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Atheists and Dawkins Believe in God

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posted on Jun, 26 2010 @ 03:15 PM
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There have been many posts, but I would just like to add my own opinion. You propose that atheist deny God's existence because we do not like him. I cannot dislike something I do not think is real.

It has nothing to do with liking or disliking him. Personally, if he was real, I certainly would not like him. But this is besides the point. I do not believe any God is real because of the lack of evidence to support the belief. It is just simply that.




posted on Jun, 26 2010 @ 05:17 PM
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reply to post by sirnex
 


I simply do not have the time, the will or the negative mindset to do all the quote/answer thing again.

You're correct that religious people who demonize atheist in groups are way more hostile than an atheist ever could be. That was not my argument. I was really trying to point out your flaws without talking down to you, call your names, unintelligent, etc, where you obvious don't care about talking down to me. When you don't respect other people in a discussion, THAT'S immature, and that is what i see most atheist do HERE.

Of course i can't prevent if you get the feeling that i'm talking down to you, but at least i'm trying not to when making my point, where you obvious use it as some kind of a discussion tool. That i see as extremly immature, and you keep persisting at it.

I was just pointing out that atheist on discussion forums tend to act immature this way, NOT ALL, as i said a million times, but i see more atheist do this than i see believers do this. Of course both sides have their bad apples.

Don't you think i know how ignorant and dangerous religious people can be. I live in the country which got flag burned because of some stupid Muhammed picture. In Denmark, the religious population is the minority. I think it's only about 20-30 % that belong to a religion.

And i don't know every gang member. Although in Denmark i know most, we are not a highly populated country you know. Again, WE HAVE talked about God, i've talked about it with almost everybody i know, when they state they don't believe in him and how ridiculous it is to believe in him, i tend to think that they don't believe in him!! I was a gang member. Not anymore though. I know the mentallity, if you're sure you don't get caught by the police and don't believe in punishment from above(Which i don't either btw) and you're power hungry and want to get popular in you group and show you're are tuff to the girls, you screw other people, rob them, even kill them if you think you can get away with it, because killing means nothing if there is no punishment in the now and after.

Religions however justify their killings with their faith. that is just as dangerous. I have never defended religious people, only their belief, not what they choose to do with this belief and what they think can be justified with it. I see it as mostly an excuse because of hate, racism, power hunger, etc. I don't believe that any sane person would kill because of their religion, they use it as an excuse for other things!!

Also, i never said i didn't believe in God, just that i liked to point out the flaws in believing in God to a person who are blind in their faith.

You talk down to me, like you don't know any other way to convey yourself to a person with opposite opinion. That i would state as immature behavior. I know this is me talking down to you, but i really don't know any other way to convey this to you without pointing out the immature aproach you're using. It's not YOU, it's your aproach.

Uhhh, a contradiction for you to point out. You better do so, or else you don't prove how high your intelligence really is!! Sorry, couldn't help myself. It's funny how you keep pointing out where i have pointed out my own flaws. What is the point in doing that? I Know what my flaws is did you just do that to make your argument seem stronger?

Also it seem as if you take every thing i say, out of context with the whole quote/answer thing, just so your argument outcome looks better or something. The things you point out, i seem to have explained in another section of my post, which you either overlooked or choose not to reconize in order to win

Anyway this is off topic, so sorry to the OP. You can continue in proving my point about how hostile atheist are and take everything i say out of context, i will respond no further.

Cheers my good friend

[edit on 26-6-2010 by JokerzReality]



posted on Jun, 26 2010 @ 05:34 PM
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reply to post by ChickenPie
 




That's exactly what I'm doing, because it's illogical that something as vast, complex, and orderly as the universe would come into existence arbitrarily.


I guess I agree with you that it is illogical, the difference is that you postulate God as the cause of the Universe while I will wait for the scientific evidence to point to an answer as for why the Big Bang happened and where matter and energy come from. Yours is a quick and easy answer - God did it.



I'm more interested in why you think it's more reasonable to conclude that singularity and everything with it just happened arbitrarily, without any guidance. I find that highly illogical.


One does not need intelligent guidance to create order, just look at how easily order is found within nature without a guiding intelligence. Look at the diversity of life that natural selection has gradually crafted without the use of intelligence. One might see design in these if one chooses but I think there is a beauty in accepting the evidence that the natural governs the natural and the supernatural seems absent entirely outside of fantasy.

I don't think it happened arbitrarily, there was definitely something that caused the Big Bang but we don't know what that is.



I wouldn't expect God to leave any strong evidence for His existence, because I think He wants us to use our brains.


Then you believe in a better God than most. The fundamentalist Christians out there all want us to know using our brains leads straight to hell - sounds like your version of God is more a Deistic one.



It doesn't bother me like it does you that I don't have a snapshot of God surfing at His favorite beach.


I'd settle for indirect evidence, for instance if the power of prayer came through in a controlled scientific experiment or if we could somehow measure his effect on the natural world. The fact that we cannot detect him means he is supernatural, a ghost, not part of the physical reality and can he therefore even be considered real? I have a hard time seeing any reason to believe in him or even to postulate the existence of a higher power at all.



How about this... what if God appeared before you this very second? Would you even trust in yourself enough to believe that you just saw God? No? Isn't that funny? But here you are whining about evidence...


I would believe him eventually I assure you, but that would still be subjective experience unless it came with data that could be verified outside of my own subjective perception. You see its not about subjective evidence, though certainly I would believe after that I couldn't expect others to take my subjective experience as proof and yes I would have a period of doubt in my own subjective experience.



Maybe one day you'll put away your childish definitions and ideas of God, and then you'll understand.


Childish? My definitions are based on those theists have postulated for thousands of years.

I say your definition isn't any more advanced than mine, it is far more vague. Yours sounds like an agnostic deist God, Agnosticism says "We cannot know if there is a God" or "if there is one we cannot hope to perceive such a concept". Its all too vague for me and is hardly a reason to start believing.

You say stop looking for evidence? But believe in God anyway? You want people to Believe in God, without evidence and then call my idea of God childish. You know most children believe in Santa, fairies and monsters too, they do so on faith without any evidence - I'd call that childish. Wanting evidence in order to believe in something - that's not childish.



posted on Jun, 26 2010 @ 06:17 PM
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reply to post by JokerzReality
 


[QUOTE]I simply do not have the time, the will or the negative mindset to do all the quote/answer thing again. [/QUOTE]

In other words you reserve the right to not defend your argument. I accept your right to not defend your argument as that is your right, but make note that refusal to defend your argument may be viewed by myself or others as admittance to my counter-argument or anyone else counter-argument as being valid in point to any argument you refuse to defend.


You're correct that religious people who demonize atheist in groups are way more hostile than an atheist ever could be. That was not my argument. I was really trying to point out your flaws without talking down to you, call your names, unintelligent, etc, where you obvious don't care about talking down to me. When you don't respect other people in a discussion, THAT'S immature, and that is what i see most atheist do HERE.


Point out my flaws without having any initial communication in which to determine said flaws? Your full of yourself, that you are. You don't point out a personal flaw upon one person without any previous dealing in which to determine said flaws. That's just common sense. Your doing nothing more than generalizing all Atheists as being alike, which is wholly inaccurate.

Case in point, you made an erroneous uneducated assumption and then demanded no retribution be taken upon your person where retribution is well deserved for your prejudicial talking down to all Atheists and your generalization that all Atheists behave in similar conduct of character.


Of course i can't prevent if you get the feeling that i'm talking down to you, but at least i'm trying not to when making my point, where you obvious use it as some kind of a discussion tool. That i see as extremly immature, and you keep persisting at it.


Informing you of your erroneous argumentation is not inherently talking down to you. If you feel offense from me rightfully pointing out major contradictions in your argument, then perhaps you should try a more intelligible approach to argumentation, is that too much to ask? Or do I really have to painstakingly figure out exactly what message your trying to convey amongst the numerous contradiction, hypocrisies and bigoted statements?


I was just pointing out that atheist on discussion forums tend to act immature this way, NOT ALL, as i said a million times, but i see more atheist do this than i see believers do this. Of course both sides have their bad apples.


Why constantly mention Atheists first? Atheist this Atheist that, *but* of course religious people do it too. What kind of a cockamamie statement is that? Your pointing out that both sides do it be placing emphasize on one side alone? What a piss poor argument. You have a problem with Atheists whilst acknowledging that religious people behave similarly, but your emphasize on Atheists shows which side you have the real problem with.

Please make note, this thread was intended as a poke towards Atheists. Again, and I can not stress this enough, we do indeed have the right to defense. By what authority do you have to hypocritically bitch that we should not exercise that right to defense against an erroneous statement made?


Don't you think i know how ignorant and dangerous religious people can be. I live in the country which got flag burned because of some stupid Muhammed picture.


I was afraid you may not know with your blatant emphasize of Atheist this and Atheist that with the *minor* inclusion of acknowledgment of religion.


And i don't know every gang member.


Great, so you do not know that every gang member is Atheist.


Although in Denmark i know most, we are not a highly populated country you know. Again, WE HAVE talked about God, i've talked about it with almost everybody i know, when they state they don't believe in him and how ridiculous it is to believe in him, i tend to think that they don't believe in him!! I was a gang member. Not anymore though. I know the mentallity, if you're sure you don't get caught by the police and don't believe in punishment from above(Which i don't either btw) and you're power hungry and want to get popular in you group and show you're are tuff to the girls, you screw other people, rob them, even kill them if you think you can get away with it, because killing means nothing if there is no punishment in the now and after.


What utter complete BS. Morality does not need to be dispensed by some imaginary entity nor by a plethora of imaginary entities. Do unto others as you would want done unto you. I don't need to submit to higher authority to be moral and those who can't be moral without someone dispensing morality are not moral. Morality with reward is not morality, it is an act of selfishness.


Religions however justify their killings with their faith. that is just as dangerous. I have never defended religious people, only their belief, not what they choose to do with this belief and what they think can be justified with it. I see it as mostly an excuse because of hate, racism, power hunger, etc. I don't believe that any sane person would kill because of their religion, they use it as an excuse for other things!!


Your still handing me nothing but BS. Don't tell me you defend their beliefs because they're actions don't "jive" with your beliefs when they're beliefs in some cases may call for those actions you disagree with on a personal basis. There is no such thing has half defense, you either outright defend their beliefs or you don't defend them at all.


Also, i never said i didn't believe in God, just that i liked to point out the flaws in believing in God to a person who are blind in their faith.


Actually, you did say you don't believe in God and in the same post told us that you do.


You talk down to me, like you don't know any other way to convey yourself to a person with opposite opinion. That i would state as immature behavior. I know this is me talking down to you, but i really don't know any other way to convey this to you without pointing out the immature aproach you're using. It's not YOU, it's your aproach.


So are you admitting to being a bigoted hypocrite?


Uhhh, a contradiction for you to point out. You better do so, or else you don't prove how high your intelligence really is!! Sorry, couldn't help myself. It's funny how you keep pointing out where i have pointed out my own flaws. What is the point in doing that? I Know what my flaws is, did you just do that to make your argument seem stronger?


You pointed out that you knew of one flaw in which I pointed out many. What is funny is that you only managed to see one flaw. That is the true sign of intelligence. YAY DENMARK!


Also it seem as if you take every thing i say, out of context with the whole quote/answer thing, just so your argument outcome looks better or something. The things you respond to, i seem to have explained in another section of my post.


If you explained it in another section, then I wouldn't need to make a point against it. If you feel that this is what is occurring, then please man up and explain exactly where you feel an error in judgment is being made rather than cowardly making an ill thought claim of character.


Anyway. This is off topic, so sorry to the OP. You can continue in proving my point about how hostile atheist are and take everything i say out of context, i will not respond further.


You complain of immaturity and hostility whilst conducting the same in argument and then demand no retribution be taken whilst idly sitting by claiming that a point is being proven? You can't simply complain whilst doing what your complaining about, it make's you a hypocrite. Pointing out your blatant hypocrisy is not immature. You arguing by hypocrisy IS immature as all it's showing is argument for the sake of arguing.



posted on Jun, 26 2010 @ 07:29 PM
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Originally posted by codeblast

Originally posted by Blaine91555
If I were to say to you such an experience is possible, how could you know if it is or not? Would not in the back your mind you have to honestly say to yourself, it is possible?


Now we seem to have a difference on the meaning of "evidence" and "proof" : ) I like to think of those words in the scientific sense.

So, no - if you told me you had some experience that "proved" to you god's existence or anything similarly unlikely, I'd say "that's anecdotal evidence -


Therein lies the problem. I could have experienced absolute proof myself, but if you were not part of the experience, I could never convince you, even though I would be being completely honest.

That is to me why it is such a personal thing and why people should not attack others who do believe.

A wonderful conversation and sorry I had to go yesterday while we were still talking. Thanks.



posted on Jun, 26 2010 @ 07:42 PM
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reply to post by sirnex
 


I won't bother with the usual statement answer format here. The discussion reached its only possible conclusion.

I should mention I was speaking in generalities. I was not accusing you of hate. That does not change the fact, there is in fact a faction of Atheists who do attack People of Faith in a hateful manner and no doubt some do hate.

As evidence, people who pretend a Nativity display somehow harms them. Those who sued and made it so I can't even keep a Bible in my own desk drawer to read on my own time. Those who burn down churches. Those who pretend a display of the Ten Commandments harms them personally. That is in fact hate directed at people who are doing nothing to them.

Of course one fact escaped here, even if all you say is true, if all of history upholds your personal beliefs, your knowledge of the Universe is infinitesimally small and almost entirely incomplete; as is every other human beings. You simply can not possibly know if there is a Creator. You have only seen or experienced a portion of this Universe comparable to a quark.



posted on Jun, 26 2010 @ 07:48 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid

She's got a point. Those that don't believe in god are just as much in the "faith" field as anyone else. Sorry guys. I'll see you on the other side and we can talk then. If there is another side.


Actually that's incorrect.

I don't believe you need a faith to disbelieve in angels, gods, pixies.

But you NEED faith to believe in god, angels, pixies.



posted on Jun, 26 2010 @ 07:51 PM
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reply to post by sirnex
 


You seem like a very angry and bitter little man. Or woman for that matter. You just like to argu, don't you? Again with all you fancy words trying to talk around the point that you are in fact hostile towards me. Maybe i am a hypocrite, never said i wasn't. I made my first post just ramble a little, but also to point out what most atheist tends to do in THIS thread and on most internet forums i come across.

You have the right to defend yourself aswell as i do. But by defending yourself, you create negativity in yourself and others. Negative emotions are not really good for our body, unless it's the fight or flight respons and you are running from a tiger. I actually talk down to anybody that seems to promote this behavior, it's just that atheist tend to do this more on internet forums. That's why you see me mention atheists all the time. I don't agree in religious fear mongering either and have also talked against that on this forum.

My original post was for all atheists, so maybe they could pick up on their own behavior and act differently and more mature when discussing with a believer. I really don't have a problem with atheists, just the way they sometimes act arrogantly and i hoped for people to start listen instead of instantly putting up their defence shield. It's like when you try to help a friend of mine, but he instantly think he needs to defend himself, because he has no flaws. It just happened that you were the one responding to my post by talking down to me, and then i got caught up in the web.

Actually your response proved my point best. It's also funny, i pointed out to a religious dude onj another thread that he was acting a little arrogant in his belief and maybe he should consider the other side of the argument and that his hostility towards atheist didn't help anybody. Right away i was deemed an atheist fundamentalist(if can even be that)

You are actually generalizing me(wrongly if i might ad) much more, than i generalize atheist. My only statement about atheists was that they seemed to be more hostile, HERE, on this entire forum or on the internet in general, than believers seem to be. Of course you have the religious fundamentalist, but they are not really what i talk about when i talk about believers(Hey come to think of it, maybe that's the cause of this whole misunderstanding)

Oh and btw. I think i studied hundreds of NDE account's. I have yet to hear an atheist who remained one after the experience. Well, i have only read some of the best documented cases. I haven't read every single one, so i'm not denying what you're saying, but would you point me towards an example, searched on google and couldn't find one.

Either i defend their believes or i don't? Hmm, i defend their belief in God and spirituallity nothing else. Want to know what my belief is look here:

Link

I agree with what he says. But i don't believe because he says this but because my research resulted with the same conclusion.

I still think you're acting immature and i fail to see how you could have a happy life and live it to the fullist when you have this level of hostility towards something or someone. I was trying to get atheists to understand that this sort of hostility won't do any good and that they shouldn't use or promote it. But hey, this is my opinion, my belief, i've seen alot of people live a happier life when they let go of this hostile desire. I would never get through to religious fundamentalist, but i thought i maybe could get through to some atheist.

Excited to see how you can turn this into yet another negative thing!!!

[edit on 26-6-2010 by JokerzReality]

[edit on 26-6-2010 by JokerzReality]



posted on Jun, 26 2010 @ 09:01 PM
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In other words you reserve the right to not defend your argument. I accept your right to not defend your argument as that is your right, but make note that refusal to defend your argument may be viewed by myself or others as admittance to my counter-argument or anyone else counter-argument as being valid in point to any argument you refuse to defend.


And btw, i don't care what other people think. Their personal and biased thoughts are their problem, not mine. I don't have the maturity level of a 3 year old where i need other people to validate my point or myself. That's maybe why i'm so popular with my friends and with girls
They wan't me you know
because i just don't care what you or anybody else think. Besides the moderaters here, i don't wan't to get banned.

Just because you can't see and understand my reason for posting what i am doesn't mean that i don't have any other than "I'm full of myself" or "i argu for the skae of argument". It's not my fault your blind to my agenda. You strike me as a person who likes to listen to himself, but i wouldn't know of course!!

I wan't to help people. I love to help people. I tried to help here, also i offered some of my own personal opinions. But you attacked them in a way i see as extremly immature. I even pointed out that it was my ideas and it was me who couldn't see the logic behind most atheists argument. But you had to attack it like it was an personal attack on you, even after i tried to explain that i tried to see it from another point of view.

One thing i hate is getting talked down to for no reason, normally i ignore ignorant people like that, but for some reason i couldn't this time. That's why i started to make what seem like personal attacks on you. You assume that i argu for the sake of argument cause you probably do. I think you reflect your personallity onto me, but you can't read me my friend, i'm not like you.

I know i promised to not keep arguing, but just have to say this. I NEVER said i didn't believe in God, point to me where i did. It's looks like you misunderstood my entire original post, and saw what you wanted to see. Wishfull thinking anybody!!! And look at this statement "I'm not saying that atheism is wrong, just that the statement that religion kills people and atheism don't is a load of sh.." Oh what do i mean? Certainly not that you can't have morallity with atheism, neither did i in any of the other statements. I said that this was the mentallity in the gang world. Are you really so blind as to not accepting that people get killed because the killers don't believe in God? Of course atheist have morallity i never once said that.

It's like your strategy here is taking everything i say out of context and make it sound like something i didn't mean or you're just so unconsciously biased that you take out what you wan't in order to form an opinion that makes sense to YOU, cause you're narrow minded view of the world won't allow you any other possibilities.

I hope the best for you now. This argument has run it's curse. My limited english capabilities keeps me from making any good and strong argument, so i won't fuel this battle with even more negativity. I would want to help you, but you probably think you're better than me, that's probably why you see my original post as an attack on atheist, which it never was. I don't know though, this is my theory. I first attacked you when you talked down to me, but i'm getting tired of all of this negativity.

What about calling a truce?

Do you feel a strong desire to make an counter-argument, then feel free to do so. But i'm done, you created enough negative emotions in me.

My advise is not to create negative emotions in anybody. I don't like to do so, cause i don't have the authority over anybody, no matter what they said. Of course if you're talking down to me, i will react, but when not adressing me directly it's immature to claim that authority, in MY opinion

[edit on 26-6-2010 by JokerzReality]



posted on Jun, 26 2010 @ 10:25 PM
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reply to post by Blaine91555
 



I should mention I was speaking in generalities. I was not accusing you of hate. That does not change the fact, there is in fact a faction of Atheists who do attack People of Faith in a hateful manner and no doubt some do hate.


Whilst that may be true, the same in retrospect is also true of those of faith. You can't single out one group over another, even if you don't agree with the point of view of the group. Especially when some of both conduct their behaviors the same way.



As evidence, people who pretend a Nativity display somehow harms them. Those who sued and made it so I can't even keep a Bible in my own desk drawer to read on my own time. Those who burn down churches. Those who pretend a display of the Ten Commandments harms them personally. That is in fact hate directed at people who are doing nothing to them.


To be completely honest, I do not have a problem with people displaying their religious icons and graven images on their own property. What I do have a problem with is them demanding, whining and bitching that they have a right to display those same images and icons on public property and in government centers.

The American government is secular by nature and can not under any circumstance establish religion of any form in any fashion. Things like "In God We Trust" is unconstitutional and *should* be removed.


Of course one fact escaped here, even if all you say is true, if all of history upholds your personal beliefs, your knowledge of the Universe is infinitesimally small and almost entirely incomplete; as is every other human beings. You simply can not possibly know if there is a Creator. You have only seen or experienced a portion of this Universe comparable to a quark.


Whilst ALL OF OUR knowledge in a collective meaning is infinitesimal, this still does not detract from the fact that a man made mythology is no more accurate in truth than claiming origins from the anal drippings of a cosmic unicorn. There very well may be a creator, but that creator is certainly not any one of the depicted man made mythologies as they are man made mythologies. Certainly such a creator would not be some humanized entity with humanized emotions that cares only for humans as the "chosen ones". This is nothing more than arrogant egocentric narcissism.



posted on Jun, 27 2010 @ 02:15 AM
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reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 





Well, the jealousy also points to a polytheistic spirit realm. There are other gods listed by name, angels and demons referred to by name, etc. ,and a requirement that one reject all the others and submit to YHWH. You must be atheistic in order to operate as a devoted christian.


I thought you we're an Atheist ! Now you're telling me there are Gods.
Could you please make up my mind.



posted on Jun, 27 2010 @ 08:41 AM
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reply to post by JokerzReality
 



And btw, i don't care what other people think.


Really? Your whiny demeanor suggests otherwise.


Their personal and biased thoughts are their problem, not mine. I don't have the maturity level of a 3 year old where i need other people to validate my point or myself.


When you make en erroneous generalized biased bigoted remark towards someone, it is now not only your problem, but theirs as well. Please don't indirectly attempt to insult me either with the whole three year old maturity level garbage. You want to pretend your initial contradictory bigoted post is mature?


That's maybe why i'm so popular with my friends and with girls They wan't me you know because i just don't care what you or anybody else think. Besides the moderaters here, i don't wan't to get banned.


What in the hell does that have to do with anything? That's like me informing you of my personal life as if it had any bearing. I'm a married man with three kids, friends who matter and have had my fair share of threesomes. Not sure how comparing our personal lives amounts to anything though. Is that really what they teach as "intelligent" in Denmark?


Just because you can't see and understand my reason for posting what i am doesn't mean that i don't have any other than "I'm full of myself" or "i argu for the skae of argument". It's not my fault your blind to my agenda. You strike me as a person who likes to listen to himself, but i wouldn't know of course!!


What agenda is that? You came into the thread arguing an ill thought out uneducated generalization of all Atheist are of one way and then proceeded to tell me that in essence you are simply cherry picking this supposed problem you perceive by laying claim that when talking about religious persons, your not talking about the 'fundamentalists' whilst acknowledging that they are militant in belief.


I wan't to help people. I love to help people. I tried to help here, also i offered some of my own personal opinions. But you attacked them in a way i see as extremly immature. I even pointed out that it was my ideas and it was me who couldn't see the logic behind most atheists argument. But you had to attack it like it was an personal attack on you, even after i tried to explain that i tried to see it from another point of view.


Help people by generalizing and insulting them? Hey, genius, I'm an Atheist and in no way do I fit your generalizations and opinions of all Atheists. You want to come into this thread and make an uneducated insulting crap spout of cherry picked nonsense, then you best damn well be prepared to hear someone's defense to such grossly inaccurate accusations.


One thing i hate is getting talked down to for no reason, normally i ignore ignorant people like that, but for some reason i couldn't this time. That's why i started to make what seem like personal attacks on you. You assume that i argu for the sake of argument cause you probably do. I think you reflect your personallity onto me, but you can't read me my friend, i'm not like you.


Now your calling me ignorant?! You came into this thread with such an uneducated generalization and I am ignorant?! No reason to talk down to you? Listen to yourself cupcake. Your insulting me, arguing with hypocrisies and making uneducated claims in regards to me beliefs. You wouldn't view those reasons as being well and good to get on your ass for such a breach in character?


I know i promised to not keep arguing, but just have to say this. I NEVER said i didn't believe in God, point to me where i did.



I have faith than none of the mythological Gods exist


God falls under this category, hence you do not believe in God as you have faith that none of the mythological gods exist. The Judaic-Christian biblical mythology is nothing more than a retelling of past mythologies with the addition of new characters and adventures.


Certainly not that you can't have morallity with atheism, neither did i in any of the other statements. I said that this was the mentallity in the gang world. Are you really so blind as to not accepting that people get killed because the killers don't believe in God? Of course atheist have morallity i never once said that.


There you go again generalizing and making uneducated claims!

People kill because they don't believe in god. That roughly translates to me as, people who don't believe in god are not morally obligated to view the life of another as sacred and thus take that life away.

People do not kill because they don't believe in God. What a pompous ignorant claim to make. You really think non-believers go around killing other whilst thinking "Hey, I can get away with this because there is no god!"


It's like your strategy here is taking everything i say out of context and make it sound like something i didn't mean or you're just so unconsciously biased that you take out what you wan't in order to form an opinion that makes sense to YOU, cause you're narrow minded view of the world won't allow you any other possibilities.


Now your flinging even more insults and you say I'm the hostile one? Man, your just something else aren't you?


I hope the best for you now. This argument has run it's curse. My limited english capabilities keeps me from making any good and strong argument, so i won't fuel this battle with even more negativity. I would want to help you, but you probably think you're better than me, that's probably why you see my original post as an attack on atheist, which it never was. I don't know though, this is my theory. I first attacked you when you talked down to me, but i'm getting tired of all of this negativity.


Now your going to continue to insult me?!?! Sorry to say this, but your a joke. A completely uneducated ignorant joke. You think your helping me by insulting me? You think I have a problem because I defend my belief against your uneducated generalizations against it?


What about calling a truce?


How about you apologize for being an ignorant bigoted uneducated hypocrite first? Now THAT is my first show of hostility.


Do you feel a strong desire to make an counter-argument, then feel free to do so. But i'm done, you created enough negative emotions in me.


Oh please, get off that negative emotion garbage, there is no such thing as a negative emotion. Learn something about biology will ya?


My advise is not to create negative emotions in anybody. I don't like to do so, cause i don't have the authority over anybody, no matter what they said. Of course if you're talking down to me, i will react, but when not adressing me directly it's immature to claim that authority, in MY opinion


Oh please, more of this bigoted hypocrisy? I shouldn't cause these mythical negative emotions, but you are well within your rights and "authority" to say everything you can to annoy and piss me off by attacking me personally and my beliefs in an uneducated ignorant generalization?



posted on Jun, 27 2010 @ 08:41 AM
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Originally posted by randyvs
I thought you we're an Atheist ! Now you're telling me there are Gods.
Could you please make up my mind.




I'm just recalling what the bible says. I'm making no claims as to whether there are or aren't a god or many gods. But the bible believer must acknowledge the existence of deities other than YHWH and reject them. It suggests a polytheistic spirit realm and mandates a degree of atheism. OMG, you're part atheist!



posted on Jun, 27 2010 @ 08:44 AM
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reply to post by JokerzReality
 



You seem like a very angry and bitter little man.


No, not angry at all nor bitter. I'm very annoyed with you based on how your conducting your character in this thread.


You just like to argu, don't you?


Define argue and define debate.

You've made various ill thought out uneducated remarks towards Atheists in general, and I am defending and debating against those ill thought out uneducated remarks.


Again with all you fancy words trying to talk around the point that you are in fact hostile towards me.


Fancy words? WTF? Please... Please by all means explain to me what a "fancy word" is.

Hostile? Perhaps they don't have dictionaries or teach proper definitions in Denmark, I don't know, I'm not from there so your going to have to explain your usage of the word a bit for me. Hostile is me getting in your face screaming. Hostile is me smacking you around without due course. It is not hostile to point out a breach of character made by your own self in which you act on behalf of your own self as a bigoted hypocrite.

If you take offense to being ousted as conducting your character as a bigoted hypocrite, then by all means stop being a bigoted hypocrite and that distinction will not be further made thus forth.


Maybe i am a hypocrite, never said i wasn't.


Knowing is half the battle, but please do not attempt to call someone hostile when they point that out and you admit to knowing you are. Common sense is not your enemy.


I made my first post just ramble a little, but also to point out what most atheist tends to do in THIS thread and on most internet forums i come across.


I believe this is now the fourth time I've made mention of this. This thread was started by some uneducated religious person making an erroneous claim against Atheists in general. Atheists in general have every right to defend against such a blatant erroneous claim.


You have the right to defend yourself aswell as i do. But by defending yourself, you create negativity in yourself and others. Negative emotions are not really good for our body, unless it's the fight or flight respons and you are running from a tiger.


Yet you attempt to demonize the Atheists in this thread? Please, explain how defending oneself creates this mythical 'negative emotion'. What the hell is a negative emotion?


I actually talk down to anybody that seems to promote this behavior, it's just that atheist tend to do this more on internet forums. That's why you see me mention atheists all the time. I don't agree in religious fear mongering either and have also talked against that on this forum.


What a crock of inaccurate garbage. The correct answer is: YOU see this based on the forums YOU visit and the threads YOU read. This observation of a minority does not speak for the majority, so please do not sit there and try to sensationalize the situation.


My original post was for all atheists, so maybe they could pick up on their own behavior and act differently and more mature when discussing with a believer. I really don't have a problem with atheists, just the way they sometimes act arrogantly and i hoped for people to start listen instead of instantly putting up their defence shield. It's like when you try to help a friend of mine, but he instantly think he needs to defend himself, because he has no flaws. It just happened that you were the one responding to my post by talking down to me, and then i got caught up in the web.


Helping? How is it helping by conducting yourself in the very same manner that your bitching about?


Actually your response proved my point best. It's also funny, i pointed out to a religious dude onj another thread that he was acting a little arrogant in his belief and maybe he should consider the other side of the argument and that his hostility towards atheist didn't help anybody. Right away i was deemed an atheist fundamentalist(if can even be that)


Proved what point? That you can't properly use the word hostile when arguing by the same mannerism that you bitch about of others claiming they have no authority to do so whilst bolstering your own authority to do so in such a hypocritical fashion? Is that the point your talking about?

Come one... You call me hostile for pointing out where your going wrong here as if you loath any level of common sense.


You are actually generalizing me(wrongly if i might ad) much more, than i generalize atheist. My only statement about atheists was that they seemed to be more hostile, HERE, on this entire forum or on the internet in general, than believers seem to be. Of course you have the religious fundamentalist, but they are not really what i talk about when i talk about believers(Hey come to think of it, maybe that's the cause of this whole misunderstanding)


More utter garbage. You can't simply cherry pick militant Atheists as the problem and dismiss militant fundamentalists and claim to be talking about only the "nice believers". Your not seeing any real actual problem, your just singling out one group. What piss poor tact you have.


Oh and btw. I think i studied hundreds of NDE account's. I have yet to hear an atheist who remained one after the experience. Well, i have only read some of the best documented cases. I haven't read every single one, so i'm not denying what you're saying, but would you point me towards an example, searched on google and couldn't find one.


Really? Define study and read, the two words have very distinct meanings.




Either i defend their believes or i don't? Hmm, i defend their belief in God and spirituallity nothing else. Want to know what my belief is look here:


So you half ass defend their beliefs and refuse to defend such beliefs of their religions that may cause them to cause due harm upon another person. There is no such thing as half ass defense. Again, you either defend their beliefs in full or you don't defend them at all.


I agree with what he says. But i don't believe because he says this but because my research resulted with the same conclusion.


Research? Interesting, can you point me to any peer reviewed papers you've published that can verify the conclusions?


I still think you're acting immature and i fail to see how you could have a happy life and live it to the fullist when you have this level of hostility towards something or someone.


You come into the thread, make an erroneous uneducated claim about Atheists in general as if all Atheists behave similarly and then proceed to call an Atheist defending himself against your bigoted comments as being immature. You need some serious life and common sense lessons pal.


I was trying to get atheists to understand that this sort of hostility won't do any good and that they shouldn't use or promote it. But hey, this is my opinion, my belief, i've seen alot of people live a happier life when they let go of this hostile desire. I would never get through to religious fundamentalist, but i thought i maybe could get through to some atheist.


Please point out explicitly where this perceived hostility is. Your improper usage of the word hostile does not magically make someone be hostile.


Excited to see how you can turn this into yet another negative thing!!!


Negative thing? What the hell is a negative thing? Is that the same thing as that made up BS, negative emotion?



posted on Jun, 27 2010 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by JokerzReality
 


What in the hell does that have to do with anything? That's like me informing you of my personal life as if it had any bearing. I'm a married man with three kids, friends who matter and have had my fair share of threesomes. Not sure how comparing our personal lives amounts to anything though. Is that really what they teach as "intelligent" in Denmark?


OMG!!! I was joking, hence the smileys!! My whole point about all this, that people take this all to serious, including you i might ad. And the 3 year old remark wasn't towards you, but as an example of why caring about what other people think of is a immature trade. Sometimes there are good reasons to care, but this wasn't one, and caring without reason is are sign that one haven't evolved much since birth. Intelligence is NOT a sign of maturity.

I'm an expert in Danish language, and if you ever tried to study another language you would know that it gets easy to be misunderstood. Sometimes you use the wrong words, because it sometimes translates to word in your language, but have another meaning. The immature and what i see as hostile behavior, is the name calling, your indirect suggestions that your better than me and your belief is better and more valid than mine, your generalize my belief and when one need to defend oneself instead of just ignoring is also immature. I'm not saying you don't have the right to defend yourself, i'm saying that by giving easy in to the desire and even defending the desire is immature. Also i think people who arrogantly think they are right in any thing they says without even listening to other side but instead spending time to give the best counter-argument, is also extremly immature. AGAIN FOR THE LAST TIME. THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE.

The negative emotion is not some made up BS. If one keep hanging oneself in defending oneself and one's belief while talking down to other people, one are forgetting to see it from their point of view and one actually understand other people much less than one probably think one do. And the negative emotion is something i've seen on the danish science channel and also on Discovery channel. i learned about it in school and alot of succesfull people, like Will Smith, Anthony Robbins, Steven Spielberg, Donald Trump, Neil Natura promote thinking positive to get what you wan't in life. Also i've seen many people get well after serious illness while negative people tend to die more fast, like the placebo effect. Being negative destroy your body, and by focussing on unconstructive things, like why you need to defend yourself instead of understanding other people point of view or just letting it go if you just can't accept other people opinions, you promote negativity in your body.

I'm probably not making the best case, cause as i said. i lack knowledge of the english vocabulary, so i'm having great difficulties.

The rest of your arguments seems like indirect insults, and as i said i won't accept what i see as immature and hostile behavior, i'm sorry, maybe hostile is the wrong word, but i wont respond to what seems like a indirect cheap shot on me. Being annoyed is also a negative emotion, and your negative mindset shines through your comments, i would have to sink to your level if i should respond to those kind of comments, sorry but that how i feels.

Have a good one!!!

[edit on 27-6-2010 by JokerzReality]

[edit on 27-6-2010 by JokerzReality]



posted on Jun, 27 2010 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by JokerzReality
 



OMG!!! I was joking, hence the smileys!! My whole point about all this, that people take this all to serious, including you i might ad. And the 3 year old remark wasn't towards you, but as an example of why caring about what other people think of is a immature trade. Sometimes there are good reasons to care, but this wasn't one, and caring without reason is are sign that one haven't evolved much since birth. Intelligence is NOT a sign of maturity.


You insult me and expect me to not have some choice words to say? Oh I get it, it's OK for you, but if I retaliate it's me being immature.


I'm an expert in Danish language, and if you ever tried to study another language you would know that it gets easy to be misunderstood. Sometimes you use the wrong words, because it sometimes translates to word in your language, but have another meaning.


Now your trying to save face by claiming that the words 'immature' and 'hostile' are not being "translated" properly to convey some other meaning you *really intended*?


The immature and what i see as hostile behavior, is the name calling


Ousting you as a bigoted hypocrite is not an insult. Please open up a dictionary and learn what an insult is. There is a difference between an insult and feeling insulted e.g. take offense to.

You admitted to being a hypocrite, so this nonsensical argument that I am insulting you by pointing out a breach of character in which you ADMIT to being a hypocrite is *not an insult*. We have both agreed on said breach of character and that such a breach has indeed taken place. Again, find a damn dictionary.


your indirect suggestions that your better than me


Excuse me? Where in the hell have I "indirectly" suggested anything of the sort? Now your going to lie and place blame without just cause or evidence?


and your belief is better and more valid than mine


What the hell? I've made no mention of the sort! Your so full of yourself and now you've gone so low as to literally make up all this nonsensical garbage.


your generalize my belief and when one need to defend oneself instead of just ignoring is also immature.


I have not attacked you belief (of which I am still wholly unsure as to what exactly it is) one bit. Are you going to just keep lying here making false accusations about me and then proceed to continue calling me immature for defending against your ridiculous false accusation?


I'm not saying you don't have the right to defend yourself, i'm saying that by giving easy in to the desire and even defending the desire is immature.


Oh, so I have the right to defense, you just don't want me to defend myself because it makes you have mythical negative emotions?

So, it's OK for you to insult me, make false accusations and demonize my beliefs with some ill thought out uneducated generalizations, but you don't want me to have any retribution?


Also i think people who arrogantly think they are right in any thing they says without even listening to other side but instead spending time to give the best counter-argument, is also extremly immature. AGAIN FOR THE LAST TIME. THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE.


Now I am arrogant? Please, enlighten me in where I've thought and/or have said either indirectly or directly that I think I am right about anything. I sure as hell have been listening to your argument. You've made it quiet clear that you believe you have the authority to judge, insult, and demand limits of speech upon others and whereas they have no authority to retribution should they conduct themselves in the same manner in which you hypocritically conduct yourself.


The negative emotion is not some made up BS.


Really? Find it in a dictionary.


If one keep hanging oneself in defending oneself and one's belief while talking down to other people, one are forgetting to see it from their point of view and one actually understand other people much less than one probably think one do.


You mean like what your hypocritically doing right now?


And the negative emotion is something i've seen on the danish science channel and also on Discovery channel. i learned about it in school and alot of succesfull people, like Will Smith, Anthony Robbins, Steven Spielberg, Donald Trump, Neil Natura promote thinking positive to get what you wan't in life.


WTF? Now your linking negative/positive emotion (possibly brought about with the new age movement, IDK) as being the same as positive/negative thinking? Man ... I'm not following you on this crap.


Also i've seen many people get well after serious illness while negative people tend to die more fast, like the placebo effect. Being negative destroy your body, and by focussing on unconstructive things, like why you need to defend yourself instead of understanding other people point of view or just letting it go if you just can't accept other people opinions, you promote negativity in your body.


What in the hell is this "being negative" garbage? Are you trying to tell me that by my defending myself that I am being in some mythical state of mind called "negativity" and that now I'm going to omgosh die sooner than a "positive" person?


I'm probably not making the best case, cause as i said. i lack knowledge of the english vocabulary, so i'm having great difficulties.


Your vocabulary is fine, it's your uneducated false accusations I have the problem with.


The rest of your arguments seems like indirect insults, and as i said i won't accept what i see as immature and hostile behavior


Yes, calling you something you admit to is an indirect insult.



i'm sorry, maybe hostile is the wrong word, but i wont respond to what seems like a indirect cheap shot on me.


Ah, OK ... It's alright for YOU to make cheap shots, but not anyone else!


Being annoyed is also a negative emotion, and your negative mindset shines through your comments, i would have to sink to your level if i should respond to those kind of comments, sorry but that how i feels.


What the hell? Annoyance is not some mythical negative emotion. What the hell do they teach you people in Denmark? They throw out basic biology and neuroscience and instead teach some new age mysticism whilst claiming they are the least religious country? What complete garbage! What level? Oh, right... I'm not allowed to defend myself. That level right? The one you put me on by making false accusations and insult. Which is OK for you to do but not OK for anyone else.



posted on Jun, 27 2010 @ 03:06 PM
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reply to post by JokerzReality
 


I just want to point out something.

We have a variety of emotions for a variety of reasons. Emotions are neither bad, good, negative or positive.

Look up evidence for negative emotions. You'll find links ranging from "negative emotions enhance memory" to "mothers bottle feeding their babies feel negative emotions like guilt and worry".

In the case for mothers bottle feeding and feeling either guilt or worry, it's completely NATURAL. It isn't negative. They are having those emotional responses because their bodies are trying to tell them something. It isn't negative, it's a god damn good thing those emotional responses crop up from time to time. It's how the human body operates, it's how we make sense of our world it's how we communicate with each other.

Here is another lesson on emotions.

You annoy me. It's a response of frustration and in this case that frustration is instigated by your uneducated generalizations and false accusations. That which causes annoyance is termed as being a nuisance. Scientifically speaking, you are a nuisance in this case.

Do I consider my annoyance with you to be negative? No. That's a ridiculous claim that has no bearing. It's a natural emotional response and there is no reason to shun the emotion as if it's some ill perceived "negative thing".



posted on Jun, 27 2010 @ 03:34 PM
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reply to post by sirnex
 


Well, that's your opinion, which you are entitled to. I don't agree and your way of explaning yourself, seems like you arrogantly think everything you say is the absolutte truth, and your truth is one that i completely disagree with. That's it!!

By stating something as the absolutte truth is immature. However if you can admit, that the explaination wasn't inteded as to refelct the truth but instead your opinion i wouldn't see it as immature. Everything i say is my opinion based on my experiences through life, my own reaserch and my education.

I'm not trying to safe face, i have stated constantly through this discussion that my vocabulary was limited and that i can't get to my point without the right words, for which i do not know how to translate properly into a discussion i must admit. You seem very ignorant about how it is to discuss on another language than your own and make false assumption constantly about what i mean. That's why i tried to stop this discussion constantly, because it's leading nowhere when i can't defend myself properly, where you almost seem to take advantage of my handicap and ignorantly claim that it's all uneducated statements and that my english is fine when you know nothing of my situation. Come back when you have tried to argu in another language than your own and not being able to explain yourself properly, thank you!!



[edit on 27-6-2010 by JokerzReality]



posted on Jun, 27 2010 @ 03:37 PM
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People separate ideals too much. I believe in God and Evolution. Some people think about it way too much.



posted on Jun, 27 2010 @ 03:55 PM
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reply to post by JokerzReality
 



Well, that's your opinion, which you are entitled to. I don't agree and your way of explaning yourself, seems like you arrogantly think everything you say is the absolutte truth, and your truth is one that i completely disagree with. That's it!!


What the hell are you talking about?


By stating something as the absolutte truth is immature.


Where did I lay claim to anything being absolute truth?


However if you can admit, that the explaination wasn't inteded as to refelct the truth but instead your opinion i wouldn't see it as immature. Everything i say is my opinion based on my experiences through life, my own reaserch and my education.


Yet you couldn't be bothered to do a very basic search in which to verify what I was saying? Your education as you call it is extremely piss poor.


I'm not trying to safe face, i have stated constantly through this discussion that my vocabulary was limited and that i can't get to my point without the right word, for which i do not how translate properly into a discussion i must admit. You seem very ignorant about how it is to discuss on another language than your own and make false assumption constantly about what i mean.


Yes, I am ignorant of what it's like to discuss something in another language that is not my own. We've already gone over the whole language issue. I have even asked you what possible mistranslation might be occurring with such words as hostile and immature. You keep using the words, so how else am I to determine the true meaning if your going to attempt to save face and claim improper translation and language barrier whilst continuously making use of the words?


That's why i tried to stop this discussion constantly, because it's leading nowhere when i can't defend myself properly


Tried to stop? By continuously insulting me, making false accusations about me and my beliefs? By smearing Atheists in general whilst admitting to cherry picking this perceived problem?


where you almost seem to take advantage of my handicap and ignorantly claim that it's all uneducated statement and that my english is fine when you know nothing of my situation.


Take advantage? Are you for real? In no way whatsoever am I trying to take advantage of you, yet another false accusation. You just love slinging those around don't you?


Come back when you have tried to argu in another language than your own and not being able to explain yourself properly, thank you!!


Build a bridge, grow a pair, and get over it already. Your English and vocabulary is just fine, it's HOW you say thing's that is the problem. You can't sit there and freaking admit to being a hypocrite and then claim I'm insulting you for ousting you out as one. You can't sit there and pretend you see a problem with Atheists and then admit in your own words that you aren't talking about fundamentalists when you speak of religious people.

You've done nothing more than *create* that perceived problem. It doesn't exist in reality because you admit to not having all the facts straight and admit to be picking and choosing which groups/beliefs you want to consider in this perceived problem. You can't sit there and tell others that they don't have some ill perceived "authority" to talk to you the way you talk to them. Who the hell dispenses such so called authority? Did you file any paperwork or have any registration/licensing to talk down to others? Is that what you mean by authority and why you can but I can't?







 
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