Petraeus: Burning Quran Endangers Troops

Last comment, i dont think a military should make these political comments. He doesnt have a mandate, he has responsibility over his troops, which he jeopordizes with these statements..

[edit on 8-9-2010 by Foppezao]

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Logarock

 

Not really a civil war but forces supported, for political ends, by Syria and Iran trying to just take over the country. This was no home grown civil war. In fact the orders to blow up the hotel were given from Tehran and at the time Iran had a contengent of RG in country....as they still do...training what is now known as Hezbollah....run right out of Iran not Lebanon.

One of my clients later in the civil war in Lebanon was President Gameyels mother who was living in Los Angeles. He was the Christian President of Lebanon and she sure seemed to think it was a civil war too.

He was later assissinated by the way.

Yes I am very aware of that. But really a civil war that amounted in the end to folks posturing themselves according to the position of outside powers or needing stamped by them is realy not a civil war in the end. Take Gameyel as a case in point. Assad runs that country. Iran runs that country. In their jealousy of what Lebanon had become and their hate for the west and any Christain influence in the area....they destroyed it and they set on it now like a roosting hen.

Why did or does Gameyels mother live in LA? A refugee?

As a christian I find the burning of another religions Holy book highly offensive.
The man is not christian, he won't even follow Jesus Christ most basic principle of the Golden Rule.


Matthew 7:12 (The Message)

12"Here is a simple, rule-of-thumb guide for behavior: Ask yourself what you want people to do for you, then grab the initiative and do it for them. Add up God's Law and Prophets and this is what you get.

Luke 6:31

31And as you would like and desire that men would do to you, do exactly so to them......35But love your enemies and be kind and do good.

As Christians do we want Muslims burning Bibles in hatred?

Instead this man wants to propagate hate, and when he films it and puts it on the net, Aljazeera will broadcast it to every Muslim nation in the world. You think the Muslims got mad when they drew a cartoon of Mohammad, see what this does. The man is a fool.

What good is it to have the right to express yourself and not be able to?

He has the right to roast a pig over hot quran coals if he wants to. Don't mess with his right as an American. Lately the only American right people want to honor is the ones that let our foes crap on us. America is forgetting who it is. Start exercising your freedoms people. Use them or loose them.

The only thing that is endangering our troops is using them to fill the pockets of the greedy rich global elites.

Deal with it Muslims! Its our country and we can do what we want. Just like you burn our flags and cut the heads of innocent contractors in the name of allah, we can burn your precious book.

reply to post by Logarock

Yes I am very aware of that. But really a civil war that amounted in the end to folks posturing themselves according to the position of outside powers or needing stamped by them is realy not a civil war in the end. Take Gameyel as a case in point. Assad runs that country. Iran runs that country. In their jealousy of what Lebanon had become and their hate for the west and any Christain influence in the area....they destroyed it and they set on it now like a roosting hen.

Actually once again, you are showing how little you actually know about the Lebanese Civil War.

In the constitution, certain positions within Government were to be speficially awarded to specific factions based on the demographic.

Because Christians originally had the majority in Lebanon, the Office of the Presidency by law went to a member of the Majority.

When Christians lost the majority in Lebanon they did not want to relinquish the Presidency, which set off a crisis that led to two governments being formed.

So in reality had Christians simply abided by the constitution there would have likely been no civil war, and Israel, Syria, and Iran would not have moved into the vacuum each looking to profit off of their faction winning.

For example if there was a civil war in the United States and an anti-Israel faction came to power, Israel would loose billions in aide, weapons and trade.

It would have compelling reasons as a foreign power to finance and aide pro-Israel factions, which is essentially what all the various power player nations did in Lebanon.

Including Israel, who was backing the Christians, and held onto a huge buffer zone in the south of Lebanon after the war, as Syria held onto a huge zone in the North after the war.

For the masses these wars are about emotions and religion. For the Nations they are as much about profiting off of loans and trade, Bankers of those nations make money off of loans to the factions, manufacturers and weapons dealers make money too, other merchants then export and import products in what is now a sphere of influence.

So in reality you are engaged in the same kind of political posturing you are decrying, as you ommit lots of details for like what caused the Civil War in Lebanon, which nations actually participated, and for what purpose and end, to try to theorize it was all some kind of Muslim manipulation.

It all started as a constitutional crisis like in our own civil war here in America when the Christians of Lebanon having lost the majority in the population did not want to relinquish the Presidency which is awarded to a member of the minority faction.

Gamayel's mother was in Los Angeles because she would have been a prime kidnap target in Lebanon, very few people knew she was in Los Angeles because she was still a potential kidnap victim there too. I just happened to know because she had to display her identification documents to buy airline passage. She did ask me to tell no one who she was not even the other people in the office.

However having said that the leading factions of the Druze militia and Shia and Sunni Militias and their relatives were all potential kidnap victims too.

The Lebanese Civil War did include various Muslim Factions fighting against other Muslim Factions too.

It was not a simple Muslim against Christian affair as you would like to make it out to be.

It really likely could have been avoided had Gameyel himself relinquished the Presidency as per the constiution and accepted the post as speaker of the Parliment that went to the second largest faction.

Where politics are concerned there really no innocent parties.

If he does go ahead then I guess it's

(Leviticus 24:19–21, Exodus 21:22–25, and Deuteronomy 19:21)
"an eye for an eye",

Originally posted by TheNewKid
If he does go ahead then I guess it's

(Leviticus 24:19–21, Exodus 21:22–25, and Deuteronomy 19:21)
"an eye for an eye",

in terms of how they reply

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Petraeus: Burning Quran Endangers Troops

1 - The troops are endangered no matter if that stupid book is burned or not.

2 - Terrorists will use any excuse to attack .. even no excuse at all. Burning or not burning will change nothing.

3 - This is America. Freedom of speech. Freedom for private citizens to burn whatever book they want to. Fighting for freedoms like tis is why people join the military. Guess he forgot about that.

Originally posted by Logarock
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Traveler, there must be more to this than a simple bunch of idots burrning books. It fits to many bills. Looks staged. Like "how convenient" can it get.

I do so agree with what you say.

Also, a simple bunch of idiots burning books would barely cause a ripple, and would barely be known about were it not for the MSM proclaiming it and fuelling feelings about it.

MSM only every deliver news which the Cabal want to be disseminated.

I mean, if some group of idiots want to burn the Koran, why give it any publicity at all - yet in this case, they've even roped in Petraeus to make a statement. The more I think about it the more it seems that a ridiculous, tiny group of people are being given a lot of importance by TPTB for their own evil ends.

My guess - and it's a wild guess, is that they are still planning on creating another fake terrorist attack and blaming it on the muslims, and this is laying the ground for it.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33

As a christian I find the burning of another religions Holy book highly offensive.

I think most reasoned people do, regardless of whether they are religious or not.

Yes here in America we have the right to use free speech to be highly offensive, yet the fact that it is one of our liberties does not mean it is not going to be seen as highly offensive when a person does or says something that is highly offensive to others.

I know if I am say something highly offensive to someone whether it is the truth or not, it might lead to them reacting in equally offensive ways.

Evidently a lot of Americans are confused about their rights.

For instance all people are created equal seems to be interpreted by some prejudiced people to mean all Muslims are one in the same, all liberals are one in the same, all conservatives are one in the same, etc., etc.

That if you imagine someone has offended you in some way, you have an equal right to offend them right back, that some how two wrongs add up to a right.

What it really adds up to is people who want to claim the moral highground loosing that distinction.

What it really adds up to is making the person avenging a percieved wrong with another wrong the same kind of person they are decrying.

Yes here in America you have the right to be as offensive as you want to be. Just because it's a right, doesn't mean or make it right.

It's just like when you are arrested, you have the right to remain silent, anything you do or say may be held against you.

This will be held against the people who do it, quite possibly even by their own God who they claim to be doing it for.

On these boards a like minded group of people desperately try to make it appear like the majority of Americans favor these kinds of actions.

They don't though, which is why most of Gainesville's religious community will actually be engaged in solidarity that day denouncing what really is just a highly offensive act for the sake of being highly offensive.

Many Christian Pastors and Jewish Rabbis plan on even including passages from the Quran in their sermons that day.

Intelligent people see unreasonable and offensive hate for what it is.

They see stereo typing and prejudice for what it is.

What you have displayed is this pastor doesn't even understand the commandments of his own religion, could there be any chance at all that he understands what Islam is about?

Not hardly.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I've got no problem with Pastor Jones and His Church burning the Koran. I bet the Bible gets burned or defiled in other Countries by Muslims,Buddists,Hindus or other groups. It's a freedom of speech issue and the Gov't should butt out and leave Pastor Jones alone. It's out of bounds for the Gov't to try to use strongarm tactics against Churches.

I forget...what are the troops fighting for in the first place?

Did freedom have anything to do with it?

You reckon General Petreas realizes the price of freedom, or is he too concerned with the price of oil and opium?

The idea of 'the shouldn't protest something because it is dangerous' is highly offensive to me. More so than burning the Koran.

People can dunk Christ in water, burn Korans, and protest G8 and the IMF all they want. The Koran IS a book, it isn't like they are burning a Muslim, or the last copy of a Koran.

And please no more burning or beheading witches either.
Why didn't muslims protest Saudia Arabia arresting that tv psychic for witchcraft?

If they are so worried about what's proper and religious freedoms and all?

I have a different take on this. Just maybe what this pastor and church are doing is redefining the lines between the truth and a lie. I do not think he should burn anyone's books. I don't think we Christians are told to do such things. But, maybe he is trying to bring out what he sees is the truth. That the eventual act of the Muslims is Jihad. According to what I've read in the Quran, it says that " if you cannot outright wage war and defeat your enemy, make a peace with them. Live among them and grow in numbers, and live off from their wealth, then when your numbers are sufficient, overtake them in battle and defeat them." I haven't read it in a while so I will say this is my best knowledge on what I read.

So, to the point. When this act of burning is done, Those who are Jihad will come out of the woodwork in large numbers and fight the infidels as they see the rest of the non believing world for defying their god. Like flies to honey. Then I guess it will be known what the true intent of the Islamic world is. Is he provoking them, yes, but it's not about book burning as much as it is getting the world war started early rather than late before Iran is fully armed with Nukes. Because in the end, what they want is the world under Islamic rule.

To us, burning a book seems insulting but something called free speech. To the Muslim, it is the direct slap in the face of who they believe to be God. And they are commanded from youth to fight for that god, and to kill all offenders where ever they may be.

To that Pastor, I would say don't start this war. Don't burn the books. But, I think he'll do it anyway.

Originally posted by hadriana
The idea of 'the shouldn't protest something because it is dangerous' is highly offensive to me. More so than burning the Koran.

He is burning Korans for Christ sake! Extremist Americans burning Muslim books is a very bad thing.

You know what? This book burning ceremony represents a real danger to Canadian troops and integrity as a whole. Our government has always maintained the story that we are in Afghanistan to restore their country from the war effort, and we are there because of our NATO obligations with the US.

If this retard burns these books, then us Canadians will be associated with your fascist BS. If our government had any balls at all we would send CSIS agents down there immediately to eliminate this threat and to set an example to the US to stop this pile crap now before it hits the fan and covers us all.

reply to post by BigDaveJr


Really?
When was the last time a Buddhist burned the Bible?

The pastors behavior is totally execrable and irresponsible. What was his justification again? "Jesus would do it" if he was here - Jesus, the second Holiest prophet in Islam. Love thy neighbour...

What a wonderful group of people, splendid mentality. Inspiring role models, the tutelage for modern society. Man, a Christian leader suggesting. another religious sect is intolerant and feels the urgent need to envision how his Church is "tolerant"

I'm not one to agree with Tony Blair, but he commented these words of this event;

Don't burn the Qu'ran, read it*

*This if this "Church" has developed, learned and mastered the art of basic literacy skills.

reply to post by Digital_Reality


Can I point out one observation? You might see it as minor, but "those Muslims" are your fellow citizens. Born and raised in the United States, like you. Doesn't the constitution, give them the right to freedom of religion or assembly?

By the attitudes being represented on ATS, I wouldn't be surprised if a majority of American members want their Muslims citizens to wear black coats and stitch little yellow crescent moon on them Yes, that is a Nazi reference because, after all, the Nazi's started off by burning books too.

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


Um, that ain't gonna happen.........not in this life time anyway. Just roll with it as you've always done, but Canada will not dictate anything in America........not gonna happen.

Originally posted by Fromabove
When this act of burning is done, Those who are Jihad will come out of the woodwork in large numbers and fight the infidels as they see the rest of the non believing world for defying their god. Like flies to honey. Then I guess it will be known what the true intent of the Islamic world is. Is he provoking them, yes, but it's not about book burning as much as it is getting the world war started early rather than late before Iran is fully armed with Nukes. Because in the end, what they want is the world under Islamic rule.

Again, how on earth can you make such broad and sweeping statements about 30% of the world's population? Do you really think that by burning the Koran, 30% of the world's population are suddenly going to rise up as a single unit and invade the "West"? Absolute insanity.

Originally posted by john_bmth
Again, how on earth can you make such broad and sweeping statements about 30% of the world's population? Do you really think that by burning the Koran, 30% of the world's population are suddenly going to rise up as a single unit and invade the "West"? Absolute insanity.

I think what was meant that it could be a trigger point followed by reciprocal retribution followed by..... Look how our peaceful Islamic brethren responded to a cartoon insult. Calls for murder and jihad all over the place. Can you imagine what this will do?
But re dangers to troops, they chose to put themselves in the line of fire. And it was the government which chose to embark on a ridiculous war. No my sympathies are with the ordinary people who will be caught up in this.
That said, I do have a sneaky admiration for the mad pastor. Islam IS a religion bent on world domination - by sword or koran. Maybe people do need to see the response to this to realise the true nature of the beast.
Meanwhile I can offer tours of some of the UKs finest Islamic cities. Come see what you are getting

I doubt they could hate us more, short of bombing the Mecca, or helping Isreal 'take back' Jerusalem. Sure it would be good for recruiting insurgents for a while.
Clearly an undesired result of instilling so much fear and hatred in to the american media to keep up support for the war. The pentagon's PsyOp people over played their hand a little.

That being said, book burners are the lowest of all intelligent life forms, predestined to an eternel self imposed ignorance.