"We Muslims know the Ground Zero mosque is meant to be a deliberate provocation"

reply to post by Hudson

The Koran commands Muslims to, “Be considerate when you debate with the People of the Book” — i.e., Jews and Christians. Building an exclusive place of worship for Muslims at the place where Muslims killed thousands of New Yorkers is not being considerate or sensitive, it is undoubtedly an act of “fitna“.

1. They were Muslims, but they didn't die as Muslims, although I'm in no position to judge them, but according to Quran they didn't die as Muslims targeting civilians and innocent people deliberately.

They are no different than the American infidels who deliberately killed hundreds of thousands in Japan by chucking two atomic bombs.

2. We don't even know who was behind 9/11: I'm sure I made a thread in regards to this mosque, let me see if I can find it:

1. I have seen many thread pop up in ATS in regards to this mosque, and finally found a trend, that most people forget about the 9/11 conspiracy, when posting their opinions in regards.

Number 1. being said, if a Conspiracy Web Site Members forgets about the Conspiracy, and allow their emotions to run wild, how do you suppose Americans themselves feel, outside the forum>? And how they would react, and wouldn't the chance of them forgetting be higher?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

So I agree and disagree

3. Muslims in the US have every right to build this mosque, that being said it is not Fitna.

For them to call this Fitna, they must also call the pursue of nuclear energy by Iran Fitna, which Iran has every right to pursue.



[edit on 11-8-2010 by oozyism]

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by Hudson


1. They were Muslims, but they didn't die as Muslims, although I'm in no position to judge them, but according to Quran they didn't die as Muslims targeting civilians and innocent people deliberately.

They are no different than the American infidels who deliberately killed hundreds of thousands in Japan by chucking two atomic bombs.

 

2. We don't even know who was behind 9/11: I'm sure I made a thread in regards to this mosque, let me see if I can find it:

1. I have seen many thread pop up in ATS in regards to this mosque, and finally found a trend, that most people forget about the 9/11 conspiracy, when posting their opinions in regards.

Number 1. being said, if a Conspiracy Web Site Members forgets about the Conspiracy, and allow their emotions to run wild, how do you suppose Americans themselves feel, outside the forum>? And how they would react, and wouldn't the chance of them forgetting be higher?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

So I agree and disagree

 

3. Muslims in the US have every right to build this mosque, that being said it is not Fitna.

For them to call this Fitna, they must also call the pursue of nuclear energy by Iran Fitna, which Iran has every right to pursue.



[edit on 11-8-2010 by oozyism]

so your not gonna judge them but you are gonna judge us.....


"the American infidels who deliberately killed hundreds of thousands in Japan by chucking two atomic bombs. "

the fact it was a world war and the actions of those 2 events saved more lives than they took.


then linking your theory of 9-11 on a conspiracy site.......um no thanks

you would have to be insane to take your word of anything of that magnitude

"they must also call the pursue of nuclear energy by Iran Fitna, which Iran has every right to pursue. "

they have a right to nuclear power--- no way in hell should they have it

and almost for the past decade iran has been aid training and funding the taliban and fighters in iraq and afghanistan and funds hamas and hellbollah
that have killed and continue to kill americans

iran wants the bomb so they can use it on the us or isreal

its people like these that reaffirm why i dont want that mosque built

why cause these people are going to be going there in droves



[edit on 11-8-2010 by neo96]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Total BS proto. You never answered any of my questions and twisted my words to suit your sick arguments.

You disregard a reputable source and resort to name calling and labeling. Typical.

You are not the intellectual that you would want everybody to believe. You list no sources for your position because no credible sources exist.

You mix in a little truth to conceal the lies. You're good, you have probably persuaded quite a few people with your arguments, but you don't fool me.

Better luck next time. "Multiple accounts Oozy" can take up your battle-flag......As for me, I'm out of here. Back to work, I've wasted enough time arguing with terrorists. There will be a quiz in a few days. Study Up.

reply to post by neo96


You are flogging a dead horse neo. This dog won't hunt. Don't waste your time with theese people. That's one of the things that they want you to do.

But if its fun, go for it.....Talk at ya later my friend.

reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth


you too man:p

reply to post by neo96

so your not gonna judge them but you are gonna judge us.....

Honest mistake by you, also jumping to conclusions.

I meant that "only GOD can judge us". As I clearly stated I'm in no position to judge, that also includes American bombardment of Japan, the direct targeting of civilians.

I can't judge both of them, but can see that both of their actions are the same. Using terrorism...

And please don't say more people were saved by killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people, that is just evil

People who don't agree to fight, leave them the hell alone

reply to post by Quaght


The author in the OP is IMHO playing the Muslim equivalent of the "Uncle Tom". And I am a native born American who was raised Catholic (for the information of anyone who might think that my response is grounded in the Muslim faith)

There is already going to be a memorial to the victims at the Ground Zero site (eventually... but that's another thread). Quite a few of said victims were innocent Muslims that happened to be at the WTC site that day working. The proposed location is two blocks away from the actual WTC site.
o
More directly to the point:

This is supposed to be the land of the *FREE*, with a guarantee of freedom of religion and worship. Not the land where some are more equal than others, not the land where the supposed actions of 19 men justify the relegation of millions to second class status.

There are already several synagogues and churches within close walking distance of the WTC site (which we should also consider was the center of one of the most densely populated business districts one Earth), why shouldn't Muslim businessmen and women also be able to worship near their offices on their break?

There are a multitude of Muslims at the WTC site and PATH train station daily selling everything from Halal meals to newspapers to bootleg designer bags. They can often be observed putting down their prayer rugs as the appointed times of day and kneeling to Mecca, and no one makes a stink. Why is it suddenly a huge problem if they have a house of worship like everyone else?

IS the argument that we're really expected to treat a group that includes a billion human beings like so much criminal trash for the forseeable future because because their beliefs and needs are outweighed by the losses of a few hundred thousand surviving friends and family members of victims? When does every decision regarding lower Manhattan stop being determined by the anger and fear of grieving widows and widowers? To what radius from the site of the towers do their fear and rage and prejudice take precedence over the reality that this is SUPPOSEDLY a free nation and 99.999% of Muslims are no more dangerous, evil, or fanatical than any Christian or Jew?

I can certainly forgive and sympathize with the family members and friends of victims who have a problem with this project, but for every closet bigot and closedminded gasbag to crawl out of the woodwork talking about how this is a secret celebration of victory over the infidel and this other frankly paranoid and insane sounding propaganda in a grab for votes and publicity is sickening. outright *sickening*.

Next they'll be wanting to put crescents on their sleeves and to move all Muslims into a gated community safely away from everyone else....

reply to post by oozyism


then japan shouldnt have attacked us then that wouldnt have happened

and yes those 2 bombs saved lives american and japanese

the invasion force that it would have taken

the civilians and military that would have died as a result of fighting,starvation,disease.

those are the lives those 2 bombs saved

im pretty sure the term "american infidel" is a judgement.


if the radical islamist didnt attack us then we wouldnt be in iraq and afghanistan

the wtc would still be standing

and that mosque wouldnt be bulit

reply to post by neo96

then japan shouldnt have attacked us then that wouldnt have happened

and yes those 2 bombs saved lives american and japanese

the invasion force that it would have taken

the civilians and military that would have died as a result of fighting,starvation,disease.

Once again, I will repeat:
Those who didn't agree to fight you, leave them the hell alone. Terrorism is terrorism.

im pretty sure the term "american infidel" is a judgement.

Nope, American infidel is any non Muslim who is American. I didn't judge them

if the radical islamist didnt attack us then we wouldnt be in iraq and afghanistan

the wtc would still be standing

and that mosque wouldnt be bulit

Ohh Jeez, who put you up to this, I'm pulling myself down by even talking to you.

1. non of the attackers were Afghans?
2. Afghanistan asked for evidence of Osama Bin Laden's guilt before handing him over to the US, which was the exact reason why the US invaded Afghanistan.
3. non of the attackers were Iraqis?

Go find out the nationalities of those who [supposedly] attacked the WTC, and where they were raised up, some were raised up in Europe, why didn't you bomb Europe.

4. 9/11 Conspiracy, put that on your table of thoughts also.

5. American Muslims have every right to build mosques, sorry, you are the minority, cry me a river.

Bye, I rather apply for TAX refund than do this with you

reply to post by Flighty


there's also Pace University housing and a Dunkin Donuts on the same block. Don't you think those organizations have a obligation not to operate on the ashes of thousands of murder victims as well?

as a matter of fact.... the WTC site is bounded on the north by Vesey St. the proposed site is well north of Vesey St. in any case and there are no more ashes of victims in that building than in any other building in lower Manhattan.

I wish the bigots would at least be honest with themselves and others and state plainly that they're looking for an excuse to treat any Muslim they can find like a piece off terrorist trash, rather than disrespecting all concerned with lies about "ashes of victims" and the mosque location being on top of the bodies of thousands etc. I didn't hear too many people making this case when the apartment and shopping complex on the other side of Greenwich Street less than a block away was under construction. Did the ashes of the victims only land on the side of Greenwich St. where the Muslims want to put their community center?

reply to post by Hudson


Good find and a great take on this. Everybody seems to know the true meaning behind this, it's a victory statement, except for the politicians in the US. Then again maybe Bloomberg and co. does and they are just facilitating the Islamists. A prominent Jew (in name only and isn't that a sign of a European banker?) helping Muslims attain their rights. Nothing strange here, move along. One would think that if this Jewish billionaire were all that concerned with their rights to build this "trophy mosque", he would simply foot the bill himself, he's likely got the cash on him, takes the subway to work don't ya know, and that way everyone would know exactly where the money came from. Saving Saudi Arabia the awkward scrutiny. (Skipping through the garden hand in hand with "W" was bad enough for that nation.) That would be classy don't you think? After all, Saudi Arabia provided most of the disgruntled young men that did the Towers in and now we expect them to foot the bill for the mosque? How positively rude of us ingrates! So Mr Mayor, how 'bout being a mensch and footing the bill? We already know whose rights you're concerned with. We just can't quite figure out why?

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I see.. I wasn't aware of that. I was under the impression that they were gonna finish it on 9/11/11 from reading it on another thread.

I still think it's unnecessary, why do it in the first place when they KNOW it's bound to piss a lot of people off, nothing good will come from it.
Like an improved relationship between muslims and americans would ever come from this..

What if the shoe was on the other foot? If american extremists blew up a regional icon in the middle east then decided to build a church there.. I'm pretty sure liberals everywhere would have a field day complaining about american imperialism ad nauseam.

To me it doesn't matter if they have every right in the world to do it, it's in bad taste period.. and if the goal is to bring people together and celebrate diversity it will be a monumental failure.
Just doing it for the heck of it even if the results will be counterproductive to the goal is inane in my opinion.

reply to post by TheLaughingGod

What if the shoe was on the other foot? If american extremists blew up a regional icon in the middle east then decided to build a church there.. I'm pretty sure liberals everywhere would have a field day complaining about american imperialism ad nauseam.

This makes absolutely no sense as the people building this Mosque ARE AMERICANS.

That’s right American Citizens. So by your example during World War II every Roman Catholic Church in the United States should have been closed because we were at war with Italy (though I know some people on this thread will be asking for a source for that) and every Lutheran and Protestant Church should have been closed because we were at war with Germany (I am sure some people posting to this thread will want a source for that, and sources that the Protestant and Lutheran Movements began in Germany).

In addition every German Restaurant and every Italian Restaurant should have been closed by your standards as well too.

Americans are comprised of many nationalities and many religions.

Saudi Arabians are alleged to have been involved in the untried 9-11 plot.

Now because this will be very challenging for some people to consider being Catholic did not stop Italians from attacking other European nations, and being Protestant or Lutheran did not stop Germans from attacking other European nations.

Now what’s more interesting is 19 Saudis can some how end up representing in so many people’s eyes every Muslim alive, even though the vast and overwhelming majority of Muslims renounced these attacks and do not support or engage in any type of violence.

Yet MILLIONS of Germans and MILLIONS of Italians KILLING MILLIONS of PEOPLE did not lead REAL AMERICANS to want to close Catholic Churches, Italian Restaurants, or Protestant and Lutheran Churches and German Restaurants or to prevent any new ones being built!

So why the DOUBLE STANDARDS?

I truly doubt most of the people posting against this mosque are actually Americans living in America because the truth is REAL Americans know that the people building this mosque are Americans too. The mosque isn’t a foreign embassy or a restaurant it’s a place of worship of a sect of a religion that MANY AMERICANS belong too.

So now these so called Americans who want to close it, who want the rest of us to TRAMPLE THE CONSTITUTION by ignoring the Separation of Church and State Clause and INTERFERE with how AMERICANS WORSHIP are in fact obviously promoting a RELIGIOUS CRUSADE AGAINST AMERICANS because of what 19 alleged Saudis are supposed to have done.

In your own case even after you said you would support something that was a multi-faith outreach center, and then found out through this thread it is a multi-faith outreach center you are still against it.

So not only do a number of people in this thread DO NOT MEAN what they are saying, they obviously DON’T CARE WHAT THEY ARE SAYING either, and they SURE HAVE NOT THOUGHT ABOUT WHAT THEY ARE SAYING.

Because all they are saying is they want to fight a HOLY CRUSADE AGAINST ISLAM which violates the principles that America is founded on.

That further they want to fight it against AMERICANS who pay taxes, hold jobs, raise families, because these bigots, racists and xenophobes simply DON’T LIKE THEIR RELIGION, and the Constitution does not grant the Government or YOU that regulatory power, and I SURE DON’T WANT people who know NO FACTS, and NO HISTORY, and NOTHING ABOUT RELIGION or the CONSTITUTION or HUMAN BEINGS to have that kind of murderously intrusive power.

In short what such posters display is every bit and more of the DANGEROUS RELIGIOUS FANATACISM they supposedly fear in AMERICANS practicing the Islamic Faith.

I would be surprised in fact because these posters are talking about PERSECUTING AMERICANS in AMERICA that they themselves are from America.

reply to post by Flighty


exactly the point, if they build it, you will definetely think lesser of them..wont everyone ??, and they know..they protest of not having a worship place build on ground zero because ..

1) they are against the attack..they condemned the attack..
2) if it is build, doesnt it shows that they are the one behind the attack ?

so by saying no to have their place of worshipping place being build on ground zero they are condemning both, the act and the message that they cordoned the attacked.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


then why not build a buddhist temple ?? or a synagogue ? or an indian temple or a church on ground zero?? the fact is the muslim does not want a a mosque on ground zero, be it american or what not is to show that they condemned the attack and so far as i know..it was always made the muslim extremist that does that..they took the first step to say no..

if it is a community hall, why don't call it a community hall for americans ?? why must it be a mosque ??

mind you..the days after the attacked..americans are attacking punjabis mistaken them for talibans...and these punjabs are americans too..they are not muslim..but sikh!..so explain this to me ?? if a simple head wrap can cause so much problem for a non muslim..tell me what happen if a mosque is built on ground zero ??

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

This makes absolutely no sense as the people building this Mosque ARE AMERICANS.

Proto, it has been widely reported that the fundamentalist Imam behind this planned Islamist center is traveling to Islamic countries looking for financial backing to build this mosque. If the American Muslims were behind this project, they could easily raise the funds to build this without foreign donations. His trips are sponsored by our State Department and funded by taxpayer dollars. This man is not a moderate Muslim, his well documented statements are inflammatory and extremist. This would be in the same realm as erecting a mosque on the Temple Mount. Oops! Been there done that.

From Wiki:

In 691 an octagonal Muslim building topped by a dome was built by the Caliph Abd al-Malik around the rock, for a myriad of political, dynastic and religious reasons, built on local and Koranic traditions articulating the site's holiness, a process in which textual and architectural narratives reinforced one another.

Like the "Dome of the Rock", this Islamic center is not meant for merely understanding the Muslim faith and worship, the exact location is to reinforce the emerging Muslim dominance in the US. Other religions have historically done the same around the world, that does not mean that we need ignore it now.

We have seen this exact scenario played out in Europe. Moderates flee to non-Islamic nations hoping to lead western lives, they are followed and infiltrated by fundamentalists, the fundamentalists eventually emerge to impose Sharia in these nations. It's a waiting game. They wait until they have the voting majority and boom, hoisted by your own democratic pitard. The majority of American Muslims are moderates but they will all fold when the fundamentalists assert themselves. Their book tells them to and that's how the fundamentalists eventually assert their dominance. This is not a we "feel your pain" moment. Just my opinion.

“Ground Zero Mosque” Imam to travel Around the World on your Dime

[edit on 11-8-2010 by Hemisphere]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


That's not really the same, that's a straw man.. I never said americans should burn every mosque and kebab stand in the country. I'm saying it's a touchy subject and building it there is only gonna cause more trouble.

I think I remember you arguing against people drawing pictures of Mohammed, well this is kind of the same thing.. sure we've got all the right in the world to draw him but it's inviting trouble so why do it just because you can?

Besides I'm not even speaking on my behalf, I'm merely pointing out that I understand why some people are pissed off and that I find it perfectly reasonable from their point of view.

I don't believe muslims orchestrated 9/11 so from my perspective it isn't that big of a deal, but I understand why other people react the way they do.

This smells like a plot to divide and conquer, ramp up fear and anger for the coming conflict with Iran.. it seems to me that TPTB in the US have done their best to provoke and trample the people the last few years.. this might just be another provocation to be used as a tool against us all.







If (allegedly)extremist americans flew a plane into the biggest skyscraper in Dubai, and the muslim population were enraged.. do you think they would let their government build a church on ground zero?

I wasn't explicit enough in my last post, what I meant was.. imagine if the WHOLE situation was the complete opposite of 9/11.

According to the Saudi Arabian government the hijackers were nutty christian fundamentalists from America, but in reality they were Saudi Arabian black ops units, a false flag as a pretext to war against "Great Satan". Further, to drive the point home and enrage the muslim population even further they use their money and influence to build a church on ground zero.. would that be right? Wouldn't they be absolutely foaming with rage? Would they let that slide?

Of course.. this scenario would only be the opposite of 9/11 if 9/11 really was an inside job.. so if you don't believe that then that's that.

Gotta stop now and go to sleep before I get caught up in a conspiracy conundrum.. if I haven't already.

reply to post by affeyee

then why not build a buddhist temple ?? or a synagogue ? or an indian temple or a church on ground zero?? the fact is the muslim does not want a a mosque on ground zero, be it american or what not is to show that they condemned the attack and so far as i know..it was always made the muslim extremist that does that..they took the first step to say no..

Let us not pretend this is anything other than the bigotry and religious persecution that it is.

Today an article appears on the Breaking News Forum about an Islamic Center being built in Tennessee that ‘alarms’ people. So the truth is it’s not about ‘where’ Muslims are building Mosques and Community Centers but that they are at all, in the eyes of the people who vocally oppose them on these unconstitutional grounds.

Further like most of the anti-Mosque people posting to this thread, you haven’t researched the issue because the Mosque in question is already there. It’s an expansion of an existing Mosque with the addition of a multi-faith, inter-faith community outreach center. Further it was never slated to open on 9-11. Further it’s blocks away from where the World Trade Centers stood.

So if you got so many bad facts from biased news sources wouldn’t it stand to reason that they are misconstruing these facts to manipulate you?

Do you like being manipulated towards bigotry and persecuting others and abandoning constitutional principles, because whether you understand that you are or not, you are, when you make assessments on purposefully false and inflammatory sources of information?

While many anti-mosque posters are worried that Muslim Americans are being manipulated, and are out to manipulate Americans, what is evident is that most of the anti-mosque protestors are being manipulated themselves already, with bad information, incomplete information, and falsehoods.

So who is the real enemy the people manipulating such people to abuse and abandon the U.S. Constitution and attack their fellow Americans for NO REASON or the people who want to build a inter-faith outreach center that just happen to be Muslim and happen to be Americans.


[edit on 11/8/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by Hemisphere

Proto, it has been widely reported that the fundamentalist Imam behind this planned Islamist center is traveling to Islamic countries looking for financial backing to build this mosque. If the American Muslims were behind this project, they could easily raise the funds to build this without foreign donations. His trips are sponsored by our State Department and funded by taxpayer dollars. This man is not a moderate Muslim, his well documented statements are inflammatory and extremist. This would be in the same realm as erecting a mosque on the Temple Mount. Oops! Been there done that.

Rome pays for many Catholic Churches to be built.

American Jews pay for many Synagouges to be built in Israel.

China lends America money to pay for it's war of Muslim Attrition and securing Oil, Minerals and Drugs.

Now if we applied the same standards American Jews would not be able to help fund anything in Israel.

Israelis could not help fund anything in America. Rome could not help fund anything in America. China could not help fund anything in America.

If you have a 'hot button' lets say you are obese and people who call you 'fat' make you angry. You still get to make the choice whether people who call you 'fat' make you angry.

So if someone is angering you it's in fact you, because you have every right and ability not to be angry if someone calls you fat.

The most common argument in this thread is that it's insensitive to Christian-American sensibilities to expand a mosque so close to the former World Trade Centers.

So in other words people who feel they are being baited and reacting to the bait.

Yet it is not radical Islamists baiting them, it's neo-conservative and Christian and Jewish bent commenators and publications misconstruing everything about the events that are baiting them.

It is they themselves who are choosing to react to that bait, and allowing someone and not the Muslims to 'push' their own 'hot buttons'.

Push them to the point that even normally 'moderate' members like yourself, are prepared to TRASH the CONSTITUTION even though you often post against people TRASHING THE CONSITUTION.

Like it or not, the nation is based on seperation of Church and State and permits no religious test.

Now you want the State to prohibit certain types of religion by limiting where and if they can build facilities for that religion.

Now you want a test, a test that says if you are Muslim you don't have a right to have a religious facility where ever you want.

Now while many of the organized xenophobes and bigots flooding this thread, all of whom are relatively recent members (what a surprise) against the Mosque, you know yourself from being a long time member and knowing my posting history I am anti-religion personally. ALL RELIGION.

Most of the people opposed to this are opposed to it FOR RELIGIOUS REASONS and just as guilty as being religiously fanatical as any other sect or religion.

Me being anti-Religion does not equate into me being anti-Constitutional and anti-American and saying NO ONE of ANY FAITH can worship or have a church.

In fact while I question the people of ALL RELIGIONS as to the validity of their text, you know I support anyone's decision to believe in a God or follow a Religion.

Outlaw one religion and see how long it is until you are down to ONE RELIGION that might not be the religion you want.

The true enemies of America are the ones who either through deliberate manipulation or gross stupidity would like to trample the constitution and start regulating religion through the state.

That is not the Muslims in this case they are building a multi-faith community outreach center for inter-fellowship purposes.

That would be the so called bigoted Americans who don't want to see that happen because it is the Muslims building it.

It's very simple to understand once you stop letting people manipulate you along emotional hot button lines, and with attempts at peer pressure and just do what any good American does and that's follow the Constitution.

With so many problems facing us, this is yet another example of how some members imagine they are 'awake' and will fight the New World Order and the Powers that Be on one front, and will become unthinking easily manipulated pawns to their agenda on another front.

Either outlaw and ban all religion, and amend the constitution to do that, or permit the Constitution to exercise the wisdom of NOT ALLOWING AMERICA to be divided along religious lines and Americans to be persecuted along religious lines.

Honestly I have seen no rhetoric from the Islamists that is half as inflamatory and provacative and insulting as the rhetoric coming from anti-Islamists and anti-Mosque types on this thread.

As you know I call it as I see it and don't let dogmas interfere.

Thanks my friend.

By the way there are those who 'understand' but few who 'understand, that they understand' which is why people who often imagine they are awake are so easy to manipulate through emotional hot buttons and fall prey to the very things they imagine they are fighting against.

You know as well as I do when you look at the posting history of most of these people they are only on ATS to argue for bigotry, war, religious persecution, etc.

They don't represent true American Values and they don't represent the Majority oppinion they just try to coordinate their activities to make it appear that they do.

Don't become their victims.

They aren't interested in Americans or helping Americans, they are interested in getting Americans to pay and die to do their dirty work of a war of Muslim Attrition.

Thanks.

reply to post by TheLaughingGod

That's not really the same, that's a straw man.. I never said americans should burn every mosque and kebab stand in the country. I'm saying it's a touchy subject and building it there is only gonna cause more trouble.

Actually what you are now doing is saying you can't use a strawman argument against a strawman argument, and your argument is a straw man argument.

One in which you want to hold millions of tax paying, law abiding American citizens accountable for the actions of 19 non-Americans that have never been proven in a court of law.

So in reality all you are actually doing is saying accept no strawman argument but your own.

Here is what I accept the U.S. Constitution which seperates church and state and allows for no religious test PERIOD.

I just wanted you to see you are using a strawman argument selectively and applying standards to do so that there was a much more compelling reason to use in the past in other conflicts and times of trouble but they weren't used the way you would like to see them used now.

Why? Because they are anti-Constitutional and would have led to the persecution of innocent AMERICANS.

That's why.

Once again America's enemies are those who are against it's constitutional principles, individually or collectively.

You know which category you belong on that one.

Thanks.