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That's exactly what I'm doing, because it's illogical that something as vast, complex, and orderly as the universe would come into existence arbitrarily.
I'm more interested in why you think it's more reasonable to conclude that singularity and everything with it just happened arbitrarily, without any guidance. I find that highly illogical.
I wouldn't expect God to leave any strong evidence for His existence, because I think He wants us to use our brains.
It doesn't bother me like it does you that I don't have a snapshot of God surfing at His favorite beach.
How about this... what if God appeared before you this very second? Would you even trust in yourself enough to believe that you just saw God? No? Isn't that funny? But here you are whining about evidence...
Maybe one day you'll put away your childish definitions and ideas of God, and then you'll understand.
You're correct that religious people who demonize atheist in groups are way more hostile than an atheist ever could be. That was not my argument. I was really trying to point out your flaws without talking down to you, call your names, unintelligent, etc, where you obvious don't care about talking down to me. When you don't respect other people in a discussion, THAT'S immature, and that is what i see most atheist do HERE.
Of course i can't prevent if you get the feeling that i'm talking down to you, but at least i'm trying not to when making my point, where you obvious use it as some kind of a discussion tool. That i see as extremly immature, and you keep persisting at it.
I was just pointing out that atheist on discussion forums tend to act immature this way, NOT ALL, as i said a million times, but i see more atheist do this than i see believers do this. Of course both sides have their bad apples.
Don't you think i know how ignorant and dangerous religious people can be. I live in the country which got flag burned because of some stupid Muhammed picture.
And i don't know every gang member.
Although in Denmark i know most, we are not a highly populated country you know. Again, WE HAVE talked about God, i've talked about it with almost everybody i know, when they state they don't believe in him and how ridiculous it is to believe in him, i tend to think that they don't believe in him!! I was a gang member. Not anymore though. I know the mentallity, if you're sure you don't get caught by the police and don't believe in punishment from above(Which i don't either btw) and you're power hungry and want to get popular in you group and show you're are tuff to the girls, you screw other people, rob them, even kill them if you think you can get away with it, because killing means nothing if there is no punishment in the now and after.
Religions however justify their killings with their faith. that is just as dangerous. I have never defended religious people, only their belief, not what they choose to do with this belief and what they think can be justified with it. I see it as mostly an excuse because of hate, racism, power hunger, etc. I don't believe that any sane person would kill because of their religion, they use it as an excuse for other things!!
Also, i never said i didn't believe in God, just that i liked to point out the flaws in believing in God to a person who are blind in their faith.
You talk down to me, like you don't know any other way to convey yourself to a person with opposite opinion. That i would state as immature behavior. I know this is me talking down to you, but i really don't know any other way to convey this to you without pointing out the immature aproach you're using. It's not YOU, it's your aproach.
Uhhh, a contradiction for you to point out. You better do so, or else you don't prove how high your intelligence really is!! Sorry, couldn't help myself. It's funny how you keep pointing out where i have pointed out my own flaws. What is the point in doing that? I Know what my flaws is, did you just do that to make your argument seem stronger?
Also it seem as if you take every thing i say, out of context with the whole quote/answer thing, just so your argument outcome looks better or something. The things you respond to, i seem to have explained in another section of my post.
Anyway. This is off topic, so sorry to the OP. You can continue in proving my point about how hostile atheist are and take everything i say out of context, i will not respond further.
Originally posted by codeblast
Originally posted by Blaine91555
If I were to say to you such an experience is possible, how could you know if it is or not? Would not in the back your mind you have to honestly say to yourself, it is possible?
Now we seem to have a difference on the meaning of "evidence" and "proof" : ) I like to think of those words in the scientific sense.
So, no - if you told me you had some experience that "proved" to you god's existence or anything similarly unlikely, I'd say "that's anecdotal evidence -
Originally posted by intrepid
She's got a point. Those that don't believe in god are just as much in the "faith" field as anyone else. Sorry guys. I'll see you on the other side and we can talk then. If there is another side.
In other words you reserve the right to not defend your argument. I accept your right to not defend your argument as that is your right, but make note that refusal to defend your argument may be viewed by myself or others as admittance to my counter-argument or anyone else counter-argument as being valid in point to any argument you refuse to defend.
I should mention I was speaking in generalities. I was not accusing you of hate. That does not change the fact, there is in fact a faction of Atheists who do attack People of Faith in a hateful manner and no doubt some do hate.
As evidence, people who pretend a Nativity display somehow harms them. Those who sued and made it so I can't even keep a Bible in my own desk drawer to read on my own time. Those who burn down churches. Those who pretend a display of the Ten Commandments harms them personally. That is in fact hate directed at people who are doing nothing to them.
Of course one fact escaped here, even if all you say is true, if all of history upholds your personal beliefs, your knowledge of the Universe is infinitesimally small and almost entirely incomplete; as is every other human beings. You simply can not possibly know if there is a Creator. You have only seen or experienced a portion of this Universe comparable to a quark.
Well, the jealousy also points to a polytheistic spirit realm. There are other gods listed by name, angels and demons referred to by name, etc. ,and a requirement that one reject all the others and submit to YHWH. You must be atheistic in order to operate as a devoted christian.
And btw, i don't care what other people think.
Their personal and biased thoughts are their problem, not mine. I don't have the maturity level of a 3 year old where i need other people to validate my point or myself.
That's maybe why i'm so popular with my friends and with girls They wan't me you know because i just don't care what you or anybody else think. Besides the moderaters here, i don't wan't to get banned.
Just because you can't see and understand my reason for posting what i am doesn't mean that i don't have any other than "I'm full of myself" or "i argu for the skae of argument". It's not my fault your blind to my agenda. You strike me as a person who likes to listen to himself, but i wouldn't know of course!!
I wan't to help people. I love to help people. I tried to help here, also i offered some of my own personal opinions. But you attacked them in a way i see as extremly immature. I even pointed out that it was my ideas and it was me who couldn't see the logic behind most atheists argument. But you had to attack it like it was an personal attack on you, even after i tried to explain that i tried to see it from another point of view.
One thing i hate is getting talked down to for no reason, normally i ignore ignorant people like that, but for some reason i couldn't this time. That's why i started to make what seem like personal attacks on you. You assume that i argu for the sake of argument cause you probably do. I think you reflect your personallity onto me, but you can't read me my friend, i'm not like you.
I know i promised to not keep arguing, but just have to say this. I NEVER said i didn't believe in God, point to me where i did.
I have faith than none of the mythological Gods exist
Certainly not that you can't have morallity with atheism, neither did i in any of the other statements. I said that this was the mentallity in the gang world. Are you really so blind as to not accepting that people get killed because the killers don't believe in God? Of course atheist have morallity i never once said that.
It's like your strategy here is taking everything i say out of context and make it sound like something i didn't mean or you're just so unconsciously biased that you take out what you wan't in order to form an opinion that makes sense to YOU, cause you're narrow minded view of the world won't allow you any other possibilities.
I hope the best for you now. This argument has run it's curse. My limited english capabilities keeps me from making any good and strong argument, so i won't fuel this battle with even more negativity. I would want to help you, but you probably think you're better than me, that's probably why you see my original post as an attack on atheist, which it never was. I don't know though, this is my theory. I first attacked you when you talked down to me, but i'm getting tired of all of this negativity.
What about calling a truce?
Do you feel a strong desire to make an counter-argument, then feel free to do so. But i'm done, you created enough negative emotions in me.
My advise is not to create negative emotions in anybody. I don't like to do so, cause i don't have the authority over anybody, no matter what they said. Of course if you're talking down to me, i will react, but when not adressing me directly it's immature to claim that authority, in MY opinion
Originally posted by randyvs
I thought you we're an Atheist ! Now you're telling me there are Gods.
Could you please make up my mind.
You seem like a very angry and bitter little man.
You just like to argu, don't you?
Again with all you fancy words trying to talk around the point that you are in fact hostile towards me.
Maybe i am a hypocrite, never said i wasn't.
I made my first post just ramble a little, but also to point out what most atheist tends to do in THIS thread and on most internet forums i come across.
You have the right to defend yourself aswell as i do. But by defending yourself, you create negativity in yourself and others. Negative emotions are not really good for our body, unless it's the fight or flight respons and you are running from a tiger.
I actually talk down to anybody that seems to promote this behavior, it's just that atheist tend to do this more on internet forums. That's why you see me mention atheists all the time. I don't agree in religious fear mongering either and have also talked against that on this forum.
My original post was for all atheists, so maybe they could pick up on their own behavior and act differently and more mature when discussing with a believer. I really don't have a problem with atheists, just the way they sometimes act arrogantly and i hoped for people to start listen instead of instantly putting up their defence shield. It's like when you try to help a friend of mine, but he instantly think he needs to defend himself, because he has no flaws. It just happened that you were the one responding to my post by talking down to me, and then i got caught up in the web.
Actually your response proved my point best. It's also funny, i pointed out to a religious dude onj another thread that he was acting a little arrogant in his belief and maybe he should consider the other side of the argument and that his hostility towards atheist didn't help anybody. Right away i was deemed an atheist fundamentalist(if can even be that)
You are actually generalizing me(wrongly if i might ad) much more, than i generalize atheist. My only statement about atheists was that they seemed to be more hostile, HERE, on this entire forum or on the internet in general, than believers seem to be. Of course you have the religious fundamentalist, but they are not really what i talk about when i talk about believers(Hey come to think of it, maybe that's the cause of this whole misunderstanding)
Oh and btw. I think i studied hundreds of NDE account's. I have yet to hear an atheist who remained one after the experience. Well, i have only read some of the best documented cases. I haven't read every single one, so i'm not denying what you're saying, but would you point me towards an example, searched on google and couldn't find one.
Either i defend their believes or i don't? Hmm, i defend their belief in God and spirituallity nothing else. Want to know what my belief is look here:
I agree with what he says. But i don't believe because he says this but because my research resulted with the same conclusion.
I still think you're acting immature and i fail to see how you could have a happy life and live it to the fullist when you have this level of hostility towards something or someone.
I was trying to get atheists to understand that this sort of hostility won't do any good and that they shouldn't use or promote it. But hey, this is my opinion, my belief, i've seen alot of people live a happier life when they let go of this hostile desire. I would never get through to religious fundamentalist, but i thought i maybe could get through to some atheist.
Excited to see how you can turn this into yet another negative thing!!!
Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by JokerzReality
What in the hell does that have to do with anything? That's like me informing you of my personal life as if it had any bearing. I'm a married man with three kids, friends who matter and have had my fair share of threesomes. Not sure how comparing our personal lives amounts to anything though. Is that really what they teach as "intelligent" in Denmark?
OMG!!! I was joking, hence the smileys!! My whole point about all this, that people take this all to serious, including you i might ad. And the 3 year old remark wasn't towards you, but as an example of why caring about what other people think of is a immature trade. Sometimes there are good reasons to care, but this wasn't one, and caring without reason is are sign that one haven't evolved much since birth. Intelligence is NOT a sign of maturity.
I'm an expert in Danish language, and if you ever tried to study another language you would know that it gets easy to be misunderstood. Sometimes you use the wrong words, because it sometimes translates to word in your language, but have another meaning.
The immature and what i see as hostile behavior, is the name calling
your indirect suggestions that your better than me
and your belief is better and more valid than mine
your generalize my belief and when one need to defend oneself instead of just ignoring is also immature.
I'm not saying you don't have the right to defend yourself, i'm saying that by giving easy in to the desire and even defending the desire is immature.
Also i think people who arrogantly think they are right in any thing they says without even listening to other side but instead spending time to give the best counter-argument, is also extremly immature. AGAIN FOR THE LAST TIME. THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE.
The negative emotion is not some made up BS.
If one keep hanging oneself in defending oneself and one's belief while talking down to other people, one are forgetting to see it from their point of view and one actually understand other people much less than one probably think one do.
And the negative emotion is something i've seen on the danish science channel and also on Discovery channel. i learned about it in school and alot of succesfull people, like Will Smith, Anthony Robbins, Steven Spielberg, Donald Trump, Neil Natura promote thinking positive to get what you wan't in life.
Also i've seen many people get well after serious illness while negative people tend to die more fast, like the placebo effect. Being negative destroy your body, and by focussing on unconstructive things, like why you need to defend yourself instead of understanding other people point of view or just letting it go if you just can't accept other people opinions, you promote negativity in your body.
I'm probably not making the best case, cause as i said. i lack knowledge of the english vocabulary, so i'm having great difficulties.
The rest of your arguments seems like indirect insults, and as i said i won't accept what i see as immature and hostile behavior
i'm sorry, maybe hostile is the wrong word, but i wont respond to what seems like a indirect cheap shot on me.
Being annoyed is also a negative emotion, and your negative mindset shines through your comments, i would have to sink to your level if i should respond to those kind of comments, sorry but that how i feels.
Well, that's your opinion, which you are entitled to. I don't agree and your way of explaning yourself, seems like you arrogantly think everything you say is the absolutte truth, and your truth is one that i completely disagree with. That's it!!
By stating something as the absolutte truth is immature.
However if you can admit, that the explaination wasn't inteded as to refelct the truth but instead your opinion i wouldn't see it as immature. Everything i say is my opinion based on my experiences through life, my own reaserch and my education.
I'm not trying to safe face, i have stated constantly through this discussion that my vocabulary was limited and that i can't get to my point without the right word, for which i do not how translate properly into a discussion i must admit. You seem very ignorant about how it is to discuss on another language than your own and make false assumption constantly about what i mean.
That's why i tried to stop this discussion constantly, because it's leading nowhere when i can't defend myself properly
where you almost seem to take advantage of my handicap and ignorantly claim that it's all uneducated statement and that my english is fine when you know nothing of my situation.
Come back when you have tried to argu in another language than your own and not being able to explain yourself properly, thank you!!