God Doesn't Have a Religion

reply to post by Mary Rose


God is just REALITY in my eyes, or more specifically what we don't understand about reality; some people refuse to investigate, so they just call it "God".

If Reality is God, God is the laws of motion, the speed of light, the chemical reaction, the spinning of the planets, the shooting of a star.

It seems every time science un-covers something new, how earthquakes happen, how the sun sets......"GOD" seems to hide a little further into the unknown.

Funny that, funny how God in the bible only had the knowledge of men at the time, no mention of physics, no mention of any aspect or study of reality....just "man was made from dust" - ROFL.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


You seem to be defining reality in terms of the subject matter of science. Science is a huge part of reality and full of wonder and delights to behold.

But God/God-Mind encompasses all that is - there is more to life than science - such as relationships.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by 547000

 

I don't have a gospel, nice try though. I don't want everyone to believe what i believe, i might believe smoking is good, do i mean to impose that on people? No, my personal beliefs are not to be indoctrinated or imposed on anyone, my belief in science has the nessasary conviction of the evidence to prove it's truth, if someone wants to deny the truth, far be it from me to stop it.

Ahem. You are an anti-theist. You do have a gospel whether you openly admit it or not. Your "opening of minds" consists of nothing but you preaching things you can't prove.

But if someone has a belief and it doesn't make sense, or it is based on no evidence whatsoever, i will certainly challenge it.

Well, I do have personal evidence for myself, but you call it lies and delusions, along with everything else you have faith can't be possibly true. Other people have encountered God or spirits, but according to you they are delusional because you say so. Is it really that hard to believe that other people have reasons to believe in a religion apart from faith?

Nice try though, trying to make me look as though i want everyone to be an atheist or believe what i believe.

Why is it you call people who don't agree with you names? It sounds just like a fanatic calling people heathens and evil. Face it, you're no different from the people you loathe. If people don't agree with your views they're stupid to you.

Just remember you can be an atheist and either dislike or like homosexuals or women. Christianity makes "God's" judgement your own judgement. Allows people to belief wicked things and cast judgement on certain people just because they live life a certain way.

You cast judgments on all theists whether they agree with fundamentalists or not, whether they are Christians or Muslims or not. You cast judgments just because they believe in things you don't. You call them all bigots but you're a bigot all the same, because you generalize a whole group based on the actions of a few.

Religion pre-disposes you to have these types of prejiduces because God's words are objective in the eyes of the believer, there is evidence (the bible) to say why we should hate homosexuals and why they should burn in hell. Because evidence is scripture according to the believers, if it says you must do this, you MUST do it.

Anti-religion predisposes you to have certain types of prejudices. Because religion is evil in the eyes of a believer, there is evidence to say why we should hate all theists and why they are all evil.

I thought we already covered this. Not all theists follow the Mosiac laws. There are many Christians who don't pick on homos and women, let alone all theists.

We will just forget about the old testament shall we? Because God said it was ok to rape and enslave foreigners, must be true, i'm sure that's the moral thing to do. And i'm sure you'll just respond with "i don't believe in the old testament" well why not? it was written by men, in the same way the new testament was.

We covered this too. Recap: The laws of God are not the laws of man. Men made their own laws. To most Christians you are saved by grace, not by the keeping of laws. That is why most do not follow the Mosiac laws.

As for why I believe in Christianity: I had an experience that was evidence enough for me to convert me from an unbeliever.

And why do you lump all theists with those of Abrahamic faiths? Not all theists are of those faiths.

Remember, being an atheist i don't promote the sick rules and regulations like those in dictatorship absolutist religions.

OK

Remember philosophy and science doesn't require you to have faith in anything, you have the tools of reason and the objectivity of evidence to found your beliefs.

The only thing that is known for sure is Cogito Ergo Sum. The rest reuires faith.

Simply saying there is a God, here are his rules it quite simply childish and absurd.

Well, if it isn't an attempt to prove there is a God, it really isn't. If you already know there is a God, and know which religion is closest to Him, it's not at all childish.

That's why you never see me getting irate with Deists or Agnostics.

I think you get irate because you don't think there can be a reason to believe a God, and that reason can lead you to a particular faith. You assume everyone believes for no reason other than faith.

[edit on 14-8-2010 by 547000]

reply to post by 547000

I think you get irate because you don't think there can be a reason to believe a God, and that reason can lead you to a particular faith. You assume everyone believes for no reason other than faith.

Again, No problem with Deism, You can believe what ever you want to believe in, even without evidence, but when a belief without evidence causes a person to have predjiude (whether they show it or not) to certain people or the way people want to live it their live, that is wrong.

I don't have a gospel or a faith, I don't beleive there is an absolute set of values of how to live your life. I won't preach it to anyone, but i do believe in human compassion, love and accepting the way people live their life without thinking they are going to hell or that i am more moral than them. I'm not homophobic, i don't think everyone is born sinners, i won't opress people that don't opress others,

Again, people were intolerant of Nazism, does that mean they have their own gospel, NO! its because they know what Nazism teaches is evil and intolerant in itself, why wouldn't people want to get rid of that.

I'll admit i can't prove there is God, the same way i can't prove someone can fly when no one is looking. But what i can prove is that the rules and regulations of God cannot be proved as absolute. For one, morality is subjective unless you believe in God.

Muslims believe THEIR rules are correct
Christians believe THEIR gods rules are correct
People who worshipped Zeus probably thought he was correct.

Funny how different countries, different areas on earth and at different times show comepletly different moral structures and regulations, none is the same.

Is that not proof that God is subjective, because it depends which Man is describing God.

Peace out


[edit on 14/8/10 by awake_and_aware]

[edit on 14/8/10 by awake_and_aware]

I'm glad this time we could have civil conversation. Thank you.

I believe God judges based on all things, even what is in your heart. There are no secrets from Him. Morality could very well be based subjectively. But this is what I think based on NDEs. I don't think homosexuals or unbelievers will go to hell.

Again, people were intolerant of Nazism, does that mean they have their own gospel, NO! its because they know what Nazism teaches is evil and intolerant in itself, why wouldn't people want to get rid of that.

That's not what I meant by your gospel. I meant when you say all people who have claimed to have experiences something divine is delusional or a liar because you believe so. That there is no God or afterlife because you say so. You can't prove those things and you preach it as though they are facts.

Comparing all religion to Nazism is a bit over-the-top. Not all religions are based on the Abrahamic faiths nor are all beliefs in them based on Mosai=c Laws.

[edit on 14-8-2010 by 547000]

reply to post by 547000


God is subjective. Subjective to religion or if you're a deist subject to what you believe God is.

Christians believe that the rules of God are objective God says this so it is TRUE.

If you don't believe homosexuals are going to hell etc. then you don't believe in full word of the Christian God, why label yourself with any religion when so many of their rules and regulations and morals are often flawed.

For example, love and respect your mother and father, what happens if they beat and rape you?

There's always two sides to every point.

Also, it teaches homosexuality is wrong but then teaches love is beautiful etc.? That doesn't make sense to me.



[edit on 14/8/10 by awake_and_aware]

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by 547000

 

God is subjective. Subjective to religion or if you're a deist subject to what you believe God is.

Christians believe that the rules of God are objective God says this so it is TRUE.

If you don't believe homosexuals are going to hell etc. then you don't believe in full word of the Christian God, why label yourself with any religion when so many of their rules and regulations and morals are often flawed.

For example, love and respect your mother and father, what happens if they beat and rape you?

There's always two sides to every point.

Also, it teaches homosexuality is wrong but then teaches love is beautiful etc.? That doesn't make sense to me.



[edit on 14/8/10 by awake_and_aware]

Read my post. In Christianity you are saved by grace, not law-keeping, because the laws are not of God. And not all churches teach the same things.

I choose Christianity because, because of my experience, I believe Jesus is a very, very special man. I believe He is who He said He was.

reply to post by 547000


I believe Jesus either did or didn't exist, The bible states some human compassion and understanding Jesus taught, that's great, i didn't say that was a bad thing. I could even take away some good moral values from the bible without believing He was the son of God or infact that God exists. I definetly won't believe that we are all born sinners and that Jesus died for my "sins" whatever HE thinks my sins are.

Without the bible, i certainly do not condone killing, raping or bearing false witneses. I don't need to believe in God to know those things are not desirable traits in members of any progressive civilisation.

That's good. I didn't say you need to believe in God for that.

reply to post by 547000


Cool - something we agree on.

Peace.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


www.clarifyingchristianity.com...

www.scienceinthebible.net...

www.creationists.org...

three links for science in the bible.

God is the author of science and conscience.

Science is the sovereign laws of God in action.
Conscience is the moral law of God written on everyone's heart and free will decides whether we will follow the moral law on our conscience or not.

Do not get sensuality (homosexual anal orgasms are more intense than vaginal orgasms) and sexuality confused with spirituality of God.
There have always been "religions" which regarded the orgasm as "heaven, divine" (take Islam for example), and even hired whores to copulate with during their church services.


Links

Scientific Foreknowledge in the Bible

Scientific foreknowledge

The Signature of God: Evidence that demands a verdict

Foreknowledge of medical science in the Bible

Refuting criticisms of Scientific Foreknowledge in the Bible

Science vs. the Bible


[edit on 14-8-2010 by slugger9787]

Originally posted by 547000

I choose Christianity because, because of my experience, I believe Jesus is a very, very special man. I believe He is who He said He was.

By the way - - I have no problem believing Jesus existed. I just believe in the Watchers - - and believe Jesus was an evolved off planet being. And I don't think he was the first or only one.

It is man who used and twisted these teachings - - as well as teachings before him - - for their own selfish and political purposes.

This is why I have a problem with religion. Man needs to be responsible for man - - man needs to be responsible for man - - and conscience of his actions. Man does not need a scapegoat to be either right or wrong.

reply to post by 547000

I choose Christianity because, because of my experience, I believe Jesus is a very, very special man. I believe He is who He said He was.

Hello there

I too have had some experiences, that allow me to know that Jesus is a great teacher and he is who taught me the understanding of the highest order, which is 'offering of self'.

But I have to be careful, to believe everything that man has told me about Jesus. Man had an agenda when setting up churches and organization to spirituality.

Even Jesus taught that we 'grow' in faith. We must 'gain' understanding and discern things through the 'Holy Spirit'.

When I dared to Discern the Bible through the Holy Spirit....I learned that the Spirit was few and far between in the words of the Bible.

I still study it more so then any others book....but what I study it for is it now teaches me to discern between things of earth/flesh/man and things of heaven/spirit/God.

I cant prove it to others of what I feel I learned through Jesus and the Holy Spirit. But I can say that I feel I was taught about reincarnation (the law of reaping what one sows) as well as blood sacrificing NOT being a part of a Divine practice that was ever needed.

Even the Bible talks about how the true God was not pleased with all of the blood letting and shedding that man was doing for sacrifices...and I think this is why Jesus was mad in the Temple, for man was still practicing things of earthly ways and was not understanding ways of things of spirit. NO matter how many times he would tell them their ways have been wrong...they would not listen.

So much so that we still are calling him a blood sacrifice, saying we dont have to carry our own crosses cause he carried it for us.

BUT...even HE says....to carry our own crosses!

In my experience, I felt His blood wash over me. Perhaps it is because I asked for direction--I asked for God to show me which faith is closest to Him--but I felt the blood wash my body. Maybe its just to show me Jesus' teachings is closest, or maybe His blood really was an acceptable payment for things that separate us from God. I think He really did die and was resurrected, and I think even the blood He shed at the cross was a significant detail. He wasn't just a teacher to me but the bridge between man and God.

Maybe it was the end of man's law and the beginning of God's grace. I still cannot fathom why a blood sacrifice would be significant or why it would be a price for the world. In fact, after that experience I was so confused that I was scared of hell before I felt love and light. I don't really believe in hell as traditionally described.

After reading many NDEs I'm convinced that hell is a place void of light and love, but that it is not eternal nor there to punish but to cleanse. Some people call it the Void.

[edit on 14-8-2010 by 547000]

Originally posted by slugger9787
reply to post by Unity_99

 

God created light, God created the many and the higher being is your soul in heaven, and God said love me and others.

That is a pyrmaid system, created by the renegades. Its all about profound equality, the Many In One, and its Quantum. I have a thread about this Holographic Univese/Simulated Reality School and space time in my signature.

reply to post by LeoVirgo


Jesus was and is God. The word of God made flesh, incarnate, who in His mission was to die on the cross as redeemer of mankind.

He delivered a new covenant (religion) between God and mankind.

If Jesus was a liar then he was not the Son of God.

If Jesus was not a liar then He was who He said He was, and who was prophesied to be.

reply to post by slugger9787


Funny that, the Muslims don't seem to think so.

And never once does Jesus mention he is the son of the creator of the universe...unless you can dig that one out for me.

As a fictional character (maybe based on truth) Jesus appeared to be a good man by SOME of the issues he talked about. Does that mean i should praise him?

I DO NOT... believe he is the son of "GOD"

I DO NOT....believe he died for my sins, nor do i think people are born as sinners, people are born and need guidance, not Jesus, not God.

If someone offered to barbarically die to absolve all my responsibility and then claimed he was the son of the creator fo the universe i would think he was insane, many other people would too. Unless gullible.

reply to post by 547000


From what I have observed, everyone has different experiences due to what they are in need of during this life. My mother, a devout Christian of 30 years, has an experience of a NDE....a 9 hour one of visions while awake as well as asleep, it was as if stood for 9 hours, in between here and 'there'. Some of what she experienced paralleled to some of the things her religion would of taught her...and some of what she experienced was beyond all religions as well as not parallel with her religion.

She always had a guide with her during this NDE...she called him Michael, her arch angel. She saw many loved ones, strangers, figures of beings that she called with Biblical connections (such as Abraham and Sarah and a 'new baby', Elijah, and even Jesus). Jesus called her 'daughter', gave her unconditional love, and also gave her a choice, to stay and walk through the gates, or to go back to her grandchildren. I cant hardly recap the experience in one posting, for the amount of details she gives over that 9 hour period are many.

Jesus took her to a 'field' (this is her word for describing where she was one of the times I asked her 'what are you seeing'). As she got closer, she saw the field was filled with blood. The scene changed a bit...for the filed became 'walled in'...there were walls around the field now, and blood was flowing from these walls. Other people appeared there now with her...all of them were dressed in white gown type clothing. At some time, Jesus and Michael her guide, both disappear from this field of blood...and the people frantically are trying to clean up the blood. There was obviously some sort of negative feeling going on here, as if the people were trying to fix a wrong...cleaning something up. She said it was awful, I watched her cry with her eyes closed, as I sat by her bedside. She then showed very terrified expressions on her face...I woke her (I kept having to wake her up all day that day, unknowingly she was having kidney failure). She later told me at the field, a woman came, apone a horse. She said this woman held a book and was writing in the book as she watched them cleaning up the never ending blood. I later asked her, what she thought this woman represented or was...her answer was simple, 'death'.

She was also had a experience during those visions of being back in time, in the days of Jesus. She was a family member of Piolate's wife and was there at their home during a time where Piolate grieved and was distraught over this man Jesus and the people wanting him killed.

This was just one of the experiences that caused me to 'second' guess that everything I am told by another man about Jesus...may not be a truth.

What is truth? I do not know. And that is OK.

Ive read about alot of NDE having a woman figure greet them, being their guide. I think its possible that we will see, what we are comfortable with for the most part, during NDE. There may also be a lesson there to be found, like things to still work on or make amends with ect.

So many cultures practiced blood sacrifices. To me this shows how 'primal' of a practice this was. I can see how the OT writings evolved from a changing people, its obvious in the things in the OT beliefs of the people that they came from Canaan as well as were in Egypt. Its obvious when Babylon becomes a bigger influence to them also, later in the OT.

The idea of a blood sacrifice is the scapegoat ideology that has been around forever. A way to 'escape' the 'sin' or wrong. Humans like to represent spiritual things, through the world of flesh (such as rituals). What humans are learning now though, is no ritual outside the own mind and heart, is needed for healing, for forgiveness, for showing 'God', we are aware of our deeds and thoughts, and are working to do better, become a brighter light, become more spirit then flesh. Just as Jesus is acclaimed to saying, 'the kingdom is within'.

I think there is good reason to say Jesus did not support blood sacrifices. Nor did he intend to be one. I think there is good reason to say that God never needed us to kill anyone or anything...for spiritual growth. I think Jesus taught that yes him and the father are one....but so are all of us...ONE. Knowing this....is the connection, for the Holy Spirit to then teach us, show us things, on personal path...just as Thee did for Jesus and many others of many lands.

We all still reap what we sow...that is also still in the NT. We sow what we reap because we are to learn. We learn by each carrying our own cross of Earthly things, the flesh life.

NDE are very interesting....but it does seem to me that there is no religion that ever can explain them all.

All my best
LV

Oh and thank you for sharing your experience!! I think part of a path..is sharing it with others....so thanks for that.

Originally posted by slugger9787
reply to post by LeoVirgo

 

Jesus was and is God. The word of God made flesh, incarnate, who in His mission was to die on the cross as redeemer of mankind.

He delivered a new covenant (religion) between God and mankind.

If Jesus was a liar then he was not the Son of God.

If Jesus was not a liar then He was who He said He was, and who was prophesied to be.

Im well aware of what man has acclaimed him to be. Thanks though...

Im saying I have reasons to not believe all of what has been acclaimed. I think we are all children of God, we are all of spirit and flesh, we all carry the life of the Holy Spirit within us.

My issue is many men did not like what Jesus said and taught. It seems to of gone against what the main belief was of that time. There are other contradicting texts about what Jesus was about. I dont believe there needs to be a new covenant, for I dont believe the old ones were truth of God. I dont think we needed to kill someone for Gods plan, as to make amends as if something ever went wrong with a perfect 'gods' plan.

Im not saying Jesus was a liar...Im saying I dont trust man to tell me the truth and I dont think God expects us to rely on man for truths, knowing how 'bad' man is (living for pride, greed, lusts, earthly desires ect, powers).

Just sharing...I have my reasons...I see Jesus as my brother, just as I see everyone on Earth as.

Mankind has been trying to make a man a God in every culture and time. I think we are growing beyond this 'practice' and evolving in our spiritual growth when we can stop wanting a man to be God.

Originally posted by Mary Rose
Organized religion is part of the problem we face on earth - not the solution. I think that many of the endless arguments people have where they're just spinning their wheels and getting absolutely nowhere in solving problems - is caused by people defending their religion.

In these times where a few people who consider themselves elite are trying to bring down nations so they can have a One World Government with their One World Religion with authority over us all, I worry about people trusting or distrusting information because the person sharing the information is not of the same religion as them. This causes people to be blind to things that it would be in their best interest to know. I think this is the role of organized religion. Through the hierarchy involved, it is a control mechanism. It is mind control.