Racism in the gaming industry in America?, page 7

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reply posted on 6-7-2010 @ 03:12 AM by dragnet53

Originally posted by K J Gunderson

Originally posted by dragnet53
reply to post by WolfofWar

Actually that is what entry level is for to sharpen your skills. It is also called internships as well. They teach you want you need to know to be successful.

But currently I am doing this right now and improving.

It is work in progress.

[edit on 6-7-2010 by dragnet53]

That is kind of the problem. You are complaining that you have not gotten a fair shake because of your race and yet what you hold up as some grand master work in progress is the exact same thing I can produce with the default random setting in VUE in about 5 minutes. I am not trying to really knock you but all you have shown is that you know how to install a program and run the demos. That is not going to make you stick out much from the thousands of other people that also have that software.

[edit on 6-7-2010 by K J Gunderson]

Install the program and run the demos!!!! LMFAO Dude, Now you're pissing me off!

reply posted on 6-7-2010 @ 03:14 AM by WolfofWar

Originally posted by dragnet53
reply to post by WolfofWar

Actually that is what entry level is for to sharpen your skills. It is also called internships as well. They teach you want you need to know to be successful.

But currently I am doing this right now and improving.

It is work in progress.

[edit on 6-7-2010 by dragnet53]

That is how a normal company works. Video Game companies are anything but normal. They are extremely high-paced and stressful. They only can produce one to two products at a time, and are forced for long stretches to overhead employee salaries and other expenses for months to years at a time until the game is finished to make a return. The sooner the release, the sooner they can report any extra profit to their budget. They cannot take their time to train unpaid interns with rudimentary art skills to get them to assist. It just doesn't work that way in the game biz.

Your work needs, well, work. A lot of it. You know what you need to do (how to use your applications) but you don't display the true skill of an artist, namely the creativity of one. Landscapes are nice, but they are sterile and stereotypical. You have to develop a style and really display some out of the world unique ideas in this stuff in order to stand out. Right now everything you showed me looked like you just pressed random on terragen.

reply posted on 6-7-2010 @ 03:18 AM by dragnet53

Originally posted by WolfofWar

Originally posted by dragnet53
reply to post by WolfofWar

Actually that is what entry level is for to sharpen your skills. It is also called internships as well. They teach you want you need to know to be successful.

But currently I am doing this right now and improving.

It is work in progress.

[edit on 6-7-2010 by dragnet53]

That is how a normal company works. Video Game companies are anything but normal. They are extremely high-paced and stressful. They only can produce one to two products at a time, and are forced for long stretches to overhead employee salaries and other expenses for months to years at a time until the game is finished to make a return. The sooner the release, the sooner they can report any extra profit to their budget. They cannot take their time to train unpaid interns with rudimentary art skills to get them to assist. It just doesn't work that way in the game biz.

Your work needs, well, work. A lot of it. You know what you need to do (how to use your applications) but you don't display the true skill of an artist, namely the creativity of one. Landscapes are nice, but they are sterile and stereotypical. You have to develop a style and really display some out of the world unique ideas in this stuff in order to stand out. Right now everything you showed me looked like you just pressed random on terragen.

yeah, But you see there is a thing called a focus in my field of study. They want you to do a specific job and do it. This is what I was told and like I stated even Disney stated I have talent and need to focus on one thing. Environments are stale and boring, but this is what I want to do.

reply posted on 6-7-2010 @ 03:27 AM by Erad3

The games by certain brands are racist! These brands are to blame.

There are some games that can be changed with the modification of character. This might be true for some, but not for all.

If games are staying prejudice then the future of gaming will be racist.

reply posted on 6-7-2010 @ 03:30 AM by WolfofWar

reply to post by dragnet53

no no no. Environments are not stale and boring. Your environments are stale and boring. Look at things like Red Dead Redemption, Halo, Dead Space, Cryostasis, Limbo, Braid, Shadow Complex, Battlefield, Crackdown, Brutal Legend etc. They run the gambit in styles. Photorealism, baroque, stylistic realism, impressionist, pretty much everything and everything. The thing they share in common is they imbue style. They present a sense of aesthetics, since of uniqueness, a sense of creativity and originality that the work you have shown (and I can only speak of what you have shown) is currently completely absent of.

What you have shown so far is the gaming equivalent of black velvet painting. Technically sound, I suppose (to some degrees) but lacking any true artistic value within it. You aren't using the part of your noggin that lets a unique world come to life. You don't learn that, you have that. It should come alive in everything you do, whether you are playing music, doodling or writing, it separates somebody who is technically proficient from an artist.

reply posted on 6-7-2010 @ 03:33 AM by dragnet53

reply to post by WolfofWar

Yes, I have seen all those and I know I can do better. Damn, lost all my confidence a few weeks back and now this anger inside me now wants to prove to dildos like you I can do better. Thanks for giving me the motivation now to work harder.

reply posted on 6-7-2010 @ 03:38 AM by WolfofWar

reply to post by dragnet53

Its the racists fault first, now it's our fault. Just accept it, maybe you aren't that good. Maybe you simply can't do it. Art isn't for everyone. The field is incredibly demanding. Right now you are with 90% of the rest of the masses of wannabe game developers. You went to school to be taught something that can't really be taught, they had no real curriculum so you threw money at them and they gave you nothing in return, besides a false sense of security, and now you can't find any jobs because the skills they taught you are remedial at best and you don't have any real underlying artistic talent to start. They suckered you in for your money and basically screwed your future. Welcome to college.

If you are really serious about it, the only way now you can get better is to start making games on your own. make some flash games, grab an Xbox DNA kit and develop some indie games. Practice and just try to get better. Maybe that artistic creativity is there in you, but if not, then the art side of games aren't for you.

reply posted on 6-7-2010 @ 03:43 AM by dragnet53

reply to post by WolfofWar

Now I am starting to realize something about you two you guys are bitter that I called out gaming industry as racists. Aww, but you see history always repeats itself in every shape and form.

LOL and I still laugh you guys think I am racist. I bet you would back in the day called out MLK JR. racist as well.

reply posted on 6-7-2010 @ 03:46 AM by WolfofWar

Nah, not bitter at all, because that would mean you actually had points. You still refuse to answer my one question that I had for you. It shows you have no answer. There is no racism in the gaming industry preventing you from joining, your lack of talent is preventing you from joining. You showed us the evidence already, now it's time to pack up and look for a new career. I mean hey, maybe you should go back and go into programming. That's an easy way to get into gaming.

And no, MLK was not a racist, but you still are.

reply posted on 6-7-2010 @ 03:47 AM by K J Gunderson

Originally posted by dragnet53
reply to post by K J Gunderson

LOL nope not racist. I even mentioned this thread to the people I know and they laugh at people like you calling me a racist.

Stop running in circles. You have not explained your claim that you did not become racist UNTIL...

You have not explained why you singled out white nerds and said they do not care for themselves.

The only people laughing are laughing at you.

We have been over this. You refuse to address either statement so they must say what I believe they do. Otherwise you would explain why they do not.

reply posted on 6-7-2010 @ 03:48 AM by K J Gunderson

Originally posted by dragnet53
Install the program and run the demos!!!! LMFAO Dude, Now you're pissing me off!

Too bad you are letting it upset you.

Vue Demo Pic used to show ease of generating for amateurs

Yours

reply posted on 6-7-2010 @ 03:50 AM by shearder

OK i just skipped through reading all 7 pages. I believe the OP really, though using video games, is concerned about not being able to progress in a career due to racism.

Here is my take on this - it is imo, only, so if necessary take it with a fist full of salt - however, living in South Africa we have the same sort of issues.

We have BEE and this affirmative action - all a load of absolute bollocks. I believe the right man for the job gets the job regardless of colour. BUT, with that said, may CVs have been read and jobs given to the "best" person who happened to be a black person. But 2-3 months down the line all that has been accomplished is the fact that that person has gold pens on the desk, drives a smart car and DOES NOT DELIVER! Generalizing? Yes! BUT it seems to be the norm!!! It it a cultural thing? And then you throw that person's butt out and you have union issues etc etc et.

I am going to keep this short because in my experience it is 95% the same!!! Unfortunately!!

The whole issue of why companies are not wanting to employ these people as much as previously but ONLY to balance the BEE numbers is because it costs them WAY to much at the end to even suggest that it is in their best interests.

I am currently in an environment where most of them are local government and let me tell you in ALL honesty they are about what they can get out of this - they are out of the office more than their white/other counterparts - they are typically milking the system.

Now yes there ARE guys who earn what they have and know what they are doing and in fact THEY are the ones who highlight their BROTHERS who make them look bad in general.

Is it a racial thing - perhaps - but unfortunately there would be some basis for it somewhere in the annals of time. I believe game makers would create games based on current trends and realities at the time - this tends to sell more games.

reply posted on 6-7-2010 @ 03:50 AM by K J Gunderson

Originally posted by dragnet53
yeah, But you see there is a thing called a focus in my field of study. They want you to do a specific job and do it. This is what I was told and like I stated even Disney stated I have talent and need to focus on one thing. Environments are stale and boring, but this is what I want to do.

Name your favorite game that is based in a wilderness with no buildings, objects, or structures of any kind. I do not doubt they exist but I am not recalling any right now.

reply posted on 6-7-2010 @ 03:56 AM by SmokeandShadow

I think procedural generation is where game design is heading. Hand built set pieces will always have their place I think, but the majority of game design ten years down the road will probably be procedurally generated. You need math skills and unique algorithms the likes of which the unreal and ID guys employ. Really, photoshop and maya/3dsmax will MAYBE get you're foot in the door, but you need sooo much more than what was shown on that demo reel. I saw way more competitive stuff when I toured the art institute in Tampa and those were freshman students. Not trying to bring you down, but you need to know where you really stand. I wouldn't want people telling me I am good at my instrument if in reality I wasn't up to par.

reply posted on 6-7-2010 @ 03:58 AM by K J Gunderson

Originally posted by dragnet53
reply to post by WolfofWar

Now I am starting to realize something about you two you guys are bitter that I called out gaming industry as racists.

You do not know what race I am and what you feel or think about the gaming industry has no impact on me. The next "Silent Hill" is coming out whether you cry about this or not. No skin off my back.

Aww, but you see history always repeats itself in every shape and form.

So black slavery in the US is on the horizon?

LOL and I still laugh you guys think I am racist. I bet you would back in the day called out MLK JR. racist as well.

Just try, just a little. If not for us or you, for your white best friend.

EXPLAIN THIS!!!!

Actually, I am not a racist at all until recently after just discovering how this industry seems to be working

If you were not racist UNTIL something, then you have been since. Explain how that means anything else. You said it.

and again..for your white friend...

I don't look like your average white geeky type look. I actually take care of myself and work out.

Explain to my why you would say WHITE nerds as opposed to just nerds if you are not insulting WHITE people with that statement.

Stop just blowing this off and saying your friends all laugh. Pretend you are an adult with an education and actually explain yourself.

I really do not think you can and that is the problem.

[edit on 6-7-2010 by K J Gunderson]

reply posted on 6-7-2010 @ 03:59 AM by dragnet53

reply to post by K J Gunderson

I don't even use Vue. Movie industry uses Vue and I do believe it was used in Avatar on some scenes. They want speed and excellence plus whatever it takes to get the job done. You also know they have software called Poser? It is a way to make life easier to generate generic humans. YOu guys really don't know what the hell you guys are talking about.

reply posted on 6-7-2010 @ 04:01 AM by WolfofWar

Originally posted by SmokeandShadow
I think procedural generation is where game design is heading. Hand built set pieces will always have their place I think, but the majority of game design ten years down the road will probably be procedurally generated. You need math skills and unique algorithms the likes of which the unreal and ID guys employ. Really, photoshop and maya/3dsmax will MAYBE get you're foot in the door, but you need sooo much more than what was shown on that demo reel. I saw way more competitive stuff when I toured the art institute in Tampa and those were freshman students. Not trying to bring you down, but you need to know where you really stand. I wouldn't want people telling me I am good at my instrument if in reality I wasn't up to par.

Nah, you simply cannot replace hand crafted worlds. Procedural generated environments are bland and without style or personality.

reply posted on 6-7-2010 @ 04:01 AM by dragnet53

reply to post by SmokeandShadow

I know and now Japan has come out with a basic holographic technology and I can see people headed that direction next. It will be so complex in 10 years that only ones that will be able to stay in are the "who you know crowd".

reply posted on 6-7-2010 @ 04:03 AM by dragnet53

reply to post by K J Gunderson

No shi~~ sherlock. I am working on those genius.

reply posted on 6-7-2010 @ 04:06 AM by WolfofWar

reply to post by dragnet53

Game designers don't use Terragen either...Well, you do, but you aren't a game designer.