"We Muslims know the Ground Zero mosque is meant to be a deliberate provocation", page 3

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

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They actually weasled a bit by saying they thought the city or NY would be better served if an alternate location could be found but that, "... we didn’t say we were opposed to it, okay?” Link

However, that didn't stop all those opposed to it from using the ADL statement to imply/infer a very different meaning.

One CNN corespondent was so dissapointed in the ADL's stance that he returned an acheivement award from the ADL he was given a few years ago, and the money that came along with the reward.

It's pretty clear the Anti-Defamation League is in the Defamation business itself.

Americans sure have lost their way with these politically correct double standards.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

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Maybe you can display a map showing where this is going to be then?
The title of this particular thread says GROUND ZERO and I think you'd have to be living under a rock to not know where that is.
And there is a huge difference between a national park or monumental piece and a PLACE OF WORSHIP as in church, mosque or synagogue on the grounds where this mass murder was perpetuated.
I'm sure there are more appropriate places to put a mosque in N.Y.
Or are you saying this isn't a mosque but just a community centre?
if not , maybe you should start another thread about it because I'm trying to stay on topic and respond to the contents of this thread.

As for being manipulated, you sound pretty manipulated yourself.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

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How sad, evidently you didn’t read that the Mosque is only part of a multi-faith community center that is what the site is really about.

How in the world is a mosque a "multi-faith" center? A mosque is a religious center for Muslims. Even the Muslims in this article admit that!

By the way do you know what denomination Timothy McVeigh was? Should Oklahoma City prevent any churches of that denomination from being built there?

Timothy Mcveigh didn't attack holding up a bible and wasn't motivated by religion. Its a completely absurd comparison.

and show them what their religion is really about.

Yeah, building a mosque on ground zero, on September 11th isn't a very good way of doing that. If these were Christian terrorists and it was a church, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. It would NEVER be allowed to happen.

The only thing that trumps violence, and the only thing that truly solves differences, is dialogue and communication, and the proposed Community Outreach Center that incorporates the proposed Mosque is designed to promote communication.

What communication is that?

"we don't care if it hurts the victims of an Islamic attack, we're going to shove this mosque down your throats"?

Why cant they build it somewhere else?

It's not anywhere near or on the foot prints of the fallen buildings.

Part of the plane landed in that building. Its being opened up on September 11th. It LOOKS like one of the towers for # sake!


[edit on 10-8-2010 by Hudson]

reply to post by Flighty

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Yes and the title is quite misleading, it's a shame you haven't actually read any of the building plans for the Liberty Towers that are actually going on ground zero.

The community center being built is blocks away.

Emotions are running high in New York city, over a proposal to build a mosque and Muslim community center just blocks from ground zero.

CNN.COM

Blocks from ground Zero is not ground Zero.

In fact almost every news story out there on this clearly stipulates within the first paragraph or two the words 'near' and 'blocks away' so no it's not at ground zero.

So what else don't you really know about this?

Maybe you ought to find out.

This is all topical by the way, as the headline and premise of this whole piece is false for the sake of inflaming emotions.

Originally posted by Hudson
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

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How sad, evidently you didn’t read that the Mosque is only part of a multi-faith community center that is what the site is really about.

How in the world is a mosque a "multi-faith" center? A mosque is a religious center for Muslims. Even the Muslims in this article admit that!

Once again maybe you ought to read about the project and it's community center (much larger than the mosque) from a reputable news source that isn't promoting the story in dishonest and biased ways for cannon fodder, for those who are prone to become cannon fodder.

It's clear you are more interested in telling others what to think in regards to this issue than actually learning about this issue yourself.

Lots of information out there that would give you a more balanced picture on this. The facts, as opposed to the raw emotions that threads like this and the story that frame it are meant to conjure up.

Intelligent people 'respond' intellectually to facts, not so intelligent people 'react' to emotional manipulation.

Epic failure on presenting any facts in your piece.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

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Once again maybe you ought to read about the project and it's community center (much larger than the mosque) from a reputable news source that isn't promoting the story in dishonest and biased ways for cannon fodder, for those who are prone to become cannon fodder.

Maybe you should stop watching CNN and taking the words of this imam at face value? Maybe you need to stop being so purposely dense and lobbing one red herring after another?

Epic failure on presenting any facts in your piece.

Its not my piece. It was written by two Muslims.

Tell me, why does CNN continue to call it a "community center" (just like you) in stead of a Mosque? Because you're trying to mislead people.

Intelligent people 'respond' intellectually to facts, not so intelligent people 'react' to emotional manipulation.

In my experience, the people who call themselves intelligent and intellectual, tend to be thew most nieve and most easily manipulated. It doesn't make you smart to ignore inconvenient facts and regurgitate the imam's talking points.

The fact is this mosque could be built anywhere else, but they wont because its meant to be a provocation. There is nothing about this mosque thats bringing people together, or making people more sympathetic to Islam. You know this and yet you still support it because you think defending Islam makes you "intellectual". I'd be willing to bet your take on Christians isn't near as "nuanced".


[edit on 10-8-2010 by Hudson]

reply to post by Hudson

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Timothy Mcveigh didn't attack holding up a bible and wasn't motivated by religion. Its a completely absurd comparison.

Timmothy McVeigh was also given a fair and open trial and legal representation.

The truth is that no, these people building this community center stand accused of no crime.

By your own admission then all white people with crew cuts should be suspect of terrorism as you seem to want to find a common denominator to make one person's unproven crimes, something that others that 'might' possess some common traight should be ridiculed and slandered with suspicion for.

It's called stereo typing and bigotry and when you add religion to the mix it becomes xenophobia.

Thanks.




[edit on 10/8/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

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It's called stereo typing and bigotry and when you add religion to the mix it becomes xenophobia.

I wondered how long it would take you to regress to the race card. You've been trained well by your propaganda media.

This has nothing to do with stereotyping or bigotry. It has everything to do with respect for the dead and families of victims. Nobody is saying the mosque cant be built just about anywhere else. Just not on the graveyard of 3,000 Americans killed by extremists motivated by the Islamic religion.

[edit on 10-8-2010 by Hudson]

reply to post by Hudson

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Part of the plane landed in that building. Its being opened up on September 11th. It LOOKS like one of the towers for # sake!

The planes that disintegrated on impact? Sure they did, sources and proof please.

No by the way it is not being opened up on September 11th, and you failed to source your quotes that it is being rammed down people's throats.

All of these assertions of yours are easily debunked when you read some credible news accounts on this matter.

This is ATS not Romper Room try to deliver some facts please.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

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Yes, They do appear to be, but we know why/ And it was Fareed Zakaria.

I also have that linked in this thread here: The War for Your Mind: "Ground Zero Mosque".

Also to your points a few posts up...well said about how it seems that many people don't seem to think Muslims can read the outright hate and vitriol and lies online. Shall we pull some examples? There are hundreds of thousands. That surely must make they feel great. But it's by design.

Goes to the same delusion, I suppose, where some politicians don't think they'll see them saying we're at war or going to war for god.

[edit on 8/10/2010 by ~Lucidity]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

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The planes that disintegrated on impact? Sure they did, sources and proof please.

You're ridiculous. Everyone knows parts of the plane were scattered all over the place. Like the engines and landing gears, which were launched in to this building.

Here is a bunch of pictures:

www.google.com.../11%20plane%20engine&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1280&bih=843

www.nytimes.com...

“The location [next to Ground Zero] was precisely a key selling point for the group of Muslims,” and quoted Rauf as noting that they got a property “where a piece of the [9/11] wreckage fell.”

www.aclj.org...

(Washington, DC) – The American Center for Law and Justice (ACLJ), which is representing a New York City firefighter who survived the 9-11 terrorist attacks, said today's vote by the New York City Landmarks Preservation Commission is deeply offensive to many of the victims and families of the 9-11 tragedy. By a vote of 9-to-0, the Commission, appointed by New York Mayor Bloomberg, failed to landmark a historic site near Ground Zero - a site where the landing gear of one of the hijacked planes from 9-11 crashed through the roof of the building. The vote bolsters plans to build a $100-million, 13-story Islamic mosque on what many consider to be sacred ground.

Originally posted by Hudson
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

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[quote/]It's called stereo typing and bigotry and when you add religion to the mix it becomes xenophobia.

I wondered how long it would take you to regress to the race card. You've been trained well by your propaganda media.

This has nothing to do with stereotyping or bigotry. It has everything to do with respect for the dead and families of victims. Nobody is saying the mosque cant be built just about anywhere else. Just not on the graveyard of 3,000 Americans killed by extremists motivated by the Islamic religion.

Less time than it apparently took you too. Since your whole opening piece is based on nothing but, and all your arguments.

Mosque’s Plan To Expand Near Ground Zero Sparks Debate
Imam Behind the Effort Draws Praise From Jewish Leaders

ForwardTheJewishDaily.com

What's that headline, it's an expansion of and not a brand new mosque? Oh my!

Looks like you know nothing about the actual community center and mosque.

Tsk, tsk.

You might want to read about the COMMUNITY CENTER THEY ARE ADDING TO THE EXISTING MOSQUE!



[edit on 10/8/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by Hudson

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It says where a piece of the 9-11 wreckage fell. Not where a piece of the planes fell. 9-11 wreckage included papers and dust that floated all over the city.

Is English not your first language?

Originally posted by Hudson

Part of the plane landed in that building. Its being opened up on September 11th. It LOOKS like one of the towers for # sake!

Ah...someone's seen this proposed ad from the shrieking harpy...

Also covered here.

Fake misrepresentation...fake date. Effective though, eh? Proven right here.

Here's a more accurate approximate size of the center, more to scale.


The location is not exact though...remember there is no line of sight view from the proposed location to ground zero.

Back to the OP...we'll see what others have to say. To every point, there is a counterpoint.

[edit on 8/10/2010 by ~Lucidity]

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

---

Yes, They do appear to be, but we know why/ And it was Fareed Zakaria.

I also have that linked in this thread here: The War for Your Mind: "Ground Zero Mosque".

Also to your points a few posts up...well said about how it seems that many people don't seem to think Muslims can read the outright hate and vitriol and lies online. Shall we pull some examples? There are hundreds of thousands. That surely must make they feel great. But it's by design.

Goes to the same delusion, I suppose, where some politicians don't think they'll see them saying we're at war or going to war for god.

[edit on 8/10/2010 by ~Lucidity]

It's pretty sad the distortions people make out of all this stuff, the center was never set to open on 9/11 but that fiction was invented by a New York Post Collumnist Andrea Peyser.

Like the rhetoric war on Iran that has been going on for years its just people misconstruing things on purpose hoping those who read it react emotionally and not intelligently and start searching out the facts.

The truth is the Mosque was already there it's a community center they are adding to the facility as a community out reach center.

I can well imagine why some in the military industrial complex wouldn't like Muslims debunking a lot of the myths that propogate hate pieces like this thread.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

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Thanks for the tip on Peyser...so May 13 is now the earliest date I've found with that reference. Guess she's our new source of the fake date, overtaking this congressional candidate's ad (link), which uses the date and is a piece of work in itself.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

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Less time than it apparently took you too. Since your whole opening piece is based on nothing but, and all your arguments.

No, I didn't. The thread is about Muslims who are against the mosque. Another inconvenient fact for you to ignore.

It says where a piece of the 9-11 wreckage fell. Not where a piece of the planes fell.

This ridiculous sentence exemplifies why you should be ignored as a troll. The plane became wreckage when the Islamic terrorists crashed in to the towers. The landing gear flew out and landed in this building.

The truth is the Mosque was already there it's a community center they are adding to the facility as a community out reach center.

You just keep spinning lies. There is no mosque there.

[edit on 10-8-2010 by Hudson]

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

---

Thanks for the tip on Peyser...so May 13 is now the earliest date I've found with that reference. Guess she's our new source of the fake date, overtaking this congressional candidate's ad (link), which uses the date and is a piece of work in itself.

Yeah the Drudge Report caught the Peyser lie on the 9/11 date.

Drudge.com

It's funny how the politicians are always trying to sell us some false notion of security.

They can't even stop a housekeeper from coming over the border, with a couple pounds of marijuana in her backpack courtesy of the smugglers who got her to our border, but they are protecting us from deranged violent jihadists.

Sure they are.

People sure are easy to manipulate.

Hard to believe in the information age.

But oh so true. Even once these things are proven false some politically biased tool comes along and puts them all out there as fact again.

Repeat a lie a thousand times and it becomes the truth- Marcus Cicero

That is exactly what these people love to do.

Then they cry when you call them out on it, and call you every name in the book and swear you must be with 'them'.

Hard to believe people promote that as a lifestyle.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

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Then they cry when you call them out on it, and call you every name in the book and swear you must be with 'them'.

By "they", you mean you right? Or do you think you have a special pass for calling people bigots, xenophobes and racists?

You've ignored every relevant question posed to you, just like this imam. You're just spinning someone else propaganda. You're not above it all like you seem to think.

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