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"We Muslims know the Ground Zero mosque is meant to be a deliberate provocation"

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posted on Aug, 10 2010 @ 03:12 PM
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Honestly, though, I laugh sometimes when I come on this site and see the responses by some of the people. You honestly have people on here complaining about how our rights are being stripped away, about how the Constitution is just a piece of paper, that we're degrading from a country of rights to a country that is hostile to it's people.

And then you have people on here who don't want a mosque built near Ground Zero...

First off, this is not an eleven-story mosque. Only one story is a mosque and that's possibly the only place the owners of this building were able to get. Getting land on the island of Manhattan is expensive.

But even if it was an eleven-story mosque, how dare those of you who are against this just because it's a mosque.

It seems to many on here that your rights only matter if you're Christian. Had it been a church, there would be no problem...




posted on Aug, 10 2010 @ 03:13 PM
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show me proof it was actually muslims that did 9/11 and maybe id get just a little upset, actually probably not america deserved it if the muslims did it. if the government did it like i believe then it doesnt really matter does it.



posted on Aug, 10 2010 @ 06:30 PM
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reply to post by Hudson
 

A quote from the link that you posted has me throwing a "fitna." What reasonable person would not have a fit when they are assaulted by the shameful denials of what took place on 9-11, (by those who support the building of this mosque.)

You can not reason with mosque supporters. They live in a world where decency and legitimacy are thrown out the window. They have a ridiculous and lame counter argument for every legitimate reason why this mosque should not see the light of day.


The Koran commands Muslims to, "Be considerate when you debate with the People of the Book" -- i.e., Jews and Christians. Building an exclusive place of worship for Muslims at the place where Muslims killed thousands of New Yorkers is not being considerate or sensitive, it is undoubtedly an act of "fitna"

www.ottawacitizen.com...

As I have stated before, even after all the hurdles have been negotiated and all of the funding has been obtained..........the biggest hurdle of them all will be New York Union Construction Workers.


[edit on 10-8-2010 by MY2Commoncentsworth]



posted on Aug, 10 2010 @ 07:35 PM
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reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth
 





You can not reason with mosque supporters. They live in a world where decency and legitimacy are thrown out the window. They have a ridiculous and lame counter argument for every legitimate reason why this mosque should not see the light of day.


The truth is the greatest threat to the United States of America, is those Americans who would sully the constitution in the fashion you are suggesting.

Separation of Church and State is a cornerstone of the Constitution and American life, and it is a foolish and slippery slope those who think in such an un-American fashion are on that would have the State regulate religion in such a way.

Today its Muslims you are highly prejudicial against, what will it be tomorrow, Episcopalians, Lutherans?

It is a dangerous precedent such foolish people seek to set, and the truth is that every one of the Jewish, Christian and Islamic Texts has violent passages condoning driving one’s enemies before them, smiting them down, and sacrificing their own children and on and on.

Bigotry and xenophobia have no place in America where all people are created equal and no religious tests are permitted.

Our forefathers wisely understood the time to NOT abandon our constitutional principles is in time of challenge, and today the nation stands 13,000,000,000,000.00 dollars in debt for the avarice of fools who did just that.

We have a Homeland Security department that sounds like it’s straight out of Nazi Germany and indeed with the power to spy on Americans without warrants, detain and hold them indefinitely without charge, incarcerate Americans in secret facilities, and try them in secret, and even assassinate them in cold blood abroad, it is straight out of Nazi Germany.

The Muslims are the least of the threats facing us, it’s Americans who aren’t Americans that espouse destroying the Constitution and its protections, that don’t realize in their bigotry and misplaced hatreds that it’s a double edged sword that is more likely to smite one than save one.

Real Americans stand for fair play and the rule of law, and despise anything less, and 10 years after 9-11 not one person has been charged or tried let along convicted, and you friend are worried about a Mosque?

It is people who espouse such thinking that have done more irreparable harm to this nation than any combination of any other nations and peoples combined.

It shames me to think such people actually believe that they are despite what they are espousing are real Americans, for they certainly are not.

Americans uphold the Constitution, they believe in open and speedy trials and the rule of law, they believe church and state should be separate for both the benefits of the churches and the state, they believe all people are equal, and equally protected under the law, and they believe all accused are innocent until proven guilty.

Where did you say the transcripts and the verdicts were for those 9-11 trials again?

Oh that’s right there have been none.


[edit on 10/8/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]



posted on Aug, 10 2010 @ 08:16 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Today its Muslims you are highly prejudicial against, what will it be tomorrow, Episcopalians, Lutherans?


Come on Proto, are you saying that Muslims didn't fly those planes into the towers? We are at war with Radical Islamic Extremism, not Lutherans, or Episcopalians. Are there any Islamic Radicals in Lutheran Churches? I have no problem with Episcopalians either. They can piss the pale all they want, as long as they don't piss on me or you.

I can not believe that a person of your obvious intelligence can deny that the people who flew those airplanes into the Towers were not Radical Islamic Extremists......It would be pretty hard to bring them to trial for the simple fact that they are all DEAD!

I agree with your Constitutional arguments. But I believe that political correctness has only strengthened the hand of the enemy. I oppose this building on every other grounds except the Constitution. And believe me, if it was unconstitutional, we wouldn't be having this debate right now.

But even the Constitutional argument could be challenged and tied up in the courts for years, if somebody had a mind to do that.

If you are a Muslim, I can certainly understand your position. If you are not, then why?

You leave me with no other avenue except to believe that you might have some sinister ulterior motive behind your facade. I hope this is not the case. I hope that you are just another concerned liberal who is being uncommonly insensitive to the feelings of to many Americans.

Peace.



posted on Aug, 10 2010 @ 08:30 PM
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reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth
 


I am not at war with anyone, and judging by your leisurely posts on ATS neither are you. You simply imagine you are.

I do not know who flew the planes on September 11th, 2001, because a government run amuck has not officially charged, nor tried, nor convicted anyone of that in a Constitutional Court of Law.

Because real Americans believe any and all who stand accused are innocent until proven guilty in an open court of law by a jury of their peers I can not as a true American say whom is responsible for these crimes.

Yet when one looks at motive and opportunity and who stood to benefit the most from such a heinous act it certainly was not and is not the Muslims.

This I am sorry to say is likely why too, that our derelict government has not upheld its constitutional duty to charge, apprehend, and try in a fair and open court preceding anyone to date.

The only reason this travesty and miscarriage of justice has occurred is those errant fools who believe abandoning our constitutional principles is ever a wise idea, and that emotional driven speculation is a legitimate substitute for facts.

Once again the Muslims are not the real threat to America; it is those deranged and foolish individuals who imagine that forsaking our constitution for a ounce of feel good retribution is a wise idea.

It certainly is not and thousands of Americans murdered that day scream out for a justice that will be continually denied them because of such faulty and dangerously fraught thinking. The nation stands today a slave to its own debt in prosecuting foolish wars that only increase those innocent souls injured killed and maimed that had no previous grievance to now harbor ones as a result, of choosing that poor option instead of turning to law enforcement to seek out and unearth the facts of who is truly guilty, instead of attacking wholesale everyone that is not.

Those not guilty under attack include Americans who are now devoid precious liberties that real Americans fought and died to secure, secured to be traded away by people who know not one thing about the lofty principles they fought and died for and lack the wisdom or the discipline to adhere to them.



posted on Aug, 10 2010 @ 08:59 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Trials are forthcoming. Osama Bin Ladin has taken credit for the attacks and you are still trying to persuade me that Radical Islamic Extremists are not responsible for the carnage in New York and Washington.

Next, you will be telling me that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of 9-11, (the one who will be going on trial if Eric Holder ever gets his shizel straightened out), was water boarded into confessing to something that he did not do......Don't make me laugh Proto. I laugh so hard that I bruise ribs sometimes.

Yes, our country is in serious trouble with its debt. But the War on Terror has only accounted for a very small fraction of that debt.

And it is not just Radicals who are threatening the United States. The country is under seige on all fronts, at home and abroad. There is an ever increasing likelihood that the US might not prevail in this struggle for survival. Our enemies are many, our friends are few.

Our Government poses as great a threat to the nations survival as all of our enemies combined.

Who's side are you on Proto?......or do you still insist that we are not at war and are trying to lull me to sleep?

edited to add....If you are trying to make me laugh myself to death, you are doing a hell of a job.

Peace.

[edit on 10-8-2010 by MY2Commoncentsworth]



posted on Aug, 10 2010 @ 09:03 PM
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reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth
 


"There is an ever increasing likelihood that the US might not prevail in this struggle for survival. Our enemies are many, our friends are few."


so true so true............



posted on Aug, 10 2010 @ 09:07 PM
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Time to grab our sabots and throw them into the gears of the machines



posted on Aug, 10 2010 @ 09:16 PM
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Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth
 


"There is an ever increasing likelihood that the US might not prevail in this struggle for survival. Our enemies are many, our friends are few."


so true so true............


If America is dependent on such stereotypical thinking and prejudicial thinking as some on this thread are espousing then it surely already has lost.

For what could any religious zealot, disgruntled person, or tyrant do that could effectively destroy what is the essence of America, it’s constitution, the way people have who have forsaken due process of the law, and the constitution to give into their own base emotional and primal desires that are fueled by nothing but bigotry and hatred, instead of fact and constitutional principles.

Nay, it will not be enemies from without that cause this nation to fall, a nation that already has lost it’s way and is 13,000,000,000.00 debt and is as dependant as a common beggar for it’s continued survival, it will be such people who let not reason and wisdom guide them, but those abhorrent base emotions, that care not for fact, but only an obscene and murderous blood lust, that while they imagine that to be present in their enemies, they need look no further than their own mirror to see it in all it’s infamy and despicable insane morass.

People looking to encourage Americans to forego its lofty constitutional principles, are neither Americans or friends of Americans, and the old saying holds quite true, the most dangerous enemy is a stupid friend.

Thank goodness such thinkers have few friends.



[edit on 10/8/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]



posted on Aug, 10 2010 @ 09:17 PM
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Gutfeld Tells Beck About Idea For Gay Bar Next to Ground Zero Mosque

lol

www.breitbart.tv...



posted on Aug, 10 2010 @ 09:23 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Originally posted by Protoplasmic Traveler
For what could any religious zealot, disgruntled person, or tyrant do that could effectively destroy what is the essence of America, it’s constitution


I dare not say, I can only whisper.



posted on Aug, 10 2010 @ 11:25 PM
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Islam is a religion, but it is held differently than other religions. Islamic nations build their governments around their religion. Their governments not only support their religion, they are bound by it. There is no separation of "church and state", and there is no tolerance. While I won't simply say that all Muslims are part of the "long-term plan", I do believe that the Islamic nations and the religion of Islam are. And that plan is to make Islam the only religion, and therefore, the single governing body over all people. In short...the plan is an "invasion" of other nations, conversion to Islam and finally...a single governing body UNDER Islam.

While the United States supports freedom of religion...Islamic nations do not. Islam preaches, and their governments support, the conversion of all people to Islam...or to death or exclusion/isolation. And by governments, I include "governing bodies" like a Mosque. Americans (and other nations) know that recruitment, conversion and related teachings go on within these Mosques, but being bound by "freedom of religion", a continued fear of being labeled "racist", etc., we are currently loosing this battle.

When a government and governing bodies are bound by a religion, and the religion is used to infiltrate other countries...those countries are being invaded by those governments. Many Americans don't seem to realize this link between religion, government and a general "way of life". We believe that all people, all religions can live together and get along. But Islam does not believe that. Islam believes in conversion to Islam, or destruction.

Does all that sound a little tough to swallow? I can see that. But then, try this on for size. "Radical" Islam wants the United States, other countries people and other religions out of their nations. Bin Laden has called for this over, and over again. But...they freely come to our country and build Mosques. Why? Why do they want us out of their areas, but they want to be in ours? Simple strategy...hold the ground you have, while you take over new grounds.



posted on Aug, 10 2010 @ 11:44 PM
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reply to post by WeAreAWAKE
 





While the United States supports freedom of religion...Islamic nations do not. Islam preaches, and their governments support, the conversion of all people to Islam...or to death or exclusion/isolation.


This is absolutely not true, Christians and Jews have lived in Iraq for thousands of years.

Christians have lived in Lebanon for thousands of years.

Christians have lived in Palestine for thousands of years.

Close to 10,000 Jewish families were living in Palestine for thousands of years before the Zionists came along and started immigrating.

Tens of thousands of Jews live in Iran and refuse to leave no matter what Israel offers them to do so.

Jews, and Christians have lived in the Emirates since there founding.

The part of the Quran that cites killing infadels was renounced by a Fatwah religious decree in the 1100's creating the split between Sunni and Shia Muslims.

Fatwahs are the equaivalant of a Papal Bulla (Pope's decree) later the Shiite clerics also renounced force conversion.

The only nation trying to take over nations is ours (The United States of America) and clearly you are arguing for controlling religion (making church and state the same) by insisting one be eliminated based on complete ignorance of the religion.

You might want to do some real research from credible sources, as none of your contentions are supported by facts.

Christians and Jews have lived in the Middle East for thousands of years to the present day along side Muslims and the only wars were the result of the Christians trying to capture parts of the Holy Land through the crusades which backfired on them when the Muslims took parts of Spain and Constantinople.

For Muslims to take over the United States they would need a three to one numerical advantage and the ability to place millions upon millions of troops onto American Soil at once.

They do not, and never have, and never will have that kind of naval presence, the only powers creating empires are Western Powers.



posted on Aug, 11 2010 @ 12:17 AM
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Originally posted by ken10
It seems to me that Islam is being vilified a lot lately, Are we sure this is not a set up to turn the Christian world against Islam.?

Its clearly a provocation...........But set up by WHO ?


Starred.. exactly what I've been thinking all along.
If I was a conservative american that thought terrorists pulled off 9/11 I would take great offense, symbolically it would represent planting a flag..

How can you not see this as a provocation? Mosques are fine.. but on freaking Ground Zero? And to open it on the 10th anniversary?

It's blatantly provocative!.. build a center for all religions instead, for humanity, a statement of unity.. this will only divide and conquer the population even more.. which is probably the objective.
Why does it have to be a mosque out of all the possibilities?
It won't smooth things over like these naive people think..

I can't believe americans aren't more upset by this.. everyday I read about ridiculous news coming from the US, intolerance, hate, warmongering.. but this, when it's a real provocation.. almost no outrage?

I'll never understand.....



posted on Aug, 11 2010 @ 12:34 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Tens of thousands of Jews live in Iran and refuse to leave no matter what Israel offers them to do so.


Sources?



Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
The part of the Quran that cites killing infadels was renounced by a Fatwah religious decree in the 1100's creating the split between Sunni and Shia Muslims.


So then does this mean that only half of all Muslims want to kill us?



Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Fatwahs are the equaivalant of a Papal Bulla (Pope's decree) later the Shiite clerics also renounced force conversion.


So why is there still Sunni and Shia?



Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
The only nation trying to take over nations is ours (The United States of America) and clearly you are arguing for controlling religion (making church and state the same) by insisting one be eliminated based on complete ignorance of the religion.


Really!




Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
You might want to do some real research from credible sources, as none of your contentions are supported by facts.


Yes, you might want to post those credible sources yourself, Proto.



Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
For Muslims to take over the United States they would need a three to one numerical advantage and the ability to place millions upon millions of troops onto American Soil at once.


Ever hear of long term infiltration?




posted on Aug, 11 2010 @ 12:42 AM
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islamizationwatch.blogspot.com...

The map above shows some of the places on Earth where Christians are being persecuted by Muslims.

It sort of looks like a "beast" rising up out of the Earth to me.

Can anybody connect the dots?

edited to add: There will be a quiz later.


[edit on 11-8-2010 by MY2Commoncentsworth]



posted on Aug, 11 2010 @ 12:49 AM
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reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth
 


If you are really unaware of the Jewish Community living in Iran I suggest you hit Google.

If you really know this little about history I suggest you start reading some books on it.

There is an endless wealth of reading material that will teach you about the world you actually live in.

Or you might actually want to travel yourself some and discover it first hand. The people you want to slander wholesale are for the most part like any other group of people, warm, caring, generous, who just want to live in peace, enjoy their families and their life.

Why you want to hold 1.6 billion people responsible for the alleged and not even proven acts of 19 people arguably points to a greater dysfunction on the part of people prone to such thinking than it does those they are slandering wholesale.

You are arguing for holding all those people accounatable for what 0.000000011875% of them have not even been convicted of doing, but simply are accused of doing.

I don't live in a state of fear, and I don't have to create drama to compensate for not having a life.

What this thread has displayed is a shocking array of pro-war, anti-Muslim posters, who seem to not posses on relevant fact between them.

ATS is about denying ignorance, not propagating it.

The really screwed up part is most of the war mongerers and xenophobes aren't rushing out to do this fighting they insist upon, they would rather stay home and promote ignorance and falsehoods and manipulate others into killing and dying for them.

Google Iraqs Jewish Community, Google Lebanons Christian Community, Google Iraqs Jewish and Christians Community, Google the history of Jews that did not go into disapora, better still visit a public library and check out some real history books.

We live in the information age, there is no reason for anyone to be suffering from such ignorance or be promoting it.

Thanks.



posted on Aug, 11 2010 @ 12:56 AM
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Originally posted by MY2Commoncentsworth


islamizationwatch.blogspot.com...

The map above shows some of the places on Earth where Christians are being persecuted by Muslims.

It sort of looks like a "beast" rising up out of the Earth to me.

Can anybody connect the dots?

edited to add: There will be a quiz later.


[edit on 11-8-2010 by MY2Commoncentsworth]


Why because a highly biased site like Islam watch dot com claims so.

If they are being persecuted why do you imagine they are living there?

By the way your previous posts said that the Muslims intend to kill all Christians and eliminate them so why are they just being 'persecuted' in Muslim Countries where you claim, that the State forces everyone to convert.

You might not actually be able to see the inconsistencies in your arguments, but that doesn't mean other people can't.

So obviously they aren't being murdered, they aren't being forced to convert, and they aren't being held there against their own will.

So what exactly is the persecution, they aren't allowed to rule over the Muslims there and force them to convert to Christianity?

If you actually thought about the arguments that racist sites like the one you are sourcing promote they make no sense, and actually contradict themselves.

All you are doing is promoting a religious crusdade, and once again America is based on seperation of church and state, so are you worried about Americans, worried about Christians in general, or just intent to slander Muslims and promote war based on anything that you can try to pretend justifies it in a bigot's mind?



posted on Aug, 11 2010 @ 01:00 AM
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reply to post by TheLaughingGod
 





It's blatantly provocative!.. build a center for all religions instead, for humanity, a statement of unity..


Actually as has been displayed in the thread previously for others who are not familiar with the real story, is it is an inter-faith community outreach center being built to expand an existing Mosque already there.

It has been endorsed by the local Jewish Community of that neighborhood after they sat and went over the plans for it.

It was never slated to open on 9/11, and it's blocks from where the World Trade Centers stood.

So let me ask you for people who like to react before reading and researching, how does it help when they are in fact doing, exactly what you suggest they do, but aren't even aware of it, because you are too busy reacting, to learn fully about what's going on first from credible and unbiased sources?



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