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Yes, and how i say things is also related to my language difficulties. But you wouldn't know that, since you never argued in another langauge than your own.
This was a poor choice of word, but couldn't think of any better combination of english words, which could explain my point better. I never said that you claimed everything you said was the absolutte truth, but your explanations and arguments come of as if you think it's the absolutte truth.
This is both an example of you taking it out of context with the rest of my post, because later in my post i say "If you could admit, that your explanation isn't meant to be the truth but your opinion, i wouldn't see it as immature", with that said after the absolutte truth thing, i thought it would be pretty clear that i didn't mean that you ever said it, but that your argument come of as if that was what you meant, and it's an example of me not choosing the right combination of words, or just the right words, so i can get my explanation of my thoughts.
There are many example's of misunderstanding from your side all through our discussion. Sorry, if your insulted by that!!
"Your education is piss poor"
I would consider an example like that an indirect insult, and there are many more example's of this.
BTW, my quote's were taking from memory, not from actual quote's, because i really don't have the desire to do all that quote/answer thing. I'm not that interested in this discussion.
How is that an insult? You admitted that your opinions are based upon your experiences, research and education. If your education is causing to propagate erroneous false claims of another groups beliefs, then that education is extremely piss poor. Hi, I'm an Atheist. Or have you forgotten? Instead of telling me how I conduct myself or should, how about you make note of what I as an Atheist have to say instead of you determining that for me in such an inaccurate insulting way?
Maybe i missed something, where do i propagate erroneous false claims of another groups beliefs? If you're refering to the fact that atheist seem more hostile towards believers and that by me claiming that, it's uneducated, i don't see your point. I mean how is that uneducated. IT'S an OPINION!!! I state it as i see it. It's not a false accusation, when i see atheist does that and when i see you are doing it to me. Maybe you're not hostile, maybe you're blind to see it from my point of view. But you come of as hostile and making insults, talking down to me and claiming you don't while i do!!
They are NOT more hostile than the religious fundamentalist who take everything in the bible literally and thinks the earth is only 6000 years old, you're right. But when it come's to an believer who just like to point out why he belief God exist and why he thinks an atheist argument is wrong, it seems like some atheist take it personal and talk down to their God and indirectly suggest that the believer is unintelligent, he/she could just rather believe in unicorns or fairies. I understand that argument against an ignorant fundamentalist, but why to a believer who just seem to try and defend their believe in God and not claiming the earth is 6000 earth ol,d not claiming evolution is wrong, not claiming that all atheist are idiots, not claiming the bible is a 100 % accurate description of history, why talk down to them, indirctly insult them and their belief. The believers i refer to are probably more close to new age than religion.
They don't seem to insult the atheist so much as the atheist insults them. They maybe makes statement that atheism is a faith, but that's the closest thing they come to an insult. And when an atheist take THAT as an personal insult, i think it's immature. I didn't wan't to mention any names, that's why i stated it as are more general thing in my original post. But you could look through this thread one more time, and if you can't see what i'm refering to, i DO believe youre blind because of your bias.
Then i offered my personal opinion on the whole subject. You took it at something you needed to defend for some reason, where i just wanted to offer my personal opinions and probably discuss how hard atheist and believers have to look at it from each others point of view. You gave me two options which by your opinion was the only two reasons behind my original post.
Also, i don't think God is mythological, i believe in God but not the Gods i see as mythological, which include the God of the bible. I see God as an theory of the ultimate creator, we are here are we not? Somthing did start the big bang!! Life did start!! Also the God in personal experiences i see as evidence, like in NDE's, mystical experiences, etc. And i believe that the God of the bible reflects some true aspects of him/her/it, but not that he/she/it is him/her/that.
Your video with the atheist who had an NDE could be an atheist just lying because he wanted to prove that an person can still be atheist even after an NDE were one supposely feel gods present. If you blindly believe what he is saying whithout questioning his motives, i believe that's called conformation bias. I haven't seen any well documented cases were one wouldn't change his/her mind after, but of course i'm not denying that it happens, it probably does.
Oh and one last thing. I think you should look through my last post you responded to. You missed the point i edited in.
The only flaw i see is that i didn't reconize that the OP made an silly attack on the atheist, but what you pointed out as constradiction wasn't flaws, but you misunderstanding my point
Unless of course i see you making an extremly ignorant counter-argument
just seems a little TO proud of your atheism
I DON'T know you.
We can all change our immature behavior and negative thinking and i think we should.
may just some sort of brainwashed logic from your education.
Our understanding of the universe is extremly limited.
"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education." - Albert Einstein
I tend to agree with above quote!!
This is not a matter of believing or not believing, it is purely a matter of understanding.
I tend to believe people that live by their advise, not some dude who makes a theory based on a probably biased study, just because he is a scientist.
I would rather listen to those people in my life who come of as extremly more succesfull and happy and also seems to know everything about you and others, than some scientist, who made a theory, based on a study, but who come of as unhealthy, unhappy, etc. Sorry, that's just me!!!
I've seen scientist explaning thing's according to neuroscience and scientific studies. But when it comes to your mind, and emotions, it's all theory, no actual evidence
other than the placebo effect that is more an evidence that positive thinking is good for your body because positive thinking creates positive emotions.
The placebo effect points to the importance of perception and the brain's role in physical health. Placebo
I don't think negative emotions do any good for your body, they are either a symptom of negative thinking(focussing on bad instead of the good) or a symptom of something else that's not really healthy for you.
I have ALOT of people in my life, and what i see as different between them, is that the healthy and happy ones tends to practice positive thinking and really don't like to argu, the one's that like to argu gets almost sick when the see someone being extremly happy.
They use the same excuses you use, like it's all new age #
negative emotions are good for you, etc.
Still, they never really get anywere, keeps arguing with their boyfriends/Girlfriends, the guys gets angry because they really don't understand a girls mentallity, the grils keeps creating drama to satisfy themself mentally and emotionally because the unknowing guys don't have a clue as how to do that. They are stuck on a unfulfilling and unambitious job and seems to the rest of us as pretty unhappy inside.
So excuse me for listening to my more succesfull friends, which make more and more money every year, seem to be incredible happy and healthy where my more negatice friends keeps complainig about illness, body pain, obesity, headaches, stomach problems, etc.
Also, is everything which you consider "New age" wrong and BS? If so, who is generalizing now and making false accusations.
There you go doing it again. "The fact", no, it's not a "fact". Please don't hand me some BS language barrier mistranslation excuse there either. Fact is not a hard word to screw up. Nor have I made any claim to *NOT* be talking down to you. I've made that point adequately clear by ousting you as a hypocrite for doing the very thing you are bitching about. Do they not teach reading comprehension and common sense in Denmark?
Ah yes, because all non-fundamentalists are just peachy and nice guys. You need a good look at reality here. Your sitting there admitting right now to not seeing an actual perceived problem. Your admitting to cherry picking between groups and beliefs and laying claim that a problem exists with one group in particular and then pretending that defense against this BS claim is somehow proving your ill thought out crap spouting
And I clearly pointed out that your opinion is ill thought out and wholly uneducated on the subject.[
So now Atheists lie? Your telling me that all those religious people aren't lying about their NDE's, but if an Atheist remains an Atheist after an NDE then he MUST be lying about it or have ulterior motives for lying? No... that's not insulting at all
Garbage, really. You keep claiming I don't understand your point whilst making the same arguments continuously without offering up any further clarification as to what your point actually is. Enough of this language barrier excuse. Your English is just fine.[
So now any defense is going to be considered an extremely ignorant counter-argument? No, your not insulting at all.
Now it's wrong of Atheists to be proud of their beliefs, or rather lack of beliefs?![
Your damn right you don't know me.[
Yet you show no signs of doing so yourself, knowing full well are doing it and admitting to doing it, but you think everyone else should stop it.[
Now your trying to say my government is teaching me brainwashed logic that doesn't compare to the status of Denmark's high education ranking?
Apparently not limited for you! You believe that some higher entity called God initiated it all. If you knew the history of religion, you possibly wouldn't have that opinion
That's interesting considering your learning seems to be impacted severely and yet, your education system is so much better than mine. I think that's called irony
Understand this. There is no reasonable requirement to assume the universe had any beginning whatsoever be it by natural process or by intelligent naked sky daddies in human form that cares deeply for the human race as if they were the only species in need of care in the entire universe
So now your claiming that scientists don't live that way, that they just arbitrarily make up biased theories?
Really now? Care to point fingers as to which scientists your specifically referring to? I'd really like to see this mythological unhealthy and unhappy scientist.
Right ... Even when they can strap you in a chair and induce and NDE experience, it's still not evidence that NDE's at the very least are caused by some physical interaction occurring in the brain. You do realize that and NDE is a NEAR death experience, right? That means you have not actually died, that means your body is still alive and functioning to some extent.
No, that is not even accurate at all. How about you learn something about it before arguing it, would that really hurt?
I thought you said you did thing's like research? It seems like your lying now and you haven't bothered to research anything about it.
Focusing on bad instead of good? You mean optimism vs pessimism? Explain where in biology and neuroscience that pessimism impacts the body in a harmful way
I don't know them personally, nor their particular lifestyles or personalities so I can't comment specifically on them, thus the point is moot. You keep making mention that I am being negative and that negativity is not good. I'm hardly ever sick, I don't even remember the last damn time I've been sick. I'm betting that it's a crock of garbage and that there is some lifestyle differences between your friends that your either dismissing or not perceiving readily based upon your biased assumption that pessimism impacts the body in a harmful way.
It is! Negative emotions isn't even in the damned dictionary! This is some new made up fad term that is not defined at all as an actual term! Christ, do they not have dictionaries in your country?
There is no such thing as a negative emotion, you have emotions for a reason.
That's called life. People argue, get depressed or throw tantrums. It's NORMAL.
Sweet Jesus! Negative emotions cause all that! Can you please point out any verified research that show those claims to be true?[
I consider the new age movement to be new age and any newly defined terminology that is not commonly accepted or existent in a dictionary as being BS, yes. Is that generalization, no, it's showing disdain for made up garbage in which no scientific evidence exists to verify the veracity of that made up garbage. Like your lovely little word "negative emotion".[
Originally posted by intrepid
reply to post by sirnex
Ok sparky. I'm an agnostic. I need PROOF that god exists. I also need proof that he DOESN'T exist. Can you prove that to me without any culinary references that he doesn't exist? THAT'S the bottom line you all are missing.
First I must admit something. I don’t understand half of the word you are using. When I look at a English online dictionary, they use words which i don’t understand to explain the words. This I should probably have explained from the start and it’s the source as to why I accuse you of misunderstand my point. It’s hard to give an counter-argument to words you don’t understand.
This I why I had to answer. “Please don't hand me some BS language barrier mistranslation excuse there either” This statement is so incredible ignorant, you don’t even know it. I admit, fact was a poor choice of words, nothing more. Don’t put so much into it, it’s just a word.
“Do they not teach reading comprehension and common sense in Denmark?” This question looks like an indirect insult. I’m not sure what you mean with reading comprehension, but I’m pretty sure, that reading something and understanding the meaning of what you’re reading is different from country to country and language to language. I mean, a English word which translates to a Danish word, could give the appearance of having the same meaning, but while the English or Danish word have multiply meanings the word that it translates to does not. Also the combination of words can be confusing. For example the sentence, I have to take a leak, if you would translate that directly from Danish to English it would go like this “I have leak”
You treat my comment like it was an personal attack on you or something. I’m still not sure what adequately or ousting mean. I have an idea when I put it into the context of you comment though.
You still haven’t answered my question. Where do i propagate erroneous false claims of another groups beliefs? I do propagate claims that you seem hostile towards believers, how is the against your groups beliefs?
I am kind of cherry picking between groups and beliefs, yes.
But that’s because of my own incredible experience and my own research. It’s not really cherry picking, it’s more like reconising what’s true and what’s not according to evidence and of course my own extreme experience, which I didn’t really want to mention cause I didn’t see it as a important issue-
What I said was that some(NOT ALL) of the non-fundamentalists gets unrightfully attacked by immature atheists. But I would like to take back the immature thing, cause I don’t know them, that was just me making sense out of why atheists would do that, when they seem to promote how mature and intelligent they are!!
Oh I can imagine how worse it is, in a biased mind. But one that shouldn’t care if God exist or not? Is it really because you don’t WANT to have faith, that you think of it as an insult.
My view of the statement that there is only one God, is that it’s a mistranslation of sort, and really means we are all one.
Did you look through the thread and saw what I was referring to? So you could see, that my assumption that some atheists were way more hostile than some believers, wasn’t uneducated.
I’m not sure what “illogical fallacy” means.
But I do however see signs of intelligence all over the universe and in nature. The system it has, it just seems so perfect.
And when you really become one with nature, and not reading a book, sitting on your computer, etc, but really get down and dirty. You can just feel that something is diffidently there. Well, I have only had this feeling after my experience though.
Actually I agree with the whole last part, no argument there.
Are you telling me that ALL atheists are honest? He could have ulterior motives for lying? Don’t you even consider that possibility? So does religious people!! However when most religious people tell about their NDE’s, it tend to defy their religion. If you cared to read my link, you would know that!
I must say yes to this also!!! I’m kidding, I just don’t see pride as a good thing!! And no, not because the bible talks against it or something like that. Pride can keep you from evolving I think.
HAHA!! OMFG!! Am I trying to say that? Not by a long shot. Denmark’s education system could be just as biased and brainwashed in their logic. I’m saying that our notion of logic could very well be extremely flawed, without us even realizing, cause we are brainwashed from an early age about what logic is and what it dictates. Or our limited minds, just doesn’t understand something, because our notion of logic is really limited to our mediocre intelligence
I have very good reasons for believing in a higher entity.
I call it God for a lack of a better word. I know the history of religion, which is why I don’t belong to one. I have actually studied the history of religion a lot. However, the one’s writing history books could be lying, the lost scriptures and gospels they have found could have been extremely good fakes which we have yet created the right tools for busting. And our carbon dating method could be flawed in ways we don’t understand yet according to our limited logic. Not saying it’s the case, just thinks it’s a possibility. Oh, and not believing it's the case either.
I agree with you statement about it not having an beginning.
However you generalize the meaning of God. You cherry pick the God from the Bible when it fits the argument, but other times compare him to other Gods, which wouldn’t fit the argument if you cherry picked them. I don’t think God has ever cared about only us. God is the name I choose to call the consciousness that seems to dictates our universe. I don’t know what to call it so you could possibly understand. I understand it because of my experience, but before that I couldn’t wrap my head around it to.
but I also have this inner knowledge now which you do not.
I don’t think you would understand if you never had an spiritual experience yourself.
I have taken lsd and mushrooms when I were younger. It is NOTHING like that.
Compare it to the knowledge that you know your reading my post right now, you almost now it’s real right, but if you’re alone and had no video camera, how could you prove it to others that it was real if I delete my post. The only thing differently about that experience of reading my post, is that my experience felt more like waking from a long dream, it felt extremely more real than this do, and the experience of writing this post feels like an illusion now, like if you begin to lucid dreaming after you just awoke from your dream and fell asleep again.
Can you imagine having 360 degree vision, feeling one with everything, being several places at once, experiencing no time, where everything happens at once while at the same time it takes an eternity, not communicating through words, but through understanding of each other, like telepathy without words involved. This is the best way I can explain it. I’ve tried like a million different acid drugs when I were younger, and the experience can’t be compared to a drug induces trip or a dream.
And no they’re not just making up some biased theories. They are making their theories based on biased studies. When it comes to the health department, scientists tends to go in that direction that screams “I’m getting funded by the pharmaceutical industry”. There have been a lot of scientists and doctors, busted for that lately in the Danish media. I don’t know if it has been in the media of other countries, but WHO have been proved to be extremely biased in their studies, in some Danish articles.
Well, maybe if scientists did live that way, they would be pumped full of drugs. And probably not be that healthy, It’s funny how in America, every mental challenge, like depression, gets treated with drugs. THANK GOD, we don’t do that in Denmark.
Don’t know the name of the specific scientists. But when you see biographies in viasat history and the Danish science channel, they tend to have all sorts of illnesses and die from an bad one. And in their biography they tend be portrait as negative thinkers, while the once being portrait as positive thinkers, looks like they never get sick and looks extremely happy. Of course there are no certainty in life. Both sides has it’s bad apples as you call it. And I can’t know with certainty that my believes are true. But I just follow the pattern.
If you have seen a study like, I would like to see it to.
n the laboratory, NDEs can be induced using right temporal lobe brain stimulation, the application of hallucinogenic drugs, or extreme gravitational forces. These laboratory experiments prove the NDE to be valid. Whether it is a valid afterlife experience is another matter altogether.
It’s obvious that when you’re brain shut down, that you’re NDE occur, if you trigger the same points in your brain, that tells the rest of your body that your about to die, it’s no wonder you get and NDE, but I wouldn’t go as far as calling it a direct causation of physical interaction occurring in the brain. But maybe I just down know properly what the word means.
Oh, so now, wikipedia is the most credible source?
Wouldn’t you agree, that this perception is a positive belief in the outcome. I agree, that the placebo effect is unreliable, but it does not change the fact, that the placebo effect have been documented to take away symptoms, enhance the immune system and sometimes cure deceases, all because the subject has an positive expectation on the outcome. I think It is accurate, how do your quote proof otherwise?
Do you know about the nocebo effect, the opposite of placebo.
“It was a subject-oriented adjective that was used to label the harmful, unpleasant, or undesirable reactions (or responses) that a subject manifested (thus, "nocebo reactions" or "nocebo responses") as a result of administering an inert dummy drug or placebo, where these responses had not been chemically generated, and were entirely due to the subject's pessimistic belief and expectation that the inert drug would produce harmful, injurious, unpleasant, or undesirable consequences”.
Is this considered evidence that pessimistic beliefs and negative expectation/thinking, is no good for you? Or don’t you, as I, take wikipedia as the most credibly source?
Well, I’m not really talking about pessimism, but instead talking about constantly negative thinking. If you only think negative occasionally, it probably doesn’t have such great effect in the moment, but on the long run I believe it’s unhealthy, because it becomes a habit, and habit’s can become hard to break, when you do get sick.
Maybe you’re are not so negative in real life, I don’t know, you just seem to be here though. Look at my above comment for my viewpoints regarding that.
You’re betting wrong my friend. One of my friends actually started on living totally healthy, but kept his negative mindset. He is not fat anymore, but he have constant headaches and I few month ago he even collapsed his lungs. Not claiming negative thinking is the source to that, though it didn’t exactly help either.
I think I just established that pessimism do impacts the body in a harmful way, unless we are to consider wikipedia as an source with not much credibility.
Oh, so now the dictionary is the source to all truth? That’s a bit narrow minded don’t you think? And who to say that it isn’t in the Danish dictionary, and the Americans have yet to catch up.
Negative emotions are anger, fear, hate, jealousy, depression, etc. Positive emotions or feelings are, joy, love, happiness, etc. Even my doctor can agree to that, why can’t you. Yeah, the word negative emotion is new, but the meaning should be obvious.
Well, I guess it’s normal for people who don’t know any better!! I know MOST people, don’t know how to control themselves or their emotions. This is what I’m trying to learn, an getting better at I might ad. And this is what my more successful friends have mastered to a ridiculously degree. But of course when you don’t how to master yourself and your emotions and have never seen anyone doing it, that kind of behaviour seems normal. Well, I think it’s normal to, but when a girl pulls the drama game on me, I know exactly what to do in order to make her happier and stop her from throwing tantrums.
I never said negative emotions caused all that, but that it was a pattern a saw, so of course I can’t point to any verified research that show this to be true(or maybe I can, but won’t look for it right know) cause this is a pattern I see in my own life, with my friends and family.
String theory was once deemed new age, now it’s a scientific theory, or is it’s still new age?
But that's your opinion. You through everything considered New age into a bag, burn it or throw it away. Only to be shocked in the future of which things were once considered new age, and could help you to grow maybe even get healthier, because you saw everything considered new age as being just unproven wishfull thinking like Tarot reading and astrology.
Thinks it's all the same without even taken a look at the evidence for some of it. I think it's narrow minded generalization. But hey, that's just me and my opinion, which according to your biased opinion is ill thought out, uneducated BS, cause you're so high and mighty right? Not arrogant, immature, close minded, or hostile at all (I'm being hostile now according to my own definition, which is talking down to someone) I don't have the oh so powerful english dictionary, so sorry if hostile is a poor choice of word, but don't know any better that reflects your behavior properly!!!
So your own faults are being placed on me because you can't understand a word? If I am misunderstanding something you are saying because you can't properly communicate in a language, then you can't 'accuse' me of misunderstanding your point. You are not making a clear and concise point due to your own failings in learning the language properly. I do not appreciate people placing their faults upon me as if it's my fault.
Just a word? they are words with very specific meanings and when you use those very specific meanings regardless of intent, they still retain those specific meanings. I have no clue what your trying to say if your claiming language barrier excuses whilst still using those specific words without offering any further clarification. For all intents and purposes, it appears you are using those words in their intended meanings.
That's one thing I've never understood about other languages. I don't get how they can have one word mean many different things. Does that not limit the amount of information one can convey to another in a clear manner?
Look it up in a dictionary.
That is one of your false accusations. You claim we're being hostile, which we are not. I have never gotten angry and aggressive towards any religious person on this forum or anywhere else for that matter, nor have I seen any other Atheist either.
WHAT A JOKE! Your going to sit there and claim I misunderstand you yet again and then ADMIT to what I was saying in my so called "misunderstanding"? Your a complete joke![
Not important??!! Your claiming that it's a big part of your ridiculous claim against Atheism. That's pretty damn important!
Really? Give an example