Petraeus: Burning Quran Endangers Troops

No more giving up our rights out of fear!!! Freedom of speech is our right!!! Muslim extremists are also offended that some Americans worship Jesus, should we stop Freedom of religion as well? To say burning the Koran will put troops in danger is ridiculous, because they already are! No more giving in to bullying threats No more cowardice and fear. Those of you who would gladly strike down the bill of rights to pacify people who couldn't hate us any more than they already do should go ahead and convert to Islam now and take your "if you can't beat 'em join 'em" ethic with you.To those of you who flew flags and swore to never forget: SHAME ON YOU!!! Cowards.

I dont find any problem in burning Quran. It's people's right to burn it. They paid money to buy it and can do anything with it they want too. The same can be argued about building Mosque near Ground Zero (which I supported in other thread) which may endanger Muslims and open them to attacks. It is their right to make it similarly these people can express their right too. It's not against law to burn books.

reply to post by starchild10


That's like saying "Christians are hell bent on killing doctors who perform abortions". It's absurdity to make such sweeping generalisations about a any group, let alone a significant portion of the world's population.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


If you are going to be afraid of burning Koran because of the sentiment of the Arabs, why do you have to be there in Afganistan or in Iraq to fight for what? Why are the Americans there? To spread democracy and freedom or to apease the Moslems?

This whole thing is idiotic.

Burn the books of Koran and tell them we know this book is responsible for the numerous killings all over the world. You don't hate the Arabs or the Moslems, you hate the book causing them to become the violent terrorists.

We love the people but hate the book brainwashing them to be killers.

Perfectly legitimate to exercise the freedom of speech by burning the book Koran. Let them burn the book of Bible, if they think it is causing the violence in the world.

I support burning of Koran 100 %.

It is a legitimate gesture showing that we don't like what it teaches to the people.

If Muslims react violently to this act of burning Qur'ans, then they will just be validating the claim that "they hate us for our freedom".

This man is burning Qur'ans in peaceful protest. You may not like it. You may not agree with it. Soldiers may be endangered because of it, but that's why they signed up for the military: TO PROTECT OUR FREEDOM.

If anyone acts out violently because of this burning, it's not this man's fault. End of discussion.

Originally posted by infinite
Nazi's started off by burning books too.

It's not even close to what is going on.

We have one little group of idiots who want to exercise their right as Americans to freedom of speech. The want to exercise it in a legal manner as is their right. So let 'em. IGNORE them. The less air time they get, the better. Kinda like the whacks at that 'Baptist' church that protest the funerals of war vets. Idiots who exercise their right to free speech ... even though we all want to slap 'em upside the head.

The Nazi book burnings were gov't sponsored official events that, as far as I can remember, were practically mandatory for the military and political figures. There was no freedom of expression going on .. no free speech ... just Nazi propaganda.

Kinda' different .. ya' know?

reply to post by FlyersFan


It is like burning a pornography book. I can't see any difference.

Why do they limit the legal age for access to the pornography? Because it corrupts the young minds.

For humans, I think there should be no age limit for preventing them from getting access to Koran.

It is evil and evil begets evil as you see every day in the media on the violence happening in the middle east. Somehow, you are surprised if a day goes by without someone being killed by these suicide bombers.

This is so idiotic that Petraeus even feels the need to comment on this. This church we are talking about has 50 members. They should be ignored. Who cares what they do? Everyone is just giving these people the publicity they are seeking.

If there was an athiest group of 50 people burning bibles who would care? Would the general feel the need to comment? I doubt it.

Everyone tiptoes around so not to upset the Muslims. Why is that? Because they are afraid of violence that could come from it. This is just reenforcing the sterotypical view that people have of Muslims that they are all a bunch of lunatic fanatics. The best way to deal with this would be to ignore it and not give them the satifaction of having any publicity. Who cares if a small group of people want to burn some books let them do it without any fanfare.

Now that all these people decided they had to make a statement about it to condemn the burning it is big news and there will be a bunch of news outlets there to broadcast the event. If it was ignored there would have been very little or no coverage of the event. So it went from a local event involving a small church to now a worldwide event that will be broadcasted all over the planet.

Originally posted by infinite
reply to post by BigDaveJr

 

Really?
When was the last time a Buddhist burned the Bible?

The pastors behavior is totally execrable and irresponsible. What was his justification again? "Jesus would do it" if he was here - Jesus, the second Holiest prophet in Islam. Love thy neighbour...

What a wonderful group of people, splendid mentality. Inspiring role models, the tutelage for modern society. Man, a Christian leader suggesting. another religious sect is intolerant and feels the urgent need to envision how his Church is "tolerant"

I'm not one to agree with Tony Blair, but he commented these words of this event;

Don't burn the Qu'ran, read it*

*This if this "Church" has developed, learned and mastered the art of basic literacy skills.

By the way tonight when the Crescent Moon appears two holidays are going to begin for two of the three Abrahamic Religions:

Jewish New Years and Muslim Eid

Last year CNN did a piece on Eid which I had frankly never heard of. It marks the end of Ramadan and is basically New Years, Thanksgiving and Christmas all rolled into one. In the CNN piece it said that many Muslims living in America found the Holiday to have far less joy because so few people celebrate here in America, and that typically made them sad.

Proto hates sad people because Proto loves the Barney Song! This is a rare affliction that a small percentage of adults who have had too many children suffer!

There is no cure for the Barney Song disease, just an incessant and insatiable desire that we all be one big happy family!

So I did two things I made a mental list of everyone I knew who was Muslim, shopkeepers, clients and neighbors and determined I would try playing Eid Clause to lift their spirits, and I also made a thread where I published guess where? Right here on Above Top Secret to chronicle my experience in reaching out to my Muslim brothers and sisters to encourage others to do the same.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Now a couple of interesting things, first some background. Just prior to the beginning of the holiday a fellow member who favors Zionist politics had tried to convince me through a series of emails that he was in possession of credible information that Islam would use the crecent moon and the start of the Holiday to launch a series of Dirty Bomb Attacks on the United States and possibly Canada too.

He even went so far as to say that the city I live in Miami was a prime target.

I knew this was nonsense because everyone loves Miami!

But in other words I should be afraid, very afraid. We should all be afraid very afraid.

Naturally these Dirty Bomb Attacks didn't materialize, it was just more of we must fear the Islamic Boogie man nonsense.

Now I was a bit nervous when I set out to play Eid Clause, I had no idea what the actual Muslim customs were other than what CNN wrote in their article of three days of feasting and gift giving.

So I decided to take gifts of food! Healthy nuts and fruits and not so healthy pastries.

I would walk in to a store or a business where a Muslim owned it or worked behind the counter, put on a big smile and hand over a little basket and say "I want to wish you Happy Eid".

I am white, and have long hair, and looked like I am trapped in the 1970's, and they all without hardly an exception looked at me like I had just pulled the pin on a hand grenade for a second.

"You know it is Eid? " I would smile and say "Yes, yes I do", they would look at me like maybe I was the Ghost of Christmas Past who had stumbled onto the wrong movie set and reply "But you, you are not Muslim?", and I would smile and say "No, no I am not, I am not even religious", they would eye me a bit suspiciously and the gifts probably wondering if they were poisoned and ask "So how do you know it's Eid?" and I would smile some more and reply "because I read about it on CNN's web site this morning" this would trigger a bit of a response like "ah" and then I would go on smiling and say "CNN said that because there are so few Muslims in the United States that many Muslims here are sad on Eid, because it's not universally celebrated like Christmas is, and Eid is in Muslim Countries, so I thought I would help you celebrate!"

Now when they realized I was not pulling their legs, their eyes and faces lit up like Christmas trees. The suspicion and caution melted away, and there aren't really words to describe how happy most of them appeared to be. They all insisted on giving me an Eid gift in return, mostly really tasty home baked cookies and cakes, none of which I had ever tasted before.

Some came right out and told me, that a American who wasn't Muslim wishing them a Happy Eid and bearing gifts to boot was probably the nicest Eid present they could ever hope for.

A number of people who read the thread all had similiar experiences, many being so over loaded with gifts they felt like they had robbed a bank when they left neighbors homes after hours of talking and eating and sharing stories and learning about one another.

The most interesting thing was when a man in Australia told his neighbors that it was me, an American who had come up with the idea and prompted him to play Eid Clause himself, they were flabbergasted! An American? An American? We really do have an anti-Islamic immage throughout the world, and they determined that an American coming up with this idea, was probably the best Eid gift they had gotten!

Now here is the amazing thing. It's been a year since then, and not one terrorist attack by Muslims has been carried out on the United States since then, nothing has changed, yet the atmosphere of fear and prejudice is many times greater this year than it was last year?

Why? Because Muslims want to build a cultural center in New York City? They want to BUILD something, and because a Pastor in Gainesville wants to DESTROY something and burn something?

In reality the why is just a lot of very prejudicial people running around the Internet spreading fear just like the man a year ago who tried convincing me a Dirty Bomb Attack was about to happen.

Why is just a lot of politicians tapping in on the sentiment these people are creating.

Why is because the media loves to sensationalize anything for ratings.

Islam really isn't doing this or driving this, prejudicial Americans are.

Prejudicial Americans who have for the most part never met or interacted with a Muslim, or ever read the Quran. Who almost everything they imagine they know about both, is taken from the websites and videos of prejudicial people who have never met a Muslim or read the Quran either.

Without exception most of our own troops who have been living in the Islamic world are against this kind of stereotyping, from lowly privates up to the top Generals. Many feel it makes their job that much harder to do in forging partnerships in Islamic Nations.

Maybe instead of burning Qurans and Bridges people ought to try doing just what I did last year, and building and strengthing some Bridges instead, by trying to civil and neighborly and kind to Muslim Americans during their most important Holiday of the year.

No one tried to convert me when I did this, they just had a whole lot of respect and well wishes for me, and some very tasty cookies and cakes too.

Rest assured a Proto Does Eid II thread will pop up in a day or so.

Spread some love and joy, leave the fear and hate.

reply to post by abe froman

Muslim extremists are also offended that some Americans worship Jesus, should we stop Freedom of religion as well?

Jesus happens to be the second most important Prophet in Islam next to Mohammed. Which Muslim Extremists do you imagine are upset that Christians worship Islam's second most important Prophet? Where did you hear this?

Care to provide a source for your statement? Or do we really want to hate 1/3 of the world based on exagerations and no understanding of their religion at all?

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


let me clarify for you, any religion that does not seat Mohammad(peace be upon him) as the final word of God is offensive to islamic extremeists, worshipping JC as the son of God is as well. as is JC's statement that no man cometh to the father EXCEPT BY ME. Just like many protestants are offended by Catholics praying to God through Mary.

Originally posted by abe froman
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

let me clarify for you, any religion that does not seat Mohammad(peace be upon him) as the final word of God is offensive to islamic extremeists, worshipping JC as the son of God is as well. as is JC's statement that no man cometh to the father EXCEPT BY ME. Just like many protestants are offended by Catholics praying to God through Mary.

edit on 8-9-2010 by abe froman because: alien intervention

Says who? Are you an Islamic Scholar? I asked you for a source of your information that Muslim Extremists hate that Christians worship Jesus Christ who is Islam's second most important prophet.

So I know you are not an Islamic Scholar, because you seemed completely unaware that even Muslim Extremists consider Jesus one of the holiest of Prophets as he is all throughout the Quran.

So what is the source for your contention?

Now who really hates Jesus are Talmudic Jews who have him and the Virgin Mary confined to a special level of Hell for Blasphemy.

In reality the close partnership between Jews and Christians makes almost no sense at all since they see Jesus only as a false prophet and blasphemor where Muslims see him as the second most important prophet next to Mohamed.

Now though some will find it offensive, I am going to exercise my own right to free speech and say Zionist politics which relies on Christians evening the scales plays a big part in feeding these distortions on Islam to Christians, while totally side stepping how Talmudic Jews actually feel about Jesus.

In a world where nothing is quite what it seems, perhaps it's not the Muslims who are the big threat to Christianity but the Talmudic Jews who have conveniently turned the two biggest sects to fighting one another in a war that will utlimately likely destroy them both.

By the way, you don't have a source for your highly assumptive statements regarding Islamic views on Jesus.

The Talmud itself is a source for Jesus and the Virgin Mary being consigned to a special level of Hell to be punished for being a blasphemor and a false prophet.

The Quran itself is a source for Jesus being revered as the second most important prophet.

In reality it's a both sides against the middle divide and conquer power play set up by Rome and it all stops the minute you all grow up and stop playing the game.

Thanks for posting.

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


Yes Jesus would certainly burn the Koran. He could not tolerate the sickness and the evils in the society. And then that's why he was killed in revenge by the evils of the society. The beauty of Christianity is that he got resurrected. He won. The Good won. Otherwise, why would you believe in Jesus Christ?

Now, Mohammed never got killed nor got resurrected. His book is pure evil and that's the end of the story.

You can tell the tree by looking at its fruits.

You don't eat a fruit after you see someone dies of eating it. You don't taste it to see if you can get killed by it.

That is called stupidity. If I don't set that tree in fire, I would live far away from that poisonous tree as possible.

The tolerance of a religion is only for the Christianity and other peaceful religions not for Islam.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I have been inside a mosque and was given and read a pamphlet entitled bridge building between islam and christianity. though not an islamic scholor i am well aware of the role jesus has as a prophet in islam, in your zealous rush to defend islam and bash judaism you overlooked the phrase "extremists". Is it really your argument that islamic extremists are not offended by christians worshipping christ as the last prophet and only son of god? To say that christ is the LAST prophet and ONLY son of God is by it's very nature "defaming the prophet" which is a cause for EXTREMISTS to engage in lesser jihad.

Originally posted by abe froman
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

I have been inside a mosque and was given and read a pamphlet entitled bridge building between islam and christianity. though not an islamic scholor i am well aware of the role jesus has as a prophet in islam, in your zealous rush to defend islam and bash judaism you overlooked the phrase "extremists". Is it really your argument that islamic extremists are not offended by christians worshipping christ as the last prophet and only son of god? To say that christ is the LAST prophet and ONLY son of God is by it's very nature "defaming the prophet" which is a cause for EXTREMISTS to engage in lesser jihad.

First off the only thing I am trying to defend is the planet and myself from three hot headed children that don't get along.

Clearly the pamplet you were given is not your source for your belief that Muslim Extremists hate Christians because they worship Jesus.

Nor was I the one that wrote the Talmud which clearly states Jesus is a false prophet and a blasphemor and is consigned to a special level of Hell along with his mother the Virgin Mary.

I am simply stating a common sense fact that it would seem two differing parties would be closer based on one at least accepting their was something holy about their prophet, as opposed to one thinking he is a false prophet and is consigned to hell.

Muslims think Jesus is a holy prophet of God, and Jews think he is a false prophet and blasphemor.

In reality what is happening is that most Americans simply don't understand the semetic mindset and their politics.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend, and this is all that is going on.

Nor do few people understand the historical politics of the region, which at times had Rome and Christianity trying to conquer the holy lands so desperately that yes, it led to Fatwahs by Religious leaders of Islam to kill invading Christians.

The same thing is going on today, Muslims don't hate you because you aren't Muslim, they hate America because of our dual standard Gun Boat Diplomacy where a country like Israel can commit any humans right violation and no matter how the general body of the U.N. Assembly tries to condemn it the U.S. Vetos any action against it, while at the same time, almost any Human Rights Violation by an Islamic nation can trigger sanctions or even invasion.

The wars in the Middle East are about oil and opium and the people who live there know it.

Because the corporations who profit of this need you to pay for it, they sell it to you along religious lines. Because you have a self attached religious identity.

I am not defending Islam any more than I am bashing Jews, I have friends who are Muslims, Jews and Christians who I all consider to simply be Human Beings.

Those who don't understand history are condemned to repeat it. Those who base their decisions on limited and false information are bound to make bad ones.

You have no source that Radical Muslims hate Christians because they worship Jesus, I can though agree that Radical Muslims hate Western Nations that use gunboat diplomacy and dual standards and use disproportionate military force that kills a lot of innocent civilians and very few combatants.

It kills very few combatants because in fact there are very few combatants to kill. The vast majority of the people in Muslim nations are peacable.

Most of the propaganda simply eminates from the religious as a way of selling you the idea your own religion is better than the next guys so you keep those collection plates full, full, full, and the Government who wants you to pay taxes so they can secure oil and natural resources for the corporations that loan the Government the money, that you get to pay back, to maintain a military empire for the corporations to acquire and rape resources from other people's and lands.

Because so many people are so insecure about their own religion and needing it to be considered as the only valid one, all they pay attention to are the religious distortions instead of the real politics and business, and economics that are the real engine driving the machine.

Religion as the wise Chinese emperor said is the opiate of the masses. The elites get the oil, opium, precious metals and money, and they give you some religion in return.

I don't care that the three sects of Abraham can't agree on a shared doctrine, I care that you are all so darn violent and nasty to one another in that pursuit.

In the op this is about the responsibility that goes along with freedom of speech, I find it interesting that some of you use YOUR freedom of speech to browbeat others into not using theirs.

reply to post by notsoperfect

Now, Mohammed never got killed nor got resurrected. His book is pure evil and that's the end of the story.

So Mohammed must still be alive if he never got 'killed'?

Think about your arguments much.

How about this, if Jesus did exist and he was murdered what does that really say about his ability to get along with others?

If Mohamed did exist and he wasn't murdered what does that say about his ability to get along with others?

reply to post by abe froman


Don't listen to what they say. Watch what they do in the name of Mohammed and his god allah. There is no bridge between Jesus and Mohammed. It is like comparing the darkness and the light. The two can not mingle.

If Moslems say such a thing, it is a deception to lure you into their evil spider web.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


1. to "defame the prophet" is just cause for murder in Islam. 2. to claim Jesus is the last prophet of God (as christians do) is "defaming the prophet". I hope you understand my point now as I have used the smallest words possible.

The bible can be just as violent as the Quran.
Anyone stone any homosexuals lately? How about adulterers?
No? Well neither do the muslims that don't live in a theocracy.
The ones that do are twisted, but could be just as twisted if they based their government off of the bible.