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Atheists and Dawkins Believe in God

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posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 10:04 PM
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reply to post by JokerzReality
 



since most intelligent answer i could get, is how unintelligent the Danish people is.


ROTFLMFAO!!!


Couldn't have said it better myself.



But no, i already knew the thing about Derren Brown.


That was directed towards you, not Darren Brown.


[edit on 1-7-2010 by sirnex]




posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 10:27 PM
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reply to post by JokerzReality
 



than a self-rightious atheist who won't accept the truth.


Accept what truth? That mentalists play upon the gullibility of others? I don't think I argued against that.



Sorry for the insult


If you consider that an insult then I'm sorry for you.



and that each individual atheist chooses his own moral


Yes, because it is woefully wrong to do unto others as you'd have them do unto you.


BAD BAD ATHEISTS!



The video to me showed that morallity is your own choice


WRONG! The video showed that morality is a system of check and balances that society ultimately agrees upon to varying degrees. What might be moral to one culture or system of belief is not inherently equally moral to another culture or system of belief.


secular atheistic versions of morallity was flawed at best


ATHEISM SAYS NOTHING ABOUT MORALITY. What part of that are you not understanding? Are you truly that dense? I ask in all seriousness as it's rather disturbing that you keep trying to pin morality issues upon something that just simply says no Gods exist.


which goes to show that the people who thinks that atheist are so flawless are wrong.


Let's stop pretending we're a pompous self righteous person huh? Allow me to correct your sentence.

"Which goes to show that people who think that PEOPLE are so flawless are wrong."

It has nothing to do with a a system of belief in that no gods exist.


You just don't get how it's like to write in a language so different from your own.


Then go to a Danish forum or quit whining, seriously.


No i mean picking apart my post, like this was a competition.


No competition here, you raise various points and I debate/argue against them. If you view this as a competition... Well... Just goes to show who you are.



posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 10:34 PM
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Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by JokerzReality
 

ATS has nothing to do with deleting anything unless your ISP went down your you as the user screwed up somewhere on accident.


It has nothing to do with my ISP, the second time. I tried to delete a sentence with backspace, and it automaticly deleted everything i have written and left the post window complete blank and ready for a new sets of letters. It didn't upgrade the page or anything. I pushed on backspace, like im doing now, which you of course can't see, and everything was gone, period.


And what those many other thing's is not paranormal.


OMG, have you thought this whole time that Derren Brown was using supposedly paranormal methods? He's not. He even comes of as someone who is trying to debunk the paranormal, by using a compination of NLP, misdirection, hypnoses, psychology and mentalism. None of which are remotely near being paranormal.


Phoenixbyrd@gmail.com Take a photo with your ATS user name one a piece of paper and have the "supermodel" hold a piece of paper with her name so I can verify who she is.


Simple really, unless your full of it.


You actually think i'm with a supermodel right now. Well, first off, they are not that easy to find, so going out to just pick one up is not that easy you know, Secondly i have a girlfriend now, and i don't think she would appriciate me going out to find a supermodel just have taken a picture with her. But seriously, it's NOT hard to pick up models. I have some sarge partners from America none the less, you could check up. This is nicknames, none really know their real names, like they don't know mine. Adam Lyons, Neill Natura, Mystery, Zan, Style(Neil Strauss), Anders Trycka, Aiden, Skills, Tyler Durden (No, not the one from Fight Club), and son on. Check up on what they do, and then tell me it can't be done by anybody. Mine commonly known nickname is Karisma.

I have pictures of me with supermodels however. I could write you their names, send you pictures of me with them and send you a picture with me infront of my ATS user name. How about that?


You do realize how idiotic that statement sounds right?


Maybe, but it's still true.


No, you tried to side step it..


How excatly?


Allow me to verify who I am then. My Facebook Page
You see how easy it is? Gee, it appear I am a 30 year old married man with three kids after all you little twit..


You're lucky man. I wan't to have kids myself someday, but my Gf isnt ready. I wonder what you're doing here then. Why not spending time with your kids, instead of spending time and energy to argu with an, according to you, ignorant Dane.


Being American has nothing to do with treating others how they ask to be treated. You certainly need a good smack of reality as somehow the Denmark education system has failed you miserably. Yet, I concede that you are possibly rebelling against the common secularist beliefs of the majority of the population leading you into a downward spiral of mysticism, spiritualism and other such superstitious beliefs.


Ok, so now i've asked to be treated like this? Or do you consider yourself an authority on that matter to make such an descision? I'm not really rebillion against anything. All my friends are basicly atheists, i would be to, if it wasn't for my expereince. I only became interested in mysticism and spiritualism because of my expereince, but calling it a downward spiral is far from true. I've actually made some changes in my life, i would nerver thought were possible, i expereince things constantly, that i never thought possible, plus people tell me i'm glowing with karismatic love(whatever that means)



posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 10:57 PM
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reply to post by JokerzReality
 



It has nothing to do with my ISP, the second time. I tried to delete a sentence with backspace, and it automaticly deleted everything i have written and left the post window complete blank and ready for a new sets of letters. It didn't upgrade the page or anything. I pushed on backspace, like im doing now, which you of course can't see, and everything was gone, period.


Sometimes hitting backspace can refresh the browser for some reason, at least it does for me from time to time, all I know is it wasn't anything to do with ATS.



OMG, have you thought this whole time that Derren Brown was using supposedly paranormal methods? He's not. He even comes of as someone who is trying to debunk the paranormal, by using a compination of NLP, misdirection, hypnoses, psychology and mentalism. None of which are remotely near being paranormal.


I think you might have to re-explain your fascination with something so mundane and un-extraordinarily then.



I have pictures of me with supermodels however. I could write you their names, send you pictures of me with them and send you a picture with me infront of my ATS user name. How about that?


That would work, so get to it.



Maybe, but it's still true.


Do you realize that statement is more stupid than the first?



You're lucky man. I wan't to have kids myself someday, but my Gf isnt ready. I wonder what you're doing here then. Why not spending time with your kids, instead of spending time and energy to argu with an, according to you, ignorant Dane.


My kids are in bed and my wife is on the other computer with my sister in law. Why aren't you with your GF? You've been up quiet a long time pretending your somehow better than everyone else. You've been ignoring her since what... at least 3am your time?



Ok, so now i've asked to be treated like this?


The minute you attacked Atheism with your uneducated BS is the minute you asked for Atheists to treat you as being uneducated in Atheism.


I'm not really rebillion against anything. All my friends are basicly atheists, i would be to, if it wasn't for my expereince. I only became interested in mysticism and spiritualism because of my expereince, but calling it a downward spiral is far from true. I've actually made some changes in my life, i would nerver thought were possible, i expereince things constantly, that i never thought possible, plus people tell me i'm glowing with karismatic love(whatever that means)


If you need a crutch to make a change in your life then you are simply pathetic. Sorry, but that's the absolute truth.



posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 10:58 PM
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reply to post by JokerzReality
 



You actually think i'm with a supermodel right now.

...

Secondly i have a girlfriend now, and i don't think she would appriciate me going out to find a supermodel just have taken a picture with her.


Show her this post if she can speak English. I think she would be equally pissed with you for even saying that.



posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 11:00 PM
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reply to post by sirnex
 


I've just realised something. You don't argu point by point. You cherry pick sentences from my post, where i either have made an mistake or you pick my arguemnts, which are easy to misunderstand.

You explained it best about what the video is about. I can almost understand every word. But when it's not normal for me, it's hard to find the word, that describe it best. I've tries, with what my mind had storaged, and failed. But i did understand what is was about. You just ignored the whole part where i pointed out, that i couldn't convey the words properly.

This is no debate. This is you cherry picking my weak points, not reconizing my strong ones, or my attempts to explain those same weak point in same post. Just because i'm no atheist and not excatly an english proffesor, you find it hillarious to cherry pick mistakes and ignoring those things you can't argu with.

I said it before, and i say it again. I'm not done debating on this thread, but i am done "debating" with you. And btw, 30 years old, is hardly an age were you could feel the effects of negative thinking, so no, you do not go against my claim.



posted on Jul, 1 2010 @ 11:09 PM
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reply to post by JokerzReality
 



You explained it best about what the video is about. I can almost understand every word. But when it's not normal for me, it's hard to find the word, that describe it best. I've tries, with what my mind had storaged, and failed. But i did understand what is was about. You just ignored the whole part where i pointed out, that i couldn't convey the words properly.


Yea Yea... Big bad language barrier made you say something totally different from what I pointed out despite what the big bad language barrier made you say meaning something not even close to what I said despite my using very simple small English words that you've used already.


Just because i'm no atheist


Please ... I am not picking on you because your not an Atheist, I really could give two feces what you believe. I pick on you because your full of it and your woefully uneducated on Atheism and keep propagating utter BS about it. You have this skewed sense of reality that Atheism is somehow this big bad immoral bunch of people who kill others thinking we're getting away with it because we think to ourselves that we can because God doesn't exist.

You have no lick of understanding as to what Atheism is or how morality works. Your a complete joke to the Denmark education system and to all free thinking humans.

Sorry... All free thinking intelligent humans.


but i am done "debating" with you.


You've also said that before too. Now your just lying.


And btw, 30 years old, is hardly an age were you could feel the effects of negative thinking, so no, you do not go against my claim.


Yea? How old are you and your friends if you don't mind my asking and can you please verify that claim whilst making it.



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 10:43 AM
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Im an athiest and i dont believe in any form of diety so the OP is wrong.

The topic of can you prove or disprove god is beyond stupid. Anyone with even an elementary education can understand why.

What would be beneficial however, is to debate why you believe in your choice of god, and why someone else might not.



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 11:49 AM
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Originally posted by awake_and_aware

Originally posted by technical difficulties

Originally posted by darkbake
No one can prove that God doesn't exist.
No one can prove that the following does not exist: Ghosts, Goblins, Fairies, Trolls, Dwarves, Giants, Unicorns, Dragons, Wizards, Demons, Angels, Greys, Reptilians, MIB, Other Gods, and so on. If you can apply this argument to every ridiculous belief out there, it's not a good argument. Also, it's a logical fallacy.

EDIT: Yeah, I didn't read the rest of the page before making this post.

[edit on 28-6-2010 by technical difficulties]


Great Point, or the fact that theres many Gods, if The one true "god" should subcribe to only 1 religion, then you should expect damnation as a matter of chance....

If God believes you should live by Islam, and you have been eating ham all your life - You're going to hell. If god wishes you only to have one wife, but you're a morman and you have 5, you're going to hell.

Are you religious people not worried that your scriptures adequately conveys God's wishes? How do you know? Can you know? Can you get real some time?

Religious people still fail to see the logic in that, they are so convinced "their" religion is right.

How myopic, how narrow-minded, how gullable, how illogical, how ignorant.
And not only that; some of them think that the universe needed a creator, yet think that their creator doesn't need a creator themselves. They claim that we have humans don't understand the concept of infinity, not realizing that human includes them as well, so are they admitting they believe in something they don't even understand, or are they saying they're only human to a certain degree?

Now usually I hate famous quotes, but I really think this quote by Stephen Roberts drives the point home:

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."

[edit on 2-7-2010 by technical difficulties]



posted on Jul, 2 2010 @ 10:01 PM
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You have faith in the laws of physics. It might seem as though a law does not require us to have faith in it, but only to have knowledge about it. But the faith we put into the law is not for the law, but it is for ourselves. Having faith in something puts us in a state of confidence. That state does not come about by pure knowledge, but it comes about by having faith. The difference between having knowledge and having faith is in the state of being. One puts us in a neutral state while the other puts us in a directed position.

Everything works by faith or belief. Reason is itself a matter of faith. It is an act of faith to assert that our thoughts have any relation to reality at all. You cannot see the direct connection between your thoughts and reality, but you can the correspondence between the two. The perceived connection and the reason for it that is accepted is still a kind of faith. How do you know that what you see is not itself an illusion or a simulation? Therefore truth can never be seen directly because it is invisible and hidden.

If your thoughts determine why you don’t believe in a God and when your thoughts don’t have anything to do with reality, your reasons for not believing in a God is an act of faith. Atheism in itself might not be faith, but your reasons for being an atheist is taken on faith. Like reasons for believing or not believing in unicorns, is also an act of faith.

Well, this is how I see it. If you disagree, could you please explain to me why this isn’t the case. I appriciate a mature and intelligent answer. Not some immature and hostile ridicule, where the person really don’t know what they are talking about. Thank you!!!

I'm using the word hostile because as far as i can see and understand from these sites, hostile means unfriendly or showing enmity or ill will, which was precisely what i saw some Atheist do towards believers here and i wouldn't exactly call ridicule and talking down to someone friendly. The only thing uneducated in me using the word hostile then, would be my failed understanding of the english langauge and by that i mean these dictionaries and their true meaning which i could have misunderstood:

Freedictionary
Some might call this a link

Edit: For Sirnex and no one else:
If you're reading this sirnex. Feel free to comment on this, but wasn't lying when saying i'm not debating with you again, so don't expect an asnwer, i seriously see you as a waste of time, you don't seem to know how to make a constructive debate, but seem more focused on getting your point across and make your opponent look bad, than actually understanding your opponent and proving your argument. Oh and i'm currently located in Thailand and not with my GF right now, so you're 03.00 am timing was way off and no she wouldn't care about me saying that, cause she know what i'm all about and respects who i am, i wouldn't choose some petty and jealous girl who wouldn't accept that i have many female friends and that i have a past with a couple of beatiful women. That makes me less likely to cheat on her, because i've tried what i wan't, i KNOW i can get the women i desire, so if a gorgeous female offered herself to me, i would have no problem in refusing her because of my relationship. I've never let a woman dictate my life. Maybe you have a skill in ridiculing others and in discussing(Not what i value most in my life), but i take comfort in that you will probably be a chode and Afc(Average frustrated chump)(Not new age phrases, just so you know) the rest of your life, judging from your facebook profil (Not bad things, just a kind of ignorance and failure in self improvement, understanding of women, female and male psychology, social intelligence, social dynamiks, NLP, social networking and the unconscious mind combined) Never needed a crutch, the changes there were unrelatd to self...

[edit on 3-7-2010 by JokerzReality]



posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 04:22 AM
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[continued, Still only to sirnex)...improvement, but more like changes in belief, intuition, awareness of nature and the spiritual dimension and in understanding and loving of people in a whole new way, because when you feel the impact you had on another human being, you tend to be more careful of who you insult and what you say to who. Leave them better than you found them. And i don't consider people who needs a crutch to change pathetic, that's far from any absolutte truth it's a little sad yea, but some people just don't know how to change, it's not their fault that nobody has taught them. Judging people who needs a crutch and calling your statements and opinions the absolut truth, is however very pathetic and sad not to mention extremly ignorant.

I admit to being a hypocrite in my example of when a religious person rings on my door bell, which was the whole point in that example, that i'm not better than you and i know it, because i do it myself, or i did it myself, i just reconize i'm wrong where you do not. I'm also a hypocrite when entering this discussion and talking about how pointless this discussion is. However how can one not be a hypocrite when discussing how pointless discussing is, you can't point it out, without being a little of a hypocrite. Also i couldn't resist pointing out why i'm convinced athiests have faith, not why atheism is faith. I'm however not a bigot. Me claiming that atheist have faith or that the atheist here seems to be more hostile than believers(Again look at my links for justification of using the word hostile) is not intolerant and irrational. It's a pattern i saw and pointed out, which had nothing to do with a bias i could be having. How can i not tolerate atheists, when all my friends are atheists? I've would actually think it would be more accurate to accuse you of bigotry towards me.

Please feel free to cherry pick arguments here and which to avoid, i know you will. I'm done discussing with you, you bring nothing but negative energy to the table. My last response to you will be in a form of an email when i get home to Denmark where some jaw dropping will probably occur
Don't get me wrong, i love debating on this forum, and even getting good money to be in a foreign country, and have time to debate when working on my scripts and note's of the previous day aswell (Not sure about the english term for with i'm working on is called) However, i do not appriciate negative and ignorant peoplem which promotes hostility or in a better word, unfriendliness. I try to give constructive criticism, where you might disagree, but could also learn something. How is calling someone a joke or a bigoted hypocrite constructive i wonder?

I could send you my facebook profile, but how could that verify the age of my friends, when first off i have over 1.500 facebook friends, with all different kind of ages from 18 to 70 and secondly, not all of my friends is on facebook? For all you know, i could just pick and choose from those friends...

Also, can you even be a hypocrite if you admit to it?

[edit on 3-7-2010 by JokerzReality]



posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 10:25 AM
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reply to post by JokerzReality
 



You have faith in the laws of physics.



You have faith in the laws of physics.


Faith is belief without evidence. Now that we have that basic understanding we can correctly determine that believing thing's like gravity exists is not a faith based belief. We deal with gravity every moment of our lives. We have direct evidence by letting go of something in midair and watching it fall to the ground.

Unless your talking about the various explanations behind gravity? hearing, learning, knowing about various explanations does not require one to believe any of those explanations are accurate, so again we don't need faith. Science deals with evidences, not with beliefs that lack evidences. So next time, please make that distinction before making such an uneducated reply.



How do you know that what you see is not itself an illusion or a simulation?


Perhaps you didn't pay attention when they taught biology in Denmark school. What we see is indeed a simulated experience of reality outside our five senses. Nor is it the only perceived perception of reality. Our brain interprets what our languages call the visible spectrum whereas other species on this planet see only the infrared spectrum or some see visible along with ultraviolet, etc.

No one argues that our brain does not interpret the signals it receives from the five senses. Go learn some biology and quit being a narcissist.


Therefore truth can never be seen directly because it is invisible and hidden.


This is where I view the narcissism coming from. What truth are you referring to? What truth is hidden from us? Who or what is hiding this so called truth? We biologically as humans only have our five senses in which to perceive the world around us, but we also have instruments that show a wider range of frequencies that we do not readily perceive. This is not a hidden thing at all.


If your thoughts determine why you don’t believe in a God and when your thoughts don’t have anything to do with reality, your reasons for not believing in a God is an act of faith. Atheism in itself might not be faith, but your reasons for being an atheist is taken on faith. Like reasons for believing or not believing in unicorns, is also an act of faith.


Your naivety is amazing, it really is. Despite being told that I do not believe in anything without evidence in which to believe in it, you still wish to relegate the lack of evidence being the causation of my disbelief as a matter of faith. Again, faith is belief in something without evidence for that something, like unicorns or god.


but wasn't lying when saying i'm not debating with you again, so don't expect an asnwer


Yet this is another reply. You doo the math.



i seriously see you as a waste of time,


Yet you waste the time replying to me anyways. It appears I'm not *that much* of a waste.


you don't seem to know how to make a constructive debate, but seem more focused on getting your point across and make your opponent look bad, than actually understanding your opponent and proving your argument.


I'm sorry, but a debate is about proving your argument to be more true than the others argument. Please learn what a debate is my friend.


but i take comfort in that you will probably be a chode and Afc(Average frustrated chump)


Cute, you assume success is a measure of wealth and that a measure of wealth is a measure of income and material possessions. What you may perceive as an average chump I perceive as very wealthy and successful man choosing to live with less, making less impact on the environment, waiting to take away what others would have tossed in the trash, etc.

Where you see frustration, I see peace.


I have a wonderful life, with a wonderful family. I get everything I own either cheap or free and used. I wear name brand clothing, I own a 50 inch screen tv which someone just tossed out in working order because they got a newer model. Where you work hard for your things, I hardly work.


You leave your girl to go on trips to Thailand, I've gotten to stay home for the last year and half with my wife and children being there for them. So tell me more about how you perceive me to be an average chump. From my point of view, you are the average chump playing the consumerist game. Yo work hard for your things, you have to be away from home etc.


Success is a matter of perception my friend and from my point of view, I'm much more successful than you.



Never needed a crutch, the changes there were unrelatd to self improvement, but more like changes in belief, intuition, awareness of nature and the spiritual dimension and in understanding and loving of people in a whole new way, because when you feel the impact you had on another human being, you tend to be more careful of who you insult and what you say to who.


Ah, so I have to be more spiritual to care for others? I've helped many people before and I still do now, all without having to be spiritual and most not even being related to me or people I even know.


You claim to be more careful of who you insult and yet you insult greatly without any care. Your a fake, a joke and an utter hypocrite to your own words.


I don't claim to be anything I'm not and I openly admit to be talking down to you, for attacking your uneducated beliefs and false accusations. You pretend to be better whilst acting less.


Leave them better than you found them.


By being insulting? Do you normally insult without acknowledging that you are insulting?


And i don't consider people who needs a crutch to change pathetic, that's far from any absolutte truth it's a little sad yea, but some people just don't know how to change, it's not their fault that nobody has taught them.


Who are you to judge whether someone needs to change or not? Would you rather the entire human species conforms to one belief, one social norm, one acceptable behavior etc? Your simply too judgmental if you think someone else needs to change. People are who people are and they are unique because of who they are. Value that uniqueness.


Judging people who needs a crutch and calling your statements and opinions the absolut truth, is however very pathetic and sad not to mention extremly ignorant.


I judge the need for a crutch to make a change because it takes away the human experience. When someone makes a change because they suddenly believe in god, they aren't changing because they want to change, they're changing because of some ill perceived god. God is your crutch.

Nor did I ever once claim that what I've said was absolute truth. So, let's please acknowledge who is being the pathetic ignorant one.



i just reconize i'm wrong where you do not.


Really? Where have I made it apparent that I don't think I'm wrong for doing what you hypocritically bitch about me doing? I've never said anything about talking down as not being wrong. I know it can make others feel less of themselves, but sometimes others need that slap of reality.



However how can one not be a hypocrite when discussing how pointless discussing is, you can't point it out, without being a little of a hypocrite.


I pointed out that you considered this a pointless discussion whilst continuing the discussion. I never said it was a pointless discussion as I don't feel any discussion to be pointless.



How is calling someone a joke or a bigoted hypocrite constructive i wonder?


If you don't wish to be perceived as such, then change your ways.



posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Conclusion
reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 





Just because something is created does not mean it requires a "creator",


LMAO!!


Please explain that part to me.


For example, mountains could be created by the actions of plate tectonics: doesn't require a "creator". A crevasse could be created in the earth as a result of an earthquake: doesn't require a "creator".

It's amazing that this must be pointed out to you.


The definition of your example might best be performed in a question.
ie What is a happening. The mountains would become a happening do to
the creation of the Earth. Rocks are formed by the earth , not created by God or the earth. They are a result, therefore a happening.
So by that the Mountains would be a happening. Nothing created them they just happened. Yet the Creator could call them his creation at his own perogetive.



posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 09:38 PM
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reply to post by sirnex
 




Faith is belief without evidence
.

Faith is the confident belief or trust in the truth or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing. The word "faith" can refer to a religion itself or to religion in general.

As with "trust", faith involves a concept of future events or outcomes, and is used conversely for a belief "not resting on logical proof or material evidence." Informal usage of the word "faith" can be quite broad, and may be used in place of "trust" or "belief."

WIKI

If I’m not misunderstanding this wiki quote. Faith is confident belief in a idea for example. The scientific method is an idea. Logical thinking and reasoning is ideas created by man to give what he persieves as the most accurate and true explanation of a phenomenon.

The word faith is mostly used for a belief not resting on logical proof or material evidence. But the meaning is quite broad if I’m not misunderstanding wiki and can be used in place of “trust” or “belief”. And don’t you trust the scientific method and logical thinking to be the best and most accurate methods of discovering truths? How do you know that simple faith in the findings discovered with these methods isn’t the reason why they were able to predict certain phenomenon and invent certain technologies and that the one with the strongest belief in his/hers reality materialise the certain outcomes of a studie and then when going through double and triple blinded tests, the theory which most of the scientists who do these tests, uncounsciously agree with, is the theory they end up proving. Because there could be some collective unciounscious mind which impact the reality we persieve and enteract with, without us knowing.
And how do we know that we don’t put into findings of fossils, what we want to put into them. That there isn’t a more logical explanation, just one that hadn’t been thought of yet?



We have direct evidence by letting go of something in midair and watching it fall to the ground.


This is not direct evidence, that gravity is not a simulated illusion of the mind.
You have faith that gravity is not an simulated illusion of the mind if you want to call it direct evidence. Where is your evidence that it’s not a simulated illusion? Like rules inside a video game.



Unless your talking about the various explanations behind gravity? hearing, learning, knowing about various explanations does not require one to believe any of those explanations are accurate, so again we don't need faith. Science deals with evidences, not with beliefs that lack evidences. So next time, please make that distinction before making such an uneducated reply.


Science deals with what they perceive as evidences for the laws of the materiel world. I saw a BBC documentary once. A female scientist had found overwhelming evidence for Homeopathy, the theory that waters remembers what has been dissolved in it, even after dilution beyond the point where no molecule of the original substances could remain. The BBC put it through these double-blinded studies and found that almost half the scientists found evidence for it, where the other half found evidence against it. They concluded that the half that found evidence for it was random coincidence.....



posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 09:44 PM
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reply to post by sirnex
 

.....And one time on the myth busters, they did a test on a plant, where they tried to determine if the plant could feel your emotions or understand you thoughts or something. They hooked it up to a device which should monitor the plants state and then the guy began to think ill will towards the plant, they got a surprising swing on the monitor like the plant could feel the guys intentions towards the plant, and they stood there in disbelief. After talking back and forth about how they didn’t believe it and that it must have been a random coincidence, the plant didn’t show anymore responses from them.



Perhaps you didn't pay attention when they taught biology in Denmark school. What we see is indeed a simulated experience of reality outside our five senses. Nor is it the only perceived perception of reality. Our brain interprets what our languages call the visible spectrum whereas other species on this planet see only the infrared spectrum or some see visible along with ultraviolet, etc.


Perhaps you don’t realise that the biology they teach in school and anywhere else for that matter, are mostly theories based on certain facts. I know our brain probably interprets everything our five senses perceive, including findings of facts and study results. Maybe scientists don’t take all factors into account, when study an animal. Have you ever seen directly through a Dogs or a Bats eyes with it's consciousness and brain interpreting what it percieves? if you hadn’t, then how do you know with 100 % certainty that the theories aren’t wrong? There could be material in the bats eyes for example, which our brain or any other human invented instrument can’t detect. They don’t consider this when they study the animal or what?

I have learned the theories of biology, that doesn’t mean I consider them as the absolute truth.



This is where I view the narcissism coming from. What truth are you referring to? What truth is hidden from us? Who or what is hiding this so called truth? We biologically as humans only have our five senses in which to perceive the world around us, but we also have instruments that show a wider range of frequencies that we do not readily perceive. This is not a hidden thing at all
.

These instruments are man made. They can detect certain frequencies, but who’s to say they can detect all. I don’t think it’s narcissistic at all to point out, that the truth is hidden. It is hidden in the sense that we can't be sure our instruments can perceive all phenomenon out there or that our five senses interpretation of the results the instruments are given us are correct.



posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 09:50 PM
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reply to post by sirnex
 



Your naivety is amazing, it really is. Despite being told that I do not believe in anything without evidence in which to believe in it, you still wish to relegate the lack of evidence being the causation of my disbelief as a matter of faith. Again, faith is belief in something without evidence for that something, like unicorns or god
.

Or what YOU consider lack of evidence. Is it naive to suggest that your reasons for not believing in God is based on faith? Meaning that you trust in the evidence science has put forth and you trust that there is no evidence, even though you could be unconsciously rejecting this evidence without you knowing. Your faith is in the trust you seem to put forth about there not being any evidence, where there could be plenty, you’re just blind to it, because of your disbelief. I don’t say Atheism is faith here. I say atheists HAVE faith, be it in the scientific method, their education, the way they perceive the world and the people around them or their belief that there doesn’t exist any evidence, where they either could be blind to it because it just has been given a more scientific explanation or we just hadn’t found it yet. Atheism in itself is not faith, but your trust in the logical explanation of evidence is.



Yet you waste the time replying to me anyways. It appears I'm not *that much* of a waste.


Oh yes, I perceive you as a serious waste of my time. I just can’t resist wasting my time on what I see as answering your ignorant remarks.



I'm sorry, but a debate is about proving your argument to be more true than the others argument. Please learn what a debate is my friend.


Yet, you don’t seem to want to prove your argument to be more, true than mine. You seem to be more interested in making me look bad, by calling me a bigoted hypocrite, pathetic and a joke.



Cute, you assume success is a measure of wealth and that a measure of wealth is a measure of income and material possessions. What you may perceive as an average chump I perceive as very wealthy and successful man choosing to live with less, making less impact on the environment, waiting to take away what others would have tossed in the trash, etc
.

HAHA!! You’re response to the me accusing you of being a chode and Afc, is hilarious. Neither of the two is related to measure of income or material possessions, but related to ignorance about the psychological traits I mentioned, again look at my previous post. I even think that the notion about material possessions being a sign of success is an American thing or a youth thing. However I applaud and respect your way of life very much. It’s just your ignorance about the psychological traits I wanted to make a little fun with.

I do have wealthy success, but material possessions is not my view of success. Being wealthy enough so you don’t have to worry about bills and stuff and do what I want, having the skills to expand your social circle like you see fit, don’t be afraid of pushing yourself or anything else for that matter, having the power to help people the best way possible, not being controlled by anything or anyone, having discipline enough to do what you want, no fear of being alone, having family and friends who loves you unconditionally, having the skill, charisma and confidence to make anybody like you but still don’t care about what other people think of you and LOVING your work. That I see as success.



posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 09:58 PM
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reply to post by sirnex
 




I have a wonderful life, with a wonderful family. I get everything I own either cheap or free and used. I wear name brand clothing, I own a 50 inch screen tv which someone just tossed out in working order because they got a newer model. Where you work hard for your things, I hardly work.


I don’t own a TV, I've thrown mine out. It does me no good, I can follow the news on the internet or in the papers. I don’t need to follow any shows and stuff. I think that stuff keeps me lazy and harder to evolve. I actually don’t work that hard. I have A LOT of freedom in my work, and I don’t work for anything other than love for doing what I do, i'm just lucky it pays well.



You leave your girl to go on trips to Thailand, I've gotten to stay home for the last year and half with my wife and children being there for them. So tell me more about how you perceive me to be an average chump. From my point of view, you are the average chump playing the consumerist game. Yo work hard for your things, you have to be away from home etc.


Well, I travel a lot, most times my GF is with me. We LOVE to travel and meeting new and interesting people and I usually take her with me when I got bootcamps and seminars in other countries. This time, my GF is in Turkey with some of her friends. If you can’t be apart from each other for at least two weeks, then I don’t think your relationship has any future. I don’t HAVE TO be away from home, it’s self chosen because of love for what I do. I guess if I had children, I wouldn’t travel that much, but for now, I have the freedom to do what I want.



Success is a matter of perception my friend and from my point of view, I'm much more successful than you.


I don’t agree, that your more successful than me, but i do agree that it’s a matter of perception. However your being a chode and Afc, has nothing to do with your success in life but your ignorance of certain things. There are very specific reasons i judged that from you facebook profile, which i feel is extremly hard to explain without wrting a entire novel.


Ah, so I have to be more spiritual to care for others? I've helped many people before and I still do now, all without having to be spiritual and most not even being related to me or people I even know.

You claim to be more careful of who you insult and yet you insult greatly without any care. Your a fake, a joke and an utter hypocrite to your own words.

I don't claim to be anything I'm not and I openly admit to be talking down to you, for attacking your uneducated beliefs and false accusations. You pretend to be better whilst acting less.
By being insulting? Do you normally insult without acknowledging that you are insulting?


Where did I say that? You helping or caring for people you don’t know, has nothing do with you feeling unconditional love for random people on the street.

I am careful of who I insult. You have made it perfectly clear, that you can take it, when throwing around insult yourself. I even tried to apologize to what I could perceive as possible insults where you stated you feel sorry for me, if I perceived them as insults. I always acknowledge that what I say could be insulting. I can’t leave a narrow minded individual better than I found him, especially not when insulting him at the same time. Also, normally I don’t discuss with people, because they all seem to accept what I’m saying as a possible truth, and vice versa. The big bad language barrier, do makes things harder to explain I think.



posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 10:11 PM
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reply to post by sirnex
 



Who are you to judge whether someone needs to change or not? Would you rather the entire human species conforms to one belief, one social norm, one acceptable behavior etc? Your simply too judgmental if you think someone else needs to change. People are who people are and they are unique because of who they are. Value that uniqueness.


I can’t help but to judge people who seem miserable with something or everything in their life and yet they seem to be unable to change anything about themselves which I know from personal experience and seeing 1000 of people doing the same, works, if you put an effort into it and at least consider what other happy people, who been in the same spot as them, have to say.

I value uniqueness more than you could ever realise. You seem to misunderstand. I don’t care about their personal religion and personal beliefs when they come to me. Acceptable behaviour and social norm is yours to form. By learning to be your best self and be the Alpha male, you decide what the social norm is in your environment. Of course don’t break the rules of the country your in, just own your environment.


I judge the need for a crutch to make a change because it takes away the human experience. When someone makes a change because they suddenly believe in god, they aren't changing because they want to change, they're changing because of some ill perceived god. God is your crutch.


Oh, so now the belief in a god, isn’t a human expereince? Most people, who aren’t brainwashed by some religion, that I know of, who suddenly believe in God, change because they WANT to change, they are just to ignorant about their own powers, that they place they credit on God. I don’t judge what people use as tools to change. I’ve used knowledge on some psychological traits to form me into the man I WANT to be, and I’m far from finished. I still learn myself. As long as you don’t change BECAUSE some God said you should.



Nor did I ever once claim that what I've said was absolute truth. So, let's please acknowledge who is being the pathetic ignorant one.


“If you need a crutch to make a change in your life then you are simply pathetic. Sorry, but that's the absolute truth.”

Then I guess the above quote wasn’t written by you. So, yes lets acknowledge than your the pathetic ignorant one. You said that needing a crutch was simply pathetic, then suggesting that what you previously stated was the absolute truth. Am I misunderstanding something here? It doesn’t matter if it’s sarcasm and you didn’t really mean it, you still claimed it to be. And how am I going to spot your sarcasm without seeing your face?


Really? Where have I made it apparent that I don't think I'm wrong for doing what you hypocritically bitch about me doing? I've never said anything about talking down as not being wrong. I know it can make others feel less of themselves, but sometimes others need that slap of reality.


And how come your the judge and authority to when others need that slap of your percieved version of reality? You know nothing more about what reality actually is, than any other human being. So when you’re automatically take the authority to slap your perceived version of reality into another human being without them asking for your help, I say you’re wrong. Like i am, when i take the authority over another human beings reality, without them asking me. By my refrences and feedback i have high confidence that the psychological theories i live by are pretty accurate. But i'm not going to state it's the absolute truth

But ok, since you know you’re wrong in making people thinking less of themselves I’m not going to ignorantly state that you don’t know you're wrong again, my appolegies.



posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 10:22 PM
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reply to post by sirnex
 



If you don't wish to be perceived as such, then change your ways.


That’s hardly constructive. Your perception of me is hardly an reflection of reality. Most things, people accuse other human beings to be, is a reflection of your own personallity traits, things which you had problems with in the past and have worked to change or things in yourself which you reconize in others, but don't admit to be in yourself, like when you ignorantly perceive me as a bigot. I was immature once and wrote almost just like you when i was, i reconize the pattern, which is why i accused you of being such. But that doesn't mean you are. Just that i reconize most of your opinions in myself, when i was a immature and ignorant dude, who didn't understand other people that much. When i didn't understand the underlying reason people have for being who they are.

If you accuse me of being a bigot and i'm not, then how is that constructive? How can I change something which I’m not? You call me a hypocrite, where I admit that I had to be a hypocrite, to point out that this discussion about creationism VS. evolution, Atheist VS. Theism, Believer VS. non-believer, is pointless, and will lead nowhere for the parties involved. It only helps the side which believes he is winning to feel better about him/herself and theirs intelligence while the other side leave with frustration and sometimes wishing ill will towards their “enemy”. This is not even close to be constructive discussion, which is why I perceive discussion on this subject to be pointless, because neither sides hardly learn something new, instead of understanding each other, they are mostly concentrated on winning the argument. Like us two now. But, hey this is my subjective opinion, and I could be wrong.

Now, i think i do practise what i preach. I've been from the same position you are now. I've learned somethings about human psychology and had and spiritual expereince, and i get you don't understand how i could from where you are to where i am. I admit, i don't know exactly where you are and what you have been through, but there were once upon a time where i used the exact same arguments you are using now about Atheism for example, but i now realise that these arguments(that i used) are a little ignorant, but it's a matter of understanding why, before i could talk with you about it really.

You can't talk to a man which has been blind from birth about colours either. he has to understand what you mean when using the words green, yellow, red, blue, pink, etc, in order for you two to have an reasonable discussion about them.

[edit on 3-7-2010 by JokerzReality]



posted on Jul, 3 2010 @ 10:28 PM
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reply to post by JokerzReality
 


[quote]I can’t help but to judge people who seem miserable with something or everything in their life and yet they seem to be unable to change anything about themselves which I know from personal experience and seeing 1000 of people doing the same, works, if you put an effort into it and at least consider what other happy people, who been in the same spot as them, have to say.


I have pride in who I am because I am who I am. Of course you think pride is negative, because you're a judgmental little prick.



I value uniqueness more than you could ever realise. You seem to misunderstand. I don’t care about their personal religion and personal beliefs when they come to me. Acceptable behaviour and social norm is yours to form. By learning to be your best self and be the Alpha male, you decide what the social norm is in your environment. Of course don’t break the rules of the country your in, just own your environment.


Your a complete moron. You claim top value uniqueness while being in a job where you change people. What a complete idiot you must be.



Oh, so now the belief in a god, isn’t a human expereince?


Unless you are attributing human emotions and traits to this god in a narcissistic fashion, then no, making a change towards this god in belief of this god is not a human experience.


who suddenly believe in God, change because they WANT to change


They suddenly believe in God and then want to change but it has nothing to do with the sudden belief in god? What are you, a moron? I ask in all seriousness.


I don’t judge what people use as tools to change. I’ve used knowledge on some psychological traits to form me into the man I WANT to be, and I’m far from finished. I still learn myself. As long as you don’t change BECAUSE some God said you should


It's just a crying shame that the man you want t be is not more intelligent and emotionally strong.


I mean come on, you have to at least be smart enough to know your full of sh*t.


Then I guess the above quote wasn’t written by you. So, yes lets acknowledge than your the pathetic ignorant one. You said that needing a crutch was simply pathetic, then suggesting that what you previously stated was the absolute truth. Am I misunderstanding something here? It doesn’t matter if it’s sarcasm and you didn’t really mean it, you still claimed it to be. And how am I going to spot your sarcasm without seeing your face?


No, your right... I did say that. My bad. I do indeed stand by that statement, even more so now that I've seen your pathetic little reply you half of a man you.



I say you’re wrong.


And I say your an idiot if you deny evidence as reality and instead accept fantasy without evidence as reality.



i have high confidence that the psychological theories i live by are pretty accurate.


If you mean accurate by your standards, then at least we know it's highly inaccurate compared to reality.



But ok, since you know you’re wrong in making people thinking less of themselves I’m not going to ignorantly state that you don’t know you're wrong again, my appolegies.


Apology accepted and it's a shame you couldn't be bothered to apologize for being a complete moron on many other fronts.


complete BS. You are indeed a bigoted hypocrite.



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