Muslim women protest against push to ban burka in Australia

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by Kailassa

 

Don't go around saying what Muslims do and what they want to do. I don't control women, nor do I want to control them. If my sisters want to be sluts, that is up to them, if they don't, that is up to them, if they want to wear burqahs, that is up to them, if they want to wear mini-skirts, that is up to them. I'm in no position to judge them, I can only advice them, only god can judge.

Oozy i've noticed in a few of your posts that you refer to some women as 'sluts' - not to take you out of context here, but do you refer to women who DON'T wear the burka as sluts? Because what i'm detecting from a few of your posts are that women are either sluts or not sluts.

There is no middle ground?

Honestly - if a girl decided to wear a short skirt or a summer dress and revealed her back and legs (like i'd say about 70% of western women do) - in your eyes, do you view this as slutty behaviour?

I'm beginning to think the draconian Islamic nonsense of women covering their body is more down to insecurity from the men which is forced onto the women, so much so that certain muslim women demand to wear the burka.

I offer a simple solution:

Instead of demanding that all women get covered up from head to toe, why not instead just blindfold the muslim men?

reply to post by mr-lizard


Is not draconian only, but that is the Islamic interpretation of laws something that it can not be changed, the same way that women regardless of what they preach in the US about Islam been a religion of equality is nothing but lies, women are second class citizens.

Like I said Islam practiced in Islamic nations is the same intolerant Islam that they are practicing anywhere they go, it doesn't change and it never will because Islam their law.

reply to post by mr-lizard

Honestly - if a girl decided to wear a short skirt or a summer dress and revealed her back and legs (like i'd say about 70% of western women do) - in your eyes, do you view this as slutty behaviour?

Don't play games with me, read my comments, it says exactly what it says. How in god's name did you come to that conclusion, here is a definition of slut:

adulteress: a woman adulterer

wordnetweb.princeton.edu...

I said I'm a Muslim, my sisters can do what ever they like, I can only advice them, I can't judge them, how in god's name... ohh forget it..

reply to post by TerribleTeam2


Fair enough, I can appreciate where you are coming from. I remember at the time many people I talked to said they didn't agree with the method, but they could sympathise with the reasons why this was happening. As you implied, there is only so much one can take before they snap and lose their calm. People living in the areas affected were not being listened to and the riots were kind of inevitable as a result.

reply to post by Dark Ghost


Bingo. Spot on. It's also rather annoying that at no point, did the Media actually cover the fact that there were a fair few people involved that weren't even locals. But the Media wouldn't want to cover anything like that, because it doesn't sell airtime or adspace.

At the time, my now ex-fiancee (as of last week) was scared #less, and heavily pregnant. She was worried something was going to happen to her. And she has to be one of the whitest people you would meet. To be honest, when she was telling me this (as my mate was driving us through the rather large crowd), I just laughed and told her that she wouldn't be touched, because if anyone DID, they were effectively signing their own Death Warrants. Hell, we walked back from the RSL to where we were living at the time, and people would ask how she was, and move out of the way for her. The look on her face was priceless. I think she was truely shocked that with all that was going on, people would actually stop and ask how she was doing and ask if she needed any help.

But according to the Media, people don't wanna hear about things like that, they just wanna hear about the bad stuff that happens every day.

I have no issues with the head scarffe that muslim women wear. It is their right to do so. It becomes an issue though when it is a full burqua which covers all features except a slot for the eyes like a letter box or bush ranger Ned Kelly. Then it is an issue of security once they step out in public and something any member of society considering doing something illegal may take advantage of.
We need to stop tip towing around the subject and making it an issue of race or religion, they are even getting license photos where all you can see is their eyes, therefore that license should be automatically void as it has no real features showing that it is that person, a security issue once again.
They need to respect the rules and policies of our government just as we would have to in their country if we are ever going to get along, otherwise it will be an ongoing battle.
Multicultural Australia can only work if people are willing to conform and make lifestyle adjustments for the greater good of our wonderful country we all love so deeply. If you aren't willing to do that for the country you love you should reconsider your position here in the first place.

Click here for more information.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by oozyism


You must have missed this one Ooze!

Iran: Pregnant woman to be stoned to death

That's a big glass house you live in Ooze! There's your best democracy in the world in action mate!

IRM

reply to post by InfaRedMan


You have been eating a little too many BS there mate, when I smell BS, I try hard not to eat it, even though they are trying to force us to eat them, it is alright

"Stoning has been dropped from the penal code for a long time, and in the Islamic republic, we do not see such punishments being carried out"

en.wikipedia.org...

Sorry mate, not everyone eats BS:

further adding that if stoning sentences were passed by lower courts, they were over-ruled by higher courts and "no such verdicts have been carried out."

en.wikipedia.org...

Sorry mate, not everyone takes the Western propaganda literally, they actually see the reporting and are smart enough to extract the truth from the falsehood.

You probably missed the US sentencing of a US mentally retarded lady to death by injection, due to adultery lol. Based on your argument ofcours, only naive people would believe that:

As The Washington Post reported, Ms. Lewis’s supporters, “have argued that she does not deserve to die because she is borderline mentally retarded and was manipulated by a much smarter conspirator. They say it is unfair that Lewis was sentenced to death while the two men who fired the shots received life sentences.”

thelede.blogs.nytimes.com...

She didn't kill anyone, she was sentenced to death because of adultery lol let's see if you can extract the truth from falsehood my brave Australian friend

Ms. Lewis admitted that she had conspired with the two accomplices who shot and killed her husband and stepson in 2002. One of them was her lover at the time.

thelede.blogs.nytimes.com...

Yup, she was sentenced to death because of adultery

Originally posted by oozyism
You have been eating a little too many BS there mate, when I smell BS, I try hard not to eat it,

I guess that means that sometimes you do eh Ooze! You know... try as you do! That's some truly weird gastronomic practices mate... On Topic...

Yet Sakineh Mohammadi Ashtiani, an Iranian woman convicted of adultery who already received the punishment of 99 lashes, was recently sentenced to death by stoning. Due to an international outcry, the sentence was later changed to hanging; the execution has now been suspended, though it is uncertain for how long.[32]

Source

So if us westerners hadn't of made such a noise about it (include me as one of the people that formally protested) the wording of this article suggests it's likely the sentence would have been carried out. The outcry certainly didn't come from Islam. In any case, they downgraded her sentence to hanging for her mild transgression. How humanitarian. Sure it's been suspended but only until international focus is off Iran. It's a political PR exercise and nothing more.

Stoning is not practiced in Iran you said?

Man Stoned To Death In Iran For Adultery
Asked whether he could confirm that a man charged with adultery was stoned to death in the northern city of Rasht during the Iranian month that ended on March 20, judiciary spokesman Alireza Jamshidi told a news conference:

"What you said about stoning is correct. But the woman repented.... Among the instances in which the sentence is not performed is when there is a repentance by the individual involved."

Iranian media said the executed man was 30 years old.

According to Iran's Islamic Penal Code, men convicted of adultery should be buried up to their waists and women up to their chests for stoning. Stones used should not be large enough to kill the person immediately.

In January, Jamshidi said two men convicted of adultery were stoned to death the previous month in the northeastern city of Mashhad, but a third convicted man escaped while the punishment was being carried out.

Source

I don't know about eating the BS Oooze... but it sure appears your sipping at the Kool-Aid. Imams and Mufti's think they're above the law in Iran and especially in rural areas, they do as they please and carry out punishments as they please according to their own personal interpretations of Sharia and the Hadith.

Shall I dig up more recent cases for you?

IRM

reply to post by q_ball


I think it is discrimination.They wear them because of their religion and were brought up to always wear them when in public just like a few other religious groups wear only clothes that cover all bare skin other than their faces and arms.I hope this ban does not go through.

It was interesting when feminists tried to picture Muslim women as oppressed by having a burka (or fully-clothed from head to toe) before. Now, I guess those previous allegations are gone after the Muslims are fighting for their burkas. This just shows that outsiders shouldn't interfere with others' culture no matter how "oppressive" they look from the outside.

Originally posted by KrillsAngelWings
reply to post by q_ball

 

I think it is discrimination.They wear them because of their religion

No they don't. That's a common mistake. The burqa is not a religious garment at all. It is a cultural/traditional garment! There is no passage within the Quran that demands women should wear the burqa. In fact there's no mention of the 'burqa' at all.

The Quran has always been interpreted and enforced in a fashion that solely serves the interests of men. Islam, like many religions, is patriarchal. When woman are pressured into wearing the burqa and assuming a subordinate role from childhood, they become indoctrinated and think nothing of it. In fact, they come to accept it as being normal and just... because they know no different. They sympathise with their oppressors.. in a similar fashion to Stockholm Syndrome.

IRM

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter

 

More than half of the burqua wearing women are Caucasian who converted to Islam. Perhaps they need a sense of identity to convience their in-laws they are serious about their conversion and feel they need to try harder than a women born in to Islam?

Fact is, of all the Caucasian burqua wearing women I have met personally do come across to me as psychologically weak, lack substance, have no self esteem, can't find a suitable partner, so converts and the imran sets them up with a husband - almost always not home grown but from foreign Islamic lands - and you don't want to look sideways at those husbands either, they look like a pretty nasty piece of work. May I also add, almost all of these Caucasian women have cut ties with their families or vice virser.

I suggest when you see these mixed marriage couples out in broad daylight....watch the body language of both spouses. It's interesting to say the least.

This is just one more way for Muslim guys to gain residency in Australia. There is often money involved for the girl, but they soon realise a few thousand for that was not worth it.

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by Kailassa

 

I'm a Muslim, please don't put your BS on me..

Don't go around saying what Muslims do and what they want to do.

I guess I shouldn't listen to the Muslim women I know either.
I've several times had to help Muslim women escape from fathers of husbands who they had been frequently beaten and threatened by. Luckily we have a safe house system set up.

I don't control women, nor do I want to control them. If my sisters want to be sluts, that is up to them, if they don't, that is up to them, if they want to wear burqahs, that is up to them, if they want to wear mini-skirts, that is up to them. I'm in no position to judge them, I can only advice them, only god can judge.

People like you make me sick, because you just a tool!!!

And to think this is your self description, put forward to justify yourself ...
Thanks for giving an illustration of what most Muslim guys in Australia are like these days.

It's strange how Muslim men are so hung up on the idea of women being sluts, but feel ogling, groping and rape are justified.

Muslim leader blames women for sex attacks

THE nation's most senior Muslim cleric has blamed immodestly dressed women who don't wear Islamic headdress for being preyed on by men and likened them to abandoned "meat" that attracts voracious animals.

While not specifically referring to the rapes, brutal attacks on four women for which a group of young Lebanese men received long jail sentences, Sheik Hilali said there were women who "sway suggestively" and wore make-up and immodest dress ... "and then you get a judge without mercy (rahma) and gives you 65 years".
"But the problem, but the problem all began with who?" he asked.

In the religious address on adultery to about 500 worshippers in Sydney last month, Sheik Hilali said: "If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats or the uncovered meat?

"The uncovered meat is the problem."
The sheik then said: "If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred."
He said women were "weapons" used by "Satan" to control men.

Islamic cleric advises worshippers to rape and beat wives

Self-styled cleric Samir Abu Hamza, who runs the Islamic Information and Services Network of Australasia in Melbourne, advised a male audience in Sydney in 2003 that they could force their wives to have sex and beat them if they were "disobedient".
. . . . .
He also said women "must respond" if their husbands wanted to have sex, and ridiculed laws that prohibit rape within marriage.

"In this country if the husband wants to sleep with his wife and she does not want to and she hasn't got a sickness or whatever, there is nothing wrong with her she just does not feel like it, and he ends up sleeping with her by force ... it is known to be as rape," Mr Hamza said.
"Amazing, how can a person rape his wife?"

2000 Sydney gang rapes by Muslim Gang

2002 Muslim Gang Rapes and the Left Blames Us

2006 Muslim Rape Gang Leader Smiles As He Is Sentenced

Originally posted by InfaRedMan


I guess that means that sometimes you do eh Ooze! You know... try as you do!

That's some truly weird gastronomic practices mate... On Topic...

How did stoning become a topic of Burkah

Yet Sakineh Mohammadi Ashtiani, an Iranian woman convicted of adultery who already received the punishment of 99 lashes, was recently sentenced to death by stoning. Due to an international outcry, the sentence was later changed to hanging; the execution has now been suspended, though it is uncertain for how long.[32]

Source

So if us westerners hadn't of made such a noise about it (include me as one of the people that formally protested) the wording of this article suggests it's likely the sentence would have been carried out.

WOW, I actually gave you an example my friend, which you completely avoided, and I posted those quotes, which shows the other side of the propaganda which you need to take in to consideration. Are you that naive? She was sentenced to stoning, but I'm right, it never went through, the lashes was for adultery, the death sentence is for helping with the murder of her husband. The same as the mentally retarded Virginia women who is being sentenced to death for adultery do you see propaganda, or are you still gonna eat it

The outcry certainly didn't come from Islam. In any case, they downgraded her sentence to hanging for her mild transgression. How humanitarian. Sure it's been suspended but only until international focus is off Iran. It's a political PR exercise and nothing more.

You seriously think it was the outcry which stopped the stoning? I thought it was the Iranian reform policies as I posted before lol..

Stoning is not practiced in Iran you said?

I never said that my Aussie friend, I never said anything, I simply posted quotes, kinda to counter propaganda with propaganda

"Stoning has been dropped from the penal code for a long time

en.wikipedia.org...

Man Stoned To Death In Iran For Adultery
.....

www.rferl.org...

^^
Radio Free Europe hahahaha, isn't that part of the American propaganda machine which spends billions of dollars of American tax payer for BS to control public opinion in Europe. Have you heard of Radio Free Asia hahahah

Eat, eat, eat!!

Iran has not stoned a woman to death since 2007 when the execution of Mahboubeh M sparked outcry in Iran. She had been forced to confess to adultery.

www.guardian.co.uk...

The above: Counter propaganda with propaganda. So much BS has been added over this case, for example: "sentenced to death by stoning for adultery". That is kinda BS because she had an affair with a person who killed her husband and confessed to helping her lover with the murder. She will be hanged it is good Iran didn't stone her to death, that is not an Islamic law, it is kinda a Jewish law, from the old testament.

I don't know about eating the BS Oooze... but it sure appears your sipping at the Kool-Aid. Imams and Mufti's think they're above the law in Iran and especially in rural areas, they do as they please and carry out punishments as they please according to their own personal interpretations of Sharia and the Hadith.

Yup, that is the part we both agree, that they follow the Islamic culture rather than Islam, that being said, it is an internal matter and has nothing to do with you, it is obvious that they are trying to change

While the death sentence for a mentally retarded America still goes on

Ms. Lewis admitted that she had conspired with the two accomplices who shot and killed her husband and stepson in 2002. One of them was her lover at the time.

I think they forcefully took a confession from her, I think they water boarded her counter propaganda with propaganda, kinda balances things out. They are not stopping her execution, even though:

Rocap argued that one of the gunmen later claimed he manipulated Lewis, who is borderline mentally retarded, "to dupe her into believing he loved her so that he could achieve his own selfish goals."

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Embarrassing, but the again, hypocrisy is the middle name of the Western society

Shall I dig up more recent cases for you?

IRM

edit on 22/9/10 by InfaRedMan because: Added Title in 2nd Link

Why?

What are you trying to prove by digging more?

Read the links I provided you in my previous post, it kinda helps

It says exactly how it is, that Iran is trying to change, but the question now is, are you trying to change? Care to comment on the American case? Who was apparently (I'm the reported), sentenced to death by lethal injection, for adultery.

Here is the political sides of this story which the sheep keep forgetting:
To me it seems the US doesn't want reform in Iran, because if reform comes there would be no excuse for a regime change, or for an outright invasion of Iran. If you think about the supposed reformist president, and look at the statistics, you would see how embarrassing it looks:

During the presidency of Mohammad Khatami (1997-2005), the so called “reformist” president of
Islamic Republic of Iran…

…there were at least 28 people stoned to death and 36 people sentenced to death by stoning.

LINK PDF converted to HTML

During presidency of Ahmadinejad (2005-2010)…

…there were 8 people stoned to death and 31 people sentenced to death by stoning.

LINK PDF converted to HTML

You have to take this in to consideration, that during Ahmadinejad's ruling, the judiciary submitted a draft legislation to scrap the punishment of stoning. It is still waiting for approval, but that is really up to them isn't it, let them discuss it, let them debate it, just like you guys do in your part of the world. It is not like you are perfect

In 2002, Iran's judiciary indicated that stoning would no longer be practiced in Iran.

LINK PDF converted to HTML
The above is during the reformist rule.

In 2008, Iran's judiciary decided to scrap the punishment of stoning in draft legislation submitted
to parliament for approval.

LINK PDF converted to HTML
The above is during Ahmadinejad's rule.

Kinda proves they are moving forward, rather than backward..

Now, in regards to why so much propaganda? Umm interesting, I think in order for you to understand that, you have to understand why there isn't any propaganda against Saudi Arabia lol..

If Saudi Arabia comes in to play, or USA, they will say, well it is an internal matter, has nothing to do with you Aussies.. I kinda want you to comment a little about the American case.

Very interesting debate

Originally posted by Kailassa

I guess I shouldn't listen to the Muslim women I know either.
I've several times had to help Muslim women escape from fathers of husbands who they had been frequently beaten and threatened by. Luckily we have a safe house system set up.

Are you sure about that, how am I suppose to test your credibility.

Since I can't test your credibility, and you can't test mine, here my story.

My neighbor, 31 years old, goes out with 16 years old. Every time I go for a visit, she has a black eye, or cut lip. The problem is, I can help her, but I can't. The problem is, some Western women like it that way. They get a rush from it. I don't think you have moved from your house far enough to understand this. I have asked many women if they need help, but they all refuse it.

In NZ domestic violence has increase by 18.5%, that has cause the overall crime statistics go upwards which has shocked the police.

We have freaken big bill boards raising the issue of domestic violence. For some, they truly have formed that prejudice through the media, that it only exists in Muslim homes lol.. Just because Muslim domestic violence has different causes, doesn't mean it is worse than Western..

Hence, your boyfriend could give you a black eye just for talking back. Your dad could do the same.. Go to some gangster houses, I have been there, seen it all, real live, not Short Land Street BS..

And to think this is your self description, put forward to justify yourself ...
Thanks for giving an illustration of what most Muslim guys in Australia are like these days.

It's strange how Muslim men are so hung up on the idea of women being sluts, but feel ogling, groping and rape are justified.

The media does work, it is amazing, I might start my own radio show.. If it is that simple to control people thoughts then it is worth the time, the effort, heck even the money.

Keep generalizing, that will help you see the world in that black and white fashion they want you to see it lol.. Do you know that is how the racist bigots see the world.. Kinda related to psychology.

If muslim women can protest against this, why not protest their treatment from their men. I'm not saying they all are beaten, abused, have their noses cut off etc etc........however, enough of them do.......I guess on second thought I know why they don't.