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"We Muslims know the Ground Zero mosque is meant to be a deliberate provocation"

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posted on Aug, 11 2010 @ 11:06 AM

Originally posted by Hudson
reply to post by Danbones

"We need this Islamic center to preach love and respect in contrast to those that preach hate and destruction"

How do they do that by putting up a mosque? How is that inviting to non-Muslims, or bring people together when its obviously so controversial? It seems to me that you wouldn't want to put this mosque in a place where Islamic terrorists didn't kill 3,000 people. That CLEARLY isn't bringing people together, including Muslims!
[edit on 10-8-2010 by Hudson]

OK, here is how it works, folks. If you want to build a mosque somewhere, oh I don't know, in the heart of some infidel land, first you bring in the "bad" muslims who crash planes into a building or two. Then, the "good" muslims move in and you get yourself a mosque, maybe not right at the spot but close enough. Also, you get to name it "Cordoba" to commemorate your first foothold in another infidel country centuries earlier. Don't worry, the stupid infidels won't get the reference but your people certainly will. And the kicker of it all is that the infidels will actually defend your right to build your mosque in their land!
All you have to do is say that the reason you need an Islamic center is to preach love and peace.
You know, because it might have not been perfectly clear when those planes were slamming into the buildings, that it is love and peace what your religion is about.

[edit on 11-8-2010 by tungus]

posted on Aug, 11 2010 @ 11:49 AM
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Hey proto, remember this thread?

Toot toot Tooting a different horn now are we?

[edit on 113131p://bWednesday2010 by Stormdancer777]

posted on Aug, 11 2010 @ 11:55 AM
reply to post by tungus

You mean that this is the first Mosque to be build in the US?

We are finally letting them build a Mosque because they crashed planes on 9/11? Who did? The people building this mosque crashed planes? I thought the people on the planes died? I thought we had Mosques in this country before 9/11? Can you clarify?

posted on Aug, 11 2010 @ 12:07 PM

The Constitution

While many of us believe and want to believe that the United States Constitution was written for “We the People” and remains or at least should as an enduring testament to hard won freedoms and principles we all hold as lofty and noble, the truth is not quite so kind.

Personally I could care less that the Census is mandated in the Constitution.

[edit on 123131p://bWednesday2010 by Stormdancer777]

posted on Aug, 11 2010 @ 12:15 PM

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Hey proto, remember this thread?

Why yes I do it's my Tax Day Thread. Now what is it you feel my Tax Day Thread has to do with my belief that the Constitution separation of Church and State should be adhered too.

See what you might not and many other posters might not understand is that it's about the right to be an individual.

When you start telling people they can't dress, or worship, or belong to or believe in something then you are prohibiting their right to be an individual.

Eventually in a divide and conquer world this leads to the elimination of individuality and a homogenous mass you must conform to.

So that is where all this ulatimately leads and I am very much against it.

I think the Orthodox Jews in my neighborhood wearing all black and trench coats in the 90 degree plus heat and humidity are wacky but I respect their individual choice to be wacky.

They likely consider my collection of Nat Nast, Tommy Bahama, and Tori Richards tropical wear to be garish and wacky too.

I don't tell them how to dress they don't tell me how to dress.

Now when we pass one another on the street (they walk, I ride a bicycle) they seem standoffish and a bit highbrowed and withdrawn.

They will try to avoid eye contact, but it's not because they are any of those things, it's because they fear I won't understand their choice and will persecute them and judge them harshly for it.

So when I say hello, that mask melts and they open up with a big smile, and when I tell a joke they respond with a hardy laugh and tell one of their own in return.

I wish I could say I respond with a hearty laugh but they need to work on their jokes!

It's all in the timing.

This is also true of Muslims which I discovered and shared here on ATS when I published this thread.

Celebrating Muslim Eid Today as an Ambassador of Goodwill

In this thread Proto got people around the world to reach out on Islam's most important holiday and display a token offering of a friendship to see how the Muslims reacted.

A heart warming feel good thread on people of all nationalities and religions sharing commity on a festive occassion for Muslims.

People were surprised how warmly they were recieved and how much they recieved in return.

The truth is as someone in business I know lots of Muslims just like I know lots of every body.

They are warm, honest, sincere, jovial, and loyal as customers and friends. They pay their taxes, love their families, are kind to their friends, just like most Americans do.

Now how many Muslims do you know? How many Muslims do you think Hudson knows? How many of their homes have you visited, how many times have you broken bread with them, how many conversations have you had with them.

I grew up in a rural part of Pennsylvania where there were no black people, none, zero zip, yet everyone there was prejudice against black people, and most of them had never ever even met a black person.

Even as a little boy I thought that was the strangest thing in the world, how can you hate people you have never met.

How can you Storm Dancer? Because a religious book tells you they are bad? Because a politicians who wants to isolate you and control you says they are bad? Because a few bad eggs, are going to be the stereotype of all of them.

Why so many people are against this, is in fact they want you to be isolated so they can manipulate you to be who they want you to be and further their agenda.

The last thing they want you to do is go to a multi-faith community center where heaven forbid you meet some real Muslims and realize they are not only not a threat to you but nice people.

Once again it would seem those who imagine they are 'awake' are only cognizant of distopian nightmare they want to promote in part themselves.

I can understand why some who have been isolated and live sheltered lives are so easy to manipulate, but I can't understand people who want to judge in mass 1.6 billion people based on the alleged actions of a few people who share a religion.

I honestly think people are just seeing in those 1.6 billion something that in reality exists within themselves. Bigorty, irrational fear, and a desire to dominate and eliminate.

Think about it, for those of you who have the capacity to dare to be individuals and think for yourselves.

Understand this is all about taking that away, and I will fight it tooth and nail.

I respect one's right to be an individual as long as they aren't hurting me, and the truth is you can't display that anything than less than a minute fraction of 1% of the world's Muslims are hurting anyone.

By extension, 10% of our own 'Christian' population is in jail presently for doing just that.


posted on Aug, 11 2010 @ 12:18 PM
reply to post by Stormdancer777

My views on the government being dishonest are well known Storm Dancer and coincidentally widely agreed with here on ATS.

It has nothing to do though with YOU deciding whether you want to uphold standards of equality and fairplay.

So how many Muslims do you personally know that you would like to judge what American Muslims should be able to do and not do as a result?

How do you know them, how have you interacted with them?

Thank you by the way for promoting these other important things I have writtent extensively on!

posted on Aug, 11 2010 @ 12:20 PM
Can't have it bother ways,

Either we are free or we are not free,

Fact of the matter is we are not, I would have to get approval to build,


All roads lead to Rome but None lead to Saudi Arabia,


Incredible one sided, makes me wonder!!!????

posted on Aug, 11 2010 @ 12:28 PM
reply to post by Stormdancer777

I am free, because I choose to take responsiblity for those actions of my own that I exercise freely.

That might mean being arrested, killed, imprisoned, or beaten for acting freely.

If you follow the 600,000 unconsitutional codes of the U.S. Corp you are not free as they regulate every aspect of your existence.

That's the difference.

I don't follow them and I take my chances 'freely' in not doing so.

Now the Constitution did mandate a Census but it did not mandate it be conducted by the Commerce Department making you once counted a part of the Commerce System which Congress has unlimited ability to regulate and then create laws through them that are not consitutional unless you are part of the Commerce System.

I don't particpate in the Census because I am free and don't want to be regulated through Commerce Laws.

This does not prohibit the Government from counting me and knowing of my existence, I can assure you they do.

All you are doing is trying to impeach the messenger by misrepresenting the messenger because you can't overcome that only a bigot would prohibit someone from building a church and worshipping there.

That it is against the Constitution to do so, and you are only doing that because of your own widely known religious beliefs, which guess what makes you a potentially dangerous religious radical too that wants to control what others can or can not do along religious lines.

Which is why Church and State in part were seperated.

The U.S. Codes are not constitutional, but I don't tell people not to follow them, I just point out they are unconstitutional.

In other words I don't have any interest in telling other people what to do, I have an interest in other people not telling me what to do.

It is legal and lawful for a mosque to be built anywhere zoned for such a facility, as long as it complies with building codes (corporate government) and Fire Marshall Codes (Corporate Governemnt) that's the bottom line, and you know as everyone else knows that you can't overcome that argument.


posted on Aug, 11 2010 @ 12:45 PM
There Is Already a Mosque Near the WTC Site

Anyone buying the propaganda bullcrap of that being offensive is downright racist. Maybe you should take a look at this map of "jesusland" :

If you want to fight dangerous cults, here is a list of the top 10 :

[edit on 11-8-2010 by gagol]

posted on Aug, 11 2010 @ 12:55 PM
reply to post by Stormdancer777

Um what exactly is one sided?

Let's simplify the fundie extremists of any religious persuasion are getting into our government. As broken as it is, it will withstand this. That's what we really need to watch. It's the fundies, who are in the VAST minority, who give their own religions a bad name and make the most noise. Recognize who they are and leave the rest of the good people of every religion alone.

posted on Aug, 11 2010 @ 12:56 PM
reply to post by gagol

Yes. And this very imam is an American citizen who's lived and worked in this community for decades.

posted on Aug, 11 2010 @ 01:20 PM
Lesson in humility and "openmindness" :

Don't eat propaganda like a baby eat pablum and fight demonization of entire nations and faith.

posted on Aug, 11 2010 @ 01:32 PM
reply to post by gagol

CNN Poll: Nearly 70% Of Americans Oppose NYC Mosque Plan »

Read more:

Broken down by party affiliation, 54 percent of Democrats oppose the plans while 82 percent of Republicans disapprove. Meanwhile, 70 percent of independents said they are against the proposal.

The poll also showed opposition did not vary widely by age.

"Support for the controversial project is slightly higher among younger Americans than older Americans, but even among those under the age of 50, six in ten oppose the plan," said CNN Polling Director Keating Holland.

Read more:

Is Muslim a race?

[edit on 013131p://bWednesday2010 by Stormdancer777]

posted on Aug, 11 2010 @ 01:40 PM

Originally posted by gagol
There Is Already a Mosque Near the WTC Site

Anyone buying the propaganda bullcrap of that being offensive is downright racist. Maybe you should take a look at this map of "jesusland" :

If you want to fight dangerous cults, here is a list of the top 10 :

[edit on 11-8-2010 by gagol]

The Manson family?

You can't be serious,

posted on Aug, 11 2010 @ 01:45 PM
reply to post by Stormdancer777

Is Muslim a race?

You can't be serious, hard to believe you asked that question.

Most Polls mean nothing.

posted on Aug, 11 2010 @ 01:56 PM
reply to post by Stormdancer777

Please don't play on words... it's all propaganda and the average american is drinking it like Jonestown cool-aid. It all a matter of how it is presented. What if the MSM presented the story as : Mosque near WTC is to be relocated a bit farther away, 100 millions will be invested to rejuvenate the neighbourhood.

What do you think the poll would be?

I expected that reaction from the average American, but we are on ATS, supposedely denying ignorance.

Maybe I should have used the term "absurdly intolerant" instead of racist...

posted on Aug, 11 2010 @ 02:16 PM
deliberate provocation? more like some more brainwashing into the american eye that muslim's were somehow responsible in the events of september eleventh!

[edit on 8/11/2010 by indigothefish]

posted on Aug, 11 2010 @ 02:24 PM
More Moderate Muslims

If Mayor Michael Bloomberg ever decides to stop buying his way around New York City's term-limit law, he'd be a perfect fit at the State Department.

Who is imam Abdul-Malik?

In "Eid in America," the State Department also wisely left out imam Abdul-Malik's 2004 promise of Islamic supremacy in America. He made it in a Friday sermon of the sort that one typically hears at "moderate" mosques like Dar al-Hijra:

Alhamdullilah [Praise to Allah] and we will live, will see the day when Islam, by the grace of Allah, will become the dominant way of life. . . . I'm telling you don't take it for granted because Allah is increasing this deen [religion] in your lifetime. Alhamdullilah that soon, soon . . . before Allah closes our eyes for the last time, you will see Islam move from being the second largest religion in America -- that's where we are now -- to being the first religion in America.

"Outreach," you'll be pleased to learn, is just Abdul-Malik's day job. He is also a director of the National Association of Muslim Chaplains (NAMC). As journalist Paul Sperry recounts in his important book, Infiltration, NAMC's founder, Warith Deen Umar, is best known for his glorification of the 9/11 hijackers: "Even Muslims who say they are against terrorism secretly admire and applaud" them.

Dar al-Hijra was established in 1991. Not so coincidentally, that is the same year American leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood wrote an internal memorandum to their global headquarters in Egypt, explaining that they saw their work in the United States as a "grand jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within." Echoing imam Abdul-Malik, the Brotherhood said its tactic would be "sabotage."

Anyway with that in mind,

U.S. funding of ground zero mosque imam's trip

What about separation of church and state?

Fund raising?

At the State Department, which presumably will be spending taxpayer money on Rauf's tour,

And what Motivates Bloombreg?
Bloomberg makes Dubai a hub

The company has also been developing an Islamic finance portal, which Mr Linnington said would be helped by having more people on the ground building relationships.

“Particularly since the meltdown of the western capitalist system, there has been an increasingly large focus on the virtues of Islamic finance,” he said. “Today, there is no one single provider of information that caters to the Islamic finance market. So by Bloomberg being here, we are in the process of building out an Islamic finance product. We are very confident that we can build a product that meets the needs of the market right now.”

posted on Aug, 11 2010 @ 02:25 PM
reply to post by Aquarius1

I was being sarcastic, how's Proto?

posted on Aug, 11 2010 @ 02:37 PM
And now there are also plans to build a Gay-bar next to that mosque.

I think they are deliberate provoking back in this way to the muslims.

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