Muslim women protest against push to ban burka in Australia

Originally posted by spec_ops_wannabe
Being an American who does like to see somebody fight the good fight, I do have to ask though. Where does this fall under the Australian Constitution? Basically I'd like to see someone do some analysis on this if they could simply because I see a lot of people go about the US Constitution the law of the land where it has no actual authority.
In simple, educate me please. I'd like to see what powers the GoA has and doesn't possess.

The Australian constitution has no bearing on the rights of individuals - it sets out the rights of the states and as a consequence the rights of individuals as citizens of the states thereof. Australia has no bill of rights, no human rights and basically no rights are conferred on us other than legislation, tort law and to a small degree international agreements.

The question to be answered here is to what extent do we tolerate religious extremism in our societies. What do we tolerate ?

Do we tolerate anonymity in public ? What about large Koalas raising money in suits ?

Do we tolerate stoning people for adultery ?

Do we tolerate Nuns in habits ?

Wearing a religious symbol is of no consequence - wearing a disguise and mask in public is of consequence. The simple fact is that no one is stopping anyone from wearing a Burkha - wear it all you want - just don't conceal your identity in public areas where it poses a threat or where identity is called for such as in a court of law, identifying yourself to police, in banks, or any other private business which requires identity.

Why insist on anonymity and then refuse to accept social norm of being part of the public sphere. IF you wish to isolate yourself from a society which values public participation, openness and IDENTITY that is your business - but insisting that everyone else abandon their ideals and social structures in order to accommodate your own is unfair.

For example - what of a religion which insisted on collective punishment ? Are we all to accept the punishment for crimes of others in order appease a religious doctrine ? What if our elected Prime Minister were to wear a veil ? How would we know who was even representing us - it could be a different person every day.

There is a time and a place where we all must meet the standards society expects of us and our own personal, religious, moral beliefs do not supersede that - we do not masturbate in public, we all do it - its part of our culture - but we do not do it in public out of respect for others. We do not piss wherever our fancy takes us out of respect for each other. We do not rob, steal, rape or even speak to loudly, walk to briskly, fight or anything else which may cause offence to others because we are part of a community - a society. Wearing a Burkha is in direct contradiction to a free and open society and takes advantage of our tolerance and freedom in order to impose what is a direct contradiction to our very way of life.

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by InfaRedMan

 

Well I'm sure that the mini skirt is banned in Islamic countries so it all evens out in the end Ooze! No mini-skirts in Islamic countries and no burqas in Western countries. Fair is fair right. Muslims can't have it both ways.

IRM

This is not about Islamic countries, this is about Australia..

Supposed Islamic countries can do what ever they want, they are controlled by Western puppets anyways, for you to allow this fornication on freedom because of what Islamic countries are up to, is really demeaning to the freedom Westerners have been bragging about for the past 9 years.

That's why the imams in Australia complain about the way our women dress right... because they want to enjoy our Australian freedoms? Give me a break Ooze! It's because they want to implement Sharia law in our country, and no, this isn't my point of view, this is fact right from the horses mouth!

And yes, what Islamic countries are up to is completely relevant in this discussion because they don't integrate as well as other cultures and wish to bring that which is done in the homeland from which they fled, here.

I'm a Muslim too you know..

You know I know that Ooze! I've participated in most of your threads mate. I still remember the last one vividly where you proclaimed that Islam is the best form of democracy right! So keeping that in mind, can you tell me if you would prefer Sharia in our countries? It sure seems like it which would validate exactly what i was saying above!

Next thing you know, you will ask women to not cover their hands and feet, and next thing you know, your extremists will beat up women who don't wear mini-skirts, bikinis and bras in public lol

No.. your confusing your Islamic mentality with ours. That's how you cats deal with things. Not us!

You get where I'm going with this?

I do! Just more agenda based posting from my good man Ooze!

IRM

Originally posted by q_ball


This is a clear attack on our liberties. People should be able to wear what they want and this is clear discrimination. If they can regulate this, they can regulate people who have piercings in their noses or all over their faces, tatoos, they type of eccentric hair they have and any thing else they see fit. I love also how they call any activist group ''hard lined'...Absoluate propagated rubbish!

www.news.com.au
(visit the link for the full news article)

Here's a thing for ya Islamic apologists

They should follow the countries laws if they don't like it they can go back where they came from middle east.

People who are supporting and pushing burka really tells me you want to live in the dark ages
rather then see pretty women like this










Our liberties didn't say cover your wives up with the burkas

Explanation: S&F!

@ spec_ops_wannabe [St*r for you! ]

Here... The Australian Constitution [aph.gov.au]

Commonwealth Of Australia Constitution Act
Chapter I. The Parliament.
Part V - Powers of the Parliament
51.The Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws for the peace, order, and good government of the Commonwealth with respect to: -
[Edited by OL to redact unrequired text]
(xxvi.) The people of any race, for whom it is deemed necessary to make special laws:

Personal Disclosure: Here is both my previous and my current position on this issue...

Police: Man ran down 'too Westernized' daughter (thread by HunkaHunka, post by OmegaLogos) [ATS]

Explanation: Banning clothes isn't going to solve the problem! Relentlessly combating the scumbags who caused the problem in the 1st place and or who continue to support its continuance would be far more effective!

Personal Disclosure: I was feeling quite bigoted one day [cronulla riots some time back] and I was contemplating the attitude that promotes the enforced wearing of this type of full covering attire and my filthy crass male white western mind came up with a compromise that we can all be happy with. 100% transparent [i.e. see thru] Organza fabric burkas and hajibs. The prudish religous zealots should be all cool..after all it is full head to toe covering! The women should be happy as organza comes in many colours and is quite stylish! And finally the rest of us can enjoy these womens beautiful faces and gorgeous curves and bumps! I was raised on "I Dream of Genie!" and I'm still waiting for that kind of fashion to take off!

P.S. I have a saying that goes "Modest Women Make Me Horny!". Lets see how the prudes deal with that!

If Australian politicians are too afraid to deal with the burqua issue for fear of repise then we as Australians can fast track the process by taking it upon ourselves as a people of the free world to stop serving these burqua wearing women (and their husbands who are almost always with them) in all our retail outlets, financial institutions, etc. We, as retailers, do have a legal right deny service to any person we choose as we see fit.

We also have a legal right to place signs upon our shop doors no bike helmets or any other form of face covering. If banks can do it, so can we.

Why don't they protest the stoning of women?
Why don't they protest the honor killings?
Why don't they protest the women that raise their kids to be suicide bombers?

The original post is about the protest against any push towards banning the Burka. Nothing wrong with that you can protest in public or wherever its a free country.

I believe eventually it will be banned in steps security issues will see to that. it will be tough for those who are here already and have to change but easy for those wishing to come to Australia - they can choose to stay away.

Once we have security issues breached by the Burka it will come to a head - one day.

For example what about someone robbing a bank protected by the Burka or a criminal on the run dressing in a Burka or someone who has lost their driving licence using someone else's licence and what about ID photos.

You see it will be easy to make a decision to ban the Burka once the reason to do so outweighs the resistance.

reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter


More than half of the burqua wearing women are Caucasian who converted to Islam. Perhaps they need a sense of identity to convience their in-laws they are serious about their conversion and feel they need to try harder than a women born in to Islam?

Fact is, of all the Caucasian burqua wearing women I have met personally do come across to me as psychologically weak, lack substance, have no self esteem, can't find a suitable partner, so converts and the imran sets them up with a husband - almost always not home grown but from foreign Islamic lands - and you don't want to look sideways at those husbands either, they look like a pretty nasty piece of work. May I also add, almost all of these Caucasian women have cut ties with their families or vice virser.

I suggest when you see these mixed marriage couples out in broad daylight....watch the body language of both spouses. It's interesting to say the least.

reply to post by majestictwo


Thats already happened at least 3 times I know of here in Australia where the burqua has been used in armed robberies.

Originally posted by zvezdar

Originally posted by CynicalM

They can try all they like but Aussies will never put up with it..

Have to disagree here, because most Aussies are too laid back and just accept what comes. Its one of the reasons the politicians here can get away with the waste and rubbish without major protests or action. It takes a proper breaking point for anyone to act, and even then its a minority that does so (see the Cronulla riots as an example).

So, tell me what and why the Cronulla Riots happened???? Because I would REALLY love to hear what you have to say about it. Will be interesting to hear what you have to say.

And mods, I know it might be derailing the thread a bit, but there is a reason. Just let it run for a bit, and you will see why.

reply to post by TerribleTeam2


The Cronulla Riots did not reflect the attitudes and behaviour of most Australians. While even the majority of Australians are suspicious of Muslims in general, most would not take such Extreme actions that involves violence and excessive Religious Intolerance. This is not to say those participating in a PROTEST of sorts did not have valid reasons for doing so - many feel they did. The thing is how they went about it was in many ways against the Australian spirit of giving everyone a fair go. When innocent people are being attacked due to guilt by association, that becomes problematic. That is my opinion on those events.

Originally posted by q_ball
If they can regulate this, they can regulate people who have piercings in their noses or all over their faces, tatoos, they type of eccentric hair they have and any thing else they see fit.

True.

But because those things don't interfere with facial recognition software, they probably won't bother.

Originally posted by spec_ops_wannabe


There is a time and a place where we all must meet the standards society expects of us and our own personal, religious, moral beliefs do not supersede that - we do not masturbate in public, we all do it - its part of our culture - but we do not do it in public out of respect for others. We do not piss wherever our fancy takes us out of respect for each other. We do not rob, steal, rape or even speak to loudly, walk to briskly, fight or anything else which may cause offence to others because we are part of a community - a society. Wearing a Burkha is in direct contradiction to a free and open society and takes advantage of our tolerance and freedom in order to impose what is a direct contradiction to our very way of life.

Equating the wearing of a burka to masturbation, pissing in the street, robbery and rape ... No there's no racism in these remarks alrighty, you're after all just a concerned citizen wanting to live in a 'free' and 'open' society. This is simply a feeble and thinly disguised attempt at rationalising your own hatred and nothing more.

reply to post by InfaRedMan


I like you infraredman . What we western women need is our men standing up against these lusty muslim men in our country harrassing the women. These cultures of the Islamic nations are pure LUST based and they behave like animals towards women. You all must become men and stop them now before our society is lost to pure degradation of the muslim lust orientated mindset.
A mans duty isto protect the women folk from lusty men in their culture . why because thats what THEY are as you say. We have not needed to remain stagnant in our victorian dress codes, purely because we have evolved into a mature society that does not have to grope and rape every women they see , even their mothers in sisters in that Muslim primative world.
Im am not refering to well educated higher class , spiritual islamic sects like the Sufis , but to the primitive lust based cultures of islam that has been allowed to enter the western countries by our stupid blind ignorant politicians.

reply to post by InfaRedMan


you bring a very important point that many try to avoid or just doesn't understand.

Any religion that comes uninvited into a foreign country from a country that is widely practice from government to sub-servants and then try to change the laws already established in the country they are invading with their own is very serious warning to the country citizens about the true intentions of a religion like Islam

It's another flag that Islam will never accept the country they are invading as immigrants laws and will try in every way they can to impose their own.

Islam is a law practice by those that follow the Islamic faith why is people so hard to understand the meaning of this.

Islam is not a faith religion of peace and never will be their Islamic laws shows that is not such thing as a moderate Islamic follower because they have to obey their own laws and is not such thing as a variation or denomination of Islam either.

religion in general is just evil...it only ever has and only ever will cause trouble.

this..like most things is just another argument with religion at the source.

the sooner religion disappears the better

reply to post by Silicis n Volvo


That is no going to happen anytime soon, because the true power of religion is subjugation of the masses, that is why religion in the world became so popular by those that knows how to do the manipulations, but as people become educated and more secure of themselves they are starting to stray away from what is religious believes even if they still call themselves believers.

reply to post by Dark Ghost


You're right. The innocent people that got attacked that day in no way shape or form deserved the treatment they got. In no way did they deserve it.

The problem though, I can tell you now, is that "westies" as they are known, would come to Cronulla, and cause problems, from harrassing the locals, to starting fights and stealing #. Every single weekend during summer this would happen, leading up to the riots. I can tell you now that this is all fact mate. I have no reason to lie, because I have lived here in Cronulla my whole life, and seen it happen with my own eyes. My parents saw it happen with their own eyes when they were growing up. When my parents were growing up here, it was the Italians and Greeks, the "wogs". And while I was growing up, and even now to some extent (although after the riots, the # that happened stopped on a big scale), it's the Lebanese and other Middle Easteners.

And to be honest again, I can tell you now, that this was BOUND to happen. Because people would follow it up to the cops (the Station is literally about 300 metres from the beach), and nothing could be done at the end of the day, because the cops had their hands tied. They knew that most of the time it was the "westies", but by the time anything COULD be done, they were usually gone. Sure, some of them got done by the cops, but a great deal of them got away.

Now, over a long period of time, wouldn't you agree, with this things continually happened, something was bound to snap? As I said, what happened was atrocious, but it was bound to happen because the locals here got jack of it. Enough was enough, and the riots happened. Which honestly really was a shame. But I can also tell you now, that the people that now come to Cronulla cause less trouble after what happened.

I'll leave you with a case in point, that happened to a couple of mates of mine. They had just been to the movies up at Cronulla Mall, which is between the Police Station and North Cronulla Beach. Now remember, this is a distance of 300 metres MAXIMUM. Anyways, they walked down the stairs to the mall, where about 7 Asian blokes were standing.

Anyways, as my mates came down (there was 4 of my mates in total), these 7 Asian guys start yelling at them "WHAT THE # ARE YOU DOING HERE??? THIS IS OUR TURF! WHY THE # ARE YOU ON OUR TURF???" Now in this area, everyone knows everyone pretty much, either directly, or through friends, or just through plain old surfing. Anyways, nobody knew who these guys were, who were claiming that it was "their turf". My mates said to them "what the hell, who are you lot? We have lived here our whole lives and never seen you here once."

Anyways, threats were thrown around, which lead to my mates telling them to come down the beach to sort it out. The guys turned up about 20 minutes later with literally 20 of their Asian friends in tow. What they didnt realise was that my mates KNEW that about 20 of their Maori and Islander mates were down the beach. Needless to say, the Asian guys were destroyed pretty much. Just so happened that the cops were going past when it happened. They came over, took statements, and the Asian blokes were arrested, along with 1 or 2 of the locals. Turns out the guys who were claiming to have owned the "turf" that my mates seemed to be invading were, you guessed it, Westies.

Now I know what happened wasnt right, but at times, there has to be some enforcing going on. It's a necessary evil. Honestly, if I went to anyone elses home town and started mouthing off like that, I would expect to get the # kicked out of me. Just because of the fact that I'm not a local, and it's just plain old disrespect and discourtesy.

And also, I can tell you, that when the locals here act like that, they get whipped back into line as well. At the end of the day, its about respecting where people live. You may not agree with it, and I completely understand why, but having seen what goes on, sometimes it has to be done because the Police's hands are tied.

I honestly wished that the Cronulla Riots didnt happen. Because it was disgraceful. But something had to give, and the end result ended up being the Cronulla Riots.

Edit to add:- The ironic thing about the riots was that there were an absolute HEAP of people involved that didn't even live in Cronulla and the surrounding areas. Alot of the Bra Boys (anyone that doesnt know who they are, they are a Surf Gang from Maroubra, in the Eastern Suburbs of Sydney), and some Bikies came in too. Shame the media didn't bother reporting THAT little fact on the nightly news.

reply to post by Kailassa


I'm a Muslim, please don't put your BS on me..

Don't go around saying what Muslims do and what they want to do. I don't control women, nor do I want to control them. If my sisters want to be sluts, that is up to them, if they don't, that is up to them, if they want to wear burqahs, that is up to them, if they want to wear mini-skirts, that is up to them. I'm in no position to judge them, I can only advice them, only god can judge.

*snip*

reply to post by Silicis n Volvo


Would you say that about the Amish as well?