Is It Wrong To Lie?

reply to post by Muckster

Your example is of an extreme scenario that few people alive today would have to live through, and thus will not be faced with such a choice. In that example lying or not will not stop the Germans entering your house to search it and maybe shoot you in the process anyway.

Any lies.. even everyone's favourite cop-out.. "the little white lie" is complete Dishonesty. And if we cannot be Honest with Ourselves then we can never live Honestly, at all.

Which means we each have a choice in life. We are Dishonest or we are Honest. There is no in between, no grey areas.. you are either an Honest person or you are a Dishonest person.

I choose Honesty at all times. It's about time we stopped pandering to other people's comfort zones and are thus required to Lie for them.

I'm all for Total Honesty as a way of life, to set the standard for what is acceptable and Dishonesty in any form is not Acceptable to me, not from friends, relatives or myself.

It's really simple to do, although most people are far too afraid of what others think of them, far too afraid of being out of the comfort zone and far too afraid to go it alone if all you find is Dishonesty in everyone you meet.

Dishonesty is a Weakness that needs to be addressed before humanity can move one inch further in it's growth to a higher version of mankind.

reply to post by Death_Kron


There is a time to be assertive, passive or aggressive.

telling the truth could get you killed. Lying might give you time enough to get out of danger ...

Originally posted by Tayesin
reply to post by Muckster

 

Your example is of an extreme scenario that few people alive today would have to live through, and thus will not be faced with such a choice. In that example lying or not will not stop the Germans entering your house to search it and maybe shoot you in the process anyway.

Any lies.. even everyone's favourite cop-out.. "the little white lie" is complete Dishonesty. And if we cannot be Honest with Ourselves then we can never live Honestly, at all.

Which means we each have a choice in life. We are Dishonest or we are Honest. There is no in between, no grey areas.. you are either an Honest person or you are a Dishonest person.

I choose Honesty at all times. It's about time we stopped pandering to other people's comfort zones and are thus required to Lie for them.

I'm all for Total Honesty as a way of life, to set the standard for what is acceptable and Dishonesty in any form is not Acceptable to me, not from friends, relatives or myself.

It's really simple to do, although most people are far too afraid of what others think of them, far too afraid of being out of the comfort zone and far too afraid to go it alone if all you find is Dishonesty in everyone you meet.

Dishonesty is a Weakness that needs to be addressed before humanity can move one inch further in it's growth to a higher version of mankind.

wow...what total bulldinkery is this? lolllllllll

I can see it now....poor guy up on the roof ready to jump whilst

you're all wrapped up in your self-righteousness

not willing to say anything to save that guy just so you can turn around

and tell everyone how wonderful you are!

The guy jumps because of your unwillingness to

say anything.....ANYTHING that will keep him from jumping.

Higher version of mankind? You sunk to the lowest!

You don't have the chutzpah to do the right thing. It's all

about you isn't it? Pontificating bulldinkery at its best!

Sometimes, you have to lie.
The hiding jew in the attic scenario, needs revisited.
Tell the truth ALL the time?
Should the truth be told if YOU are the jew hiding in the attic? Hiding with your loved ones?
Or Should it be told if you are the person answering the door?
Perspective and end result of the truth change by that 180' shift now dont they?
Am I going to tell this lie to an out of control evil maniac or a gentle little child?
Although there are not any brown shirts or SS men currently running neighborhood sweep details, there are still similar scenarios happening around the world daily in villages and towns that we never hear about.
Sometimes you HAVE TO lie, to others.
Honey does my butt look big? Choose your words wisely because the next few hours/days/months are going to happen anyway, and theyre going to be the direct result of what comes out of your mouth.
Does my butt look big?
"Baby your butt looks fantastic"!

Originally posted by KIZZZY
wow...what total bulldinkery is this? lolllllllll

I can see it now....poor guy up on the roof ready to jump whilst

you're all wrapped up in your self-righteousness

not willing to say anything to save that guy just so you can turn around

and tell everyone how wonderful you are!

The guy jumps because of your unwillingness to

say anything.....ANYTHING that will keep him from jumping.

Higher version of mankind? You sunk to the lowest!

You don't have the chutzpah to do the right thing. It's all

about you isn't it? Pontificating bulldinkery at its best!

How did you come to such a conclusion as that?

Who says I won't talk with the man on the roof and assist him to some form of balance?

Who says I would have to Lie to him at all to assist him?

"Tell everyone how wonderful I am"? How do you get that from me not accepting Dishonesty in my life and only choosing to be Honest at all times?

I have no unbalanced ego on this... I am only showing by example a more effective way to live.. what are you doing?

reply to post by HappilyEverAfter


In the scenario offered, a lie will not get anything better than honesty.. the soldiers will enter and search the house and kill anyone they find in there.. along with you anyway.

If you wish to Lie, just don't answer the question... or have the fortitude to stand up and be honest. It is a simple choice to make.

Does my butt look big in this? Why answer what is a loaded question? Why not respond with, "Why are you asking me a loaded question?" That's being honest. Too bad if they don't like it..they didn't think about you liking the loaded question did they? With such a question there is only one right answer and it is 90% of the time a Lie. So why get into that type of drama in the first place?

Honesty doesn't create such Manipulated Dramas, lying and the expectation of the lie does.

Originally posted by Tayesin

Originally posted by KIZZZY

In the scenario offered, a lie will not get anything better than honesty.. the soldiers will enter and search the house and kill anyone they find in there.. along with you anyway.

Youre sure,
I'm not.
I'll take the 50/50 chance.

Most definately! I try hard not to let my ego get the best of me, Most of my friends consider me extremely honest!

Over the past two years I have been on a quest to save my Soul. Seriously! I literally now understand the truth behind Eternal Life, the Balance of Nature itself, and my actualizations surrounding me. Am I complete? No, I am not saying I have even begun in the eyes of others, but I am opened to receive.

One of my first realizations is how detrimental a lie is, even the white lie can create a new Universe if it perpetuated enough; we see this in our False Histories (don't ask which ones because each of us has our own). As I realized how we fabricate every facet of our expressions (title, career, hobbies, interests, dreams) the World around us accommodates us in this vision; good or bad. It is called Manifesting. We simply state a belief and actualize it in our minds then suddenly it is empowered to become real.

Does this mean everyone gets to be a Celebrity? No, but you can be without a doubt! Without the Doubt! Even if it is nothing but a lie it can become reality. Interestingly enough, Society is expressed through the Lies of our Entertainment Industry, through our fabricated Worlds of Drama, Horror, Suspense, or so called "Reality" shows. Yet we rationalize that TV is not real and then we continue to dream of such Lives. No wonder we are stuck in our Soul's momentary state of being (momentary in Time's sake of course).

I now truly believe that there is an alternate Universe effecting us. I believe this Universe can be described in many ways, it is ethereal to us because our Physics are different than those that exist on the "other side". This other Universe can be described more simply as another Dimension of existence, and the veil that resides between us is very thin but not so fragile as it seems. This other dimension is not a void but filled with energies that can act out and can manipulate, as well, this dimension contains energies of a more "comforting" nature which can cause us to be confused as to where they reside.

This is why I believe there are demons in this World. This is why people can become cruel and mean, lost by their own hatreds, and often fooled by their own lies. I call people who have embraced the worst qualities of mankind as "demonized" and I refer to them as "attachments" to those demons from the other side.

So, yeah I sound like a religious nut, but I am nothing but spiritual and I am completely open to the Sciences of Nature herself. The Universe genuinely wants us all to achieve everything our heart's desire. This is why I want to save my Soul, not through others but through myself, and that is why I discovered how detrimental a lie is to the Soul (even the entertainment kind).

Now I find that when I am lied to I have a negative reaction almost immediately, even for the white lies. It doesn't really work via the Internet, and it doesn't work via the Television (Media News, Science), but in person. The simplest lie exposes itself by my internal reaction to it. I now have discovered I am being lied to by everyone. Seriously! Everyone is lying, it just isn't regarding every thing and so the pain it causes is even that much more when the disappointment hits. My gut has caused me to call these people out, even on the little lies, and the reaction has been unbelievable. They either confess or they go deeper and deeper into the lie that the state of denial reeks of "demons". Then I either am respected or I am rejected and although, right now, my level of rejections are far greater and I am experiencing the World in a completely different manner. I am finally beginning to see a Path; something I have been missing for a very long time. I am not saying I am "destined" by this path that is revealing itself, because surrounding me are those who wish to cast their lies within my Reality, so I am barely beginning to accept Truth within my Truthfulness.

I cannot deny others their own Realities that they are creating. I am still a part of the "Big Fat Lie" called Life because there are so many levels of reality within Society and each of us is Manifesting a different World for ourselves, for different reasons, truthfully or not. It is a painful discovery about Lies, and it is Painful to be Honest amongst the Liars.

Life is not your job. Life is not your status, or your experiences, Life is accepting that we are only here for a blink of an eye so ...Please don't lie! Enjoy yourself in this life and give as much as you can. Give outwardly and inwardly but do so with Honesty as your Soul is depending on You and no one else can save your Soul but You; not by associations and not by declarations, we only have this one moment to shine so it should be through honesty, anything less is "Nothingless" to this Universe.

However, I am now certain that the other Universe, the other Dimension is more than happy to include our Souls, albeit a bit fiery and painful. Considering this thought alone prevents me from lying and if I catch myself embellishing anything I stop and correct it and bring it back down to Earth, because here is our Real Reality, no matter how painful it may seem.

reply to post by Death_Kron


lying is wrong when it comes in the form of "bearing false witness against" somebody. false witness is a mallicious kind of lying that basically does violence on someone's life, liberty, property, reputation etc. telling someone they look good in a dress when they really look like a walrus in a dress is not bearing false witness against them. telling a judge or potential customers that a coffee shop owner pees in their coffee pots is bearing false witness and a sin, because it is manipulating the truth to do violence on them.

Originally posted by Death_Kron

As you all know conspiracies and lying go hand in hand

this is, of course, bs. conspiracies are built on the incongruity of available 'facts'. lying leads to unhinged fantasies, not debatable theories.

Originally posted by Tayesin

Originally posted by KIZZZY
wow...what total bulldinkery is this? lolllllllll

I can see it now....poor guy up on the roof ready to jump whilst

you're all wrapped up in your self-righteousness

not willing to say anything to save that guy just so you can turn around

and tell everyone how wonderful you are!

The guy jumps because of your unwillingness to


say anything.....ANYTHING that will keep him from jumping.

Higher version of mankind? You sunk to the lowest!

You don't have the chutzpah to do the right thing. It's all

about you isn't it? Pontificating bulldinkery at its best!

How did you come to such a conclusion as that?

Who says I won't talk with the man on the roof and assist him to some form of balance?

Who says I would have to Lie to him at all to assist him?

"Tell everyone how wonderful I am"? How do you get that from me not accepting Dishonesty in my life and only choosing to be Honest at all times?

I have no unbalanced ego on this... I am only showing by example a more effective way to live.. what are you doing?

reply to post by HappilyEverAfter

 

In the scenario offered, a lie will not get anything better than honesty.. the soldiers will enter and search the house and kill anyone they find in there.. along with you anyway.

If you wish to Lie, just don't answer the question... or have the fortitude to stand up and be honest. It is a simple choice to make.

Does my butt look big in this? Why answer what is a loaded question? Why not respond with, "Why are you asking me a loaded question?" That's being honest. Too bad if they don't like it..they didn't think about you liking the loaded question did they? With such a question there is only one right answer and it is 90% of the time a Lie. So why get into that type of drama in the first place?

Honesty doesn't create such Manipulated Dramas, lying and the expectation of the lie does.

edit on 8-10-2010 by Tayesin because: (no reason given)

The scenario was already given to you. This is not according to you or what scenario you paint but a under a

circumstance where some quick thinking and fibs would have to be told to get this person off the roof!

Primary objective is getting the person not to jump and getting that

person safely off the roof and THEN this person would be under the auspices of

A PROFESSIONAL!





Go sell your kool-aid to someone who is willing to buy it!

What I think is the most ironic thing about this thread is that people will come up with all manner of excuses to excuse themselves from their own dishonesty. It's hilarious...

Because you all want to make others feel bad because you yourself are guilty - and some combat the guilt they feel inside by lying to themselves.

This is why everyone in this thread who supported lying in any way, shape, or form will never be taken seriously by me again. You can tell the truth, you can say a good thing, you can do a good thing, but I will not believe you ever until you admit that lying is wrong.

I hope many others understand the reason for separating from liars... because liars are manipulators and understand not the vanity of hunger, the vanity of pride, the vanity of life. Live life truthfully and you will succeed. It is a test that causes you to lie in the face of fear. IT is a test that causes you to lie to save another person...because it WILL NOT SAVE THAT PERSON. You are a fool to think so.

Giggle to yourselves and laugh and mock others and claim they are immature for not having been in a true situation to understand the saving grace of a lie... you only lie to yourselves and the TRUTH mocks you!

Originally posted by TarzanBeta
What I think is the most ironic thing about this thread is that people will come up with all manner of excuses to excuse themselves from their own dishonesty. It's hilarious...

Because you all want to make others feel bad because you yourself are guilty - and some combat the guilt they feel inside by lying to themselves.

This is why everyone in this thread who supported lying in any way, shape, or form will never be taken seriously by me again. You can tell the truth, you can say a good thing, you can do a good thing, but I will not believe you ever until you admit that lying is wrong.

I hope many others understand the reason for separating from liars... because liars are manipulators and understand not the vanity of hunger, the vanity of pride, the vanity of life. Live life truthfully and you will succeed. It is a test that causes you to lie in the face of fear. IT is a test that causes you to lie to save another person...because it WILL NOT SAVE THAT PERSON. You are a fool to think so.

Giggle to yourselves and laugh and mock others and claim they are immature for not having been in a true situation to understand the saving grace of a lie... you only lie to yourselves and the TRUTH mocks you!

Yeah....you would give up the hiding place of a Jew in WWII to save your own neck!

That speaks volumes about you now doesn't it!

reply to post by Greensage


That's your problem! You want to project your problem on others

that's your business!

Originally posted by obamuh

Originally posted by Death_Kron

As you all know conspiracies and lying go hand in hand

this is, of course, bs. conspiracies are built on the incongruity of available 'facts'. lying leads to unhinged fantasies, not debatable theories.

A conspiracy is a secret act, usually disguised as something else, hence a lie...

Originally posted by KIZZZY
reply to post by Greensage

 

That's your problem! You want to project your problem on others

that's your business!

You are not being very forthright in your opinion. Why do you say this? Can you elaborate?

Originally posted by KIZZZY

The scenario was already given to you. This is not according to you or what scenario you paint but a under a

circumstance where some quick thinking and fibs would have to be told to get this person off the roof!

Primary objective is getting the person not to jump and getting that

person safely off the roof and THEN this person would be under the auspices of

A PROFESSIONAL!





Go sell your kool-aid to someone who is willing to buy it!

Sorry, but I fail to see why any Lie would need to be told in order to assist this person on the roof in the scenario you gave me.

In fact it was you who claimed I would ignore them and sing my own praise instead. Which is the farthest thing from what I would do in that exact situation.

While not educated to be a Counsellor, I have worked many years offering Spiritual Counsel, and was fortunate enough to be the kind of person everyone goes to for advice since I was in my teens.. so long ago now, lol.

So my first step in the scenario you offered would be to find a position where I could talk with the person threatening to jump.

Such aggression from you...it's okay, most Newbies take time to learn manners, and, what cool-aid would that be?

What I see in this thread is so many people attempting to Justify their own Dishonesty by providing ridiculously extreme scenarios as having the need to Lie. Yet why not offer every day scenarios where we can see the levels of Honesty and Dishonesty.

Give me one Honest person, and I'll show you a well balanced and deeply caring human being.

Originally posted by Tayesin

Originally posted by KIZZZY

The scenario was already given to you. This is not according to you or what scenario you paint but a under a

circumstance where some quick thinking and fibs would have to be told to get this person off the roof!

Primary objective is getting the person not to jump and getting that

person safely off the roof and THEN this person would be under the auspices of

A PROFESSIONAL!





Go sell your kool-aid to someone who is willing to buy it!

Sorry, but I fail to see why any Lie would need to be told in order to assist this person on the roof in the scenario you gave me.

In fact it was you who claimed I would ignore them and sing my own praise instead. Which is the farthest thing from what I would do in that exact situation.

While not educated to be a Counsellor, I have worked many years offering Spiritual Counsel, and was fortunate enough to be the kind of person everyone goes to for advice since I was in my teens.. so long ago now, lol.

So my first step in the scenario you offered would be to find a position where I could talk with the person threatening to jump.

Such aggression from you...it's okay, most Newbies take time to learn manners, and, what cool-aid would that be?

What I see in this thread is so many people attempting to Justify their own Dishonesty by providing ridiculously extreme scenarios as having the need to Lie. Yet why not offer every day scenarios where we can see the levels of Honesty and Dishonesty.

Give me one Honest person, and I'll show you a well balanced and deeply caring human being.

Yeah, a self-appointed guru...figures!

I gave you a scenario.....to tell a fib to save someone from jumping off a roof....or not to tell the fib...

This fib would entail saving a person's LIFE.....

You opted not to fib to save his life! In turn the guy jumps.

You do whatever you CAN DO to stop someone from killing themselves, in this scenario, from

jumping off a roof. The jumper is handed over to the PROFESSIONALS! That fib was a

"mitzvah". Whether it goes against a person's grain or not is not the point!

You do what you must do in a set of circumstances! The right thing to do! The white lie

was the right thing to do knowing full well this person would in turn be handed over

to a Professional Psychiatrist who is equipped to counsel and evaluate this person.

Timing in these circumstances is of the essence!

White lie below:

What if that person has you in confidence and makes you swear that you will not tell anyone how they are feeling? Do you keep that confidence? NO! Would you be a lousy friend, mother, etc. if you broke that confidence? NO! Suicidal discussion automatically ends confidentiality.


www.mental-health-today.com...

To you who judge and say you never lie,
I call you liars !
Impossible, totally impossible, NEVER is a very long time.
If this is about being honest, then YOU, are not.