Hidden Hand Message - Law Of One - Discussion!

reply to post by Annee

If Love is God and you don't believe in God - - then what?

Yes - Thought is Energy Creating.

even if one does not believe in god, god is still love, and that love still resides in one.

We are all one ocean waving.
The ocean is deep and unfathomable, calm and still.
Individuals image that they are separate from the ocean, flapping about looking for the ocean of tranquility.
We are waves, waving at each other.
Waving at ourselves.

We are one tree, with many leaves.
We wish we were that leaf over there.
Only suffering can result in wanting something else.
There is no something else.
This is it.

Its not as important in understanding the issue of Oneness, in the various ways people mean it. At the Higher Levels we are in Unity, its more important to avoid the traps. If Oneness is perceived as loss of self, then I don't believe we're one in that way, we are in Universal Understanding and Unity. But what is, is. So to speak. Just dont allow someone to make a suggestion that would make you choose something that might not be in your best interest. We can fall into illusions if we're not careful.

But it seems that everyones understanding becomes more of the divisions in ideas here, in a sense. What is, is, there is a Perfect Divine Plan, however we may define divinity (one Creator above all the universes as in Love/Infinity itself, or the Infinite Family, Grown up in Love as I quoted from ET_MAN's post, growing up, in Unity).
Whatever definitions are used, there is a Perfect Plan.

Love and helping others, lending a helping hand, is the most important growth we can have. Seeking our way, and discovering how we can improve our lives and skills with others, if possible.

I'm reading the Cassiopian Wave Series, and there is a part in chapter two i beleieve, where they go into STS and STO, presenting us as the Lucifer group that fell wanting physciality. Desires, wants, wishes are the things that make us STS.

I tend to hold earth like physicality planets as schools and even reform schools/prisons, much like ET_MAN

It went on to say that Oneness or any reward or good feeling, I guess like experiencing joy in family,is STS. That we are to be completely dettached robots wtihout any feellings at all, but give. That was my interpretation of this material anyway. Maybe someone will correct me in what I was thinking. To me this is akin to being a robot, not even a person at all. Well, sufficient to say, the whole universe disappeared for me. That is not how I see things. I was wondering how others think of this.

]

I was wrong about Adonai and I am truly sorry for what was said about him. Thus I am making a public apology and want to verify that he is not dark nor evil.

Again many apologies and sorry for what was said

Kind Regards

M

Originally posted by redgy
reply to post by Annee

 

If Love is God and you don't believe in God - - then what?

Yes - Thought is Energy Creating.

even if one does not believe in god, god is still love, and that love still resides in one.

Well actually that would be your belief.

Originally posted by chezs

Originally posted by Annee
reply to post by chezs

 

If Love is God and you don't believe in God - - then what?

Yes - Thought is Energy Creating.

If Love is God and you don't believe in God, you are lying.

I do not believe in Atheists. Atheism is ridiculous, lack of belief in God is impossible. People
share thoughts. Its that simple. And if people say they do not believe in Love, they are lying just
the same.

Sometimes questions are not for the sake of the answer.

Sometimes questions are about the "frame" the answer is placed in.

If Love is God and you don't believe in God, you are lying

I'm afraid I must disagree with you here, Chezs. I don't believe that Love is the binding force of unification between all living things, nor do I believe in God, a Creator, or some kind of All-Father. I am quite atheistic in my beliefs on creation: that being that our existence began as an accidental chance occurrence, and through our collective subconscious we have made ourselves into something powerful.

I do not believe in Atheists. Atheism is ridiculous, lack of belief in God is impossible

It is quite easy to "not believe in God", as I myself am one such person who does not believe in God. My brother is even more skeptical, denying God, the soul, spirits, and all other pseudo-scientific claims. Carl Sagan, Richard Dawkins, Stephen Hawking—among many, many others—are all admitted atheists who do not believe in God.

To lack belief in God is possible, and, it is quite a popular stance to take these days.

People share thoughts. Its that simple. And if people say they do not believe in Love, they are lying just
the same

You really have to define what "love" is to you.

Are you talking about the biological and chemical processes of mating and attraction which draw two, or more, like-minded individuals together for sex, living together, marriage, and possibly producing children? Because if so, then you're wrong. No one "believes" in love. Love is a natural chemical process carried out by the brain. It is animal instinct leftover from earlier epochs of humanity where massive mating and breeding was a necessity to survival.

If you're talking about some ethereal "love" which metaphysically unites all people together via it's elasticity and all-encompassing area... well, you'll have to tell me how this noumenal "love" came to be, how we feel it and recognize it, and why—if all people partake of it—do we so mercilessly torment, kill, antagonize, and terrify our fellow man.

If "love conquers all" and it "cannot be denied", then there are millions of suicide bombers, mass-murderers, serial killers, psychopaths, cult leaders, rampaging lunatics, disturbed individuals, people driven to suicide by bullying, type-A personalities, dictators, rapists, charlatans, cons, criminals, thugs, and muggers who apparently defeated this unifying love.

Most time Atheists contemplate God at an even higher percentage than those that claim to
believe in God

This is so laughably false that I have to take a moment to catch my breath. Have you ever visited the West Burrow Baptist Church? Have you ever scanned the RaptureReady internet forum? Have you ever read Conservapedia? Have you ever been to a mega-church, or a weekly youth group? Have you ever been to a Televangelist Healing Session before?

Atheists do not contemplate God at a higher percentage. They contemplate whatever their work is: whether it is advancing biological understanding, studying astronomy and cosmological origination, teaching ethics and philosophy, or working regular 9-5 jobs in town. It is the religious who contemplate God all the time. And it is the religious, upset by the atheist not believing the same as them, who say that the atheist thinks about God all the time.

Love is always the measurement. And many Atheists are as well,
very loving people. What does that say?

All it says is that atheists are nice, caring, loving people who want only the best for the world they have accidentally been born into.

They know of God many times

God is not love. Love is a chemical process created by the neurons and synapses in the brain.

Not because they believe they are superior in Knowledge, that is most often not the case

Being smart, just as being uneducated, does not always mean you're right or wrong.

The quantum theory came from a Very Devout Christian, Max. Both his grandparents were as well theology professors etc.

Unfortunately, just because a Christian discovers something scientific does not mean his faith is scientific. If the discoverer of something automatically made it of the same nature than architecture, mathematics, language, the written word, agriculture, and much more used to help you survive and communicate would be atheistic as it was invented/discovered by people who did not believe in God.

Max Plank had a very Omnipotent Universal idea and belief in God

This is from Wiki's article on Planck and his religious beliefs:

"The God in which Planck believed was an almighty, all-knowing, benevolent but unintelligible God that permeated everything, manifest through symbols, including physical laws."

Do you see the part I emphasized in there? Planck's God was not a sentient force, or even one which can be known through anything but it's symbolic imprint upon our Universe. So to use Planck as an example of evidence for the existence of your Love God is a false premise. You know your Love God, so it cannot be Max Planck's unintelligible god.

Our thoughts of God are always most potent in absolutely any other area of our minds inventions

What does this even mean? That God is most potent in the parts of our mind we don't use? Please clarify the statement for me.

Quantum theory has now bled into every other area of Science. And yet many science oriented people will claim disbelief in God and yet accept theories of such as quantum physics/mechanics while the foundation was created by a man who had strong faith in God, which was most potent in his scientific theory which allowed it to move so freely within every other realm

You really need to present some corroborative evidence demonstrating that accepting quantum physics/mechanics requires a belief in God. You have falsely misaligned the discovery with the one who discovered it.

The foundation of Max Planks belief and Understanding of God is what made quantum theory what it is. Our foundation of belief in Love and God is what always makes everything in our life, what it is

You need some serious citations on both of these claims. Find me a reputable source that says "Max Planck discovered Quantum Physics because he believed in God".

Then find me a reputable source that says "Love is all you need—don't work, don't breathe or eat or sleep— just Love. And everything you need will be given to you straightaway."

Originally posted by The Magicians Apprentice
I was wrong about Adonai and I am truly sorry for what was said about him. Thus I am making a public apology and want to verify that he is not dark nor evil.

Again many apologies and sorry for what was said

Kind Regards

M

Great.

He still needs to work on his communication skills.

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


Thank you Wandering Scribe for your response and insight of being Atheist.

I found the post quite insulting. And in negative energy.

reply to post by Unity_99


another side might be where the oneness is seen as becoming too self absorbed, where awareness comes through to self, but solutions for the all never manifest as actions for all.
more of a way as all becoming like those in the know, but still doing nothing about it. similar to how the p.t.b rule now, instead becoming like many as one rule and all still holding a service to self connection that can overpower this life of unity for others.
not to say that unity and oneness of all or that actions for others cannot become as a positive or work in being as beneifit for the all.

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


Love is far more than a biochemical. Holgrams are constructs/technology. No Creator(s) could design body human for example, with all its range of emotions, without understanding them. And since everything is thought this has implications for a sense of reality, not just here, but in the Beyond as well. For the energy configured into the shapes of nature, cosmos, and animals, plants, minerals and us, is also construct, therefore an agreed and shared sense of knowing, seeing and understanding this. So we can "see" without eyes. We can "feel" emotions without body, or biochemicals.

There are many kinds of love, the kinds that make us all happy, even if we're chosing to chase after power and sts pursuits, there is the kind of love that makes us happy, and its good too, for it can lead some back on path.

But love is something that gives to others, because it recognizes the value of another, as in being family, recognizes that we feel the same, that everyone is experiencing a journey that we could be on ourselves ,or our own family, save but for circumstances, and sometimes choices. Love is something that gives to others. Even a cranky old man, who is hard to be around, and oft times some of the elderly can be short tempered and judmental, their stamina is fading, and everything is very hard on their nerves. But I've known a few cranky people with hearts of gold, who would give you the shirt off their back, and known a lot of happy, outgoing charmers, who manipulate others. Emotions can very much be biochemicals and depend a lot on our physical circumstances, but Love is something else.

The job is to find what it is, really. Note I'm just sharing my own view.

reply to post by Annee


You are welcome. Atheism should never be looked at as some kind of "evil" view to have on things. I use my atheism to keep myself honest. Whenever I experience something I run it through the lens of atheism first, to see if a scientific rationale exists which could explain what happened to me. When the atheism lens fails to explain what has happened, then I begin to look at spiritual, religious, and metaphysical possibilities. If we do not find a way to secure checks and balances for ourselves, than we become the kind of person who will believe in anything. And, we all know that a man who believes in everything, will fall for anything, and understands nothing.

reply to post by redgy


Well my point is, we all have different views. On the true Higher Levels, outside this holographic construct mulitiverse, there is a reality,

When we follow a thought too intently, it could take shape in a free will universe where thought creates, it could end up being a trap even ,where we end up giving our power away and take some time to undo, ages even, though time itself an illusion.

I have long known that people "fall into their dreams", their thought constructs.

We need to yearn for the kind of world we wish, but at the same time, our own souls know the way home. I have always felt this. Jessicamystic, who I recognize, and even to the point that I know we've been together in dream work, during sleep, meetings and activity of some kind. I woke up from one dream where I knew we were all somewhere very special, filled with love and concern for each other and sharing answers back and forth, but the whole thing was blanked out, as if a censor bar was on it. She's family and I love her a lot.

She said in one of her wonderful videos: (paraphrased), that perhaps we needed to approach death more like meditation, finding that calm within and saying, Home. I wish to go Home. Our souls know where home truly is.

ET_MAN shared with me that the stars and planets, core are like portals kind of, phone line home, projector, and doorways. He said that the core of earth, something like going very fast around it, and then somehow we turn the fabric of space time inside out.

Now I imagine this is done spontaneously in the tunnels and the various nde experiences some have had.

But if we're really trying to be positive and humbly asking, praying seeking to find our way each day, to help others, we need to think of HOME. And ask for our Higher Self. Even if someone tries to put you in a device or a soul catcher, just keep up, home. And forgive self and others always. Seek the knowledge that there are other ways to make up for things, healing and lending a helping hand is better than being in the negative channels. Having that kind of faith and love. So don't give into shame and despair, for even if there is making up to do, there are positive ways of doing it. If you have true generosity of heart, don't sentence yourself to what you would not wish to sentence even your "enemy" to, and that "enemy" is truly a teacher in disguise, or at least its a positive way to see him/her.

Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
reply to post by Annee

 

You are welcome. Atheism should never be looked at as some kind of "evil" view to have on things. I use my atheism to keep myself honest. Whenever I experience something I run it through the lens of atheism first, to see if a scientific rationale exists which could explain what happened to me. When the atheism lens fails to explain what has happened, then I begin to look at spiritual, religious, and metaphysical possibilities. If we do not find a way to secure checks and balances for ourselves, than we become the kind of person who will believe in anything. And, we all know that a man who believes in everything, will fall for anything, and understands nothing.

Oh absolutely! Many just can not grasp that Atheist simply means No Belief in a God/Diety/Theism.

However - some Atheist do have varied spiritual beliefs - - or spiritual energy beliefs.

I believe everything is energy. Energy that evolved into intelligent consciousness. That thought is creative energy. Nothing really exists but energy. That all physical is a creation of thought energy.

I still only see it as science of energy. I in no way believe or support some omnipotent God. However - I often refer to the "Creator" - - as a reference point of beginning.

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Although I also believe there are layers and layers and densities and vibrations of these creations. And sub-creators.

But still - - only energy based.

Originally posted by Unity_99
reply to post by Wandering Scribe


What you are speaking of, Unity, is not Love. It is human compassion, understanding. It has absolutely nothing to do with Love—biochemical or metaphysical—and everything to do with being able to relate to your fellow human. However, if you read my entire post, you'd know that I pointed out millions of examples, under specific classifications, of people who cannot relate to and feel compassion for their fellow human. They do not possess this mystical Love that you speak about.

For every "cranky old man" you cite, who really still knows how to help and care for the people of his community; I can cite a John Wayne Gacy, or a Unibomber. For every loving, compassionate Buddhist monk who gives entirely of himself I can cite a Jeffrey Dahmer, Robert Pickton, or Charles Manson. And for every Mother Teresa and Mahatma Ghandi I can either point out their flaws—Teresa's charity never aided a single dying child, Ghandi was sexually deviant—or I can point to a Hitler, or a Stalin, or a Xerxes.

No, I am afraid that the reality is: people are born (not created) neutral. They have no affiliation with Love or with Hate. It is a combination of both Nature and Nurture which makes people one way, or the other. A child raised to love the world and all it's inhabitants will grow up on the side of Love. A child raised with racism, bigotry, egoism, and by murderous individuals will know only hate, bigotry, and vile actions. Love has no more bearing on our world than Hate.

We are the ones who will make the ultimate choice.
Be the architect of your own destiny.
Don't let anything—not Love, not Hate—lead you.
Lead yourself.

~ I.G.S

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


It is the truest form of Love. Love is compassion, and its not human. It is part of the whole construct, lessons and reality beyond.

Id rather not think of people's shortcomings. I don't see anyone as perfect in this world. I read quite a bit about Ghandi's struggles and even that he finally gave up all sexuality, which apparently wasn't with his wife's consent and I never thought it was exactly right, but I don't hold any judgments over him on that. That is something she needed to work out and talk to him about. We all have struggles in all sorts of areas on earth.. Sexuality is a program that quickly gets distorted for some, and if you do have a partner, the Tantra, is probably the best way to heal things ups.

As for Mother Theresa, I'm not at all sure of what it meant, what she was able to do or see within the programming of the Church, or even what was arranged there, over her head. She still provides an example to many.

reply to post by Annee

Many just can not grasp that Atheist simply means No Belief in a God/Deity/Theism.

The religious minded have a very, very hard time understanding that people can believe differently then they do. Such is why here in America it is almost impossible for a non-christian politician to get elected. Even though church and state are separated, people don't understand how a non-Christian politician can possibly lead them. It is a common psychological flaw of the masses: they see themselves as a microcosm of their country/world/universe.

Atheism, however, is just stating that God doesn't matter to you, because you're human and quite capable of achieving greatness through your own merits and strengths. The religious-minded, however, also tend to take anything they disagree with as an attempted persecution, and personal offense against themselves. Again, associated with their falsely attributed sense of self-importance in the world.

some Atheist do have varied spiritual beliefs

You are right too, most atheists are very spiritual, because spirituality doesn't require God in the slightest. Just listen to Neil deGrasse Tyson in one of his monologues:

We are all connected,
To each other biologically,
To the Earth chemically,
To the rest of the Universe atomically.

Atheism, science, spirituality. Not religion, God, or faith.

I believe everything is energy. Energy that evolved into intelligent consciousness.

I've been trying to figure out how to state this exact same belief on this board for some time now. It is not God which has made us and put us here. It is the natural, accidental, processes of nature which have created matter, and energy, which has evolved over untold millenniums into form, then substance, then life, then consciousness, then sentience, then super-evolved into all manner of spiritual existence.

You put it very eloquently, thank you.

That thought is creative energy. Nothing really exists but energy. That all physical is a creation of thought energy.

I agree, in enough ways, to not have a problem with this statement. I do believe that thought is not the only force at work though, as consciousness—thought—is not what I believe to be the primordial substance of our current form and existence. I see thought as the rebirth; that is, through thought we can reshape our spiritual body and destination. My own studies, and experiences, have demonstrated this to me.

I still only see it as science of energy. I in no way believe or support some omnipotent God

I believe in gods, and goddesses. But I do not believe in God. All of the deities were once sentient creatures just like us. They ascended into their current forms, and have been recycling their essences for millenniums now. Eastern thought—specifically Hinduism and Buddhism—and, again, personal experience, supports this theory for me. Energy is the root of all, and through proper cultivation and study of it we may hope to change the higher and lower states of our being.



You should talk more on here. I think you've got a lot to say, and most of it makes more sense then a lot of what I've been reading on here. I hope you keep posting.

~ Scribe

reply to post by Unity_99

Hi, Unity.
If you have the time, you should have a look at this link:
Merged threads on Illuminati - Hidden Hand
(It's a google cache, in a 'print page' format. The original thread is from cassiopaea.org but doesn't seem accessible anymore and some of the pages in google cache are missing.)

Someone, obviously new and naive, attempts to bring the Hidden Hand material to the attention of the Cassiopaeans and gets shot down in a million pieces, though he's quite feisty himself, at least at the beginning. Unfortunately, he eventually backs down and toes the line and probably lives happily ever after as an enlightened Cassiopaean himself. But I digress...

What is interesting about this thread is what the author of The Wave - and main honcho of the site - has to say about the mental health of not only the original poster, but of Hidden Hand himself. There's a pot calling the kettle black somewhere in there, but I'll let you make up your own mind.

So, trying to reconcile all these different materials into one cohesive whole would be a complete waste of time as the author of The Wave dismisses Hidden Hand as a schizoidal psychopath.

Incidentally, the magnificently self-effacing poster who recommended The Wave to you (just a wild guess) is mentioned several times on that thread though I'm not sure they realise it's the same person.

I recommend you read the whole thing but if you are short on time, typing schizoidal in your ctrl+F search box will take you right to the relevant post.

For me, as a sceptic, it was highly entertaining and even chilling at times. You might enjoy a viewpoint from outside the 'bubble' as much as I did.
Be well.

Originally posted by Wandering Scribe

I believe in gods, and goddesses. But I do not believe in God. All of the deities were once sentient creatures just like us. They ascended into their current forms, and have been recycling their essences for millenniums now. Eastern thought—specifically Hinduism and Buddhism—and, again, personal experience, supports this theory for me. Energy is the root of all, and through proper cultivation and study of it we may hope to change the higher and lower states of our being.

~ Scribe

Gods & Goddesses - - - I just use the term sub-creators. Definitely support recycled. Maybe I just want to avoid the term God completely. I absolutely believe there are "entities/beings" that are more evolved (in both physical and spiritual) then we are. And as varied in personalities as humans. Both benevolent and malevolent - - and everything in between.

Yes - I do believe in physical also - - natural selection and responsibilities within a physical world. But - that energy - is still the root of all (as you say).

Originally posted by Wandering Scribe

You should talk more on here. I think you've got a lot to say, and most of it makes more sense then a lot of what I've been reading on here. I hope you keep posting.

~ Scribe

Thank you.

I say when I have something to say.