well-being!

Originally posted by KIZZZY
reply to post by Death_Kron

 

hey hey hey....el WrongO.....no one fears getting into trouble for being kind!

The only fear that person has is for the other persons well-being!

Haha, I suppose it depends on who your being kind to!